State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims.

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jcheese
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2014/07/31 17:52:29 (permalink)

State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims.

OK,I've got the entire Health Code as a PDF on my computer. (For my state)
I asked my inspector if there was any other codes, local or otherwise, and he says no.
Yet, he starts spouting off all these rules that are not in the code.
Can he do this?
Can he make me do things that are not written down SOMEWHERE?
I mean like...refridgerate my mustard?
Just cuz he's an inspector, he can make up rules?
The more I show my rights and knowledge of the the code, the nastier he gets.
Can I report him to the State, or over rule him?
I went 3 years with nothing but 100% inspections.
Got some new guy now that I think is picking on me.
 
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    chicagostyledog
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/07/31 20:26:52 (permalink)
    Talk to your previous inspector or the new inspector's supervisor.
    #2
    RodBangkok
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/07/31 21:47:18 (permalink)
    If he cannot reference infractions back to the code, as suggested above take up through the organization structure, be polite, and try and get an ally with this guys supervisor.  As long as you let them run over you they will continue to do so, always ask for a reference within the code for infractions, and don't debate with him, take it up thru the organization, the code is your key, not a debate with him.
     
     
    #3
    jcheese
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 01:32:31 (permalink)
    I guess my point is....if it's not in writing in the State Code, and there is no local code, can they just tell me crap and shut me down for not complying? Can I sue them? Or at least threaten to?
    I've read the code up and down and they are inferring things that are not there.
    I mean, if I run a red light, there is a written code I violated. If I pick my nose and the cop thinks it's disgusting, can he make up some law about it?
    I run a clean and safe operation and follow the WRITTEN rules.
    I also have an issue with churches not having to follow ANY rules, but that's another thread.
     
     
    #4
    edwmax
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 10:57:55 (permalink)
    jcheese
    I guess my point is....if it's not in writing in the State Code, and there is no local code, can they just tell me crap and shut me down for not complying? ....
        Yes, they can shut you down.  but this doesn't mean they were right to do so.    ... It's called under "color of the law".    ... This has been referenced before on the forums.
     
    jcheese  ... Can I sue them? Or at least threaten to? ...
        Yes you can.   The applicable statutes are the US Civil rights code.  Which opened the door for suits against public officials and/or their agency who failed to do their duty (intentionally or un-intentionally); or were improperly trained.   ... This means you can personally sue the Inspector too.
     
    Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
    Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

    This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.
    This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.
    Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.
    Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
     
     
     
    post edited by edwmax - 2014/08/01 11:04:31
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    edwmax
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 11:00:04 (permalink)
    I suggest that you insist on the HD Insp. to put ALL his instructions in writing; and for you to carry a voice recorder to prove his demands.    
    #6
    edwmax
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 12:14:26 (permalink)
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    OzdogsOfPhoenix
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 15:09:07 (permalink)
    Only one time I advised another vendor to press suit againat a town for ordinaces. In this case the hot dogger actually bought and owned the busy downtown business property and the town was throwing up every wall in the world. Environmental impact studies? Really? And that costs $12k? Really?
     
    Well since this business had actually done all the legal hoops and inspections and business licenses and the routine, they could demonstrate loss of revenue when the town shut them down and for once I said screw 'em take 'em to court. And hurt them. HURT_THEM and put a hole in their wallet.
     
    The town backed down and the daughter got a college eduation and a new car. They cleaned up.
     
     
    #8
    jcheese
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 19:24:54 (permalink)
    I guess my main issue is if the Code doesn't have it in writing, where I can read it, how do I comply?
    This guy now brings his supervisor along.
    Shooting off rules like....my holding tank that I wash hands from needs to be drained and refilled every day I work. Even if I'm at a locale that has a restroom 20 ft. away, and I don't use mine.
    Even if I sell out, I have to drive to the commissary to store my mustard and catsup.
    I'm all for rules, but if you can't spell them out for me, how do I comply?
    Been going for 3 years now.Eveybody's been happy.
    Been barely making a living. I have no back-up or reserves.
    If they shut me down(which I think they won't) I'll hand them my kitchen knife (sanitized of course) and tell them they may as well stab me. Or I can get the knife real close to my wrists.
    This is my only source of money. I'm a year away from SS. I've used up my savings, 401k, etc.
    If it wasn't for Food Stamps and the fact my home is paid for, I'd be totally screwed
    Just an American trying to make a living and selling awesome food folks rave about.
    #9
    edwmax
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 23:04:00 (permalink)
    jcheese
    I guess my main issue is if the Code doesn't have it in writing, where I can read it, how do I comply?
    ...




    They can only enforce rule & codes that are written.  Anything else is exceeding their authority.   Get all their directions & orders in writing.  Then you will have provable case again them.
    #10
    hpx
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/01 23:33:59 (permalink)
    Never Never Never argue with an inspector. Do not spout the rules that you think or know contradict the violation they are claiming. Be friendly and keep asking them questions, seek their opinion on everything, keep them talking and you would be surprised how easy your inspections will be. A lot will depend on the mood they are in. I know it doesnt sound right but the damage of getting a bad grade whether you get it reversed or not far exceeds the justice of being right. 
    #11
    bartl
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    Re: State Health Code vs. Inspectors whims. 2014/08/02 11:20:47 (permalink)
    It is VERY hard to convey tone in a written message, but the key is to try to make it, instead of you and the inspector on opposite sides, make it you and the inspector both trying to follow the rules as best you can. Therefore, if the inspector quotes a violation that you did not know about, say, without even a HINT of sarcasm, that you hadn't seen the rule, and that you would (GENUINELY) appreciate if he could help you find it, because perhaps there are other rules in the same place that you may have missed. It helps to start out with the attitude that he is correct until proven otherwise. There are 3 major possibilities here: 1) You are wrong. 2) He is wrong, but doesn't realize it. 3) He is making up his own rules. The trick is to make sure that, if it's case #2, that you don't end up alienating him in the process (this is from general experience with bureaucrats; while there is a difference between sanitation inspectors with a quota to fill and health inspectors, I believe the principle still holds).

    Bart
    #12
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