This is tough-Any ways around?

I got a response from the health dept finally and they said this is what I can do with a cart in TN

"The only thing you can fix on a hot dog cart is hot dog and your buns with prepackaged items that you will not be dipping out."

I am assuming with this that onions, slaw have to be in prepackaged individual packages. Do they even sell it like this?

you have mail

Hey Curbside, let us in on the secrets. I for one am very intersted in the whole individual prepackaged operation.

for everyones info TN states individual packets for patron use. chiliman have same type cart as you so here goes. on top counter have condiment trays with the regular stuff, ketchup, mustard, relish, onions, and texas pete for the patron. In the cooler section,since i can dispense, i keep squeeze bottles of ketchup and two different types mustard. my sliced onions and peppers,kraut are stored there, along with mustard slaw that is purchased here. the real problem now is that since nightshift and i are under same state reg.'s, different counties, and different inspectors with their own interpetation. i'm from small mill town and farming county, my HD inspector covers two counties here, where nightshift is from has many more per county and i bet each is different when it comes to interpeting the rules. they probally let me get by with more for where i'm at. but on other hand he still sites me for not having 'no smoking' sign on cart. When i got started asked about chili, informed NO but informed HD canned hot dog sauce, since canned heat in steam pan and was told this is fine. i also have bulk relish,shredded cheese, and diced onions that i dispense from. Same inspector, inspected annually and at small festivals always pass.

quote:

Originally posted by Nightshift

"The only thing you can fix on a hot dog cart is hot dog and your buns with prepackaged items that you will not be dipping out."

Quote us the actual statement they told you (in print)..
I think your missing something here, or trying to shorten it down.
But if the paperwork says Dipping, just tell them your Scooping. Be a loophole you could get around, but again, don't think you fully quoted the statement... Need some better input here..

from the rules itself - "single service articles. Mobile food units shall provide only single-service articles for use by the consumer." which we interpid as i cannot put condiment squeeze bottles or bulk containers as on salad bars. only individual condiment packages for their use

You will laugh if I show you all of my questions and her answer, so here goes, my questions first and then her answer to me.
>>> All Metro Clean <allmetroclean@yahoo.com> 7/18/2008 10:43 AM >>>

Closed kitchens are very expensive. I just need to know where to go
from here? I don't want to buy this thing and have it not be approved. Do you guys have a list of restricted foods. It appears from the lack of info I am getting that hot dog carts are not popular? So here is a list of additional questions.

Prepacked foods, so a hot dog and a bun and my menu is ok?

Grill, does it need to be attached to the cart or can it set beside the cart?
Can I have a griddle to cook onions and peppers.?
Do I need to get a pre approval from u before ordering a cart?
Do you allow deep fryers that are attached to the cart?
I need a list of restricted foods, because for obvious reasons my
business will grow and will add items to the menu?
Does the cart need to be NSF Certified?
What is the cost from the health dept to get my cart approved?
Do I need to apply now and get some kind of pre approval?
What is the approval process and getting started step by step?
Can I have an extra cooler that is not attached to the cart for cokes,ect?
Do I need 3 or 4 sinks attached to the cart?
Do I need to store my cart at the commissary? I have to wash it there everyday? What other things am I suppose to do on daily basis at my commissary? Chop Onions ect?
Do you need to go to the commissary? Do I need to be there? I guess
you would inspect my cart there?
I get these questions from other cart owners who have run across these scenarios. If you could answer each question individually. If you don't know the answer could you get the answer? Is emailing you a hassle for you or would you prefer to talk by phone? The easier the process, I am up for?

I hope you can appreciate my wanting to be thorough. I don't want to
do anything illegal.

Christine

Her response

With all the things you want to add and do to the cart and your menu the only thing you can do is go with the enclosed kitchens. The only thing you can fix on a hot dog cart is hot dog and your buns with prepackaged items that you will not be dipping out.

