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 Sturgeon and Turbot

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steveindurham

  • Total Posts: 138
  • Joined: 6/3/2004
  • Location: durham, NC
Sturgeon and Turbot Fri, 11/4/05 11:14 AM (permalink)
What does everyone know about these 2 type of fish? I'm going to a restaurant later this month and these 2 fish are on the menu? What do these fish taste like? Are they recommended?
 
#1
    seafarer john

    RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Sat, 11/5/05 10:14 AM (permalink)
    Both of those entrees surprise me. Turbot is a European flatfish - a lot like sole, and it is delicious. but I dont think I've ever seen it on a menu here in the US - although I'm sure it is on menus in some four star restaurants.

    I've neveer seen sturgeon on a menyy except as smoked fish in a kosher place. I'll take James Beard's word for it- he says it is delicious and he specially recommends the "lake"variety.

    I hope you order the sturgeon so you can let us all know how you liked it.

    Cheers, John
     
    #2
      Willly

      • Total Posts: 396
      • Joined: 7/26/2002
      • Location: Westport, CT
      RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Sat, 11/5/05 11:56 AM (permalink)
      My experience with fresh sturgeon is positive. I've had it at Firebird, and I think and Jean Georges. It's a dense, not quite flakey fish with a very mild taste. Both times it was served with some kind of beurre blanc and a dollop of caviar.

      Fresh turbot is very good as well -- think halibut+sole.
       
      #3
        tmiles

        • Total Posts: 1908
        • Joined: 10/1/2004
        • Location: Millbury, MA
        RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Sun, 11/6/05 3:11 PM (permalink)
        I've learned a lot in this thread so far. To add, what is Sable? I see it sometimes with the smoked salmon.
         
        #4
          saps

          • Total Posts: 1551
          • Joined: 8/18/2003
          • Location: wheaton, IL
          RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Sun, 11/6/05 3:45 PM (permalink)
          Columbia River sturgeon from the pacific northwest is one of the best fish that I have ever eaten. Don't know much about turbot, however.
           
          #5
            CCJPO

            • Total Posts: 497
            • Joined: 4/20/2003
            • Location: Fallon, NV
            RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Sun, 11/6/05 4:41 PM (permalink)
            Turbot is a mild, white, flat fish - think flavor and texture of halibut or sole. The "real" stuff comes from Europe. A relative of the turbot is caught in the pacific northwest and is also great eating.( this iswhat most americansget when they see turbot in the store)

            As an aside what much of the US thinks as turbot, was actually considered a trash fish, as was monkfish and orange roughy, back in the early 70's.As such for a starving college student it made great eating for 25 to 35 cents a pound.

            Sturgeon is also great eating, it is a dense fish, oily, flavorful - it is great smoked.

            Sable comes from sablefish, also a firm, oily fish that takes well to smoking. smoked sable can be found in lots of deli's. Some folks in the N.W. call them cod, but they are not in the same family
             
            #6
              rjb

              • Total Posts: 451
              • Joined: 12/15/2003
              • Location: Bronxville, NY
              RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 2:55 PM (permalink)
              Real English Channel turbot is one of the world's great fishes. Generally very expensive, but worth it if fresh and prepared well. Firmer texture and more flavor than sole. Interesting looking too -- the fish (a flatfish like flounder & sole) is almost perfectly square, with the head forming one corner & the tail the oppposite.

              Fresh sturgeon (aka black cod to west coasters) I find overly gelatinous and oily in the manner of Chilean sea bass (aka Patagonian toothfish). Those same qualities, however, make it fabulous when smoked & sliced thin.
               
              #7
                Rusty246

                • Total Posts: 2413
                • Joined: 7/15/2003
                • Location: Newberry, FL
                RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 4:08 PM (permalink)
                I can't get past the looks of sturgeon much less think about eating one. Almost prehistoric.......
                 
                #8
                  Sundancer7

                  RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 4:26 PM (permalink)
                  We have sturgeon in the Tennessee River in front of my house. To catch them, they have to snag them as they do not seem to enjoy bait.

                  Unfortunaely they only catch them for their roe. They split the female into and capsure the eggs. She dies and also the eggs do also.

                  I understand that there are some very large ones in the lake/river. I have never seen one but I read about them very frequently.

                  They have recently began stocking them in the river. I also understand that it takes them many years to reach the size where they began to produce roe.

                  Paul E. Smith
                  Knoxville, TN
                   
                  #9
                    Scallion1

                    • Total Posts: 418
                    • Joined: 7/20/2004
                    • Location: Yonkers, NY
                    RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 5:51 PM (permalink)
                    quote:
                    Originally posted by seafarer john

                    Both of those entrees surprise me. Turbot is a European flatfish - a lot like sole, and it is delicious. but I dont think I've ever seen it on a menu here in the US - although I'm sure it is on menus in some four star restaurants.

