Tipping..........................................

 
Howdy!
 
I was reading another meesage board, coming across a post by a restaurant waiter complaining about tips. Common enough complaint. 
 
Back in the 1990's, I was a waiter at a corporate cusual dining restaurant. The pay then was $2.13 an hour. The tips we received were supposed to be reported to the IRS, and what everyone did was to declare $3.12 of it, to the then minimum wage of $5.25 an hour. So, more or less, we were all tax cheats and breaking the law.
 
The company worked my arse off for their $2.13 an hour. On top of serving, I had to do "running sidework", and then "closing sidework" which entailed another duty, then roll 100 pieces of silverware by the end of the evening. Many of us did this while there was a lull in customers and then actually hide them under the cooler or other places until closing time. 
 
Isn't there something inherently wrong to pay someone less than minimum wage and expect that the customer should pay the rest of their salary? I am sure the restaurant industry loves this, because they are literally paying their waitstaff next to nothing, to do work that no one menial labor person would do for less than $6-7.00 an hour to do.  Why stop with the servers and bartenders? Why not tip the cook in the back? Or the cashier? Why not tip the pilot of your flight $20 bucks for a safe landing? Or tip your doctor $100 for delivering your baby?
 
Isn't there something inherently wrong when the customer has to pay the server's salary and is expected to do so, to the point where it is actually bad taste not to tip someone. Someone who does not give up the extra 20% is thought of very negatively. Cheap. Maybe a (15%) service charge should be added, but if this happens, the server will not be as attentive and just get by on that. There was one place I knew of which disallowed tipping altogether and had signs in the restaurant mentioning such.
 
I have never liked the concept of "tipping", but I dont see anyway around it, except to at least force the restaurants to pay the MINIMUM WAGE. That's what the dishwasher and the cleaner gets. It doesn't matter if you are a small family place or huge corporation.
 
Anything to add?
 

This will fast become a heated topic.

Tips will not change. People have all different theories for why they tip certain amounts or have to tip certain amounts. People who are nasty should not be servers.

I've always thought the ridiculously low wage for wait staff was stupid.  There are plenty of countries that pay the wait staff a full normal wage because tipping isn't a part of the culture.  I loved it in Japan when I ordered a 2000 yen entree, my bill at the end of the meal was just that.  2000 yen.  It didn't ratchet up with tax, tip, ect.

And why punish the wait staff in stiffed tips for screw ups that are purely kitchen related?  Food not cooked to order, taste is off, under/over seasoned, poorly plated... punish the waiter?

I'd love to pay more for my meal rather than tack on the tip on the tail end to a server who suffers for the kitchen.  But this I think is simply a cultural quirk, rather than a eatery owner conspiracy.

I think you just answered your own question without knowing it:

Maybe a (15%) service charge should be added, but if this happens, the server will not be as attentive and just get by on that.

Tips = incentive for good service.

I currently deliver pizza, have been doing it for a long time, and I pretty much know who tips and who doesn't in my area. Those that tip always get their food first unless I have to really go out of my way to bring the non-tipper their food last.

If someone who doesn't tip orders, and then someone else orders that does tip shortly after, I will almost always wait on the tipping order to come out before leaving, regardless of how long the non-tipping order has been ready.

I could go on forever about different scenarios and all that, but I don't feel like writing a novel today.

As for the employer being forced to pay minimum wage, it wouldn't make much difference. In fact, if they paid minimum wage and the wait staff didn't receive tips, they would probably go work somewhere else and the restaurant would have no wait staff.

Most wait staff average well over minimum wage when you factor tips in. I average $15-25 an hour delivering pizzas on most nights, but my actual wages are only $6.00 an hour (I think $6.55 is minimum in Louisiana).

I'm sure wait staff's job is a lot harder and more stressful than mine too. My job basically consists of taking phone orders, working the oven, driving around in my car listening to Pantera, and usually having less than 30 seconds of face to face interaction with the customer, and if they don't like the way their food tastes or whatever, I'm already gone by then, so complaints usually consist of the customer calling the store and complaining to the manager, whereas wait staff usually gets to sit there being bitched out and judged by some pompous ass that's blaming the wrong person for their steak not tasting just perfect.

Wait staff (good ones anyway) are constantly running around all over the place, making sure everyone's happy at all their tables, having to put on a fake smile and pretend they're jolly and happy even on their worst days, etc.

