Smoker inside or out?

Hello everyone:
I'm in the research and planning stages of a new BBQ joint. I'm a traditionally trained Executive Chef with over 25 years experience in food service. My first job was at a large BBQ called Minors in Orlando FL. back in "83" since that time I have worked in nearly every facet of dining from Waffle House to the Myrtle Beach Hilton.  I have worked corporate and privately owned. I've slung hash and crafted Lobster Thermador I've seen a variety of business strategies, and management techniques, what worked and what did not.
 
In every case my work has made others a ton of money. This has to stop.
 
My first love is BBQ. I'm no where near at the top of that game, but what I prepare is quite well received. I have decided to make this work and this site has been invaluable in digging up information I need to at least know the questions I need to ask myself. I'm going in on a shoestring but I have found a decent spot at a very low cost and do not plan to make any money personally for the first year. It will be a grow as you go operation that will spotlight food quality and building a brand recognition so that as I grow I retain those loyal to the flavor they have come to expect.
 
The one thing I cant seem to make up my mind about is where to put the smoker. My nearly religious reverence for fire and smoke scream at me to put the smoker out the back door and allow the fresh air to swirl around my lovely butts and brisket perhaps a security fence and awning. On the other hand it would be lovely to have an indoor unit. My initial plans do not yet include fryers or any other open flame as this will save me an enormous amount in ventilation / suppression and insurance costs.
 
My business plan is based on expansion. I will start with a very small menu of items I know I can do very well and as business dictates I can open into the unit beside me and expand the kitchen to include catering events and a slightly larger menu. In the endI want to include a large retail section for BBQ enthusiasts but thats the end of the line and no where in sight.
 
So what are your opinions on the smoker inside or outside?
 
And thank all of you and roadfood.com for providing this forum that has been so helpful.

I seek out BBQ joints that have unique pits, etc. With the utmost respect to Mike Mills, a Old Hickory pit indoors makes you a one store Famous Dave's and that I can find anywhere. Just one man's opinion.

Most I like have them either outside or in an open attached shed.

Hey Chef, Good luck on your new business idea, I hope all works out well. If your going to do events a smoker with a hitch would be the ticket. The nice thing about BBQ is you could get away with a limited menu, make it good and they will come. Shredded smoked butt, carved smoked Brisket, Ribs, slaw, and beans with bits of Q, throw it on butcher paper with sliced bread, take it to the bank. .....Smoker outside to travel......................Billyb.......P.S.There were some good pictures of Blacks BBQ  and a few others, in Texas on this site.

I need a bit more info before offering an opinion. Is your smoker to be a wood-fired machine or gas or electric heat-source? The only difference I see is that if you use the wood-fired outdoor cooker you have the advantage that the wood-pile and visual smoke and smell give to the BBQ experience for the customer. That goes a long way with many customers, but compared to the gas or electric it is very labor intensive. Lots of Hickory available in the Eastern KY area so fuel would not be an issue. 

     If you do choose an internal cooker consider using a small teaser smoker outdoors where the smoke and smell will reach outside your property. The Brick Pit, a well-loved BBQ outfit in Mobile AL does that and you can smell their BBQ "smoke" for a quarter mile down the road. It is a real good lead to the BBQ place. Most wood-fired Ques that I know use the "Shed out Back" location!

For an outside smoker I think I would lean towards a combination wood/propane. My experience dictates I not use wood for the entire cook. In other situations I have used wood with charcoal. On a large cut of meat I would start with wood then ease into straight charcoal and finish with a little more wood. gets the flavor I want without the smoke completely overpowering the seasoning.

Chef Wylde,
 
Give your patrons a rest from the smoke.
 
25 yrs ago, my Bride was pregnant with the 1st child.
 
We HEATED with WOOD!  The smell of the smoke sent her to the toilet . . . EVERYDAY! 
Nothing has changed from those days . . . 25 yrs ago!
 
Go For the FRESH Air!!!
There will be plenty of "Smoke Smells" from the Q.

I think it depends on how much experience you want to bring to the customer. I've been to places you sit around the pits to massive pits in a side lot. Each had their own unique style.
 
