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 Surcharge for Kids

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nvb

  • Total Posts: 468
  • Joined: 12/5/2004
  • Location: dfhbgmhmy, MN
Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:18 PM (permalink)
I guess this is more of a bitch session than anything else, but....

I'm really getting tired of parents that bring their kids in and hand them a boat load of crackers and leave my restaurant in something that resembles a saltine snowstorm.

10 buck-a-kid clean up charge should do it.
 
#1
    Scallion1

    • Total Posts: 418
    • Joined: 7/20/2004
    • Location: Yonkers, NY
    RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:24 PM (permalink)
    I don't know anything about your place, Slick, but when I owned a restaurant with a lot of families in the clientele, I did pretty well with a kids' menu: mini-burgers, mozzarella sticks, fries, chicken fingers, etc. Not rocket science, for sure. But many parents refuse to buy adult portions for their kids, especially if your menu items aren't appealing to pre-teens.

    Of course, if the cheap bastards still won't co-operate, just stop giving them bread and crackers. You may lose them, but you're less likely to lose folks like me, who are repelled by ill-mannered kids and their equally rude parents. And, yes, I have two kids, now pretty much grown, who learned to behave in restaurants at a very early age, and now are completely at home in them (maybe more so than I am).
     
    #2
      Salustra

      • Total Posts: 510
      • Joined: 12/17/2004
      • Location: Escondido, CA
      RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:34 PM (permalink)
      Would this be waived for those families who have enough class not to be such slobs?
      I know - start charging for crackers and then "forget" to charge it to those who don't make a mess. And those who break the health code rules and bring in their own crackers/cheerios for junior have to pay the clean-up fee.
      (Respectfully submitted by a mom who cleaned up after her little ones and expected them NOT to make a mess just because someone else would take care of it.)
       
      #3
        Willly

        • Total Posts: 396
        • Joined: 7/26/2002
        • Location: Westport, CT
        RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:36 PM (permalink)
        We have a Mexican place in town that does great business with families. Kids six or under get a taco or enchillada (cheese, beef or chicken) and some rice free. The kids (7 & older) menu is reasonably priced at $5.95. Regular entrees are between $10-20 (I know, but it's Westport CT). The margin on the entrees and drinks will more than make up for giving a kid under six a meal with a <$1.00 food cost. Parents don't seem to abuse 6 & under rule and I don't think the owners feel like they're getting taken advantage of.

        Just my two cents, but if you create an environment where parents want to be welcomed BACK with their kids, you'll probably end up with better behaved likds and cleaner floors.
         
        #4
          wheregreggeats.com

          RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:37 PM (permalink)
          This reminds me of the rule of thumb from flying.

          Kids are fundamentally fine. It is parents with-kids and their lack of parenting skills that make the kids unbearable. (ie. Why bring kids to a restaurant where the menu items aren't appealing to kids in the first place? Seems selfish to me.)

          Selfish parents -- rude kids ... no surprise.

           
          #5
            Sundancer7

            RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 4:57 PM (permalink)
            There is a flip side to this. I have grandkids age 2 & 4. I take them out to dinner a couple of nights weekly. I do ny dead leavel best to keep them from disturbing other folks and most of the time I am successful but sometimes I cannot do that due to whatever. They do not make a huge mess but obviously they are not as neat as I would wish. They can turn things over and they can miss aim the spoon and they are not as good as they should be with volume control. I try to work with them to keep them neat and keep it down but I ain't always successful.

            When we go out there are generally seven of us. If some ones starts surcharging me, I will assure you that I will not return and if they make me feel uncomfortable, I assure you that I will not return.

            Perhaps all restaurants would prefer a mature customer group. That would be great except that ain't the general population. Check the stats to find out what % of your group/population/clientele has children.

            It is your call but when I got the grandkids, I will go where they are child friendly.

