Too early for college football? ('09 Version)

Always remember to preface Lord Tebow's name with the correct title, such as Lord, Master, King, etc.  If you're not sure which one to use, please turn on ESPN, and as soon as one of the anchors gets off his knees, he will help you.

...you must admit he's very impressive. I never said there weren't others that are better.

saps


Always remember to preface Lord Tebow's name with the correct title, such as Lord, Master, King, etc.  If you're not sure which one to use, please turn on ESPN, and as soon as one of the anchors gets off his knees, he will help you.

Not exactly whining, but close enough. Kind of the attitude one would expect from a sap.  pb

Porkbeaks- 

Thank you for your concern and your objectivity.  Obviously, I was mistaken.  The media doesn't really fawn over Tim Tebow, and the University of Florida, as any objective viewer could tell, has played a trying schedule this year.  I'm sorry for putting my opinions on this page, as sarcastic as they are sometimes.  It's good to know that I have you shadowing me to set me straight.  Personally, I didn't think I was worthy of the attention, but it seems to be important for you to pay attention to me, and as it has been going on for some time now, it has become quite flattering.  I think it's great how you get back within minutes after I post.  It's as if you're waiting for me.  I'm looking forward to Florida's first test of the season next week against Alabama.  I hope you are too. 

saps


Porkbeaks-  
Yadda, yadda,yadda...  I'm looking forward to Florida's first test of the season next week against Alabama.  I hope you are too. 

I definitely am looking forward to it. I expect a repeat of last year, but wouldn't be surprised if Alabama wins; this is the SEC after all. I would like to see Auburn play one of those undefeated teams like Boise State or LSU against Cincinnati. Go Gators!  pb  
 

I would too.  Except that a defeat on either end wouldn't really prove anything.

Rough weekend for us here in NE PA, both Pitt and ND went down Both GREAT college games, though, so there's that.

Charlie Weis is officially out at Notre Dame.

no big surpise. Willingham had a better win %

It was reported in the NYTimes that Davie also had a better record.

Here's an overheard from Charley Waters, a long-time gossip sportswriter for the St. Paul Pioneer Press.

Mike Scanlon, who coached Cretin-Derham Hall to the large-school state football championship Friday night at the Metrodome, on why he would not accept the head coaching job at Notre Dame if offered. "Two words: Gerry Faust."

I doubt Notre Dame would ever consider that and make that mistake twice. If money was no object to them as reported they've got to quit pussyfooting around and go after a proven bigtime college coach instead of unproven assistants, so-so record coaches and small timers.

yup, Davie too.

kids don't care. Notre Dame is for old farts. :)

Bobby B. gets to coach FSU in some bowl game & then he's "retiring"...end of an era.

Three supposedly good coaches can't get ND to .600.
 I think the end of an era is true to word. ND may be on the path with some of the other old teams, like Army, Colgate and Bucknell.

ok, maybe not THAT out of date. But the point is, BCS conferences have taken over football. ND's unwillingness to climb on board and join a BCS conference has hurt them. The proof is in the records. They keep sliding further away from relevance.

As per the Cincinnati coach, if I were him, I wouldn't leave CinCin. He's in the Big East and winning, with an easier road to a BCS. He has no real expectations considering the historical dominant teams of the big east in football should be Syracuse, Pitt and West Va. CinCin is joined in the Big East with thier old C-USA foe , Louisville. Beating them, is like Ohio St beating Michigan - it's their true rival game. If CinCin goes .600 over the next three years, CinCin won't fire him.

If that coach goes to ND, he takes on an underachiving team that expects Nat'l Championship contention every year with wins over major teams like USC, Mich, etc.

So, he can make a million a year in CinCin and be a millionaire for a long time, with relatively low expectations. Or go to ND and get multi-millions for probably a shorter time, tons of pressure, and will be in the job hunt sooner than expected if the team doesn't perform to ND high, and unlikely unattainable, standards.

Stay in CinCin.

Scorereader


Three supposedly good coaches can't get ND to .600.

That's a stretch to assume three supposedly good coaches was a problem. It was more likely Notre Dame let too many other considerations and judgments get in the way in hiring those three coaches that eventually proved they might not have been up to the task.

Please! If you are going to nickname Cincinnati it is Cinci not CinCin. You are the only one I have ever read that used that stupid moniker.

