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 Struggling with the city.

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hotsammies

  • Total Posts: 21
  • Joined: 4/30/2007
  • Location: Madison, WI
Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 11:18 AM (permalink)
Bye all...
 
#1
    pdxyyz

    • Total Posts: 411
    • Joined: 5/30/2003
    • Location: not here, OR
    RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 12:08 PM (permalink)
    I work supporting small business owners so yours is not a new situation.

    This is going to sound harsh, but here's a few questions I have for you and maybe you should have asked yourself these questions as part of your business plan.

    1. What help is provided by the local municipality for new businesses?

    2. If none is available do I want to open a business there?

    3. What size vending carts can I use ? (answer in the local bylaws)

    3. What do I have to do to get a street vending license? (answer in the local bylaws)

    4. How many carts can a street vendor run? (answer in the local bylaws)

    5. What should I do if I don't understand the bylaws? (hire a lawyer)

    6. What should I do if I don't get straight answers from the local legislators? (get a copy of the local bylaws and learn the rules)

    The problem is not the municipality, the problem is that you didn't do your homework and you're now paying the price.
     
    #2
      texgrill

      • Total Posts: 302
      • Joined: 11/14/2005
      • Location: Pasadena, TX
      RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 1:09 PM (permalink)
      Hot sammies

      Yeah I have to agree with pdx. I have dealt with many local, state, and county regulations over the past 3 years I have been a vendor here in Texas.

      You have to research these regulations prior to buying your cart. Different municipalities within the same county will all have different ordinances. You have found this out after purchasing your cart. The April 1st ordinance sounds unusual too me here in Texas, however it must be related to the with long winters there in Wisconsin.

      Maybe chicago style will have a few comments since he in Wisconsin also.

      Ronnie
      Texgrill
       
      #3
        hotsammies

        • Total Posts: 21
        • Joined: 4/30/2007
        • Location: Madison, WI
        RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 1:41 PM (permalink)
        Bye all...
         
        #4
          hotsammies

          • Total Posts: 21
          • Joined: 4/30/2007
          • Location: Madison, WI
          RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 3:15 PM (permalink)
          Bye all...
           
          #5
            hotsammies

            • Total Posts: 21
            • Joined: 4/30/2007
            • Location: Madison, WI
            RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 3:56 PM (permalink)
            Bye all...
             
            #6
              Oneiron339

              • Total Posts: 2075
              • Joined: 2/13/2002
              • Location: Marietta, GA
              RE: Struggling with the city. Fri, 09/28/07 4:08 PM (permalink)
              This is government you're dealing with - that's the biggest problem.

              And so many people want our government to handle our health care.
               
              #7
                texgrill

                • Total Posts: 302
                • Joined: 11/14/2005
                • Location: Pasadena, TX
                RE: Struggling with the city. Sat, 09/29/07 8:55 AM (permalink)
                Pdx

                Could you explain some of the terms here? I am in Texas and we don't use the terms aldermen or varinances.

                I do know about committees and city councils. I had to go before both to locate my cart at a Home Depot here in the Houston area.

                Thanks
                Ronnie
                 
                #8
                  Dr of BBQ

                  • Total Posts: 3158
                  • Joined: 10/11/2004
                  • Location: Springfield, IL
                  • Roadfood Insider
                  RE: Struggling with the city. Sat, 09/29/07 9:40 AM (permalink)
                  I have been through all of that and more, please see my post How to find a good location and more for a recent update. And I agree it makes you mad and it’s just not fair. There are far to many middle or close to retirement-aged bureaucrats that if the truth be known are little Hitler types. They will lie to you out of ignorance, and then they will change their story if forced with evidence or confrontation of the basic current ordinances.
                  Jack@DrofBBQ.com
                   
                  #9
                    hotsammies

                    • Total Posts: 21
                    • Joined: 4/30/2007
                    • Location: Madison, WI
                    RE: Struggling with the city. Wed, 10/17/07 2:04 PM (permalink)
                    Bye all...
                     
                    #10
                      hotsammies

                      • Total Posts: 21
                      • Joined: 4/30/2007
                      • Location: Madison, WI
                      RE: Struggling with the city. Wed, 10/17/07 8:49 PM (permalink)
                      h
                       
                      #11
                        hotsammies

                        • Total Posts: 21
                        • Joined: 4/30/2007
                        • Location: Madison, WI
                        RE: Struggling with the city. Wed, 10/17/07 9:03 PM (permalink)
                        Bye all...
                         
