The Chocolate Shake, Perfection?

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tastysavant
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2005/12/26 19:34:52 (permalink)

The Chocolate Shake, Perfection?

Hello everyone. This is my very first post after lurking around here for some time. I must say that this site has been immensely helpful to me, and I hope my posts (and your replies) will add something invaluable to this site.

For a little information, I am in the planning process of opening a traditional burger joint (burger, fries, and shakes only, if you please). As a simple beginning I would like to share one subset of recipes at a time (varying on what my interests are at that time) to get the ‘perfect’ item in its respective category (burger, fry or shake).

In this particular post I would like to go over what has been striking my fancy as of lately, the chocolate shake.

Obviously, if anyone here has any original, or not spoken of ideas, I would love to hear them. But first, I guess, I should say what I think a chocolate shake should be, and this is where the problem for me exists. When it comes to other foods (pommes frites, for example) there is a traditional recipe that produces what is generally considered the best fry. When it comes to the chocolate shake though, I find there are two schools of thought. The first shake is what you would generally find at a good ol’ mom and pop place: vanilla ice cream, milk and chocolate flavored syrup. The other (and generally considered the more gourmet of the two) consists of the same vanilla ice cream, milk (but less than the first shake) and a chocolate ganache.

For the life of me I can’t decide which is the better of the two. So, here are the basic generic recipes for each (both can have more or less milk added depending on how thick or thin you preference is):

Mom and Pop Chocolate Milkshake

4 scoops vanilla ice cream
1/2 cup of milk
3 tablespoons chocolate flavored syrup

Gourmet (for a lack of words) Chocolate Milkshake

4 scoops vanilla ice cream
¼ cup of milk
¼ cup chocolate ganache

(For those who don’t know, a simple chocolate ganache can be made by bringing 8-ounces of heavy cream to a boil and then combining to an equal amount of bittersweet chocolate, and mixing until smooth, and then letting it cool to room temperature. At this point it can be covered and stored in the refrigerator for up to 2 weeks.)

As an aside, I would say I prefer the version made with the chocolate ganache, but most people can’t stand up to such a strong taste of chocolate (and it probably doesn’t help that they’ve grown up on hershey’s syrup (shutter).

Would anyone with a love of shakes mind trying these recipes when they get a chance and giving me their honest opinion? Or if you consider yourself a guru of chocolate shakes, let me in on your technique!

Cheers,
Rick.
#1

48 Replies Related Threads

    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/26 20:39:24 (permalink)
    Now you see, I don't consider what you plan to make a milk shake. I grew up loving milk shakes, and there was never a milk shake that had any ice cream in it. It was milk, syrup and a stand mixer. That's it. That's why I have not had a milk shake -- or a malt, which was a shake with malt powder added -- in more than 40 years. There were two variations on a milk shake that did have ice cream. One was called a float. It was a regular milk shake to which a scoop of ice cream was added -- after it came off the mixer. The other was called a freeze. For a freeze a scoop of ice cream was added before the shake went onto the mixer. If it can't be sipped easily through a straw, as far as I'm concerned it's just softened ice cream, not a milk shake.
    #2
    garryd451
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/26 20:58:38 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

    Now you see, I don't consider what you plan to make a milk shake. I grew up loving milk shakes, and there was never a milk shake that had any ice cream in it. It was milk, syrup and a stand mixer. That's it. That's why I have not had a milk shake -- or a malt, which was a shake with malt powder added -- in more than 40 years. There were two variations on a milk shake that did have ice cream. One was called a float. It was a regular milk shake to which a scoop of ice cream was added -- after it came off the mixer. The other was called a freeze. For a freeze a scoop of ice cream was added before the shake went onto the mixer. If it can't be sipped easily through a straw, as far as I'm concerned it's just softened ice cream, not a milk shake.




    After reading Mr Hoffman's quote, I thought to myself, I never heard of a milk shake without ice cream! This can't be right! So I googled "milk shake". I found 4 or 5 sites that said a milk shake has ice crean in it, in only the United States! The sites also said there are alot of places in New England, have milk shakes with NO ice cream in them!
    #3
    The Travelin Man
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/26 21:27:17 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by garryd451

    After reading Mr Hoffman's quote, I thought to myself, I never heard of a milk shake without ice cream! This can't be right! So I googled "milk shake". I found 4 or 5 sites that said a milk shake has ice crean in it, in only the United States! The sites also said there are alot of places in New England, have milk shakes with NO ice cream in them!


    Come on....you have been around here long enough. How could you have even considered that Hoffman was wrong?
    #4
    Pigiron
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/26 22:12:53 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by stevekoe



    Come on....you have been around here long enough. How could you have even considered that Hoffman was wrong?


