Stranger in a strange land

Have been in the quality/gourmet hotdog business in the United Kingdom for the past 4 years. Am looking to make a move back "home" to the States. Wanted to thank Chicagostyle for giving me an idea of what I'm letting myself in for. Gotta tell you though, it scares me as it was never in my script of life to be a "purveyor of fine frankfurters".....Now that's English! I'm really hoping to get a handle of making a success Stateside in the New Year. All the best to all you hotdog fans out there.

Skip Murray

and what kind of hotdogs would Michael have sold? That could be a whole new book. Any RF/SF fans here? Let us know when you set up. I would not be surprised if a few RF fans dropped by.

hey skip, welcome. Are you moving back to New Orleans? I don't associate hot dogs and New Orleans.

"purveyor of fine frankfurters".....

Why Skip, I think that should be boldly emblazoned upon your cart!

Perhaps "Francophiles" as well .

Good luck to you and Welcome home!

Skip, welcome aboard. BTW, hot dog carts in New Orleans have been around since Lucky Dog. Liquored up college students purchasing hot dogs has been a successful sales strategy on campuses for years. Late night, weekend evenings bring out lots of hungry customers leaving the bars in search of food. I know of two hot dog vendors that make a good living from that market.

cool, CSD. What's the preferred brand and style down there?

quote:

Originally posted by bill voss

cool, CSD. What's the preferred brand and style down there?

Vienna Beef is sold at most Chicago hot dog establishments, including ours in southeastern Wisconsin at the Illinois/Wisconsin border. Lykes is the brand that Lucky Dog in New Orleans has advertised on their cart umbrellas. www.virtualtourist.com/vt/c19b6/2/e65/ For pictures of Lucky Dog, scroll down after Deril's Diner for four reviews complete with pictures.

Thanks, CSD. I've never been to New Orleans. Street Carts weren't a part of my KC upbringing. I don't think they were allowed, so I'm always interested in how other cities handle them. What about the steaming mentioned in the 2nd review? Is that the case most places?
Bill

Bill,
We can steam, boil, or grill dogs off a cart in Wisconsin, but the grill must be attached to the cart. We prefer boiling our dogs since it takes less time and allows us to sell more product. Our cart has 3 12X20X6 water pans. We use two half pans to boil dogs and two full pans to steam the buns. The buns come in special steamer boxes of 10/box. www.qualitystreetcarts.com/wisconsin.htm
We had this cart built two years ago to conform with the state of Wisconsin Department of Health codes. Unfortunately, there was no space to attach a small gas grill, so no grilled dogs or sweet grilled onions for our customers.

PortofCall : .... Welcome back to the States......... Living out of the good old USofA aint all it's cracked up to be is it?......... But that said, lets talk hot dogs. I just hope your not planing on move your business to California the hot dog doldrums of the world. California the most populus state in the Union "don't eat hot dogs" I live in San Jose the 11th largest city in the US and the 3 largest city on the west coast and we have only one "Hot Dog Joint"
I'm a New York transplant and love the dogs...................... but here in California one would be hard pressed to find a traditional joint dedicated to serving the all American hot dog. I can only think of two in the whole state Pink's of LA and Mark's here in San Jose. Marks wouldn't even be around today if it weren't for the generosity of our city declaring it a historical building and paying to have it moved and reestablished at a different location.
.........Frank C.

Skip, Welcome back to the states! Dont let the taxs bother you, just the goverments way of letting you know that they are still around, and to humor you! So you setting up in New Orleans market or picking another town for your stateside venture? Keep us posted! And ya, CSD is a valuable outlet of information on this site! He tells it the way it is, either good or bad... Again, Welcome!

I've said it before, I'll say it again. head up to Oakland or Berkeley for a Top Dog. IMHO the BEST hot dog you can buy (and yes, that includes Nathan's at Coney Island). No need for condiments, these dogs have all the bark and bite you want. My wife just got back a couple of days ago with a care package from Top Dog. While I have been writing glowingly of the other foods we bought while in Tulsa to pick her up, the Top Dogs were what I looked forward to most. Give it a whirl you'll be glad you did.

If you want to try another bay area standard go to Oakland and buy a box of Millers all beef. You have to go the plant to get tehm in a 5 pound box, but don't worry, have a small shindig, they'll b gone toot suite! These are perfect grill dogs. Next time the wife goes out to the bay, I'm gonna have to remind her to pick up some of those too!!!!!!