As for the Big East, Rich Rodriguiz has not panned out yet in his supposed upgrade jump to Michigan. I'm not sure what to think of the Big East as a football conference. Being a Cincinnati graduate I am extremely happy this year especially if they finish off in beating Pitt, but I have a difficult time believing they could come close to that record if the were in the Big 10, Big 12 or SEC. However, I went to school there when they routinely lost to Miami Ohio so have a lot of past image to overcome. The best part of the game was the over the top showboat drum major at halftime.

bill voss


kids don't care. Notre Dame is for old farts. :)

How about kids that look like old farts?

Davydd
 

Please! If you are going to nickname Cincinnati it is Cinci not CinCin. You are the only one I have ever read that used that stupid moniker.

 
What?  You don't call Minnesota MinMin?

saps

Davydd
 

Please! If you are going to nickname Cincinnati it is Cinci not CinCin. You are the only one I have ever read that used that stupid moniker.

 
What?  You don't call Minnesota MinMin?

No, I call Minnesota SadSad. They are 6 and 6 just like Notre Dame. Newspaper gossip reported Minnesota Coach Tim Brewster has had his home in my Lake Minnetonka neighborhood up for sale. Hmm.

Davydd

Scorereader


Three supposedly good coaches can't get ND to .600.

Please! If you are going to nickname Cincinnati it is Cinci not CinCin. You are the only one I have ever read that used that stupid moniker.

I can call then whatever the hell I want.
 
I've seen it before - you think I made it up? - get real.  I saw it once, and have kept it. Go take your higher than thou attittude and shove it up your @$$.  You don't like it - tough beans.
 
When it comes to crap like that, you really need to get a life.
 
And, I've never seen "Cinci" - I've seen "Cincy" though as a nickname, but not Cinci.
 
What a card you are!
 
 
 
 

I did say "Please". OK, turnabout is fair play I guess. Sillyexcuse for a football team it is until you see the light and show a little respect for a request.

Davydd

Scorereader


Three supposedly good coaches can't get ND to .600.

That's a stretch to assume three supposedly good coaches was a problem. It was more likely Notre Dame let too many other considerations and judgments get in the way in hiring those three coaches that eventually proved they might not have been up to the task.

A stretch? I think not. Perhaps there are ALSO other considerations, but it's not like any of these coaches don't know football. Many people thought Weiss was going to be successful - and at first, he was - going to two straight BCS bowls. Losing both, but still going to those bowls.
 
So, Weiss came in strong. I think blaming him as a coach who couldn't sustain his early success is easily warranted and not a stretch.
 
Considering his early success, I don't see how the University can be blamed on hiring a coach who was successful in the NFL, and then initially successful at ND.
 
or take Bob Davie: who was defensive coordinator under Holtz. Davie's 3-4 attacking defense became standard NCAA defensive scheme. He had successes too as a head coach, which lead to a contract extension after his second 9-3 season. He was fired the next season after opening 0-3 (though they waited to the end of the season - the 0-3 start was the real reason). At the time he was offered the extension, though, there wasn't a huge signal that he wasn't going to be successful over time, even though his ND teams were inconsistent from year to year.
 
In Ty Willinghams first season in 2002: he became the only first-year coach in Notre Dame history to win 10 games and was selected Coach of the Year by three major associations. Not much of an indication at that point that things were not going to go well over time.
 
In hindsight, sure, these coaches didn't work out. But, I have to strongly disagree that at the time, somehow the ND officials didn't do their homework or, as you suggest, they "let too many other considerations and judgments get in the way" of their hiring practices.
 
 

Davydd


I did say "Please". OK, turnabout is fair play I guess. Sillyexcuse for a football team it is until you see the light and show a little respect for a request.

it was the "stupid moniker" that got under my skin.
 
 
Besides, seeing now you went to Cincinatti - I'd think you'd agree that the coach should stay put. Why go to ND. IMO, he's already in the perfect situation: he's over achieving the expectations and making good money to boot. Why go to ND to be a punching bag to alumni?
 
And Rich Rod, IMO, made a huge mistake.
 
