Propane vs Electric Appliances

I was going to go all propane but it looks like I may be renting a spot from a local town that includes an electric hook up at a flat price for the year.
 
Questions I have are:
 
1.) Can electric appliances keep up like propane...ie: fryer and griddle keeping up with high volumes ?
 
2.) If you were in my situation, would you go electric over propane ? (I am building from scratch so everything has to be installed still)
 
3.) If I went electric the current plug provided to me by the town is 110....would that have to be changed to 220v ? If I didn't go with electric appliances, would that outlet still have to be changed to 220 ?
Also, if anyone has any links for used restaurant appliances it would be appreciated...I have searched the internet but haven't found anyone with reasonable used prices...I also searched the forum to no avail.
thanks, 
           Schmelly
 
 
 

Schmelly


1.) Can electric appliances keep up like propane...ie: fryer and griddle keeping up with high volumes No never. It takes much longer for them to heat and recover from volume use.

2.) If you were in my situation, would you go electric over propane ? 
You can do which ever you want but you have to have some electric for lights.

3.) If I went electric the current plug provided to me by the town is 110....would that have to be changed to 220v ?If you have any use of electric at all you'll need 220 amp service. They haven't built a house in years that doesn't have 220 amp service
 
If I didn't go with electric appliances, would that outlet still have to be changed to 220 ?
 
It's not the outlets that need to be 220 (well some could) but normally it's the power coming into the breaker box that needs to be 220 amps. So you'll need to do some more research here on RF there have been numerous threads written and this subject covered from stem to stern. After you do that you'll be better prepared to ask the right questions, or you'll know enough to go one way or another.

Also, if anyone has any links for used restaurant appliances it would be appreciated...I have searched the internet but haven't found anyone with reasonable used prices. thanks,  Schmelly

 
1.) Can electric appliances keep up like propane...ie: fryer and griddle keeping up with high volumes No never. It takes much longer for them to heat and recover from volume use.

2.) If you were in my situation, would you go electric over propane ? 
You can do which ever you want but you have to have some electric for lights.

3.) If I went electric the current plug provided to me by the town is 110....would that have to be changed to 220v ?If you have any use of electric at all you'll need 220 amp service. They haven't built a house in years that doesn't have 220 amp service
 
If I didn't go with electric appliances, would that outlet still have to be changed to 220 ?
 
It's not the outlets that need to be 220 (well some could) but normally it's the power coming into the breaker box that needs to be 220 amps. So you'll need to do some more research here on RF there have been numerous threads written and this subject covered from stem to stern. After you do that you'll be better prepared to ask the right questions, or you'll know enough to go one way or another.

Also, if anyone has any links for used restaurant appliances it would be appreciated...I have searched the internet but haven't found anyone with reasonable used prices. thanks,  Schmelly
 
Try Ebay, and Craigslist.
Have you been in the food business before? If not maybe you need to go work some events for a vendor and find  out if you really like the business before you invest a ton of sweat, blood, and tears.
Good Luck

even if you went to propane for cooking  unless you get a gas steam table , gas fridge, and/or freezer what about a/c? hot water? spose all those could be propane too but if not your are prob. going to need a 220 line anyway's and if no propane steamer, fridge,, etc, prob. even have to go with a 50 amp box... i've got gas: fryer, grill, and, elec hot water, steam table, fridge, sandwich table, freezer, lights, a/c., micro wave. conveyor toaster, fan, bunn 2 burner coffee pot, over head fan,,,...in the a.m. with all on i use bout all the power i can get hold of

Schmelly

.....Also, if anyone has any links for used restaurant appliances it would be appreciated...I have searched the internet but haven't found anyone with reasonable used prices...I also searched the forum to no avail.
thanks, 
         Schmelly

 
 
I can't comment on the rest of it, but if you go used, it's more about waiting for the right piece of equipment to come to you. Everything you want will not be for sale used, when you want it, at the price you want it for, and in the condition you want it in. 

Bear in mind we have a small enclosed cart... Personally I would opt for propane over electric. If you have to provide your own electric (like with a generator) you will only to power things like lights (ours are 12vDC), fans (also 12vDC) and A/C unit. Rooftop 13.5K BTU RV units are 30 amp/120vAC and easily powered by a 3K generator. Our 6k BTU window A/C unit is 120vAC and David powers it from a regular duplex on the park's lights (street vending). If the power goes out, we lose only the A/C unit as everything else is propane or powered off our 12 volt battery.
 