BTW How can you possibly call Pink's a real hot dog stand. They have atrocious dogs, that are over priced and just plain nasty.

edited by Moderator

quote:

Originally posted by bill voss

hey skip, welcome. Are you moving back to New Orleans? I don't associate hot dogs and New Orleans.

Then you must not have read A Confederacy of Dunces!

The guy who ran Lucky Dogs wrote a memoir a while back, Managing Ignatius: The Lunacy of Lucky Dogs and Life In New Orleans. Basically, his only complaint with Dunces is that real life at Lucky Dogs was in fact even weirder than Toole portrays it in the book!

Neat. I'll have to find a copy. KC was just never sausage central. Most of my interest in things tubular has come from reading the experiences contained in this site.

I've eaten at both Pink's (LA) and Top Dog (Berkeley). I can say, without hesitation, that Pink's has a walloping edge over the inferior Top Dog, there's just something about eating a hot dog on a street corner in LA, that Berkeley consuming can't match. Besides Top Dog doesn't even make there own meat products and any so called hot dog joint that sells Veggie dogs made of Tofu and several other (yuck) chicken sausages don't deserve a second glance....not from me anyway Like I said above "California does not like hot dogs" and that's to bad for me.
IMHO sitting next to Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, and Jane Fonda eating a tofu dog smothered in bean sprouts and Belgium endive is not what I would call the All American Hot Dog joint.........................
Thanks anyway Mistertawny ........................... that's why they make vanilla and chocolate
...........Frank C.

edited by Moderator

quote:

Originally posted by tmiles

and what kind of hotdogs would Michael have sold? That could be a whole new book. Any RF/SF fans here? Let us know when you set up. I would not be surprised if a few RF fans dropped by.

I'd have sold Rosseler's.

SKIP:

Welcome to the Road Food Message board!

Good to see ya.

Thanks for the great email.(half Book 1/2 email)

Was gone for the past few days. Will respond when I get a few moments.

Rascal

Don't eat at the one in Berkeley, perhaps you could try the TD's in Oakland or Pleasant Hill. I didn't know geographical location, or political persuasion had anything to do with the quality of the dog either. Matter of fact you'd know after being there that TD is an Oasis in Berkeley of Ayn Rynd libertarian thinking as opposed to the rest ot the People'e Republic of Berkeley.

While they do offer the "weinie" a meatless dog (almost a requirement to stay in Business in Northern California these days), they don't sell many of them, and often make fun of the tofu mentality. The other dogs are pretty straight forward, Calabrese, hot link, Kielbasa, Bratwurst, Linguiça, Bockwurst and a couple of fowl dogs, that surprisingly the chicken apple is pretty damn good.
TD sell's several companies dogs, looking for the best in areas they can't afford to compete making their own. But as far as the Top itself, that is a company made dog, that is still perfect without any dressing up, something only a few dogs can match.

Unlike Pink's, TD doesn't sell burgers, fries or much more than dogs, soda, chips and turnovers. Kinda like an expanded cart. You certainly can't say the freak quoitent in LA, even Hollyweird is any higher than in Bezerkely, can you? I mean a bunch of Hare Krishna's ordering their dogs while talking to the Hells Angels sitting outside on their bikes having a leisurely lunch, while cute frosh co-eds are getting thier bearings. Yep, I do miss Berkeley

Edited by Moderator

hey Mister T, how did you pick Southeast Kansas for your escape from the Bay Area?
A brother and sister I knew from Ashland moved back there to a Garland, a tiny town on the Missouri border(They had relatives there) and told of buying a whole building for $500.00. You're near a lot of places, that's for sure. Have you gone over to Sedan, where Bill Kurtis grew up and has invested in?
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by bill voss

hey Mister T, how did you pick Southeast Kansas for your escape from the Bay Area?
A brother and sister I knew from Ashland moved back there to a Garland, a tiny town on the Missouri border(They had relatives there) and told of buying a whole building for $500.00. You're near a lot of places, that's for sure. Have you gone over to Sedan, where Bill Kurtis grew up and has invested in?
Bill

Well my wife and kids had lived in the bay area our whole lives. In 2000 my youngest was getting ready to head to high school, and even though her older 2 siblings attended high school there, the school had, in 2 years slid down hill precipitously. We were living with my Dad who was very ill, and even though we had considered buying his place (needing $80 to $100K worth of work), for $325K, it just wouldn't give us the lifestyle, nor the life we wanted. My wife put me on a mission.... Find a place with an income (apartments, multiple houses, etc.), with tremendous schools, and a quiet pace of life. Off to the internet I went.