Those people really bust their ass, and deserve every cent they get. If the employer were to pay them everything (again, most average well above minimum wage when tips are factored in), then menu prices would have to skyrocket  to compensate, or go out of business.

What you say has a ring of truth. I used to eat out a lot (in better times) and had a few favorite places. Over time got to know the wait staff. The good ones are going to be there a long time, the lousy ones gone in a flash. Most wait staff are there to work and work they do, they don't have a lot of time to schmooze but try to keep the atmosphere freindly. These people get my tips and if I find out they have to give some to the dishwashers and the buss boys, I'll tip extra. I used to stock shelves in a grocery store in my missspent youth and after a long time in tha Navy have come to appreciate hard work. Wait staff, I wouldn't want to do it. I think it takes that kind of person and to be good at it and make money, moreso. I'm done.

Cause they don't have the unmitigated gall to put tip jars out.

My Tipping Philosophy is pretty simple:
Outstanding Service= Outstanding Tip-20-25%
Good Service= Good Tip- 15-20%
Average Service= Average Tip-10%
Poor Service=Poor Tip-5-8%
Bad Service= No Tip-0%
ALL TIPS CALCULATED PRE-TAX!

MikeinRI


I don't get it either. The owners of restaurants know their staff is getting tipped so they offer little in hourly pay. What if the restaurant happened to have a bunch of cheap customers that don't tip. Should the boss pay more per hour? If the customers were GREAT tippers, should he not have to pay any hourly rate? NO. Tips should be none of the bosses business. Waiters should make a good hourly pay. Tips are meant to be extra. For fast, friendly, effecient service. If his staff gets tipped well, it's good for him too. That means HIS customers, that his staff has direct contact with, are happy!
   It IS a cultural thing. And business owners are taking advantage of it.
   How come we tip the workers at coffee joints, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, etc., but not Burger King, McDonalds, etc? 

I think in at least some states, if a waiter/waitress makes $0 in tips that hour or at least not enough to bring their wages + tips to minimum wage, the restaurant owner is required to pay them the difference.

I remember someone telling me that a couple times in the past, but I don't know how accurate it actually is.

I don't see why the waitstaff has to do a lot of the "chores" that full time hourly workers are being paid for.  Unless it relates specifically to their station/tables) they should not have to do this.   

Foodbme


My Tipping Philosophy is pretty simple:
Outstanding Service= Outstanding Tip-20-25%
Good Service= Good Tip- 15-20%
Average Service= Average Tip-10%
Poor Service=Poor Tip-5-8%
Bad Service= No Tip-0%
ALL TIPS CALCULATED PRE-TAX!

ditto except for:
 
bad service = a penny (so they know you didn't forget to leave a tip).
 
had really, really, really bad service at a diner once - that required more than just leaving a penny. 
 
i was the only customer - no one else there when i walked in or during the whole time i was there.  no phone calls for take-out orders either.  i ordered breakfast food - eggs over easy, sausage and hash browns.

i was there more than an hour and a half due to it taking so long for the wait-person to take my order and then waited again for it to be brought to the table and then had to wait again to get my check.  the person never checked to see if the order/food was okay and didn't offer to refill my tea or water, either.  they jumped to the register to take my money, though.
 
this was a fairly new place, too - had been open for about 1 1/2 months.  there were 4 people working - 2 out front and 2 in the kitchen.
 
i turned the water glass over (still filled with the water) and left a penny sitting on top of it.  needless to say, i never went back there again.

I have tipped between 0 and 25% over the years.

The last place I tipped 0 was here:

http://www.dorahighschool.com/sponsors/CurrentSPonsors/GreenTop/Greentop.htm



..this is a world class bbq joint and written up in Southern Belly..I was there a few years back on the way back from a vacation with my daughter and 2 granddaughters in Panama City..


..I do not know how long the waitress (a young girl) we had was working as a waitress but she did nothing right..starting with ignoring our table for over a half hour (the place was not busy - she was yacking with some folks somewhere else in the place)..she took the orders finally and we didn't get our food or drinks for over an hour..her demeanor and attitude really sucked...the food was very good...she earned her O tip bigtime..

NYPIzzaNut


I have tipped between 0 and 25% over the years.

The last place I tipped 0 was here:

http://www.dorahighschool.com/sponsors/CurrentSPonsors/GreenTop/Greentop.htm



..this is a world class bbq joint and written up in Southern Belly..I was there a few years back on the way back from a vacation with my daughter and 2 granddaughters in Panama City..