    Or more importantly, things can be done correctly only one way: the way HE says.
    #5
    Billfish
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/26 23:22:14 (permalink)
    In the North Shore area of Massachusetts,(North of Boston and coastal:towns like Lynn,Revere,Beverly)ordering a milk shake will get you milk and syrup,no ice cream.
    If you want ice cream in your drink you ask for a "frappe".
    Obviously this doesnt apply if you are at a non-local chain like Friendlys or Denny's.
    #6
    tastysavant
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 10:57:23 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by garryd451

    quote:
    Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

    Now you see, I don't consider what you plan to make a milk shake. I grew up loving milk shakes, and there was never a milk shake that had any ice cream in it. It was milk, syrup and a stand mixer. That's it. That's why I have not had a milk shake -- or a malt, which was a shake with malt powder added -- in more than 40 years. There were two variations on a milk shake that did have ice cream. One was called a float. It was a regular milk shake to which a scoop of ice cream was added -- after it came off the mixer. The other was called a freeze. For a freeze a scoop of ice cream was added before the shake went onto the mixer. If it can't be sipped easily through a straw, as far as I'm concerned it's just softened ice cream, not a milk shake.




    After reading Mr Hoffman's quote, I thought to myself, I never heard of a milk shake without ice cream! This can't be right! So I googled "milk shake". I found 4 or 5 sites that said a milk shake has ice crean in it, in only the United States! The sites also said there are alot of places in New England, have milk shakes with NO ice cream in them!



    I'm in the same camp as you. I haven't heard of one without ice cream either, I guess I'll make one later on today and give you guys the blow by blow comparison. (Thanks Mr. Hoffman for bringing this to my attention (although you have just added a third option to my anguish ))
    #7
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:00:12 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Pigiron

    quote:
    Originally posted by stevekoe



    Come on....you have been around here long enough. How could you have even considered that Hoffman was wrong?


    Or more importantly, things can be done correctly only one way: the way HE says.

    That's not what "HE" says.
    #8
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:01:31 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Billfish

    In the North Shore area of Massachusetts,(North of Boston and coastal:towns like Lynn,Revere,Beverly)ordering a milk shake will get you milk and syrup,no ice cream.
    If you want ice cream in your drink you ask for a "frappe".
    Obviously this doesnt apply if you are at a non-local chain like Friendlys or Denny's.


    I forgot about frappes in Massachusetts. That's what we called a freeze in Southern Connecticut.
    #9
    tastysavant
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:08:27 (permalink)
    from answers.com

    1. A beverage made of milk, flavoring, and ice cream, shaken or whipped until foamy. Also called shake; also called regionally cabinet, frappe; Also called velvet.

    2. New England. A beverage made of milk and flavored syrup, whipped until foamy.

    REGIONAL NOTE To most Americans, a milk shake, that thick, sweet accompaniment to a hamburger and fries, naturally includes ice cream. But speakers in parts of New England make finer distinctions in their ice cream terminology. To a person living in Rhode Island or the adjoining part of Massachusetts, a milk shake consists of milk shaken up with flavored syrup and nothing more; if ice cream is included, the drink is called a cabinet, possibly, says food writer John F. Mariani in The Dictionary of American Food and Drink, named after the square wooden cabinet in which the mixer was encased. Farther north in New England, the same drink is called a velvet or a frappe (from French frapper, “to ice”).


    Do most people consider the version without ice cream a fancy chocolate milk? (I mean, I'm not sure how many people have ever heard of a milk shake (outside of the north east) without ice cream, and as I stated earlier, I sure hadn't).
    #10
    joanie41
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:17:56 (permalink)
    I think you have a lot of options here. I mean, we're talking about inherently yummy stuff: milk, ice cream (or not), flavorings (upscale or regular), and so on.

    If I went to your shop, and you offered several different types of a chocolate shake, including a frothy chocolate milk, a "traditional" shake, and a shake that went to college (fancy chocolate flavorings, etc), AND you had a little description of each, I'd be happy as a clam. Again, this isn't rocket science, and you could easily offer all three options without things getting too complicated.

    If it were my shop, I'd offer a vanilla shake (not everyone eats chocolate) and I'd make sure I offered malt, which is MY favorite add-in!

    Have fun with this -- it's a happy dilemma!
    #11
    tastysavant
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:37:16 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by joanie41

    I think you have a lot of options here. I mean, we're talking about inherently yummy stuff: milk, ice cream (or not), flavorings (upscale or regular), and so on.