We settled on Oswego, after looking into the high school (my daughter who graduated this year was in the largest grad class ever, 26 kids), the quality of life, and just all around a place we could settle on. I will say the high school here has about 160 or so students, and about 30 teachers, and aides. Pretty good, eh? We bought an 8 unit apartment building for $80K that grosses aout $1700 a month (after expenses it's much more modest, but it pays the basic bills and mortgage). Our unit in the building is on the top floor, and is around 4K square ft. with 6 bedrooms, 2.5 baths. It needed some fixing up. But still pretty decent compared to the bay area.

I have been up to Sedan and looked around. Nice place too. If I had the money I think he's on the right track. There is so much history here in SE Kansas it amazes me. There is a lot of good food and drink here too. Just going to take me a while to get around to writing about them. Being a coastal snob most of my life really made me blind to the cool experiences and cuisine avaialable.

I travel a lot because I sell vintage comics and toys at shows across the country. (On ebay too). So I may see a bit more road food than many. During my busy season I'm on the road 20 out of 28 weeks. Beleive me I know what a Motel 6 and Red Roof Inn look like.

Where ever I go though, the first thing I do after getting settled in, if the city is big enough is hop on a bus and look around. You can ask questions and really get the feel of the area that way. I have also found some pretty good eating spots that way too.

If you are in the area feel free to shoot me a line, and I would be glad to recommend some good joints. No good red hots around here though. I do miss that about the bay area, Miller's and Top Dog.

I grew up in Kansas suburbs of KC, but have relatives in Mo. Ok., Tx, and Ks. My nephews went to Emporia and Pittsburg. The younger, Sean, is a teacher in ElDorado, We 'll take you up on that if our planned grand tour of the plains 2005 happens. Back to Omaha & KC, then down to Texas to explore family roots.
Bill

I just returned from LA and did try the Pink's place. Priding myself in knowing a good dog, since I am from Buffalo, the dogs were so so .. did not have a great snap to them and they put way too much toppings on your dog - perhaps to cover the taste of the dog.

Even though they are so so, it was a fun experience. Piss poor fries and onion rings ...

Wished I had knew of the other places.

Cindy

I agree with you Buffalo, and the rest of the East coast do know DOGS.......... Wouldn't you love for Doggie Dogg to have a taste of a TED'S dog on Sheridan Dr.?
Hot Dogs ............ you put mustered on them not the kitchen sink. (preferably Webers Mustard)
"don't give me that baloney give me Wadinski's" .......or Redlinski's ...or Sahlen's

I lived in the (East) San Fernando Valley in the early-mid 80s and I can't even remember eating a hot dog out except for at Tail O'The Pup. And I can't remember what it tasted like, and it really was only for the Kodak moment. What I knew of Pink's and Oki Dog was that "famous people ate there". I just never cared enough to find out whether that was true. We never even ate at Cupid's.

So far in my experience, I think New Jersey has the best hot dogs. I also liked the hot dogs at Levis' and Lenny's in Philly when I was a kid. My boyfriend's from Chicago, though, and he says that they have the best.

fpcz (I'm sorry, I forget the rest of the letters in your name since this reply window is open) you're right about putting all that slop on hotdogs. I only put mustard and ketchup and at home I put BBQ sauce on it. I can't even see putting cheese on them (bacon yeah, if it's a Texas Tommy, like my mom did). But this is me; I'm a picky eater. When my boyfriend and I went to two places in Long Branch here in NJ (which were both great!), he had cheese put on both and relish and all kinds of stuff. Onions, all that. I would never have taken a bite of his hot dog, even if it meant a 6 kt diamond ring. I mean it! I have to taste it and I don't like the other stuff. I was once called a purist as a young teen before I really knew what it meant. Now I know I really must be.

Not to be pedantic, Steve, but since you were, I will be, too. The proper use of the elipsis (sic) is ... in the middle of a sentence and .... at the end of a sentence.

Back to hot dogs....

I second the opinions of Shaynas Mom and fpczyz about the superiority of hot dogs in New Jersey and Connecticut. Dogg, you really ought to make a trip to Jersey if you're serious about good hot dogs. I'm a bare bones guy myself who usually enjoys just mustard on my dogs. Occasionally I'll have some of the unique relish served at Rutt's Hut or some Texas Weiner style chili. But, as I like to say, if you don't start with a quality dog, it doesn't matter what you do to it.