As for used equipment.... We have bought most of our pans from used equipment stores, flea markets and yard sales wether we need it or not (I have a couple of iced tea dispensers that I picked up dirt cheap and don't know what to do with)... look in the phone directory for Restaurant equipment repair shops. Watch the auction outfits in your area. You might want to call them as ask if they have any restaurant equipment for sale. I know the auction outfit we were vending for has stuff stored and also knows of places that has stuff for sale... cheap. I bought our pour over coffeemaker (cheap) off of eBay and looked for months before I won it. Don't forget to figure in shipping when you are buying or bidding on something online.

Schmelly, I am in the process of converting my totally electric mobile kitchen to some electric and some propane.  I have only done festivals or special events in the past and will continue that way for a while.  Because of the major electrical requirements, Watts, volts, amperage and all that stuff, I was really hampered with which events could accommodate me and if I rented a commercial generator, that would eat into my profits, thus the conversion. 
 
However if you are going to be in the same place and connected to a pole, electric will be fine.   Not sure if you would really notice the recover time or not.  I didn't, but I had nothing to compare it to.  I have actually found that electrical used equipment to be less expensive than propane used equipment in my area.  Not sure why.
 
I wish you were close, I have plenty of electrical equipment I would be willing to sell to a fellow RFer.  I have not actually put anything up for sale simply because I am a horder and may one day need this stuff
 
 
 
 

I'm appreciating all your informative answers....thanks guys.....
 
Gil, if you were closer I would help you with your hording problem....
 
Can anyone here give me an idea how much propane I would go through on a weekly or monthly basis ? This was if I had a propane fryer, and a propane grill...open from about 6am to mid afternoon - Monday through Friday.

Schmelly
Can anyone here give me an idea how much propane I would go through on a weekly or monthly basis ? This was if I had a propane fryer, and a propane grill...open from about 6am to mid afternoon - Monday through Friday.

 
This thread will help:
 
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/tm.aspx?m=652748&high=math
 
Otherwise, the only specs are the max BTUs of equipment, and since all things will not be running full blast at all times, your best bet is to approximate and then find out if you're right. 

with my fryer and grill running from 7:30-4:00 6day's a week and from 1-7 on sundays, i have 2, 30 lb bottles i go thru 2 @ week

Keep the fryer and flat top grill gas. They are cheaper to run on gas and more reliable and quicker to recover. Gas appliances seem to last longer with less maintenance. Plus if power goes out you can still run them if they are electrically controlled.

Thanks for your continued responses....
 
What does anyone think of "Toastmaster" brand appliances?
 
I may have a line on a 4 burner 48" Toastmaster griddle.

This one?

There's not too much to go wrong on a gas grill.....
Just look for one that has a 3/4' plate. The thicker the grill, the more control you have on heat. A thin surface will have lots of hot spots.

thnx chef...no the grill is actually in a trailer that I might buy...it's a 4 burner....not sure which model or how many BTU's...I still have to find that out

I am still debating on propane vs electric for a deep fryer....
 
I guess I should have asked this way....
 
If you did not have to pay for electricity, would you choose an electric fryer over a propane fryer ? Or are propane fryers too good ?

We ran a small electric 220v table top fryer for a concession stand we once had. It did OK; it was a two basket and seemed to have a decent recovery time. We don’t fry in our trailer and most of our cooking apparatus is electric (Griddle, sandwich press, refrigeration, air, and etc). The major problem down the road with all electric units is if you decide to move. One of the major issues we have is getting enough amps to power our trailer. If we don’t run the air we generally can get by with a 25 amp power supply. We are looking at installing a propane griddle and a small propane single pan warmer. If you do decide to do something different like attending festivals more than likely you won’t have enough power for your trailer or be forced to ran off generators.

Schmelly


I am still debating on propane vs electric for a deep fryer....

I guess I should have asked this way....

If you did not have to pay for electricity, would you choose an electric fryer over a propane fryer ? Or are propane fryers too good ?

Electricity is power you are already paying for in the rent.    ... I guess, my question is, 'how big is the connection service?'      ... A 30 amp service is not likely to be able to power all your appliances.    You would need at least a 50 amp or more-likely a 100 amp service.
 
So after deducting the power for  lights, AC, refrig & freezer would there be enough to power the heavy use appliances? (fryer & griddle, ?)     If so you can save $$ on the LP.   I would run the lower use appliances on LP.     ... This is assuming your setup is on a semi-perm basses.   If you move later, you can buy a generator or LP appliance to replace the electric ones.   ... So which of you equipment will cost the least operating on LP; and which ones would save $$ to be electric?

I am in one spot 24/7, except for the occasional weekend gig, my power bill averages $75 month. Propane around $300.
All cooking is gas.