            Paul E. Smith
            Knoxville, TN
             
            #6
              Salustra

              • Total Posts: 510
              • Joined: 12/17/2004
              • Location: Escondido, CA
              RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 5:00 PM (permalink)
              I thought Slick was talking about the cracker mess created by little ones waiting for dinner to be served. I hope these parents aren't feeding their kids just crackers while mom and dad have a real meal. If so, we have bigger issues here.
              Never had a problem with my guys only wanting 'kid food'. They thought kid food was whatever was on their plate. In fact, if they could steal it off of Dad's plate - even better!
               
              #7
                Martha-Girl

                • Total Posts: 48
                • Joined: 6/4/2003
                • Location: Marietta, GA
                RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 5:25 PM (permalink)
                I think it's definitely a parent problem. I have said for years that having children made me a better tipper. If they left a mess I could not clean up (cracker debris on carpet, for example), I gave myself a surcharge: and the nicer and more accommodating the waitstaff had been to the kids, the better the tip. I luckily never had to deal with a noisy/crying child, but every time I entered a restaurant when the boys were younger, I was prepared to have to spend some time outside if there was a problem. If it was a grownup meal, I got a sitter.

                I had a waiter at one restaurant try to serve my then 4 & almost 7 year olds huge, adult sized glasses of lemonade. Well over 16 oz. I stopped him and told him if he did not want to mop up about half a gallon of lemonade he needed to either find lids, smaller glasses, or go back & pour the large glasses about 1/2 full. I like to think that when I "trained" that waiter on serving kids, I made a lot of other people's lives a little nicer (that restaurant did have kid's menus and billed itself as "family fare").
                 
                #8
                  nvb

                  • Total Posts: 468
                  • Joined: 12/5/2004
                  • Location: dfhbgmhmy, MN
                  RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 5:28 PM (permalink)
                  In my place, after you order and pay, you're pretty much on your own for the rest. We do bring you your meal, though. And because of the lack of service we don't expect tips and all the locals know that.

                  I do have a kids menu with mini corn dogs, chicken rings, grilled cheese and even a childs portion of BBQ. Think is, I have a self service bar area for drinks, condiments and burger fixings. This also includes crackers for salads.

                  What I don't have is bus staff available and most everyone knows it. Most guests are good about throwing the disposable away IN the trash center provided and leaving the hard dishes ON the trash center for us to clean up. I run the register and clean tables between guests that come in.

                  I serve a lot of families and most are really great, but a few do not order their kids anything. Instead, they grab a handful of crackers and put them in front of the child, thus leaving the place in a mess knowing that we don't have the personel to clean it up right away.

                  Paul, I'm not talking about the everyday kid and the causual clean up associated with them. I used the term "saltine snowstorm" for a reason. You're argument, though, might be a great thread.
                   
                  #9
                    Sundancer7

                    RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 6:14 PM (permalink)
                    Slick, My family which consist of my mother who is 83, my wife who is 63, myself who is 63, my daughter who is 37, my son in law who is 37 and my two grandchildren who are 2 & 4. We do dinner and lunch quite frequently. I have no idea what our average check is cause my wife pays it all but it is substantial.

                    We are pretty regular at Shoney's cause they are child friendly. As I stated in a previous post, we do our best to keep them on their best behavior but they get moody. If Shoney's or anyone else makes us feel uncomfortable, we will move our business.

                    To Shoney's defense, they are very tolerant to the negatives of our family visit. My guess is that they benefit several hundred dollars weekly from our visit.

                    Paul E. Smith
                    Knoxville, TN
                     
                    #10
                      wheregreggeats.com

                      RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 6:31 PM (permalink)
                      quote:
                      Originally posted by Sundancer7

                      Slick, My family which consist of my mother who is 83, my wife who is 63, myself who is 63, my daughter who is 37, my son in law who is 37 and my two grandchildren who are 2 & 4. We do dinner and lunch quite frequently. I have no idea what our average check is cause my wife pays it all but it is substantial.

                      To Shoney's defense, they are very tolerant to the negatives of our family visit. My guess is that they benefit several hundred dollars weekly from our visit.