                        #12
                          kensandyeggo

                          • Total Posts: 567
                          • Joined: 6/3/2007
                          • Location: Charlotte, NC
                          RE: Struggling with the city. Sun, 10/21/07 12:20 PM (permalink)
                          We have a similar situation here in Charlotte. The city has turned over the Uptown area to a group called Center City Partners. They control everything from parades, civic celebrations, street fairs and of course the vending carts. We have an inline Vienna joint and decided to add a cart to place on the street and work the Panther football games.

                          I read all the regulations, especially the one that says that the assignment season runs from March to March and assignments are made after CCP approves the cart and then sends it to the city manager's office for final approval. Sites previously assigned can stay assigned as long as the vendor has followed the rules and paid their $150 per year.

                          The rules also say that if an application is received after March, the city manager can approve the permit and empty sites will be assigned on a first-come-first-served basis. I checked the push-cart section, we ordered a cart and it was inspected and passed by the Health Department. Sounds like we're ready to go, huh?

                          I contact CCP to send in our permit and am told that they only accept the apps in March, (contrary to what the rules say). Also, the city manager has 45 days to approve or disapprove the app. That means that we could have to wait until May for final approval.

                          Of course the cart program manager at CCP is about as easy to contact as Osama Bin Laden. I sent some e-mails and left several voice mails regarding this, to the point I'm just ignored now. I was told to just find a spot on private property for our cart until next March or whenever. Ever try to find a decent spot on private property in a large city's Uptown (downtown) area? By the way, the carts are only allowed on Tryon street for about 8 blocks and a cross street, Trade, for 2 blocks.

                          So, do I go directly to the city manager's office and raise hell and risk getting the folks at CCP pissed off at me and throwing up insurmountable roadblocks and playing the delay game to my ever getting a decent spot? I did work out something with a parking lot for the remaining Panther games (6), but that's about it as of now.

                          Bank of America has a plaza they allow vendors to use, but they don't really know if the spot I requested is handled by their building manager or CCP, according to the receptionist. They wouldn't give me the name of the building manager because that's "confidential information." My request and phone number would be passed on to the building manager and I'll be contacted shortly (that was 2 weeks ago).

                          Appears that people that receive a government or guaranteed paycheck and deal with the public could care less about someone trying to make a living. CCP could easily accept my application and forward it to the city manager's office as the rules say, but because they don't feel like dealing with it right now, they want to put me off to March and possibly May. We'd accept even a crappy spot to make a few bucks for awhile. Even have a person lined up willing to work the cart.

                          The other bad thing about this system is that once a vendor has a good spot, there are no requirements as to how often it has to be used, except if they don't show up for 30 days, they can lose their spot (no one keeps track). So consequently, there are great spots that are reserved for $150 per year and are hardly or never used, one right on the central corner of the Uptown area.

                          So, we'll keep plugging away to find a site on private property somewhere. Oh yea, I almost forgot. The vendor manager at CCP told me earlier that I could find a spot that someone may share with me until March. I found 2 vendors willing to graciously let me use their spot occasionally when they're not there. The vendor manager says that's fine, but now says I can't do it until I have their permit which I can't apply for until March! Talk about double-speak. Humbug.
                           
                          #13
                            hotsammies

                            • Total Posts: 21
                            • Joined: 4/30/2007
                            • Location: Madison, WI
                            RE: Struggling with the city. Tue, 10/23/07 9:37 AM (permalink)
                            Start writing letters explaining your position. Emails are even more effective, because it's easy for people to pass the buck. Something they do quite eagerly. Start collecting names and contact dates and log everything. That way, when you are called to task you will have answers that hold people accountable for their action/inactions. A little pressure in the right place works wonders too. Find out supervisor names and start to email them when things stall. Most importantly, keep calm, collect and be polite. Gov't officials are constantly barraged with irate citizens and I've found that making friends with officials is much better than making enemies. You may even find a few you like. You'll get much further! If that won't work pull the attorney card. Usually a mention of that (last resort) gets some quick action if you are legitimate in your claim...Good luck, keep plugging away.
                             