    If I went to your shop, and you offered several different types of a chocolate shake, including a frothy chocolate milk, a "traditional" shake, and a shake that went to college (fancy chocolate flavorings, etc), AND you had a little description of each, I'd be happy as a clam. Again, this isn't rocket science, and you could easily offer all three options without things getting too complicated.

    If it were my shop, I'd offer a vanilla shake (not everyone eats chocolate) and I'd make sure I offered malt, which is MY favorite add-in!

    Have fun with this -- it's a happy dilemma!


    Come to think of it, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Not everyone's idea of perfection is the same, and the fact that all three options are variations onto themselves makes having all three a no brainer.

    Alright, its decided, all three it is. Now its time for me to do some happy experimenting to get what I think is best for each .

    And yes, vanilla and malts are a must!
    #12
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 11:41:56 (permalink)
    Don't forget strawberry and butterscotch. But limit the malts to the chocolate and vanilla. I'll have a chocolate malt float, please.
    #13
    tastysavant
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 13:27:13 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

    Don't forget strawberry and butterscotch. But limit the malts to the chocolate and vanilla. I'll have a chocolate malt float, please.


    Mmmmmmm...butterscotch milkshake...sounds good, how do you make yours?
    #14
    TJ Jackson
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 13:30:03 (permalink)
    I am nowhere near as old as the venerable Mr Hoffman, and do not ever recall a milkshake (or malt) not having ice cream blended into it.

    What he is calling a milkshake, I would call a chocolate milk.

    *shrug*

    To get to the actual question posed, though, I think that there are many people, women particularly, who would really enjoy a shake made in the "granache" fashion, but for the average person pairing a shake with burger and fries, no, it'd be too strong.

    If you want to sell these together, I'd suggest going with the non-granache method.

    Is there any reason the granache version could not be offerred as a special or an alternative? Probably at a somewhat higher price, I'd wager?
    #15
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 13:50:34 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tastysavant

    quote:
    Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

    Don't forget strawberry and butterscotch. But limit the malts to the chocolate and vanilla. I'll have a chocolate malt float, please.


    Mmmmmmm...butterscotch milkshake...sounds good, how do you make yours?

    I didn't make them. I ordered them. It was just butterscotch syrup spquirted into the milk shake (stainless) container and milk. It was then put on the stand mixer and, well, mixed to the usual froth. It was made the same way as any other milkhake -- bearing mind that I'm still talking about the milkshakes I grew up with -- no ice cream.
    #16
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 13:54:48 (permalink)
    FYI: I just got off the phone with my sister, who lives in West Haven, Connecticut, and she assured me that a milkshake is still a milkshake there and it contains no ice cream, unless you order a float (a scoop of ice cream added after the shake is made) or a freeze (a scoop added prior to mixing), also known in Massachusetts as a frappe. She said you can get the things most of the people here think of as milkshakes at the usual fast-food places, only.
    #17
    TJ Jackson
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 13:56:36 (permalink)
    Bizarre :-)

    Another interesting regional difference :-)
    #18
    bullmf
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 14:52:24 (permalink)
    Different regions have different names. I live in the South, and milkshakes contain ice cream, ALWAYS! Also down here, milk with chocolate syrup is called chocolate milk. No need to get upset because people have different names for different items?
    #19
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 15:22:32 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by bullmf

    Different regions have different names. I live in the South, and milkshakes contain ice cream, ALWAYS! Also down here, milk with chocolate syrup is called chocolate milk. No need to get upset because people have different names for different items?

    Gee, where I come from milk with chocolate syrup is called chocolate milk, too. When you put it on a mixer, though, it's called a milkshake.
    #20
    TJ Jackson
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 15:38:15 (permalink)
    heh, to clarify: doesn't matter over the course of my life whether it is put in a mixer or shook in a can or run through a centrifuge or shot to the moon and back -- milk + chocolate syrup = chocolate milk.

    and no, I'm not upset about it, it's actually pretty interesting
    #21
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 15:46:29 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by TJ Jackson

    heh, to clarify: doesn't matter over the course of my life whether it is put in a mixer or shook in a can or run through a centrifuge or shot to the moon and back -- milk + chocolate syrup = chocolate milk.


    Then I would suggest you not order a chocolate milkshake in Southern New England because that's what you're going to get -- unless, of course, you are in a McDonald's, Wendy's of Burger King.
    #22
    tmiles
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 16:26:55 (permalink)
    On of my favorites (they call it a "shake") is at the seasonal Ronnies on Rt 20 in Auburn Mass. You get it on the clams/burgers/fries side. It is made from a premix in a machine as at McDs, but they use a different premix, because it is great. You can also get the traditional "frappe" on the ice cream side. Unlike most roadfood places, Ronnies has 2 buildings with the same parking lot. I also like the chocolate shake at the Johnny Rockets at the Providence Place Mall.........I know that it is a chain, but it's good!
    #23
    tastysavant
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 17:47:16 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by TJ Jackson

    heh, to clarify: doesn't matter over the course of my life whether it is put in a mixer or shook in a can or run through a centrifuge or shot to the moon and back -- milk + chocolate syrup = chocolate milk.



