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 Shaken, not Stirred

Change Page: < 12345678910.. > >> | Showing page 9 of 12, messages 241 to 270 of 344
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fcbaldwin

  • Total Posts: 388
  • Joined: 3/8/2004
  • Location: Powhatan, VA
RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 11:59 AM (permalink)
It seems to me that, depending upon how vehemently you go about the shaking, from as much as to freeze together the two halves of the shaker, to as little as to just jostle it to and fro, you can definitely change the appearance of the cocktail (and perhaps the taste), when you end up with all those microscopic bubbles that make it look cloudy.

Frank
 
    Grampy

    • Total Posts: 1559
    • Joined: 10/14/2002
    • Location: Greenfield, MA
    RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 12:08 PM (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by fcbaldwin

    It seems to me that, depending upon how vehemently you go about the shaking, from as much as to freeze together the two halves of the shaker, to as little as to just jostle it to and fro, you can definitely change the appearance of the cocktail (and perhaps the taste), when you end up with all those microscopic bubbles that make it look cloudy.

    Frank


    Frank:

    The cloudiness subsides relatively quickly. Since I keep my gin and shaker in the freezer, it lasts a little longer. But I find that it's usually clear after only a few seconds in normal circumstances. As a personal taste preference, I like that first sip with the hint of minute ice shards.

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
      Rayme

      • Total Posts: 106
      • Joined: 10/28/2001
      • Location: New York,
      RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 2:26 PM (permalink)
      quote:
      Originally posted by seafarer john

      Downtown: Be aware that I'm watching you very closely. You've already, on another thread, fallen into error when you mentioned something called a "Mexican Martini". I'm here to tell you there is only one Martini - a mix of a little dry Vermouth and a lot of Gin, strained thru a lot of ice, and garnished with an olive. All other cocktails served up in a "Martini" glass must be called by some other name.
      i.e. We here on the Roadfood have named that vodka and vermouth drink a "Stalini".

      Drink and enjoy what ever you want, but don't call it any kind of a Martini unless it is the classic mix.

      Cheers, John

      John/Grampy:

      Mr. Boston's has a name for the so-called 'Vodka Martini' and that is a 'Kangaroo'-I will leave it up to others to speculate why.

      Grampy, cheers to you for specifying olives; I never thought I would hear someone asking for picholines and lucques in their martini but why not the best.

      How about vermouth; any preferences?

      Just got back from Russia and there are no martinis there or any brands like Stolichnaya for that part.
       
        Grampy

        • Total Posts: 1559
        • Joined: 10/14/2002
        • Location: Greenfield, MA
        RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 2:32 PM (permalink)
        Rayme: I prefer Bossiere, but I also have bottles of Noilly-Prat and Martini and Rossi in the house as well. I use Lillet at times, which my friend Seafarer John thinks is awful.
         
          fcbaldwin

          • Total Posts: 388
          • Joined: 3/8/2004
          • Location: Powhatan, VA
          RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 2:32 PM (permalink)
          Rob,
          So is it those minute ice shards that is really the only difference in outcome from either shaking or stirring? It is certainly an appealing difference to me anyway.

          Frank
           
            Grampy

            • Total Posts: 1559
            • Joined: 10/14/2002
            • Location: Greenfield, MA
            RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 2:48 PM (permalink)
            Frank: Oddly, when I stir, the Martini has a slightly metallic taste at first, which I do not mind, but I do like the crisp edge on that first shaken sip. Naturally, there ws quite the discussion in the bartender's class I took over shaking and stirring. The teacher stood by the latter. I still find that when you are a few minutes in each, one cannot tell the difference. It may just be an aesthetic issue. I also use crystal Martini glasses, which maintain cold.

            Rob
             
              Sundancer7

              RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:07 PM (permalink)
              Regardless of whether a gin or vodka martini, I like it fresh from the freezer and the crystal straight from the freezer. I like either one and they have to be freezing cold.

              In the gin, I like the olives and no matter what you call it, I want the little onions in my vodka.

              Paul E. Smith
              Knoxville, TN
               
                fcbaldwin

                • Total Posts: 388
                • Joined: 3/8/2004
                • Location: Powhatan, VA
                RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:09 PM (permalink)
                Rob,
                What was the teacher's reasoning behind stirring as the preferred method? Nothing about "bruising" I hope! I think that depending on how much lead is in the crystal, that can affect the taste/texture of the drink as well. I have some of the high quality crystal Reidel martinis that Linda gave me a few years ago that I haven't used in awhile...maybe I'll get one out this evening.

                Frank
                 
                  fcbaldwin

                  • Total Posts: 388
                  • Joined: 3/8/2004
                  • Location: Powhatan, VA
                  RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:13 PM (permalink)
                  quote:
                  Originally posted by Sundancer7


                  In the gin, I like the olives and no matter what you call it, I want the little onions in my vodka.

                  Paul E. Smith
                  Knoxville, TN


                  Paul,
                  I like those little onions too. But they have to be from a freshly opened bottle, not one that's been opened and sitting in the fridge for awhile.