Chefbuba  .... Thanks,     That was my point in the above post.
schmelly indicated electrical power is included in the monthly rent.  So his question is of economics. where can he save the most by using electric equipment??? Or which appliances use the lest LP during the month?   Buying LP is an added expense for him over the electrical hookup.
... I'm not knocking LP gas or any of the other comments above ... it's economics of his situation.

JodyP


We ran a small electric 220v table top fryer for a concession stand we once had. It did OK; it was a two basket and seemed to have a decent recovery time. We don’t fry in our trailer and most of our cooking apparatus is electric (Griddle, sandwich press, refrigeration, air, and etc). The major problem down the road with all electric units is if you decide to move. One of the major issues we have is getting enough amps to power our trailer. If we don’t run the air we generally can get by with a 25 amp power supply. We are looking at installing a propane griddle and a small propane single pan warmer. If you do decide to do something different like attending festivals more than likely you won’t have enough power for your trailer or be forced to ran off generators.

Thanks for your reply Jody...I will take that into account.

edwmax

Schmelly


I am still debating on propane vs electric for a deep fryer....

I guess I should have asked this way....

If you did not have to pay for electricity, would you choose an electric fryer over a propane fryer ? Or are propane fryers too good ?

Electricity is power you are already paying for in the rent.    ... I guess, my question is, 'how big is the connection service?'      ... A 30 amp service is not likely to be able to power all your appliances.    You would need at least a 50 amp or more-likely a 100 amp service.

So after deducting the power for  lights, AC, refrig & freezer would there be enough to power the heavy use appliances? (fryer & griddle, ?)     If so you can save $$ on the LP.   I would run the lower use appliances on LP.     ... This is assuming your setup is on a semi-perm basses.   If you move later, you can buy a generator or LP appliance to replace the electric ones.   ... So which of you equipment will cost the least operating on LP; and which ones would save $$ to be electric?

Ed, Not sure what amp service it is....It's an electric panel that has 4 basic 3 prong outlets in it (like a regular house outlet)...Also looks like most of them are daisy chained - maybe 2 or 3 breakers for around 8 or 9 outlets.....I know they told me they could switch it out to 220v if need be......I will email the city guy and ask him....
 
We have a 4ft propane griddle that we will be running...It came with the trailer and is hooked up so we are going to use that......
Electric use will be:
6' Refrigerated Sandwich unit
14 to 16 cf freezer
10 gallon electric hot water heater (tag says 120 watts)
Space heater in the winter time
Microwave
Coffee Pot, and misc. stuff.
Possible smaller beverage fridge.
Possible A/C at some point
 
I guess I was just wondering how much I would save per month roughly...I'll be working around 40 to 45 hours per week....
 
Also, wanted to know if an electric fryer could keep up during rushes.....
 
 

 

Not sure if anyone is familiar with this electric fryer, or the Star brand of electric fryers....
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bfs/2567691524.html
here's more specs
http://www.acitydiscount.com/Star-Manufacturing-Star-Max-Counter-15lb-Single-Pot-Twin-Basket-Electric-Fryer-515D.0.28638.1.1.htm
    Or how about this one :
http://www.admiralcraft.com/product/df-12l2 This  one is also on CL for $300 - a year old and used for 2 months...I like the fact that there is separate oil for each basket. And the guy has only used one side of the fryer so the other side is brand new.
 
Also what does everyone do with the hot oil in the fryer at the end of the day ? (if you have to move your trailer/truck) Do I have someone custom weld a top on it ? 
Or do I let it cool and then drain it? If I have to let it cool then drain, seems like the above would be better because it only has 15 lbs of fryer oil.

I have a Cecilware twin 15lbs electric fryer (1800w x 2) and it's complete crap compared to the propane fryer I used to have.  I have to do around 80 orders of fries within about a 75 window and it struggles like hell to do it.
 
If you do use an electric fryer, I would recommend you get something no less than 5kw a side. The more powerful the better.  I have to run on single phase, so there are limitations with that.  There are some good fryers out there 25kw+ , but those use a 3 phase power.
 
The facility that I moved into doesn't have gas, and I hear it from my customers a lot complaining about the 15 minute wait.
 
When I had my propane fryer in my trailer, I had a custom stainless steel cover made for it. I would put that on, and could drive right off.
 
You key cooking components should be gas if you anticipate a good volume. If you are just cooking things on occassion, then electric could work for you.

Depends on your volume.
 
I have a friend with a snack shop. Her griddle uses very little propane so she's good there but the fryer uses a TON because of the constant, high, temperature. Its costing her $600 dollars a month! She switched to an electric fryer but it doesn't come close to keeping up is she has a rush. She ends up having to tell people that she is out of fries.
 