Forgot whatever way has to be wood fired. Have pulled away without entering at places that when you got out of the car/trk. no smell in the air.
Run walk, feet do your stuff.  Have a place here, never been inside the doors, since new owners took over. They bring in packaged stuff, not better stuff.

Good luck to you Chef and I hear you about working for the "Man"!!!
  There is a reason why most traditional "Q" joints have pits outside.  As one foodie to another you've chosen to cook something that is more deeply tied to tradition than any other food group (Que is a major food group in the south) I can think of!  Whatever you do make sure that your woodpile is highly visible (We don't eat the Que if we don't see wood).  They mobile cooker idea is great and I just saw 2 cookers for sale on Craig's list for a great price.  If you are really serious about your craft then make the pilgramage to eastern NC and pick up some tips.  A bit closer to home is Lexington, TN, there are some true "PitMasters" that cook there.  Whatever you decide to do have fun at it and God Bless!

I used a Rollin' Roaster Smoker
it's propane for the constant low heat with a wood tray for the flavor. They have a website & are great people to deal with. Mine is small but can handle a 200lb hog easily, butts around 20, 40 1/2 chickens, 20 ribs. I am totally mobile & do mostly onsite catering.

Curbside Grill


I think it depends on how much experience you want to bring to the customer. I've been to places you sit around the pits to massive pits in a side lot. Each had their own unique style.
 
Forgot whatever way has to be wood fired. Have pulled away without entering at places that when you got out of the car/trk. no smell in the air.
Run walk, feet do your stuff.  Have a place here, never been inside the doors, since new owners took over. They bring in packaged stuff, not better stuff.

I hear that. Inside or out there will be some outside smoke. If I have to run chickens all day on a brinkman there will be the sweet smell of wood smoke wafting around calling folks to supper. I do not eat Q where I do not smell smoke period. Ever.

WC.. In todays economy, I'd do a mobile setup to start out with regular hours, same location, and build yourself a name then move on to a brick and mortar situation.  Like you, I've been in and out of the industry for over 32 years, and seen a lot of people try, with most of them failing.  Need to start out with a quality product and self market yourself to build up your name and reputation.  Once you have a strong following and your recipes down pact, then take the big plunge.

There is not a state in this country that will allow a smoker inside a building without a complete ventilation system (hood system).

Note I didn't say suppression system.You can't run an electric smoker inside a building without a system to remove the smoke during the smoking period and especially when you open the door to remove the product. You'd just fill the building with smoke.

I sugest you go talk to your city health department, your city fire code inspector, and your city zoning department before you make any grand plans, or spend any money.

UncleVic


WC.. In todays economy, I'd do a mobile setup to start out with regular hours, same location, and build yourself a name then move on to a brick and mortar situation.  Like you, I've been in and out of the industry for over 32 years, and seen a lot of people try, with most of them failing.  Need to start out with a quality product and self market yourself to build up your name and reputation.  Once you have a strong following and your recipes down pact, then take the big plunge.

Best advice here. Wish I was back Home in Tampa, can show many a stick burners in Parking lots,weekends, that only do meats , sides your doing.
But The product coming off these is unreal. Some been in same place for years.

UncleVic


WC.. In todays economy, I'd do a mobile setup to start out with regular hours, same location, and build yourself a name then move on to a brick and mortar situation.  Like you, I've been in and out of the industry for over 32 years, and seen a lot of people try, with most of them failing.  Need to start out with a quality product and self market yourself to build up your name and reputation.  Once you have a strong following and your recipes down pact, then take the big plunge.

Best advice here. Wish I was back Home in Tampa, can show many a stick burners in Parking lots,weekends, that only do meats , sides your doing.
But The product coming off these is unreal. Some been in same place for years.

I'll go ahead and third that sentiment Curbside :)

Actually I came to the same conclusion myself at about the same time as it was posted here. Speaking to the wife who said mildly; "Why not get a decent sized  Pitt and work with it for a while while you finish your planning and research, I mean you'll need to practice on it anyway right ?"

She's a freaking jewel :)

So yup thats the ticket I'm going to be talking to the local constabulary about my options and start looking for a decent sized pit.

