Too early for college football? ('09 Version)

Joseph---I tell you what----let's hold off until January-----
most of the pundits are wrong most of the time anyhow. 
How about a ND/PSU bowl game.  That should settle it.

Your right about the Big 10 or 11 or whatever it is---Purdue, N'western, Minn, Wisc,  
Ill and Ind really weaken that conference, and then the best team OSU gets kicked around in the bowls-----what ever happened to the cloud of dust.  Bo and Woody
are gone but not forgotten. 

ancient mariner: I don't know why you are assuming Penn State will lose at home to Ohio State. In the past 4 years of OSU winning the Big Ten, Penn State has shared 2 of those Big Ten Championship by beating Ohio State and representing the Big 10 because of the head to head wins. Penn State won its BCS game the first time and lost the 2nd time.

Aside from OSU's beat downs in some recent Nat'l Championship games, let's not forget, that they won the title in 2002.

And, in recent years, two teams from the Big Ten have played in a BCS game. When that happens, the other bowl eligible teams get upped (the #3 team plays in the #2 spot and so on down) this has actually hurt the Big Ten, as the match-ups have not been favorable. But, I should point out, that Penn State has held up their end of the bargain - in the past 4 years, they are 3-1 - losing last year (the 08 season), but wins in bowl games for the 07, 06 and 05 seasons.

Penn State has played in the Big Ten for 16 seasons. They've been to 12 bowl games, and are 9-3 in those games. They have won the Rose, Citrus, Outback (3), Fiesta,  Alamo(2) and Orange Bowls. In those wins they beat teams from: SEC (4x), Pac-10, Big 12 (3x) and ACC.

Losses came to SEC (2) and Pac-10.

So, since joining the Big-Ten, Penn State, is 9-3 in post season play and hold a 4-2 record over the SEC, a 3-0 record over Big 12, 1-0 over ACC and are 1-1 vs. Pac-10.

Why people crap on PSU, is beyond me. 

quote=the ancient mariner



We both play Mich and MSU--
 
Bad assumption: You lose to Ohio St and we lose to USC
If you look at preseason polls (which can'tr be trusted 0 but we have no choice, since we're looking at who has the tougher load before the season starts)

PSU----------Notre Dame

Akron--------Nevada ----------even up Actually Nevada whould be better
Syracuse----Navy---------------Navy tougher May not be true this year - you gotta let Syr. show they are that bad. neither recieved voteds, so you HAVE to say EVEN
Temple -----Stanford-----------Stanford maybe true - but Stanford didn't get one vote either.
Iowa---------Pitt       -----------even Stephen Iowa better - did you not watch football last season? Iowa is RANKED Pitt is not, Iowa is tougher
Illinois-------Boston College---BC easy NOT: Illinois has higher preseason rating. Another one in favor of PSU
E. Illinois----Conn    ------------Conn in a walk true
Minn----------Wash--------------even I would lean with Minn - they're on the up - Wash is terrible and aren't expected to be any better - son't get fooled with reputation. Minnesota got a vote, Wash didn't again, PSU gets the preseason tougher team.
N'western---Purdue------------even  Again, NU got votes, Purdue didn't. NU is tougher on paper. 
Indiana------Wash St----------Wash St maybe - both Wash and Wash St do not look any good, but IU should be near/at the bottom of Big Ten. So, I'd say even, not clearly Wash St. Since neither rec'd votes, you have to say EVEN

if you're trying to judge the tougher road, before any game is played, you then need to resort on preseason polls, and Penn State has the tougher road, than ND:
 
Penn State plays 2 top 25 teams, ND plays 1. Penn State plays more top 50 teams as well.
 
It's not a screamingly more difficult road, but on paper, PSU has the tougher haul...Despite Phil Steele's analysis using last years records as the basis for his ranking.
 
And how do you know Phil Steele is an imbecile? He put Syracuse at #30!!!!????!!?!?!?!?
They play in the big east! They're even playing a 1-AA team! you've GOT to be kidding.
FSU at #1? They don't even play the preseason ACC best team. They play a 1-AA team in non-conference.  You cannot take Phil Steele's analysis seriously.
 