You might consider blanching the fries, off site, in a kitchen instead of tossing them into the fryer frozen. Then you only need to flash-fry to serve when you are in the trailer.

hmmm...thanks for the replies guys....I am still debating whether to go electric or propane....Tough call, especially considering I have no idea what type of volume I will have....I am going to be right in the center of the busy downtown area where I live...

Its not a tough call at all if your in a busy downtown area. Propane is the only way to go. The last thing you want to tell customers is your out of fries when real reason you can`t keep up with demand. You want to tell customers you ran out of taters...............

Dr of BBQ
        3.) If I went electric the current plug provided to me by the town is 110....would that have to be changed to 220v ?If you have any use of electric at all you'll need 220 amp service. They haven't built a house in years that doesn't have 220 amp service        

 
 Uh, You're getting VOLTS (v) and AMPS (a) ALL MIXED UP HERE ...!!!
 
Amps and volts are NOT the same critter...!!! 
 
(WATTS equals VOLTS times AMPS)
 
Lets see if I can shed some light from an electricians point of view
 
Schmelly...YES, do ask the city or mall  or premeses owner IF 220 VOLTS can be installed...
 
And next you'll want to know where the circuit breaker panel is that will feed the outlet you'll be using, and IF there is a double gang 50 ampbreaker on your circuit... that would be fairly standard...
 
IF you have the NEED, and IF the WIRE SIZE will permit it, it's possible you might be able to get a 100 AMP supply...(the amount of AMPs that can be crammed down a wire is a function of wire SIZE and temperature...
 
How many AMPS you'lly actually need is dependant on the mix of electrical and propane appliances...
 
You might find that a  popular configuration is thus:
 
Electricity for: hood fans, signs, cash register, refrigeration, phone (charger), lights...
 
Propane for: cooking.
 
When you look at natural gas appliances ask if they can be re-jetted for propane, or ordered factory propane ready. When considering USED gas appliances, ask your "Professional Propane Dealer" if the used equipment you're considering can be re-jetted for propane...(and I stress the word Professional" -  this is not a job for a shade tree mechanic - it HAS to be done properly)...
 
If the power available at the outlet is only 30 AMPS, you might have to add a complete solar power system (solar panels on the roof, charge controller, batteries, and TRUE Sine Wave DC to AC inverter, plus wiring and circuit breakers) which can power the cash register, phone, signs (use LED lights if you can) and use the AC outlet supplied by the property owner to power the hood fan and reefer box...
 
You'll most likely want a 50 amp "dryer plug" type connector to plug into the AC outlet the property owner is going to supply...but it might also be different, so you'll have to get a solid answer as to what type recepticle will be available for you to plug into. Avoid poer cord ADAPTORS because high current can generate heat which can start to melt the rubber of the typical power cord adaptors (I've seen it happen)...hardwire the correct plug to match the recepticle
 
Most reefers are 120 VOLTS, and many hood fans are 240 VOLTS, but if you look around you might be able to find a hood fan that runs on 120 VOLTS...or you can ask a competent electrician to see if a 120 VOLT motor from Granger's Supply could be fitted to an existing hood...
 
The Circuit Breaker panel ON THE VEHICLE can be 100 AMPS at 240 VOLTS, or whatever your ELECTRICAL CODE  or Health Dept dictates...the 240 VOLT incoming circuit can supply 240 volt appliances and also be split into two 120 VOLT branches...
 
If you can appoach this as an Alternative Power project...REDUCE THE LOAD, and then engineer backwards from the load to the power source if at all possible...
 
On the other hand, if the property owner sez: this is what you'll get and that's it, you'll have to engineer from the source to the loads (but still reduce the loads as much as possible...
 
LED and CFL lights help quite a bit, a (cell?) phone charger does not have to be on all the time, and modern cash registers don't use all that much current...neither do supermarket receipt printers...the fans and the reefer(s) will be your big electricity hogs ...
 
If you supplement your main power source (provided by the property owner) with a 120 VOLT solar set up, you'll want a separate circuit for the 120 solar powered stuff, and  separate circuits for the external 240 VOLT power supplied by the property owner... no big deal for a qualified electrician to install

PS...I know of a caterer in my area that has a food trailer, and it has a very spiffy Honda generator enclosed in a nice looking "diamond plate" metal enclosure mounted on the tongue of the trailer...out of the way, quiet, nice looking... completely SELF CONTAINED, no external power needed, can be set up ANYWHERE...the genny is probably 3,000 watts to 5,000 watts  (WATTS equals VOLTS times AMPS)...
 