When I asked the question originally I had thought I could vent the individual indoor smoker unit with a variable speed centrifugal fan. This will be a question for the fire Marshall later on. 

I never question the wifes judgment since she choose who to marry. Best thinking person on plant.

My husband and I are planning to get an indoor smoker for our restaurant. I will have to talk to the town, but I don't anticipate a problem since the smokers we are looking at are UL approved. In a climate where we are subzero for half the year an outdoor cooker just isn't gonna be practical for us. To get an idea of what we're looking at check out these links....

misc. indoor smoker page

And we fell in love with one we saw at a local small butcher's. It has ALL the bells and whistles: King's Choice Smokers (Regina, SK) . Their smoker needs no vent hood. It simply vents to the outside like a stove. Make friends with the local butcher! We're going to serve some items that are really in touch with the locals, thanks to them.

WyldeChef


For an outside smoker I think I would lean towards a combination wood/propane. My experience dictates I not use wood for the entire cook. In other situations I have used wood with charcoal. On a large cut of meat I would start with wood then ease into straight charcoal and finish with a little more wood. gets the flavor I want without the smoke completely overpowering the seasoning.

 
Que'ing is an art. We still work at it. Like sailing, you can learn basics in a day but life time to Master.

As someone who has worked at a BBQ joint that had an indoor and outdoor smoker, I don't think it is nearly as important as the prep to make good Q. One place I worked at had a gas based smoker out in a building he built and his BBQ was OK. Another place used a commercial Cookshack smoker, and his BBQ was far superior.

He used an older version of this:

http://store.cookshack.co...smoker-oven-sm250.aspx

Papa Deuce


As someone who has worked at a BBQ joint that had an indoor and outdoor smoker, I don't think it is nearly as important as the prep to make good Q. One place I worked at had a gas based smoker out in a building he built and his BBQ was OK. Another place used a commercial Cookshack smoker, and his BBQ was far superior.

He used an older version of this:

http://store.cookshack.com/p-122-smartsmoker-oven-sm250.aspx

I am in full agreement on this point. I have used the same set of recipes for several years and haven't seen much difference as a result of different cookers. A couple were tougher to get under control but once the learning curve was satisfied one pretty much tastes like any other.
 
That being said if I could engineer a situation, I would have an immaculate working pit visible from the street. The marketing value alone is just through the roof.

WyldeChef

Papa Deuce


As someone who has worked at a BBQ joint that had an indoor and outdoor smoker, I don't think it is nearly as important as the prep to make good Q. One place I worked at had a gas based smoker out in a building he built and his BBQ was OK. Another place used a commercial Cookshack smoker, and his BBQ was far superior.

He used an older version of this:

http://store.cookshack.com/p-122-smartsmoker-oven-sm250.aspx

I am in full agreement on this point. I have used the same set of recipes for several years and haven't seen much difference as a result of different cookers. A couple were tougher to get under control but once the learning curve was satisfied one pretty much tastes like any other.
 
That being said if I could engineer a situation, I would have an immaculate working pit visible from the street. The marketing value alone is just through the roof.

For a while I was seriously considering opening a spice store in a town that WANTED me to open it. They were very excited by the idea of not having "another antique shop" in their shopping area. They even went so far as to tell me that I could set up a small smoker on the sidewalk and sell pulled pork sandwiches. The idea was not to be a restaurant, but draw them in with the smell, and then sell customers the spices I used to make BBQ.

Unfortunately, the building I was about to lease was sold before I signed on, and the new owners had their own plans. This was just 3 stores from a small, historic movie theater / concert venue.

Imagine actually having a smoker right up against your store ( assuming it could be done safely ).... Mine could have been done safely.

Canajuns


My husband and I are planning to get an indoor smoker for our restaurant. I will have to talk to the town, but I don't anticipate a problem since the smokers we are looking at are UL approved. In a climate where we are subzero for half the year an outdoor cooker just isn't gonna be practical for us. To get an idea of what we're looking at check out these links....

misc. indoor smoker page

And we fell in love with one we saw at a local small butcher's. It has ALL the bells and whistles: King's Choice Smokers (Regina, SK) . Their smoker needs no vent hood. It simply vents to the outside like a stove. Make friends with the local butcher! We're going to serve some items that are really in touch with the locals, thanks to them.