 
 

It IS too early to be talking college football if all you can discuss is Notre Dame and Penn State.

Notre Dame football is a joke, I can't believe people still talk about them like the 4 horsemen are still playing...

Davydd-
I am hearing good things about the Gopher's new stadium.  A team in Minnesota absolutely shouldn be playing football outdoors.  If tickets aren't too hard to get, I may try and get to a game this year.

Actually Penn State is my second favorite team because I always liked Joe Paterno since I saw him play for Brooklyn Prep against St John's Prep. I think it was 1944.  
Even then I was a big Notre Dame fan----since 1935 actually.

But Joe Rogo and I kid each other about the two teams------it is all in fun.

I never get crazy about something I can do nothing about-----life is too short to be nasty, or get upset about college football.

And Gee
G Needles
Be nice
To Weis
He's a Jersey guy.

the ancient mariner


Actually Penn State is my second favorite team because I always liked Joe Paterno since I saw him play for Brooklyn Prep against St John's Prep. I think it was 1944.  
Even then I was a big Notre Dame fan----since 1935 actually.

But Joe Rogo and I kid each other about the two teams------it is all in fun.

I never get crazy about something I can do nothing about-----life is too short to be nasty, or get upset about college football.

And Gee
G Needles
Be nice
To Weis
He's a Jersey guy.

 
Jeez, Are they saying that there are other teams besides PSU and ND
 
Who woulda thunk!

Scorereader





And how do you know Phil Steele is an imbecile? He put Syracuse at #30!!!!????!!?!?!?!?
They play in the big east! They're even playing a 1-AA team! you've GOT to be kidding.
FSU at #1? They don't even play the preseason ACC best team. They play a 1-AA team in non-conference.  You cannot take Phil Steele's analysis seriously.
 
 
 

 
I am now looking at a copy of  Phil Steele's "College 2009 Football Preview"
 
On page 315,  Syracuse is listed as #99  in the Power Poll Top 120.

Yea Joe ---Strange things are happening. 
The world is bigger than we thought.

Hey Grey how come your reading such high class literature.  I thought you limited yourself to the Daily Telegraph.

buffetbuster


Davydd-
I am hearing good things about the Gopher's new stadium.  A team in Minnesota absolutely shouldn be playing football outdoors.  If tickets aren't too hard to get, I may try and get to a game this year.

It appears to be a state of the art class A stadium. Since it seats more people than they averaged at the Metrodome, tickets might be available. But who knows? Here is the website on it.

http://stadium.gophersports.com/

Don't forget the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers had won 6 national championships in football. The glory years could come back with this move.

Greymo

Scorereader





And how do you know Phil Steele is an imbecile? He put Syracuse at #30!!!!????!!?!?!?!?
They play in the big east! They're even playing a 1-AA team! you've GOT to be kidding.
FSU at #1? They don't even play the preseason ACC best team. They play a 1-AA team in non-conference.  You cannot take Phil Steele's analysis seriously.
 
 
 

 
I am now looking at a copy of  Phil Steele's "College 2009 Football Preview"
 
On page 315,  Syracuse is listed as #99  in the Power Poll Top 120.

That's the power poll, I'm talking about Strength of Schedule Poll. The conversation was about ND's strength of schedule v. Penn State's -not their power poll positions.
 
I missed one aspect though, as of July 29, he put South Carolina ahead of FSU - in an earlier version on his website, he had FSU in 1st. (keep in mind, he changes his SOS all Spring long - he says, due to scheduling changes - although schedules don't chage much from April to July - so his print version of his rankings are at the time of the publishing)
 
see Orlando Sentinel article on SOS: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2009/07/phil-steeles-toughest-schedule.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

BTW - I should point out, that Steele has a history of overrating the ACC and FLorida teams in general _ look at his history of Florida and ACC schools in his preseason poll and final AP poll results  (see Clemson from last year). But FSU at #2? He must have a high regard for the ACC this year - and to put FSU at the top of SOS in the ACC when they don't play the supposed top team in the ACC (VaTech) and they play a 1-AA team is a little odd in the least.
 