                    I've neveer seen sturgeon on a menyy except as smoked fish in a kosher place. I'll take James Beard's word for it- he says it is delicious and he specially recommends the "lake"variety.

                    I hope you order the sturgeon so you can let us all know how you liked it.

                    Cheers, John


                    John,
                    You'd think so, for sure, because any good "appetizing" store has smoked sturgeon. It's madly expensive, and unbelievably delicious. But if you see it in such a store, the store ain't kosher. Why, you ask? Because, according to the Chicago Rabbinical Council,


                    "Fish which have fins and scales are kosher. Fish which only have fins are not kosher. Of the four types of scales, clenoid, cycloid, ganoid and placoid, only clenoid and cycloid scales are valid according to the Torah. Gandoid is the type found on sturgeon and placoid is found on shark.

                    The scales must be true scales that can be removed without damaging the skin of the fish. As it says in the Torah "These you may eat of the fish, all that have fins and scales..." Bony tubercles and plate or thorn like scales that can be removed only by removing part of the skin are not considered scales in this context. Some fish that have such scales, such as eels, lumpfish, shark, sturgeon, and swordfish, are not kosher."

                    So there. We are nothing if not splitters of the finest of hairs.

                    As for sable, or sable plate as it's sometimes called, it's smoked black cod. I don't think it's related to the "real" cod, judging by the nature of the flesh, but I have no authority to cite on this.

                    It's phenomenal stuff, if you're a fan of the whole genre of smoked fish, and shares the same qualities as top-level smoked salmon and sturgeon: subtle, salty, smoky taste and silky, oily texture. To me - but then I'm very New York Jewish when it comes to cuisine - it's as good as it gets. I'll take it over truffles or caviar any time. Maybe not XXX beluga, but that has become a purely academic argument.

                    Good pickled herring in cream sauce is nothing to sneer at either, with a nice fresh bialy.
                     
                    #10
                      Scallion1

                      • Total Posts: 418
                      • Joined: 7/20/2004
                      • Location: Yonkers, NY
                      RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 5:53 PM (permalink)
                      Having a tough day keeping my brain connected.

                      I should say that you're probably not going to encounter either fish in the smoked format.

                      BTW, Nobu has made a black cod dish one of his signature items. Never had it, but friends tell me it's a real experience.
                       
                      #11
                        poundpod

                        RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 7:43 PM (permalink)
                        The question of whether Sturgeon is kosher is actually subject to debate within the sects of Judaism which recognize kosher laws as binding. The Conservative Movement recognizes Sturgeon as kosher, because it has scales throughout its body when young. The Orthodox Movement does not.

                        Just a clarification.
                         
                        #12
                          Scallion1

                          • Total Posts: 418
                          • Joined: 7/20/2004
                          • Location: Yonkers, NY
                          RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Mon, 11/7/05 11:01 PM (permalink)
                          quote:
                          Originally posted by poundpod

                          The question of whether Sturgeon is kosher is actually subject to debate within the sects of Judaism which recognize kosher laws as binding. The Conservative Movement recognizes Sturgeon as kosher, because it has scales throughout its body when young. The Orthodox Movement does not.

                          Just a clarification.

                          I certainly can't defend this position; I merely wanted to illustrate a point. My interest, my Judaism notwithstanding, is primarily gustatory.

                          However, I'd have to say that in matters of Kashruth I'd be much more inclined to heed the Orthodox rebbes than the Conservative ones. But you're right: some Conservative authorities will accept sturgeon. Swordfish too.

                          Personally, I grew up on ham sandwiches. And Oreos.
                           
                          #13
                            seafarer john

                            RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Tue, 11/8/05 12:58 PM (permalink)
                            Thanks for the briefs on kosher fish- fascinating. As for myself, in my religion ( a worldwide congregation of me alone) I allow myself to eat anything anyone else has safely eaten - without reference to anything more esoteric than a cookbook.

                            Cheers, John
                             
                            #14
                              Scallion1

                              • Total Posts: 418
                              • Joined: 7/20/2004
                              • Location: Yonkers, NY
                              RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Tue, 11/8/05 1:03 PM (permalink)
                              Ha! after all the grief I've gotten around here just for offering my opinions about food, I'd rather walk on hot coals than enter into the area of religion. The kosher fish citations were offered strictly as information.

                              Bill
                               
                              #15
                                howard8

                                • Total Posts: 355
                                • Joined: 5/12/2003
                                • Location: randolph, NJ
                                RE: Sturgeon and Turbot Wed, 11/9/05 2:08 PM (permalink)
                                I find turbot much more flavorful than flounder, which for me many times
                                is rather bland.
                                As for sturgeon, I have eaten it many times smoked and it is outstanding
                                and someday I will try it fresh. I rarely see it on a menu or in a market
                                but its on my list.
                                 
                                #16
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