                      Paul E. Smith
                      Knoxville, TN

                      Paul ... I more than suspect that you and your family are not a unit that drive servers to desperation.

                      Good grownups -- good kids.
                       
                      #11
                        mayor al

                        • Total Posts: 15059
                        • Joined: 8/20/2002
                        • Location: Louisville area, Southern Indiana
                        • Roadfood Insider
                        RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 6:53 PM (permalink)

                        I have shared meals with Paul many times in the past couple of years. I will testify that I have never seen him throw food, spill cracker-crumbs, or beat his companions with BBQ bones.
                        I have seen him use the Boarding House Reach a few times (at Hays Smokehouse where that is an accepted practice). I have also seen him spill a little beer trying to keep up with us younger guys (Tiki/Poverty Pete & Myself) as we drifted with the current on Beale Street in Memphis.
                        I think I would be comfortable sitting at a family table with him at almost any restaurant. Now as for my 20 grandkids....Perhaps some McDonalds gift coupons (mailed to them) would be a good solution!

                        To be serious for a moment. It is hard to blame the child if the parents either ignore or refuse to take any action to control the behavior of the child both before they ever show up in a restaurant, or while they are there. I have seen many examples of children who can make good choices and can behave with some patience and discipline during a meal 'out'. But those are not automatic behaviors, They are learned and developed with practice and by the example of the Parents.
                        It may offend the lazy parent for a server to suggest that the parent try to control an unrulely child to prevent a situation from getting worse. You may lose that customer, but if you don't establish some level of "order" you will lose the customers who have their meals disrupted.
                        Not a fun experience for an Owner/Manager, but important to the success of the operation.
                         
                        #12
                          dreamzpainter

                          • Total Posts: 1609
                          • Joined: 2/6/2005
                          • Location: jacksonville, FL
                          RE: Surcharge for Kids Thu, 06/30/05 7:23 PM (permalink)
                          all things are relevent I suppose, my parents and siblings where here recently for my daughters wedding. The whole tribe went to a local "diner", some how a straw paper fight broke out and quickly become a spitball battle, mom and the various wives were of course mortified, the younger neices and nephews amazed and dad just shook his head in resignation. (in defense we had been worshipping at the alter of Baccus most of the day) 18 ppl, 4 tables a $$$bartab and dad wouldnt show the bill but we did leave a great tip..guess some of us just never grow up
                           
                          #13
                            6star

                            • Total Posts: 4388
                            • Joined: 1/28/2004
                            • Location: West Peoria, IL
                            RE: Surcharge for Kids Sun, 03/12/06 5:10 PM (permalink)
                            Slick, I see that a restaurant in Germany may have the solution:

                            From Chuck Shepherd’s News of the Weird (3/12/2006):

                            In January, the owner of the Augsburg, Germany, restaurant La Boheme confirmed that while customers are welcome to bring their own dogs with them when they dine, "small children" are not allowed in the evenings. "After a hard day's work, (diners) want some peace," he told Agence France-Presse.
                            [Deutsche Welle-Agence France-Presse, 2-12-06]
                             
                            #14
                              MilwFoodlovers

                              • Total Posts: 3090
                              • Joined: 3/31/2001
                              • Location: Milwaukee, WI
                              RE: Surcharge for Kids Sun, 03/12/06 5:31 PM (permalink)
                              Slick, I would put up a little sign (perhaps with a hated smile at the end) that said just what you told us. i.e. "We're a small outfit and to keep costs down don't have a carpet shampooer after every diner, please help keep the area clean for the next person. Thanks-The mgt." or something similar.
                              If you still have a saltine strewed decor, I'd smile and tell them that while you love their business, you just can't afford to have them any longer as customers. Your regular customers I'd bet will be glad you 86'd 'em.
                               