I just looked at http://www.cyclonemetalproducts.com/kings.php but how in the world are you going to get the smoke out of the building with out an exhaust system? I own two electric smokers, one of which I had custom built with the very best door insulation known to man, so I could run it in my garage. If I ran it in the garage 10 days later my garage still smelled like a forest fire. With all due respect electric smokers just won't vent themselves, your gas or electric dryer won't vent itself so how would something burning wood vent itself? You usually don't need an Ansul system but you need to get the smoke out of the building, especially when you open the door to remove product.

I gotta go to that butcher again so I can see the thing. Their setup is pretty much what I've been thinking of in terms of exhaust. The thing's inside, the smoke isn't....that's all I know ATM.

Canajuns


I gotta go to that butcher again so I can see the thing. Their setup is pretty much what I've been thinking of in terms of exhaust. The thing's inside, the smoke isn't....that's all I know ATM.

I understand what your saying but look at the picture on the web site closely, there is an exhaust vent on top of the smoker. Now here is what will happen when you run a smoker indoors:

1. When you load it and fire it up it will start to burn the pellets, wood chunks, or logs. The ensuing smoke will tend to go out of the vent and you can run some sort of vent pipe outside to help the smoke escape the building, but that said, you'll find tiny leaks around the door gasket that will allow at least some smoke into your building.
2. The big issue though is at the end of your cook  cycle when you want to remove the smoked items from the smoker. When you open the door you'll allow the remaining smoke right into the building.
3. You just have to have some way to evacuate the smoke from the smoker to the outdoors. That's where the exhaust system comes into play. With a good exhaust hood you can open the door and 90% will be sucked out side of your kitchen. You'll still have some that will linger but not an objectionable amount.

Here are the top smokers web sites, in no particular order. I own a Klose Stick , A Cookshack and a Southern Pride.

I'm currently cooking two briskets on my Southern Pride.

http://www.cookshack.com/...ntial-barbecue-smokers

http://www.traegergrills....itmWx58CFRQhnAodcXmO0w

http://www.southern-pride.com/p/pits.php

I just realized your in Canada (duh) lol I don't know the rules there but I promise you the results will be the same as per above with out some way to evacuate the smoke.

The only way you could pull this off that I know of with out a hood is to use chemical smoke (non wood burning) and under pressure. I have seen these units but never run one. I do know they are  usually very big and very expensive. A lot of ham and sausage companies use these units.

Best of luck which ever way you go.

Not Sure if You have seen this "Top 16" article from D magazine in Dallas..The reviewer mentions brand names and types of smokers in each restnt reviewed..could be useful article for you. Good Luck !

http://www.dmagazine.com/...arbecue_in_Dallas.aspx

BTW : This is Genius !!

That being said if I could engineer a situation, I would have an immaculate working pit visible from the street. The marketing value alone is just through the roof.

Thanks very much for these great tips! I appreciate it.

As far as venting Dr. I mentioned the idea of a variable speed centrifugal fan and ductwork. It's still vented just not filtered for grease which as far as I know is not the problem.

You would have to have variable speed because air flow is as important as fire to the cooking process but at the end of the cycle you would just turn it up to a strong setting and clear the pit. It would look like an old fashioned wood burning heater with a pipe off the exhaust and out the wall. the fan would be at or near the other end.

Doesn't this make sense from a venting standpoint?

Yes until you take into account how much grease and oil you'd be trying to pull thru your fan. With in a couple of sessions you'd have grease dripping out of your pipe and running back into your smoker. It would turn into a disaster pretty quickly.

I went to a local Corky"s (that had closed) last year to bid on a big indoor Southern Pride, and even with a big exhaust fan/hood the entire wall above and behind the smoker was black with smoke and had a thick coating of grease on it.

The national sales manager for Southern Pride lives just a few miles from my stand and I called him to ask if that was normal and he said if the operators didn't bother to turn on the built in smoke evacuateter (sp?) and just opened the door yes.

Another thing you need to consider is how your going to clean a pit indoors. If you could set one over or at least very near a floor drain that would help in the cleaning process.