                  Frank
                   
                    Grampy

                    • Total Posts: 1559
                    • Joined: 10/14/2002
                    • Location: Greenfield, MA
                    RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:17 PM (permalink)
                    Frank: He knew all about the myth of bruising, but he was a stickler for bartender tradition, which is the stirred Martini. Riedel are the glasses I use. I warily plunked down the cash for them half a year ago, and I am glad I did. They also go in the freezer, because Sundancer is right -- COLD is the only way to go with a Martini. I could not believe when the food people of the times did a gin tasting, and the gin was sampled at room temperature. Saps! That's like eating un-popped popcorn.
                     
                      fcbaldwin

                      • Total Posts: 388
                      • Joined: 3/8/2004
                      • Location: Powhatan, VA
                      RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:26 PM (permalink)
                      And COLD is what you get when you shake for sure! As I said above, you can get that shaker just frozen up tight without a lot of effort!
                      The first time I used the Riedels..we had guests...and yep..one was broken. Only Linda and I knew the true extent of the "damage." Bummer.

                      Frank
                       
                        Grampy

                        • Total Posts: 1559
                        • Joined: 10/14/2002
                        • Location: Greenfield, MA
                        RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 3:32 PM (permalink)
                        quote:
                        Originally posted by fcbaldwin

                        And COLD is what you get when you shake for sure! As I said above, you can get that shaker just frozen up tight without a lot of effort!
                        The first time I used the Riedels..we had guests...and yep..one was broken. Only Linda and I knew the true extent of the "damage." Bummer.

                        Frank


                        Ah, the advantage of not having friends! Is it Martini time yet?
                         
                          seafarer john

                          RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 4:19 PM (permalink)
                          I agree, after a minute or so there's no way to tell the difference between shaken and stirred. But, that's not the point. The point is the esthetics and ethics of making the Martini. Shaking is a gross and awkward motion (Imagine the Japanese tea ceremony with the lady of the house vigorously shaking the tea pot!). then there's the ethics- the terrible turmoil and fright to which the Gin and Vermouth are subjected in that cement mixer- like metal shaker. Stirring is a gentle and graceful motion - an act that calms and satisfies the mind and body while preparing us perfectly for that first sip of Martini.

                          I guess there's no more point in beating this particular dead horse, so I'm ready to drop it. I've made and remade my point.
                          In any case if I ever have the opportunity to share a Martini with any of you, and you are the host, I wont give a damn if its shaken or stirred - I'll just be happy in the good company and the sharing of a wonderful drink.

                          Just about a half hour to "The hour"...

                          Cheers, John
                           
                            Grampy

                            • Total Posts: 1559
                            • Joined: 10/14/2002
                            • Location: Greenfield, MA
                            RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 4:53 PM (permalink)
                            SJ: Door is always open, and the 19th century silver shaker is a thing of beauty if you follow these rules (which I know you have heard a thousand times):

                            “In mixing the important thing is the rhythm. Always have rhythm in your shaking. Now a Manhattan, you shake to fox trot time; a Bronx to two-step time. But a Martini, you always shake to waltz time”
                            — William Powell in the Thin Man

                             
                              fcbaldwin

                              • Total Posts: 388
                              • Joined: 3/8/2004
                              • Location: Powhatan, VA
                              RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 5:20 PM (permalink)
                              Found the Riedels. Half-way through one shaken. (Boodles 5 to 1 with Noilly-Prat). Got that crisp little icyness on the first sip. This one's going fast. I can't really tell any other difference from the stirred, except I had to use both halves of the shaker of course.

                              Here's to y'all..

                              Frank
                               
                                downtown

                                • Total Posts: 68
                                • Joined: 10/5/2004
                                • Location: Lubbock, TX
                                RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 5:34 PM (permalink)
                                in that pic above, are those true 'tini glasses?
                                 
                                  fcbaldwin

                                  • Total Posts: 388
                                  • Joined: 3/8/2004
                                  • Location: Powhatan, VA
                                  RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 5:40 PM (permalink)
                                  downtown:
                                  I'm no expert on stemware. But I've seen that style before. The classic ones we see today have the "flare" all the way up if that's what you were thinking, but those in the picture may have been simply "straight up" cocktail glasses. Just my 2 cents.

                                  Frank
                                   
                                    Grampy

                                    • Total Posts: 1559
                                    • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                    • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                    RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 5:43 PM (permalink)
                                    quote:
                                    Originally posted by downtown

                                    in that pic above, are those true 'tini glasses?


                                    From what I have seen, the now ubiquitous conical-shaped Martini glass did not become codified until well into the 1950s. Pretty much any long-stemmed cocktail glass was serviceable until then.
                                     