                              #15
                                nvb

                                • Total Posts: 468
                                • Joined: 12/5/2004
                                • Location: dfhbgmhmy, MN
                                RE: Surcharge for Kids Sun, 03/12/06 8:03 PM (permalink)
                                quote:
                                Originally posted by 6star

                                Slick, I see that a restaurant in Germany may have the solution:

                                From Chuck Shepherd’s News of the Weird (3/12/2006):

                                In January, the owner of the Augsburg, Germany, restaurant La Boheme confirmed that while customers are welcome to bring their own dogs with them when they dine, "small children" are not allowed in the evenings. "After a hard day's work, (diners) want some peace," he told Agence France-Presse.
                                [Deutsche Welle-Agence France-Presse, 2-12-06]


                                And the dogs would clean up after themselves.
                                 
                                #16
                                  nvb

                                  • Total Posts: 468
                                  • Joined: 12/5/2004
                                  • Location: dfhbgmhmy, MN
                                  RE: Surcharge for Kids Sun, 03/12/06 8:16 PM (permalink)
                                  I've forgotten to tell you, but I've bought a Shark to help with those saltine snowstorms.

                                  http://www.drugstore.com/qxp80810_332828_sespider/shark/cordless_sweeper.htm
                                   
                                  #17
                                    roossy90

                                    • Total Posts: 6695
                                    • Joined: 8/15/2005
                                    • Location: columbus, oh
                                    RE: Surcharge for Kids Sun, 03/12/06 9:45 PM (permalink)
                                    At one place I worked, there was a couple that were regulars, and had a highchair aged baby at the time.
                                    Every time, when they would leave, she or he would pick up and clean up all around and the floor after the proverbial cracker and salt and sugar storm.
                                    It is the only time I have seen that.
                                    Sometimes, parents pick up the big chucks, but most of the time, they leave it.. Kinda gross, especially when the kids have flung spaghetti on the floor and the parents step in it and mash it into the carpet.
                                    I always ask myself, I wonder what their homes look like, or do they just assume that my tip is the cleaning ladies pay?
                                     
                                    #18
                                      John A

                                      • Total Posts: 4295
                                      • Joined: 1/27/2006
                                      • Location: Daytona Beach, FL
                                      RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 7:57 AM (permalink)
                                      My grand children are 6 (Lauren) and 9 (Alex). From birth they have always gone with us, as well as mom & dad, whenever we went out to eat. If they became a problem I would walk them outside until they settled down. Their parents have never raised their voices at them or struck them, they were taught from the get go to behave and respect other peoples presence. On one of our airplane trips Alex and I were seated with a young lady that he began conversing with. After a short while she asked him how old he was, he replied that he was five years old and she then told him that he had better manners than many adults she knew. To this day people compliment them on the good behavior and manners, they always say yes or no sir/mamm, please, and no/thank you. It's all in the way they are raised.

                                      John
                                       
                                      #19
                                        emhahn

                                        • Total Posts: 38
                                        • Joined: 5/6/2003
                                        • Location: Charlevoix, MI
                                        RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 9:44 AM (permalink)
                                        Roosy has the right idea.... Train the parents to clean up their kids' mess after they eat out at a restaurant!

                                        I've seen grown adults leave bigger messes than little kids in restaurants. Makes you wonder if they eat like that at home or social events....

                                        Eric
                                        www.RestaurantEdge.com
                                         
                                        #20
                                          Squidly

                                          • Total Posts: 64
                                          • Joined: 1/25/2006
                                          • Location: Dover, AR
                                          RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 10:24 AM (permalink)
                                          Many years ago I dated a woman who had a 5 year old son. She had joint custody of the boy and had him every other weekend so on one of her weekends I suggested the three of us go out to dinner. Big mistake. I knew he was a bit of a wild child but had no idea how wild. We went to a family restaurant where we found a short waiting line. While we waited for a table the boy was running around the restaurant, talking to the patrons, climbing around in empty booths, climbing under the tables of occupied booths, near misses with servers and bus boys, demanding money for the candy machine, and so on. His mother did absolutely nothing to stop it. Rather she ignored it. I thought he might settle down when we got a table. I was wrong. More of the same as well as destroying our table and grabbing food from his mother's plate. He tried to grab food from my plate and I stopped him. For this I received a dirty look from the mother and was accused of disliking her son. At this point the meal was over. I tipped an obscene amount of money, paid the bill, and we left. During the ride back to her house it was explained to me that since I didn't have any children I didn't understand how to raise them nor did I understand her situation. She didn't want to dicipline him because since she only had him periodically she wanted all their time together to be "fun" time. She didn't want the boy to dread looking forward to spending time with his mother. I hope the boy turned out alright. This was 20 years ago. It was the worst display of bad behavior I have ever seen in a restaurant and I was mortified.