Minnesota Golden Gophers - ---"The Glory Years could come back with this move". 

Davy I hate to say this,  but unless this move means moving the stadium to where the weather is hot and so are the girls, Minny-so-ta's glory years are just a golden dream. 

They were great years ago.

the ancient mariner


I believe football played in college should be between two teams whose students are in college to get an education.  It ain't that way no mo'. 
 

I agree completely.  College sports is out of control and a complete joke.  I'd like to roll it all back to about 1950 when the kids were students and they had fun playing a little ball on the side.

Oh, and  GO HAWKEYES!!!!

WarToad

the ancient mariner


I believe football played in college should be between two teams whose students are in college to get an education.  It ain't that way no mo'. 
 

I agree completely.  College sports is out of control and a complete joke.  I'd like to roll it all back to about 1950 when the kids were students and they had fun playing a little ball on the side.

unless you plan on eliminating pro-football - or somehow find a way to make pro-footbal salaries on par with those pro salaries of the 50's, that'll never happen. What you're talking about doesn't happen in high school. Since kids are striving for multi-million dollar contracts - they have to start training at a young age. It may not be "right" but it's the situation when this kind of money is on the line for these elite players.
 
But, your attitude is a bit over the top. To begin with, while we - like ESPN, focus on the top athletes, the vast majority of college football players are not pursuing professional sports as a career. Only 1% of these athletes will make it. Another 2-3% are hoping tey have a shot. The rest of the 97% know that college is the end of their sports career - and football is "on the side."
 
If you want that to be the case for ALL players, start watching D-III football. The play level with remind you of the 50's, and none of the players are on scholarship and football is definately on the side in the scheme of their education -although, they workout in the gym and practice an awful lot for an unpaid, part-time, no future endeavor. They certainly do play for the love of the game.
 
I whole-heartedly disagree with you that college sports is a complete joke. As an Iowa fan, I suggest you go to Iowa City and tell that to their varsity wrestling team. They'd be glad to roll you back to 1950 - you may never return
 
 

I made a trip through the Holy Land today.
 

 
I'll bet there isn't anything that high in South Bend, or all of Minnesota

Gators start the season at #1 in the AP Poll .

The first Saturday (Sept. 5th) of the season has its usual batch of mismatches, but there are some real interesting games; 'Bama is at VA Tech, Boise St. hosts Oregon & BYU visits Okla. Then on Labor Day night, Miami's at FSU. That should shake up the polls a bit.

big 12 coaches/youngstown connection:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1408190.html

So. Carolina over NC State 7-3.
Boise St. over Oregon 19-8.

Looks like the defenses are more than a little ahead of the offenses this early in the season.

How about the fireworks after the Boise St.-Oregon game last night!
 
Brad

FYI - Today is National College Colors Day - so wear your college gear today with pride!



We are...

PENN STATE

Notre Dame and Penn State both have relatively easy schedules.   Arguing about some of the teams that ND and PSU play is like choosing who is worse between the Royals, Orioles, Pirates and Nationals in MLB- they are all lousy. 

Notre Dame has had some top 10 recruiting classes in the last several years, so I don't think it's time to call them dead yet.  I don't know enough about the inner operations in most schools as to whether "they do it right" or not, but on the surface, they sure seem to.  As far as Notre Dame and their training tables, there are a lot of rumblings that that is about to change soon and Notre Dame players will be having a training table. 

In my opinion, if you're going to watch college athletics, don't mix the word "education" in there.  The elite programs are high-revenue producing profit centers for the universities- and I don't think that any program goes unscathed in bending requirements for high level athletes.
 