As per Cincinatti - It must be a tough transition for alum to absorb when they used to have a tough time again MAC teams and such before becoming a BCS school.  But, that change was huge for them. The level of player they could recruit is totally different than before - even in what was becoming a really good C-USA conference. Cincy may not be a perennial power in the Big East forever, but losses to Miami of Ohio, should be (for the most part) a thing of the past. (Even Penn State lost to Toledo once)
 
Finally, as per Big East football, I think they were/are the most underrated conference this year. They're not great every year since losing Miami, VaTech and BC to the ACC - but this year, I think they're competative - and I think Cincinatti is the real deal - just like WV was under Rich Rod.
 
I'd put the Big East above ACC for certain - as I feel the ACC is wholly overrated. Big East is not the Big Least this season.
 
 
 
 

To Bill Voss, Scorereader and anyone who thinks Notre dame is "Irrelevant"
and only for "Old Farts"

On ESPN.com Monday---ND is mentioned in 5 of the top 10 articles --including
Bobby Bowden's retirement and Tiger Wood's indiscretions.

On a day when Bowden and Wood should have dominated the sports headlines-
the simple firing of a mediocre coach in South Bend is the top story.

ESPN had a reporter standing by on campus at ND all day Sun and Mon.

You are not irrevelent when USA Today has you on the front page 4 out of 7 days.

And ------OLD FARTS like me do not sit on the computer reading and twittering (or whatever it is called) ---we don't even understand 1/2 of it.  No, it was YOUNG
FARTS who are ND Fans that closed down the ND websites, blogs, etc.  because of overloads. 

The Irish will rise again.  Irish since 1936.  Go Irish !!!!!!

Old farts never switch---once a fan always a fan----it is something called
being faithful.  Davy will be a Minnesota fan forever---Joe Rogo will love PSU through
thick and thin------and Notre Dame haters will always hate.  

Other than basketball Cincinnati has historically given up its successful coaches to perceived more prestigious conferences and schools once they have achieved success. It is almost a given and apparently being in the Big East BCS conference hasn't changed that. They already gave up Dantonio to Michigan State. If Brian Kelly goes it would be no surprise. Cincinnati, unfortunately, will probably always be out recruited by Ohio State in the home state of Ohio.

Cincinnati is kind of a sleeper and unique university. When I went there in 1962 - 68 it was primarily privately endowed but also city and state funded as a university. Other than basketball, the rest of the sports were second tier. Back then they had 26,000 full time students and 11,000 part time night time extension college students. That was fairly large then but the campus was known as a "street car" campus with so many students from and living all about Cincinnati. They were a top rated school in medicine, engineering and design. My college, Design, Architecture, Art & Planning (DAAP) was under a coop plan where you went to school full time the first two years then co-oped working alternate quarters with school. Our architecture students were from all over the country and they also worked in LA, SF, Boston, Chicago and NY, etc. That was very enriching. Since practical experience was mostly taking place in the work place, the university was heavily into design and less so in practical skills teaching. It also took 6 years to earn what 5 years took at other schools. The best part is because of the interrupted quarters all our classes were confined to mostly the DAAP building separated from the campus at the time in Burnett Woods and our classes were small. With about 900 students in DAAP and half off at work it felt more like a small college than a big university. Being art and design types we were viewed a bit more "Bohemian" by the rest of the campus. We really weren't but you could not avoid wearing paint smeared shirts and trousers and carrying rolled up drawings and canvases about the school.

It may be different today but I am proud that DAAP still ranks always in the top 5 schools competing with the Ivy League and other prestigious schools.

Davydd


Charlie Weis is officially out at Notre Dame.

I've heard rumblings that a few NFL teams are interested in talking with him about becoming an offensive coordinator again, and I won't be at all surprised if that's what he's doing next season.
 
Brad

Ancient,

I've always been a Notre Dame fan since the days of Paul Hornung, the prototype for today's Tim Tebow. The 1966 Notre Dame/Michigan State was one of my all-time favorite games I watched. My fellow all-state backfield mate, Billy O'Neal, at Speedway High School got a full ride scholarship to Notre Dame but in basketball not football. After breaking bones twice he gave up football. He was an Indiana All-star in basketball as well.