                                          Maybe its just that I pay more attention now than I did years ago but it seems to me that children are a lot less supervised now than when I was a kid. This includes shopping centers, swimming parks, sporting events (high school basketball and Little League for me). I'm sure there are others. My kids are nearly all grown(the last is a high school senior)and were a pleasure to take out in public. Like others in this thread my kids and my wife and I frequently got compliments on their deportment. Am I just getting old and crabby?
                                           
                                          #21
                                            Salustra

                                            • Total Posts: 510
                                            • Joined: 12/17/2004
                                            • Location: Escondido, CA
                                            RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 11:28 AM (permalink)
                                            No Squidly, you're not old and crabby. (Well, maybe you are, but not based solely on your opinion expressed here )
                                            I, too, think comportment of children has deteriorated since I was a child. I distinctly remember the change in behavior among my brothers and myself when Mom would say, "Would you like to wait in the car with me while everyone else finishes their dinner?". While I never took her up on her "offer", my brothers did. Only once each, as I recall...

                                            I love it when my high school senior son tells me how embarassed he was by his friend's bad behavior and treatment of waitstaff. I just have to tell him, "Hon, your friend wasn't taught right. All you can do is be a good example for him; or find better behaved friends."
                                            Somehow, I don't think I have to specify, "And when the time comes, be sure my grandchildren know better!"
                                             
                                            #22
                                              fastfood

                                              • Total Posts: 82
                                              • Joined: 7/12/2005
                                              • Location: S, MO
                                              RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 12:47 PM (permalink)
                                              This happens all the time at the resteraunt I run. The messes left are outrageous and could simply be avoided if people controlled their kids.The parents are completely rude,ignorant and arrogant. Just yesterday I had a kid climbing over the bannister that leads to lower level of my resteraunt,I calmly walked over to her mother and advised her that what her daughter is doing is not only a distration but it is dangerous and a liability to me.She got outraged,made all sorts of comments and remarks and said she will never be back. At that point I advised her that her business is not wanted or needed and I am glad she won't be back.

                                              People tend to think that just because this is a fastfood resteraunt and not a conventional resteraunt like Chili's or O'Charleys that they own the place.This behavior would not even be thought of at regular resteraunt because they know they would promptly be kicked out.
                                               
                                              #23
                                                drsmoke02

                                                • Total Posts: 250
                                                • Joined: 11/16/2005
                                                • Location: emmitsburg, MD
                                                RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 2:43 PM (permalink)
                                                Fastfood,maybe it's a regional thing,around here we are in the bad habit of spelling resteraunt,restaurant.

                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  linus

                                                  • Total Posts: 252
                                                  • Joined: 7/4/2004
                                                  • Location: cleveland, OH
                                                  RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 3:09 PM (permalink)
                                                  I swear, I don't know what's wrong with people anymore and the way they're raising thier kids is going to bite us all in the butt one day.
                                                  I don't let my children behave like this at home, and I'm sure as hell not letting them do stuff like this out in public.
                                                  I have, in fact, removed the cracker basket because I don't want them filling up before the food comes. And we all automatically start looking around after the meal, making sure we didn't drop anything.
                                                  My kids don't even have to be asked anymore.
                                                  But then again, I care what my kids turn out to be one day.
                                                  I undestand sometimes there will be messes, but clean it up! my kids have dropped stuff, the difference is I don't leave it laying there.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    V960

                                                    • Total Posts: 2429
                                                    • Joined: 6/17/2005
                                                    • Location: Kannapolis area, NC
                                                    RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 3:25 PM (permalink)
                                                    My opinion is that this group would call me abusive to my children. Crackers for a meal? Mine are great eaters of all kinds of foods. They eat liver...which I will not (except for akimono and foie gras) and all kinds of green stuff.