 

We University of Oregon fans are mightily embarassed after our running back threw that punch at the Boise State player and tried to punch a few fans. Thank God the Oregon coaches, the Oregon players and the Boise State  fans, coaches and players all kept their heads and the situation did not get worse. The running back has been suspended for the year and has gone from a draft pick to nothing. This is one of the worst moments in U of O history. I am glad the school took quick and decisive action.

saps




In my opinion, if you're going to watch college athletics, don't mix the word "education" in there.  The elite programs are high-revenue producing profit centers for the universities- and I don't think that any program goes unscathed in bending requirements for high level athletes.
 
 

Yes, the Penn State women's volleyball team (the most elite women's volleyball program in the country for the past few years) is really raking it in.

I'll clarify.  Elite football and basketball programs (primarily) are large revenue generators for the universities that help subsidize other programs, such as women's volleyball, wrestling, etc.  The revenues are not specifically applied to the program that is producing them, but the lion's share certainly does go into the high-producing program.  

 

ND has a big game with Michigan.  Maybe The Mariner will come out of hibernation

While BYU over OK was the upset of the week, I think the Miami-FSU contest was the best game of the week, with the winner not known until the last few seconds. This would have made a great bowl game...the fact that it was in the season's first weekend was just icing on the cake.

And the fact that I am a UM grad and HUGE Hurricanes fan made it even better....although I think I lost 5 lbs during the game

saps


I'll clarify.  Elite football and basketball programs (primarily) are large revenue generators for the universities that help subsidize other programs, such as women's volleyball, wrestling, etc.  The revenues are not specifically applied to the program that is producing them, but the lion's share certainly does go into the high-producing program.  

 

Yes, those sports help other students athletes achieve success. And the vast majority of NCAA participants do not go pro in their sport.
 
Also, money from these programs go to programs in their conference that do not have the large funds. For example, when Penn State went to the Rose Bowl, Indiana Athletic Department got some of the cash. And thta cash goes to the football program and other sports programs.
 
However, to say education doesn't play into it, is a very narrow view. These athletes get a free education for their efforts. And they use that education to get jobs in the fields of their major.
 
I hear pro-sport fans say all the time that college is just as corrupt as the NFL or NBA.   They use the TV money and bowl money to "prove" their point. But, the comparison is laughable. The argument is used to make themself feel better about wearing a Mike Vick shirt - even though, if Mike Vick had sone that in college, he'd be out.
 
Take the Oregon player who punched the Boise State player. He's OUT of college football. Ron Artest is still playing basketball, though -earning millions.
 
Education, is the absolutely still a major factor in NCAA sports - across the board. The money generated is used to promote the colleges to get the best students and student athletes to attend their university. Penn State athletes team had an 84% graduation rate. Wheaton College, in your neck of the woods, was only 2% higher, at 86%. Wheaton is a private school, Penn State is a state school. I'd say that Penn State is doing a pretty good job with their student athletes - getting them degrees. So, education is no joke at Penn State.
 
 

Scorereader

saps


I'll clarify.  Elite football and basketball programs (primarily) are large revenue generators for the universities that help subsidize other programs, such as women's volleyball, wrestling, etc.  The revenues are not specifically applied to the program that is producing them, but the lion's share certainly does go into the high-producing program.  

 

Yes, those sports help other students athletes achieve success. And the vast majority of NCAA participants do not go pro in their sport.
 
Also, money from these programs go to programs in their conference that do not have the large funds. For example, when Penn State went to the Rose Bowl, Indiana Athletic Department got some of the cash. And thta cash goes to the football program and other sports programs.
 
However, to say education doesn't play into it, is a very narrow view. These athletes get a free education for their efforts. And they use that education to get jobs in the fields of their major.
 
I hear pro-sport fans say all the time that college is just as corrupt as the NFL or NBA.   They use the TV money and bowl money to "prove" their point. But, the comparison is laughable. The argument is used to make themself feel better about wearing a Mike Vick shirt - even though, if Mike Vick had sone that in college, he'd be out.
 
Take the Oregon player who punched the Boise State player. He's OUT of college football. Ron Artest is still playing basketball, though -earning millions.
 