Here in Jersey, we have a big variety of hot dog styles including Italian Style Hot Dogs (ever heard of these?) grilled kosher style all beef, "dirty water dogs", deep fried rippers, German style beef and pork, and Texas Weiners. And we use quality hot dogs that have more flavor than anything out west. I know people who moved out there who say nothing there compares with what we have in Jersey and Connecticut. The only place considered anywhere near what we have in terms of quality is Top Dog. For cooking at home, we have superior brands like Best, (N.J. not Chicago), Thumann's (which may be the best tasting dog made), Sabrett, Boars Head (which is close to being distributed nationally) Hummels, Grote & Weigel, Mucke's, and many German style butcher shops which make their own.

I'm also not crazy about Chicago style hot dogs. Too much crap on them which takes away from the dog itself. The Vienna beef frank is ok, but not as flavorful as I would like a beef dog to be. I once had a Chicago style hot dog next to one with just the Vienna frank with mustard only. I preferred the one with just mustard.

Anyway, if you head out this way, contact me and I will give you suggestions, addresses, and directions to these places. Your hot dog eating experiences aren't complete until you've tried hot dogs in the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut area.

quote:

Originally posted by John Fox

I'm also not crazy about Chicago style hot dogs. Too much crap on them which takes away from the dog itself. The Vienna beef frank is ok, but not as flavorful as I would like a beef dog to be. I once had a Chicago style hot dog next to one with just the Vienna frank with mustard only. I preferred the one with just mustard.

John,
Gene & Judes is the perfect example of a high volume, excellent hot dog stand in Chicago. They use a natural casing 10/1 Vienna Beef dog that is minimally dressed with mustard, onions, relish, and sport peppers. No pickles, no tomato, no celery salt, on a plain bun-no poppy seeds. I've always eaten my dogs with only mustard or mustard, relish, and onions. I favor the taste of the Vienna Beef natural casing dogs with mustard. One weekend, we sold the exact same dog as Gene & Judes at our cart for 1.50/tax included. Needless to say, it was a smashing success and we broke all dog record sales. BTW, my second favorite hot dogs are the natural casing Boar's Head and natural casing all beef Usinger. Unfortunately, the midwest has yet to brand with Boar's Head while the Usinger is made in Milwaukee and known throughout the midwest. BTW, one day, I'm going to covert you when you try a nautural casing Vienna Beef Polish.

Chicagostyledog,

I've always thought that if I was in Chicago, I would prefer a hot dog from a place like Gene & Judes. I like a natural casing beef dog with the minimum toppings. The only place where I've sampled a Chicago hot dog is a place in New York called Danny Meyer's. I've also had the Vienna dog from a cart in South Jersey, but I wouldn't consider their dog to be authentic. I'm only referring to my experience at Danny Meyer's because the Chicago Tribune did an article about them and declared the dog to be authentic. Everything from Chicago and prepared the usual way. Not having been to Chicago, I figured I could trust their review. I also believe that I would like what Fluky's and other places serve; the chardog. I know that you've mentioned this and the char polish, which I have yet to try. But just because I'm not a fan of the Chicago dog with all the toppings (tomatoes?!) doesn't mean that it isn't good. I know of at least 2 people from my area of New Jersey that have tried the dogs that I've mentioned here many times who have since moved to Chicago and much prefer the Chicago dog. And there's something to be said for their popularity in Chicago and other places that serve them.

I agree with you about Usinger's and Boars Head. My favorite all beef dogs are Usinger's, Boars Head, and Best's. I just bought a pack of Boar's Head 2 days ago and am awaiting my next shipment of Usinger's later in the week. I have some Sabrett's and Best's, and will be doing a comparison soon.

John and CSD and those who can post without rankor, I apologize for this Moderator's Interuption.

Not being a major Hot Dog Fan I haven't checked out this thread for awhile. I am still not much of a Hot Dog Fan, But I will issue a courtesy warning to those of you who seem to enjoy baiting and flaming others on this thread. It is possible to describe the quality of a particular region/location's products without the personal digs and nasty comments AND I suggest you consider the feelings of others before you post a low class insult to them and force the Moderators to delete the whole freaking topic to stop the comments.

OK I edited a few sentences..and struck out a couple of comments...and even deleted two posts. If you are missing some written words that mean a lot to you ask, and I'll email the comments back , if you catch me before I turn this machine off tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent Kulman

Not to be pedantic, Steve, but since you were, I will be, too. The proper use of the elipsis (sic) is ... in the middle of a sentence and .... at the end of a sentence. Back to hot dogs....

Brent,
Elipsis? Solar or lunar?
Half Here, Ort. Carlton in The Astronomy Domine That Is Athens, Georgia....