                                                    Crackers? One can only guess at the children's regularity.

                                                    I don't allow elbows on the table, speaking w/ food in their mouths or interruptions of the elders at the table. They're children and need direction.
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      prisonchef

                                                      • Total Posts: 296
                                                      • Joined: 2/13/2006
                                                      • Location: st augustine, FL
                                                      RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 3:42 PM (permalink)
                                                      well just have to weigh in on this one.
                                                      slick if it is of any help i taught culinary arts to the older versions of your customers for four yours in a level 8 juvenile facilty (level 8 means they tried to kill someone but were too slow or stupid take your pick)
                                                      while i feel your angst maybe a sign that reads no one under (you set the age) after (you set the time)
                                                      just be thankful that your primary lunch customers aren't cops!!!!! they are far worse than children and have the power of the badge and gun backing them up. their conduct will run off other customers and prevent your customer base from growing. they will show up 30 mins before opening and demand to be seated. they will stiff your waitstaff. and on top of that they will demand a discount for "their dangerous profession" which by the way doesn't even make the top 10 list of dangerous jobs in america and was their career choice.
                                                      so while kids are bad, cops are worse
                                                      man i feel better now was kind of copped out
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        nvb

                                                        • Total Posts: 468
                                                        • Joined: 12/5/2004
                                                        • Location: dfhbgmhmy, MN
                                                        RE: Surcharge for Kids Tue, 03/14/06 4:26 PM (permalink)
                                                        quote:
                                                        Originally posted by prisonchef

                                                        just be thankful that your primary lunch customers aren't cops!!!!! they are far worse than children and have the power of the badge and gun backing them up. their conduct will run off other customers and prevent your customer base from growing. they will show up 30 mins before opening and demand to be seated. they will stiff your waitstaff. and on top of that they will demand a discount for "their dangerous profession" which by the way doesn't even make the top 10 list of dangerous jobs in america and was their career choice.
                                                        so while kids are bad, cops are worse
                                                        man i feel better now was kind of copped out


                                                        Excuse me while I snicker a bit, but as a retired cop of 29 years myself, I never ran with those kind. Well, maybe a few that were really loud and funny.
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          V960

                                                          • Total Posts: 2429
                                                          • Joined: 6/17/2005
                                                          • Location: Kannapolis area, NC
                                                          RE: Surcharge for Kids Wed, 03/15/06 12:23 PM (permalink)
                                                          When I owned a brick and mortar place we would go out of our way to "run off" police officers. No tips, wanted food for free and were generally super demanding. There were enough places that fed them for free and wanted their "business" that we had no problems.

                                                          However when we got robbed or had a problem it took over an hour for the boys in blue to show up. Part of the plan I guess.
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            prisonchef

                                                            • Total Posts: 296
                                                            • Joined: 2/13/2006
                                                            • Location: st augustine, FL
                                                            RE: Surcharge for Kids Wed, 03/15/06 3:20 PM (permalink)
                                                            if you or i were to do that it would be called extortion. but the one that really burns my butt is when they call me a civilian had enough of that and came back with i'll match my military service against yours. got no response. then asked him what do you call the man that pays your wages? got boss as his response. asked him how and who paid his wages. he responded the taxpayers. at this point i was wiping my hands with glee when i informed him that i was a taxpayer,therefore i was his boss and as his boss i found his actions to be insubordinate and was considering dismissing him for his insubordination. and don't even get me started on cops wearing military uniforms and gloves!!!!
                                                             
                                                            #30
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