                            #14
                              kensandyeggo

                              • Total Posts: 567
                              • Joined: 6/3/2007
                              • Location: Charlotte, NC
                              RE: Struggling with the city. Tue, 10/23/07 6:36 PM (permalink)
                              We'll try that. Thanks.
                               
                              #15
                                hotsammies

                                • Total Posts: 21
                                • Joined: 4/30/2007
                                • Location: Madison, WI
                                RE: Struggling with the city. Wed, 10/24/07 1:22 AM (permalink)
                                So I'm done with the forum. I thought there would be some honest input and debate. This ahole thats been blabbering on this post is actually from Madison (wonder who he is). Not very forthcoming. More than a few roadfooders have emailed me and called me to tip me off that this guy is a fraud. I'm hoping he'll stop in to say hi...
                                 
                                #16
                                  dlcampan

                                  • Total Posts: 38
                                  • Joined: 6/20/2007
                                  • Location: Lake Worth, FL
                                  RE: Struggling with the city. Sat, 10/27/07 9:44 AM (permalink)
                                  So I don't make the same mistakes and put the cart before the horse (no pun intended), where do I start?

                                  Permits and what else do I need to research?

                                  Thanks.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    kensandyeggo

                                    • Total Posts: 567
                                    • Joined: 6/3/2007
                                    • Location: Charlotte, NC
                                    RE: Struggling with the city. Sat, 10/27/07 11:28 AM (permalink)
                                    Also, check with any cities, towns, counties, etc. where you may be setting up. As an example, the whole county of Mecklenburg, NC (which includes Charlotte) uses the State's regulations. So in my case, I only have to be concerned about one set of standards. I would guess that the rest of NC also defers to these regs, but I am not positive, so wherever you are, find out whose regs they use, their own or the State's or County's. May save you some time.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      davebugg

                                      • Total Posts: 188
                                      • Joined: 2/27/2007
                                      • Location: East Wenatchee, WA
                                      RE: Struggling with the city. Sat, 10/27/07 4:26 PM (permalink)
                                      Put everything you need to do in a backwards planning format. You are asking yourself, 'By what date do I need to have a specific item completed in order to open on a specific date. Start with the date you are going to open, and work backwards from there.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        divefl

                                        • Total Posts: 1671
                                        • Joined: 3/23/2007
                                        • Location: washington, DC
                                        RE: Struggling with the city. Thu, 11/8/07 4:27 PM (permalink)
                                        I would probably let it go, rather than bringing the thread back to the top, if you don't want people to see it. I think we all took the statements to be an opinion and there is no damage in a legal sense. You're not posting under your real name.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          workboy7

                                          • Total Posts: 28
                                          • Joined: 5/26/2006
                                          • Location: madison, WI
                                          RE: Struggling with the city. Tue, 11/13/07 9:52 PM (permalink)
                                          Damn,...I missed it I guess,......
                                           
                                          #21
                                            Poverty Pete

                                            • Total Posts: 1969
                                            • Joined: 8/16/2003
                                            • Location: Nashville, TN
                                            RE: Struggling with the city. Tue, 11/13/07 9:55 PM (permalink)
                                            bye sammy
                                             
                                            #22
                                              dlcampan

                                              • Total Posts: 38
                                              • Joined: 6/20/2007
                                              • Location: Lake Worth, FL
                                              RE: Struggling with the city. Wed, 06/4/08 10:05 AM (permalink)
                                              I don't want to end up in the same boat. Looking to buy a cart and have questions...

                                              Can I email you directly?


                                              quote:
                                              Originally posted by pdxyyz

                                              I work supporting small business owners so yours is not a new situation.

                                              This is going to sound harsh, but here's a few questions I have for you and maybe you should have asked yourself these questions as part of your business plan.

                                              1. What help is provided by the local municipality for new businesses?

                                              2. If none is available do I want to open a business there?

                                              3. What size vending carts can I use ? (answer in the local bylaws)

                                              3. What do I have to do to get a street vending license? (answer in the local bylaws)

                                              4. How many carts can a street vendor run? (answer in the local bylaws)

                                              5. What should I do if I don't understand the bylaws? (hire a lawyer)

                                              6. What should I do if I don't get straight answers from the local legislators? (get a copy of the local bylaws and learn the rules)

                                              The problem is not the municipality, the problem is that you didn't do your homework and you're now paying the price.
                                               
                                              #23
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