                                      downtown

                                      • Total Posts: 68
                                      • Joined: 10/5/2004
                                      • Location: Lubbock, TX
                                      RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 5:58 PM (permalink)
                                      so is there any special advantage to the conical shaped ones now? does the glass matter as much as its contents? or is it just sexy?
                                       
                                        fcbaldwin

                                        • Total Posts: 388
                                        • Joined: 3/8/2004
                                        • Location: Powhatan, VA
                                        RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 6:08 PM (permalink)
                                        IMO, aesthetics are an important part of the enjoyment of food and drink. So I guess the sexyness and stylishness of the martini glass matters as much as the contents...well..almost as much. As far as functionality...there's something to that too, what with the stem, the type of glass, etc.

                                        Frank
                                         
                                          Grampy

                                          • Total Posts: 1559
                                          • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                          • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                          RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 6:11 PM (permalink)
                                          It's rather like wearing cargo pants to the Oak Bar in the Plaza. The glass has developed into a question of style and elegance. Obviously, there is scientific merit to it as well. The Martini surface is greater when first poured, when it is at its coldest. As you drink, there is less surface to lose the chill. Them stem is important, too, because you should never hold the glass by the bowl, which also would warm the glass's content due to body heat.

                                          And it is just plain sexy!
                                           
                                            fcbaldwin

                                            • Total Posts: 388
                                            • Joined: 3/8/2004
                                            • Location: Powhatan, VA
                                            RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 6:15 PM (permalink)
                                            Let's mix the next martini in a bucket and pour it into a Ball Jar to drink it. (I know, I know, we did stuff like that in college...except I don't remember the details).
                                             
                                              seafarer john

                                              RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 6:21 PM (permalink)
                                              I've seen those Thin Man movies a dozen times and if you'd asked me I would have sworn they were drinking from classic Martini glasses. What a let - down!

                                              Well, we had our Martini, but as Mrs. Seafarer was called out on an errand, we'll have to wait for our Friday nite second, and I'll get the Black Sea Bass and fennel ready for the Grill...

                                              Cheers, John
                                               
                                                Grampy

                                                • Total Posts: 1559
                                                • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                                • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                                RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 10/8/04 6:25 PM (permalink)
                                                Looking through my drink and film books, there are very few actual Martini glasses before 1950. Well, the missus just came in with lamb for kebabs. I will mix the first Martini in about half an hour.
                                                 
                                                  Grampy

                                                  • Total Posts: 1559
                                                  • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                                  • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                                  RE: Shaken, not Stirred Tue, 10/12/04 10:00 AM (permalink)
                                                  Having submitted the final chapters of the cocktail book, I treated myself to an indulgence. Now I can make my Martinis while on the road:

                                                  [img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/sonomagifts_1810_14866579[/img]
                                                   
                                                    seafarer john

                                                    RE: Shaken, not Stirred Tue, 10/12/04 6:09 PM (permalink)
                                                    Grampy, That's magnificent -it looks like Coachwork- but where's the little bottle of olives? Our traveling bar has always consisted of stuffing our bottles in whatever nook and cranny was available and depending on the hotel to provide
                                                    the clumsy glasses that typically come with the room.

                                                    Cheers, John
                                                     
                                                      Grampy

                                                      • Total Posts: 1559
                                                      • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                                      • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                                      RE: Shaken, not Stirred Tue, 10/12/04 7:17 PM (permalink)
                                                      Rest assured, I never travel without olives -- like Elliot Gould in MASH.
                                                       
                                                        rmcielwain

                                                        • Total Posts: 607
                                                        • Joined: 7/26/2004
                                                        • Location: Chipley, FL
                                                        RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 11/5/04 7:29 PM (permalink)

                                                        Well, this is even a challenge for Grampy: an article in
                                                        "USA TODAY" about VanGogh Vodka giving away 2.5 million free
                                                        CD's of "8,400 Recipes for Martinis"....

                                                        (11/5/04)
                                                         
                                                          seafarer john

                                                          RE: Shaken, not Stirred Fri, 11/5/04 9:26 PM (permalink)
                                                          God save us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                          Cheers, John
                                                           
                                                            Rayme

                                                            • Total Posts: 106
                                                            • Joined: 10/28/2001
                                                            • Location: New York,
                                                            RE: Shaken, not Stirred Mon, 11/8/04 2:08 PM (permalink)
                                                            quote:
                                                            Originally posted by Grampy

                                                            It's rather like wearing cargo pants to the Oak Bar in the Plaza. The glass has developed into a question of style and elegance. Obviously, there is scientific merit to it as well. The Martini surface is greater when first poured, when it is at its coldest. As you drink, there is less surface to lose the chill. Them stem is important, too, because you should never hold the glass by the bowl, which also would warm the glass's content due to body heat.

                                                            And it is just plain sexy!

                                                            Grampy, is this really true? (the scientific merit part, I know it is sexy). I have always maintained the same functionality raison d'etre for martini or cocktail glasses (I thought I made this point in one of the forums but I can't find it), but I thought I just made it up as cocktail shinola; perhaps it is really true!!

                                                            Cheers,

                                                            Rayme
                                                             
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