..I do not know how long the waitress (a young girl) we had was working as a waitress but she did nothing right..starting with ignoring our table for over a half hour (the place was not busy - she was yacking with some folks somewhere else in the place)..she took the orders finally and we didn't get our food or drinks for over an hour..her demeanor and attitude really sucked...the food was very good...she earned her O tip bigtime..

You're a patient man.  I would have tipped my hat and walked out the door long before I waited 30 minutes to be acknowleged by a server.  I don't care how good the food is or how busy they are.

I still rankle at the term gratuity.  How can it be a gratuity if its expected ot even worse factored in already on a party of 6 or more?

I tip a higher percentage when I'm alone since I figure serving one person is more than 1/2 the work of serving two.

I always leave at least fifteen percent unless the server is truly incompetent or has a very bad attitude, but if a server really pleases me, he/she can count on twenty percent or more. Yesterday I had lunch at a sports bar in NW Indiana; the food was so-so, but the young lady who waited on me was so friendly, polite and efficient that I left her $2.50 on a $9.00 check. That's over 25%, but I feel that she earned it. I spent many years working in a customer-service profession, where tips were part of my income, so I can certainly appreciate how difficult ( and miserable ) a servers' job is.   

IMHO, there's something very American about pay-for-performance.  Isn't that what tipping is?  I don't mind tipping very well for good service, and very low for poor service.  

Two thoughts:  

1.  We can't forget that the quality of the food has nothing to do with the quality of the service (as nocarolina noted), unless slow service resulted in the food being cold.

2.  Everyone should wait tables at least once in their life.  The world would be a better place.

Just my 2cents.

I see absolutely no point in tipping for the delivery of apizza when they already tack on a delivery charge.

Michael Hoffman


I see absolutely no point in tipping for the delivery of apizza when they already tack on a delivery charge.

Most if not all of the delivery charge at most places don't go to the driver. It usually goes to the store and is used to pay their driver insurance, which is pretty expensive.  Even if the driver did get that money, there wouldn't be much if anything left after gas, which is going up in price again.

So start tipping your driver now that you know that, and they'll stop wanting to slash their wrists every time they see your address pop up on the delivery screen. :-P

TIPS

To Insure Proper Service

Wow, what varied responses we have in this thread.  It shows that most have no clue as to how restaurants actually work...and that includes most people who have waited at or worked at restaurants.

Some feel that waitstaff should be paid at least minimum wage and the tips not taken into consideration.  Well the tips MUST be taken into consideration because the waitstaff must be taxed on it...it's income.  Management knows tips are involved and adjust wages accordingly.  As long as a combined salary + tips equals or surpasses minimum wage a higher salary is not required.

For those of you that don't know...it is Federal Law that, when tips are included as part of salary, the minimum wage must be at least $2.13...so that's not some arbitrary number thrown around by restaurants.  It's actually law that you must pay at least that amount.

As far as waitstaff having to do SO MUCH work...p-uh-leeeeese!  That is a complaint straight from the waiter/waitress national handbook.  So many waitpersons complain about this.  They think they have to "work" so much more than everyone else and they only get paid $2.13 (or a bit more) for all their hard work.  Side work is part of the job.  When someone complains about side work on a forum such as this, the uneducated public might actually think the poor waitperson is having to do the job of some other slacker in the workplace.  That isn't the case at all.  Side work is a part of waiting tables.  It's a requirement...and yes...most waitpersons I know that work at most restaurants really don't mind doing it.  They know where their bread is buttered and most don't want to lose their well paying job because they are lazy when it comes to their side duties.

Yes, I said well paying job.  True, most waitpersons don't make that much money when it comes to the end of the year.  But you also have to realize that most "shifts" waitpersons pull are only 4-5 hours long and most only work 4-5 days a week.  That's not many hours.  Their yearly salary might not be much, but their hourly salary is typically much higher than any other position in a restaurant situation.  Again, I know some folks work at diners and are nickle & dimed to death...but there are also those who work for $200-$300+ in tips per shift.  Don't be fooled...many full time (I use the term "full time" loosely) waitstaff professionals are making $800-$1,500 per week.  That's not bad for unskilled labor...and also not bad for a part time job and supplemental income.

There are alot of misconceptions in this thread. 