But my schools are Cincinnati of course. I also follow Minnesota because my son and a daughter went there and I taught extension college on campus a few years. So with nearly 40 years in Minnesota I am practically a Minnesotan. You can add Wisconsin since my other daughter attended there and my son is now an instructor at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse and my daughter-in-law is a professor there. I cheer Wyoming because my son and daughter-in-law got their masters degrees there. I also have an affinity for Pittsburgh where my daughter-in-law got her PhD. We visited enough times to grow fond of Pittsburgh. My daughter-in-law taught classes in the Cathedral of Learning international restored classrooms. The Cathedral of Learning is the single-most greatest campus building in the United States as far as I am concerned.

What do Elin and USC have in common?

Both beat up Tigers this weekend

I see your point about Big East coaches leaving for better programs. Still, I think he'd be out of his mind to go to ND. And as I said, Rich Rodriguez made a huge mistake.

Ancientmariner: I'm not so much a hater of ND, rather than just an observer. I've seen a once nationally relevant program slowly deteriorate in this current BCS system. It's not good for ND.

The only reason ND stays relevant in the news, is their TV deal with NBC, and they schedule BCS conference teams. But which page the media puts ND is not of consequence to hs recruits who are beginning to see ND as an older-era football power - not a "modern" one. Could that change? sure it could. 

The Army v. Navy game gets a ton of press too, but no one watches because of national implications.  And, ND couldn't beat Navy - two years running.

I would think, that ND would be better off with regards to recruiting if there was not this BCS bowl situation, and conference locks on bowls. Rather, a playoff system. Which would give ND the same opportunity as every other school with regards to post-season play.

Play for Big Ten and win? Rose Bowl automatic, same for PAC-10. Win the ACC? you're going to Orange Bowl., etc. down the line. ND doesn't have the automatic tie-in, and a playoff would eliminate those tie-ins and give ND a "fighting" chance.

But, I don't think the bowl situation will change anytime soon. That, IMO, does not bode well for ND, unless they join a bcs conference.
  

Wow Dave your extended family is keeping the educational system jumping.
  You must be very proud.  I forgot you went to CinCin--isn't that stupid name---sounds sooo effeminate.  Reminds me of a breathe freshener from my "yout".

I loved Paul Hornung------heard the Mel Kiper thinks Meyer should leave Flo for ND because he will never get another Tebow. 

Scorereader

Davydd

Scorereader


Three supposedly good coaches can't get ND to .600.

That's a stretch to assume three supposedly good coaches was a problem. It was more likely Notre Dame let too many other considerations and judgments get in the way in hiring those three coaches that eventually proved they might not have been up to the task.

A stretch? I think not. Perhaps there are ALSO other considerations, but it's not like any of these coaches don't know football. Many people thought Weiss was going to be successful - and at first, he was - going to two straight BCS bowls. Losing both, but still going to those bowls.
 
So, Weiss came in strong. I think blaming him as a coach who couldn't sustain his early success is easily warranted and not a stretch.
 
Considering his early success, I don't see how the University can be blamed on hiring a coach who was successful in the NFL, and then initially successful at ND.
 
or take Bob Davie: who was defensive coordinator under Holtz. Davie's 3-4 attacking defense became standard NCAA defensive scheme. He had successes too as a head coach, which lead to a contract extension after his second 9-3 season. He was fired the next season after opening 0-3 (though they waited to the end of the season - the 0-3 start was the real reason). At the time he was offered the extension, though, there wasn't a huge signal that he wasn't going to be successful over time, even though his ND teams were inconsistent from year to year.
 
In Ty Willinghams first season in 2002: he became the only first-year coach in Notre Dame history to win 10 games and was selected Coach of the Year by three major associations. Not much of an indication at that point that things were not going to go well over time.
 
In hindsight, sure, these coaches didn't work out. But, I have to strongly disagree that at the time, somehow the ND officials didn't do their homework or, as you suggest, they "let too many other considerations and judgments get in the way" of their hiring practices.
 
 

It's all opinion but I think in hindsight it could be interpreted as a stretch since none of their overall records reached .600 despite some early successes and their staying power waned. Maybe given the initial successes with the previous coaches' recruits that Notre Dame might be guilty of a bit of impatience? Regardless, this time around, Notre Dame can ill-afford to gamble on unproven coaches and assistants again. They are in an all or nothing situation this time. Even Brian Kelly at Cincinnati has not cycled through his own recruits to prove he has the staying power. I was surprised to learn, though, that Cincinnati has the highest graduation rate of the top 10 rated BCS schools. That's a major departure from Cincinnati's sports history. That might get Notre Dame's attention.