Melissa Easterly
Environmental Health Specialist
Sumner Co. Health Dept.
1005 Union School Rd
Gallatin, Tn 37066
1-(615)-206-1113


Know that this is for Sumner County TN. NOt Davidson. HOwever she said the rules are going to be the same. My commisary is in Sumner COunty so I thought I would have to set up there, and she told me maybe not.

LMAO at her response. Sometimes u do run into the backwoods sometime.

quote:

Originally posted by UncleVic

quote:

Originally posted by Nightshift

"The only thing you can fix on a hot dog cart is hot dog and your buns with prepackaged items that you will not be dipping out."

Quote us the actual statement they told you (in print)..
I think your missing something here, or trying to shorten it down.
But if the paperwork says Dipping, just tell them your Scooping. Be a loophole you could get around, but again, don't think you fully quoted the statement... Need some better input here..

And when I say I want to get around stuff, I mean loophole. If they don't want me to do Itailian Sausages, I guess I won't because u can tell the difference between them and a polish. But like you said, I will scoop canned chili, will a little extra hot stuff that must of spilled into the pan. LOL

Davidson county doesn't allow chairs and tables so one weener stand brings blankets for people to picnic. That's a loophole.

Need more loop holes. One poster said just go for what u want and ask forgiveness later however I am worrie about big fines. I don't want to get stuck at the gate.

Maybe we need a new thread called loopholes for more ideas like this. And I am also curious since these inspectors do not know where we are parked then the only way of getting caught is if they just happened to drive by. Otherwise I am assume they would have to make and appt.

I can't believe that TN, is so strict, I have plastic containers and spoons with lids for my onions and salsa, shredded cheese, I have squeeze bottles for ketcup, and mustard Why anyone uses Ketcup I will never understand I guess colorado has different laws, I have checked with my HD the biggest thing here is not to park in a street parking side parking stall.

I feel for you Nightshift, my cart is new and is NSF qualified, I am spending 8K for the new cart comming.... Its a kiosk cart!!!!!

Tn requires 2 inspection/yr. do not hide from them. you are right, since you are mobile and they can't find you they call first. restaurants don't have that. blessing in deguise. guessing you need printed rules. ask HD or i can email them to you(PDF format). if just doing hot dogs no sink required. but if you expand or go to another county different rules might apply,
that is why i have 4 sinks. only restricted foods are what they call hazardous, since you are not covered. dairy, eggs and raw meat fit these requirements. also fryers increases insurance risks. the old addage applies -kiss. no cost for preapproval one time annual fee, buss. lic. from state,county,city,fed. id #, insurance and you are off

Coz Dogs our state is not that strict. for everyday lunch they are pretty much there. i do grilled peppers and onions/ polish sausage, heat kraut, fry potatoes(don't have fries), serve about anything they wish on dog. but they have their own guidelines. hell even do a reuben style(with polish sausage,kraut,russian dressing on grilled bun)some things cannot do. but if purchased and heated fine. we cannot make our own sides, except veggies.

Where, exactly, have you set up business? I'm nearby, I'm hungry, and I'll testify that you're not serving me mustard from a communal jar.

Have you considered a trailer or a truck rather than a cart? Its a whole differant world. And done properly not much more expensive.

poverty pete in Lawrenceburg behind bank of america mon-fri 10-1
amish center sat. 10-3, thats 5 miles north of town in ethridge, big flea market and tourist for the amish experience and fresh veggies at prices they should be. As they say here just drive till you see the emissions in the road. Could make alot money in natural fertilizer here. bring own shovel.

quote:

from the rules itself - "single service articles. Mobile food units shall provide only single-service articles for use by the consumer." which we interpret as i cannot put condiment squeeze bottles or bulk containers as on salad bars. only individual condiment packages for their use.

Note that phrase "for use by the consumer".

quote:

"The only thing you can fix on a hot dog cart is hot dog and your buns with prepackaged items that you will not be dipping out."

Note the phrase "that YOU will not be dipping out" (emphasis added).

That second may be a valid rule, but it is clearly not the rule in the first quote. The operator and consumer are very different roles.

None of which is much comfort when you are held in violation.