It was said earlier that waitstaff must report their tips for tax purposes, but they all lie and just write enough to equal the minimum wage when added to their salary.  That can be true, but it can also be dangerous (it's also very much against the law).  You see...IF the business was audited and it was found that the waitstaff was under reporting their tips, it could be a very bad day for those employees.  One thing most waitpersons don't take into consideration is their credit card tips.  Uh Oh!  Some didn't think about the paper trail!  I actually had a waitress one night try to report $20 less in tips than were on her credit cards.  She obviously had tips from customers that didn't pay with cards and made good tips...but she wasn't even reporting what was undeniable.  I told her about it and she changed her tip report.  Not smart.

Anyway, the public assumes they know all about tips...but rarely do they know the full story.

PopsDogHouse

NYPIzzaNut


I have tipped between 0 and 25% over the years.

The last place I tipped 0 was here:

http://www.dorahighschool.com/sponsors/CurrentSPonsors/GreenTop/Greentop.htm



..this is a world class bbq joint and written up in Southern Belly..I was there a few years back on the way back from a vacation with my daughter and 2 granddaughters in Panama City..


..I do not know how long the waitress (a young girl) we had was working as a waitress but she did nothing right..starting with ignoring our table for over a half hour (the place was not busy - she was yacking with some folks somewhere else in the place)..she took the orders finally and we didn't get our food or drinks for over an hour..her demeanor and attitude really sucked...the food was very good...she earned her O tip bigtime..

You're a patient man.  I would have tipped my hat and walked out the door long before I waited 30 minutes to be acknowleged by a server.  I don't care how good the food is or how busy they are.

Same here. 

I always tip $3.00 to a food delivery person. Which in most cases exceeds 20% of the food bill.

===I tip a higher percentage when I'm alone since I figure serving one person is more than 1/2 the work of serving two.===

Waitresses love single guys just for that reason. I know that I do the same thing. 

There are many inequities in restaurant pay. I don't look at how much they earn per hour as much as I look at what is earned within 5-6 hours. As a cook, I will observe them counting out over  $ 100.++ for that period. Many of the kitchen staff will not earn that in 8 hours of hard sweaty labor. It is the nature of the business.

A busboy will get -minimum- wage plus tips, I think that it works out okay, but that means he is earning more in 4-5 hours than a pantry cook in a 8 hour shift.
I think they all should receive minimum wage nonetheless. There can be very slow nights where they earn very little. It's a crapshoot and if they are sent home early, it's even worse. 

Bartenders do receive minimum wage and usually more per hour, then you can factor in the tips after that. It's a great gig, as the owner knows that a good bartender is what makes the $$$ for the place. I suspect that the waitstaff is envious of that too. And then they also have to tip the bartender at the end of the shift too.

Either way, both have to put the best face for the restaurant and are a major factor for why customers return. Face it, folks will return to a place where the food is average at best, but the front of the house atmosphere keeps them coming back.
That said, the back of the house usually earns the least, even in a good place. It was something I noticed in NOLA where some places felt that the quality cooks are working to learn and use the restaurant as a highlight in future resumes and also, take advantage of the colored population. Either way, I found it odd that there were no Latinos working in many places

This topic can go on back and forth and even after all my years, I don't have a completely acceptable answer.  ...I want more money.
In closing, one thing that is a good thing to remember. If you did get great service from your server, add a single penny to the total. It is a old sign of appreciation.

mark

doggydaddy


 If you did get great service from your server, add a single penny to the total. It is a old sign of appreciation.

mark

Where did this come from, heard this many a time and just like to know.

I don't know and I can't seem to find any answers. I certainly can find plenty about the  topic. I liked this one as it will add to this discussion.

http://www.ragingserver.com/best_waiter_server_blog/2007/09/14/rules-for-eating-out-part-2-the-rules-for-tipping/

For me, the extra penny is one of the 'rules of the road' that I use when I drive around the country. I think it is another topic though, with the one part of it being how to deal and let truckers know things to help them as they drive. It involves flashing headlights....

mark

Find only in Mid- Atlantic area if you ask about an food find they say 'That place is to Salty"
meaning expensive
Price of salt in europe has come here.
Don't even go Penn.-Dutch
Off topic, for me as always. Sorry

And with all this OUTRAGE over tipping and how restaurants pay their waitstaff, no one has mentioned who the waitstaff has to tip.  WHAT?!?  The waitstaff has to tip people?

Yet another example of what the general public normally has no idea of. 

