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 Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival

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rubyhawaii

  • Total Posts: 5
  • Joined: 9/18/2012
  • Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Tue, 09/18/12 5:52 PM (permalink)
I have a chance to do a two do festival, fees are pretty high, dunno how the crowd is, but there's already a cream vendor there. Is it unwise to work the fair with a competitor selling a similar item? It's in October, so it might not be super hot weather. 
 
 
<message edited by rubyhawaii on Thu, 09/20/12 4:10 PM>
 
#1
    jcheese

    • Total Posts: 739
    • Joined: 3/5/2011
    • Location: Fieldale, VA
    Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Tue, 09/18/12 7:34 PM (permalink)
    Depends on the fee.
     
    #2
      rubyhawaii

      • Total Posts: 5
      • Joined: 9/18/2012
      • Location: Santa Barbara, CA
      Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Tue, 09/18/12 9:14 PM (permalink)
      around 250 a day.
       
       
      #3
        THE WILD DOG

        • Total Posts: 1465
        • Joined: 1/12/2010
        • Location: Hunt Valley, MD
        Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 6:40 AM (permalink)
        ask for a sales guarantee since you are paying a vendor fee. How long is the festival
         
        #4
          edwmax

          • Total Posts: 2015
          • Joined: 1/1/2007
          • Location: Cairo, GA
          Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 10:22 AM (permalink)
          I suggest checking with the local Chamber of Commerce for info about the festival and local news paper(s).     They should be able to verify the size of crowd of past events.   Be sure they are reporting the actual size of the crowd and not the PR info from the event promoter.
           
          #5
            jcheese

            • Total Posts: 739
            • Joined: 3/5/2011
            • Location: Fieldale, VA
            Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 11:42 AM (permalink)
            The question can't be answered w/o knowing the size of the crowd.
            Ten-thousand people will support two of the same. One-thousand may not. Even then there are no guarantees.
            $250 sounds like a big event. Can you handle the volume?
            Do you know how much product you can put out in an hour and how long it will take to break even? Do you know "how your products sell"? Does it have to be hot(Santa Barbara in Oct.?). Are the hours of the fair during peak sales time? Does your product stand out as superior or is it at least perceived to be? Is your stand flashier? Are you familiar with your competition? Can you google them and check them out?
            Do some research.....
             
            #6
              Dr of BBQ

              • Total Posts: 3716
              • Joined: 10/11/2004
              • Location: Springfield, IL
              • Roadfood Insider
              Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 1:33 PM (permalink)
              What does around 250 a day mean? Are you saying it's a 3 day event and they want $500.00? Do they get a percentage also?
              $250.00 a day is a lot of money up front. Plus your stock, cups, help, and other normal expenses.
               
              If you add up the number of hours spent in prep/setup, hours worked, employees hours (if any) and clean up, teardown. Then divide it by the number of hours the event is open you'll know how much you have to gross in order to make a profit per hour. But if you have product left over that can be sold the next day or week take that into consideration also.
               
              #7
                jcheese

                • Total Posts: 739
                • Joined: 3/5/2011
                • Location: Fieldale, VA
                Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 2:32 PM (permalink)
                In other words you need $25 an hour NET PROFIT to break even if you work ten hours a day. All your prep and teardown/clean-up time is like sitting in your car at a stop light. Zero miles per gallon.
                 
                #8
                  Dr of BBQ

                  • Total Posts: 3716
                  • Joined: 10/11/2004
                  • Location: Springfield, IL
                  • Roadfood Insider
                  Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 5:22 PM (permalink)
                  Jcheese,
                  Your right of course if the owner is the only employee. But if you have employees helping in the prep and teardown/clean-up time your going backwards. And the more employees the faster your going backwards.LOL I have to pay employees travel time (to and from) to do some events.
                   
                  #9
                    rubyhawaii

                    • Total Posts: 5
                    • Joined: 9/18/2012
                    • Location: Santa Barbara, CA
                    Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 8:12 PM (permalink)
                    It's $250/day for a two day event. 
                    One thing I'm trying to figure out is if Shave Ice competes directly with Italian Ice? I'm not even familiar enough with Italian Ice to know how similar or dissimilar it is. Shave Ice seems to survive okay when there are ice cream vendors. But I dunno that much about Italian Ice. 
                    We've got a workhorse Hatsuyuiki that can handle volume. We're quite efficient. 
                    Weather does indeed play a big factor for us. it's about 50% chance of hot weather. 
                     
                     
                    #10
                      jcheese

                      • Total Posts: 739
                      • Joined: 3/5/2011
                      • Location: Fieldale, VA
                      Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 8:28 PM (permalink)
                      I have no idea what the difference betwixt the two is. You, of all people should.
                      Research and be the Master of what you do!
                      Do you think they are worried about you?
                      They may be reading this post.
                      Define thy enemy and defeat them!
                       
                      #11
                        jcheese

                        • Total Posts: 739
                        • Joined: 3/5/2011
                        • Location: Fieldale, VA
                        Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 8:34 PM (permalink)
                        Also, you don't give us any idea of past experience. Are you a newbie? Have you been successful other places?
                        Ya can't be vague if you want specific advise.
                         
                        #12
                          rubyhawaii

                          • Total Posts: 5
                          • Joined: 9/18/2012
                          • Location: Santa Barbara, CA
                          Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 9:04 PM (permalink)
                          jcheese


                          Also, you don't give us any idea of past experience. Are you a newbie? Have you been successful other places?
                          Ya can't be vague if you want specific advise.

                           not a newbie, but trying to ramp up into bigger and more venues. Did a few events this summer that were in the $1000 plus per day ballpark. Last year we did smaller stuff. We are good with the technical side of production and the logistics of supply. We want to get a better feel for the best types of events to lobby for. Health fees here are high, booth fees can be higher, and we're often required to give a 20% cut to NPO's or whatever. We love vending, but at the same time don't want to be a charity. 
                           
                          Any info about Italian Ice as a competitor to Hawaiian Shave ice? Weather we cannot control, but other things  we can.
                           
                          #13
                            chefbuba

                            • Total Posts: 1955
                            • Joined: 6/22/2009
                            • Location: Near You, WA
                            Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Wed, 09/19/12 9:47 PM (permalink)
                            $500 for the two days, plus hd permit?.....You would have to sell a hell of a lot of ice to make any $ on that one.
                            Weather is a big factor in Oct in SB...or is it inland where it may be a bit warmer?
                             
                            I just passed up a week long event two blocks from my daily spot. Would have cost me around $350 a day, not including stock. I'm on the beach, and it could be 85 or 60 and cloudy. Weather only cooperated for about half the week, don't think the venders did very well.
                             
                            #14
                              rubyhawaii

                              • Total Posts: 5
                              • Joined: 9/18/2012
                              • Location: Santa Barbara, CA
                              Re:Shave Ice versus Italian Ice at same festival Thu, 09/20/12 4:13 PM (permalink)
                              And in related news, today we became a victim a politics. We got bumped from a different venue/event because an ice cream dealer thought we were taking away their action. We'd done the event for the last 3 years too :( 
                               
                              We're cool with it though. Get it? "Cool"? 
                               
                              #15
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