    LOL ... I'd have to agree, but I'm from the south....
    #24
    jvsmom
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2005/12/27 19:06:11 (permalink)
    Now don't forget about the "cabinet" in Rhode Island and the "concrete" in the midwest (or is it vice versa?). Aren't those what we in Boston call frappes?
    #25
    enginecapt
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2006/01/13 04:11:29 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

    Don't forget strawberry and butterscotch. But limit the malts to the chocolate and vanilla.
    Don't listen to him. If a customer like myself comes in and
    orders a strawberry malted, do it. They're heaven.
    #26
    FoodBully
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2006/01/13 09:06:57 (permalink)
    Here in Little Rock, the Purple Cow restaurant serves my favorite "milk shake" called the Triple Treat Chocolate Malt. It consists of chocolate ice cream, chocolate syrup, and shaved white chocolate sprinkled on top. And yes it's served in a traditional glass with the silver mixer glass alongside. Yum!

    http://www.purplecowlr.com
    #27
    octopus
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2006/01/16 13:11:31 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Shewmaker

    Here in Little Rock, the Purple Cow restaurant serves my favorite "milk shake" called the Triple Treat Chocolate Malt. It consists of chocolate ice cream, chocolate syrup, and shaved white chocolate sprinkled on top. And yes it's served in a traditional glass with the silver mixer glass alongside. Yum!

    http://www.purplecowlr.com


    Sounds good to me, I never understood why you would even consider making a Chocolate Shake with Vanilla Ice Cream. Dont get me wrong I like Vanilla as much as the next guy. But a Chocolate Shake should be made from chocolate. :P
    #28
    garryd451
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2006/01/16 13:19:48 (permalink)
    Years ago, I used get Hot Fudge Milk Shakes or Hot Fudge Malts, this was before I was fat and before I knew what Cholesterol is!
    #29
    BuddyRoadhouse
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    RE: The Chocolate Shake, Perfection? 2006/01/16 15:31:46 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tastysavant



    Come to think of it, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Not everyone's idea of perfection is the same, and the fact that all three options are variations onto themselves makes having all three a no brainer.

    Alright, its decided, all three it is. Now its time for me to do some happy experimenting to get what I think is best for each .

    And yes, vanilla and malts are a must!


    Tasty, you seem like a guy who is sincere about putting out a quality product. Now I'm no retail expert, but I am a small businessman with a food product on the market(previously discussed in other forums), so I think I can speak with just a little authority here.

    If you go into this venture trying to please all palates at all times, especially with a plan to serve three different regional types of milk shakes, you're setting yourself up for confusion and disaster(IMHO). I respect your wanting to get this thing right, but, you're making things way too complicated for yourself and your new business. Start by pleasing your own palate and then make only necessary changes to suit your market.

    Example: I recently described an experience at a place called Relish in a thread called "Christmas in KC". The owner of Relish has a concept wherein he sells nothing but hot dogs, prepared in traditional regional styles (i.e. Chicago style dogs, slaw dogs, chili dogs, etc.). My wife and I, being from Chicago, decided to give him the challenge and ordered a Chicago style dog. The owner had obviously done his homework, travelling to Chicago and checking out numerous places in order to get a fuller understanding of the traditional Chicago hot dog. All the right pieces were in place; Vienna Beef Dog, mustard, onion, neon green relish, tomato, celery salt, sport peppers, and a big old pickle. But he made some subtle changes to please his own palate and to suit the tastes of his Kansas City audience. First, because he wanted a sharper, more distinct mustard flavor, he substituted a slightly brown, grained mustard for the traditional yellow that is common (and some think required) back here. Second, instead of a boiled or steamed dog, he went with a grilled dog. Not heresy, but not the overwhelmingly traditional Chicago method either. He explained that while he would have preferred to serve a boiled hot dog, his KC customers would reject it.

    Now if you were opening up a store that sold nothing but milk shakes, as Relish does hot dogs, I would say go for the three way shake menu. In fact why stop there? There must be other regional differences, even international differences that could be identified. For you though, the shake is just one part of a bigger picture.

    Make yourself happy. Please your palate. Make minimal, necessary adjustments to please your customers. As long as you are serving a quality product, it will shine through.

    Hope this was helpful. Good luck and best wishes,

    Buddy
    #30
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