You always tip your waitperson, right?  But did you know that in many restaurants the waitstaff has to tip other employees?  In many cases they have to tip the bartenders and also the bussers.  It just depends on company policy.  I've been in a sushi restaurant at closing time when the waitstaff would come to the sushi bar one at a time and tell the chef what their sushi sales were from the night.  He would then tell them what they were to give him...it was generally around 5% of their total sushi sales. 

I remember reading above where one person asked, "why not tip the cooks?"  Well, why not?  It's entirely up to you.  If you want to tip those that cooked your meal, then do so.  I've seen it done many times.

JayL


And with all this OUTRAGE over tipping and how restaurants pay their waitstaff, no one has mentioned who the waitstaff has to tip.  WHAT?!?  The waitstaff has to tip people?

Yet another example of what the general public normally has no idea of. 

You always tip your waitperson, right?  But did you know that in many restaurants the waitstaff has to tip other employees? 

I wrote two paragraphs on it:

(....A busboy will get -minimum- wage plus tips, I think that it works out okay, but that means he is earning more in 4-5 hours than a pantry cook in a 8 hour shift.
I think they all should receive minimum wage nonetheless. There can be very slow nights where they earn very little. It's a crapshoot and if they are sent home early, it's even worse. 

Bartenders do receive minimum wage and usually more per hour, then you can factor in the tips after that. It's a great gig, as the owner knows that a good bartender is what makes the $$$ for the place. I suspect that the waitstaff is envious of that too. And then they also have to tip the bartender at the end of the shift too. ...)

As a cook, I do not want to share the tips with the waitrons, unless I went out of my way to help deal with ridiculous and troublesome orders, or if they screwed up so bad and I made it right.  I will focus on getting the re-order prepared quickly so there is little disruption in the time and other orders. I know they have a hard job and I will work with them instead of penalizing them and the customers. Even then I expect nothing for doing this. It's my job. That said, instead of money, I'll take a back rub for my tired ol' joints....I'm easy.

No, I do not want tips, unless the customer feels obliged to do so, and it has happened. As I wrote, it would be great if the kitchen staff was paid a proper wage. There is a reason why 'Anglos' are not working many kitchens compared to Latinos. The owners are taking advantage of the situation. It's like the the oil companies claiming that while they are making billions in profits but they cannot pass the savings onto you.

mark

I just remembered one of my favorite stories when I honeymooned in Monterey, CA. It was a German restaurant and the service was excellent.  So good that we even personally gave the busboy a tip for his incredibly attentive service.

mark

Methais

Michael Hoffman


I see absolutely no point in tipping for the delivery of apizza when they already tack on a delivery charge.

Most if not all of the delivery charge at most places don't go to the driver. It usually goes to the store and is used to pay their driver insurance, which is pretty expensive.  Even if the driver did get that money, there wouldn't be much if anything left after gas, which is going up in price again.

So start tipping your driver now that you know that, and they'll stop wanting to slash their wrists every time they see your address pop up on the delivery screen. :-P

Nope. Get rid of the delivery charge and I'll go back to tipping.

Michael Hoffman

Methais

Michael Hoffman


I see absolutely no point in tipping for the delivery of apizza when they already tack on a delivery charge.

Most if not all of the delivery charge at most places don't go to the driver. It usually goes to the store and is used to pay their driver insurance, which is pretty expensive.  Even if the driver did get that money, there wouldn't be much if anything left after gas, which is going up in price again.

So start tipping your driver now that you know that, and they'll stop wanting to slash their wrists every time they see your address pop up on the delivery screen. :-P

Nope. Get rid of the delivery charge and I'll go back to tipping.

My policy is essentially the same on the rare occasion that I order room service.  In many places, in addition to the exorbitant prices charged for room service food, there is often a service charge and/or a delivery charge added to the bill.  Thinking back to my last room service experience, a hamburger and bowl of soup ended up costing close to $25 with all of the charges added to the bill.  When the delivery arrived, I asked the guy how much of this money (the upcharges) he got to keep.  He told me that half went to him and half went to the hotel.  Based on what that amounted to in real dollars - and compared to what a comparable tip would have been for a comparable meal, I felt no need for any additional gratuity. 

It is possible that I would have felt differently had it been a regular occurrence - same delivery guy, same place from which the order was placed, etc.  But, as a rule of thumb, if you (a business) are going to charge me for delivery, you have assumed the responsibility to pay your delivery person.