ABOVE ALL ELSE: outfit your rig with quality in mind...it has to be safe, durable, servicable, and able to pass inspection(s)...
 
I hope this helps...
 
 

BackRhodes

Dr of BBQ
        3.) If I went electric the current plug provided to me by the town is 110....would that have to be changed to 220v ?If you have any use of electric at all you'll need 220 amp service. They haven't built a house in years that doesn't have 220 amp service        

Uh, You're getting VOLTS (v) and AMPS (a) ALL MIXED UP HERE ...!!!

  What I intended to say was "They haven't built a house in years that doesn't have 200 amp service."
 
The portion before that was a quote from the originator of the thread. And if the truth be known, if he'd just done a little research on Roadfood this topic has been discussed a thousand times, and the answer always comes out the same.
 
My typo may well have come about through frustration, of questions after questions, that are easily answered by the search engine at the top of the page. This topic has been hashed to death in dozens of threads. And that's just a pet peeve of mine that makes me a little crazy. I think the only information that you'll really retain is what you earn with some effort. If you can cheat and constantly look at somebody's test paper you'll never learn anything.  And you'll never know anything. Then again it may have been frustration and a combation of beer thirty. LOL
Jack

<message edited by Dr of BBQ on Wed, 08/31/11 9:08 PM>

Wow, thanks for the detailed response Doc....I am still waiting to here back from the city about the electric outlet......Also my brother in law is visiting me this weekend and he is an electrician, so I'm sure he will have some valuable input.

Found out the outlet given to me is 50 amp...
 
I am still debating on propane vs electric....I want propane but my gf wants electric b/c it is easier to clean and drain...We have to move our trailer from the location each day so we will have to drain it or cover it somehow.....
 
If I decide to go propane, can I split the one propane line that comes into the truck ? 
 
It currently goes from the tanks to the griddle....Can I split it there for a fryer also ?
 
And does anyone know if I can hook up a "camping" style 2 burner propane stove to this as well ?  thanks
 
So then I would use that one line to feed 3 appliances....
 
 

Schmelly
     Wow, thanks for the detailed response Doc....I am still waiting to here back from the city about the electric outlet......Also my brother in law is visiting me this weekend and he is an electrician, so I'm sure he will have some valuable input.     

 
Schmelly, are you talking about the response the I wrote above ???
 
(that was not Doc that wrote the long piece about electricty)
 
50 AMPS at what VOLTAGE (120 or 240 VAC) ...???   You left that part out...
 
What did your BIL say...???
 
Just like with electricty, instead of asking US, you really need to ge asking a LPG professional (you  might need to change the main regulator depending on what gas flow needs are needed to run ALL gas appliances...which (again) is why you need to talk to a GAS PROFESSIONAL to get the best answers to fit your situation...
 
Remember that your rig needs to pass DMV inspections besides Health dept inspections in your area...I have no idea why you'd want a consumer grade camping stove...beware of trying to kludge stuff together that may not be safe, and may not pass inspections, just because you have a small budget (i.e, CHEAP)...don't try to "cheap-s#!t" your way to success...stuff kludged together is RARELY ever SAFE...
IF you don't have enough in your budget to do things correctly and SAFE, then you need a fatter budget...
 
Find out what VOLTAGE that 50 AMP outlet is (also make sure you KNOW where the breaker is that feeds it), and contact a qualified electrician, and contact a qualified LPG gas person...us folks trying to answer your questions is like a blind doctor trying to do surgery...
 
As mentioned above, trying to run an electric fryer WITH your reefer and hood fan also drawing power from the same outlet might be a bit much...personally I would NOT try it...and remember the comment above that electric fryers might not be able to recover the needed temperature fast enough
 
(you DID read the comments about this, right ???)...
 
Do you wanna cook food as fast as your customer load demands, or please your GF...???
 
Are you approaching this as a real business, or as a hobby...???
 
Propane units are really not any harder to clean properly that an electric unit (I think thay're EASIER)...and many fryers have drain spouts...
 
HINT...drain and FILTER your oil DAILY...change your oil frequently, and keep your oil hot enough...you DO know that different oils are run at different temperatures, right...???... 
 
The THREE DEADLY OIL FRYER SINS ARE:
1)...useing OLD oil that is becoming rancid...
2)...not draining & FILTERING the oil EVERY day...food crud in the oil affects its taste... 
3)...not heating the oil to the correct TEMPERATURE for the type of food being cooked...too cold and the fry process does NOT come out right (such as terrible soggy undercooked french fries), and too hot is a FIRE hazard and shortens the life of your oil...
 
 
(good luck in your project)