Education, is the absolutely still a major factor in NCAA sports - across the board. The money generated is used to promote the colleges to get the best students and student athletes to attend their university. Penn State athletes team had an 84% graduation rate. Wheaton College, in your neck of the woods, was only 2% higher, at 86%. Wheaton is a private school, Penn State is a state school. I'd say that Penn State is doing a pretty good job with their student athletes - getting them degrees. So, education is no joke at Penn State.
 
 

Not really looking for an anrgument here.  When I'm watching college games, I'm focused on the athletes and not their education.  College sports aren't corrupt as a whole, although there is corruption within the system.  There is a lot of favoritism towards athletes in their within the elite programs, - even at such places as Penn State, Notre Dame, etc.  For all I know, Curtis Enis could have been running behind a lineman who was a Rhodes Scholar.
 
As to Wheaton College, that's pretty interesting.  I'm curious as to how grad rates are determined.  Both for colleges/universities as a whole as well as athletics.  Do you have any insight on this?  I don't, but if someone knows, I'd be curious to know.
 
Wheaton is an interesting school.  It's very religious and I believe it was founded by Billy Graham.  In fact, when you go there, you have to sign a document that you won't drink (alcohol, not all fluids) for the entire duration of your education, which includes holidays and summers, even if you're off-campus.

Scorereader


Take the Oregon player who punched the Boise State player. He's OUT of college football. Ron Artest is still playing basketball, though -earning millions.

 

I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to be getting much publicity, but even though Oregon basically ended Blount's college football career with the suspension he's not being stripped of his scholarship, which means he'll have the opportunity to complete his education and still make something of himself.  I don't know whether he will or not or even what his declared major is, but he's not being tossed completely on the scrap heap.  I hope he realizes this and takes advantage.
 
Brad

That's the second chance. No second chance at playing ball again, but a chance to make something of himself.

saps, I picked Wheaton because of your location and did the comparison. There's some formula. I found the stats online, but not on how they achieved those stats.

Athletic stats tend to be lower than actual graduation rates, because they don't take into account other factors, like transfering to another school.

I like the Curtis Enis reference. Another great penn state back who was lucky to have his college degree to fall back on, since his professional career was less than stellar - heck it was less than "alright." - in fact, closer to "pretty darn bad."

With its two-game "pre-season" over, Florida opens its SEC schedule by hosting Tennessee, whose coach has given the Gators all sorts of bulletin board fodder. It should be interesting!

Tennessee couldn't take care of UCLA at home, I don't think UF needs to worry.

Umm, what happened to the optimistic Notre Dame talk?

cavandre


Miami's first four games are FSU (#19), Georgia Tech (#15), Virginia Tech (#7) and then Oklahoma (#3). That's a brutal way to open a season!

Miami's 2-0 & seems to be getting better each week. They now have 9 days to get ready for VA Tech. This could get real interesting!

I have to agree, Miami might be a dark horse in the ACC.

While #1 & #2 both won, neither looked all that formidable against unranked opponents. Of course they both looked better than #3, who lost to Washington. Did anyone see that old fashioned a$$ whuppin' FSU threw at #7 BYU coming?

Florida #1 Texas #2,who knows how this will play out?

South Carolina beats Ole Miss 16-10. Two surprises in one game; SC beats a team in the top 5 & a Spurrier team wins because of its Defense.
 
So another top 5 team takes a hit...wonder who's next?

cavandre


South Carolina beats Ole Miss 16-10. Two surprises in one game; SC beats a team in the top 5 & a Spurrier team wins because of its Defense.
 
So another top 5 team takes a hit...wonder who's next?

 
It's breakin my heart to say this.  But I believe PSU is next.
 
Not a word Zio!

Joseph my boy, The Patron Saint of PSU football (JoePa) will
whoop those Hog farmers----have no fear.  Now that the Nittany Lions
are finished playing around with Akron and Temple and the like they
will get down to business. 

In the mean time------the Fighting Irish will have their hands
full with Frank Purdue and his chicks.  I know Frank misspelled
his name all those years, but chicken pluckers ain't too smart anyhow. 
He had his oven stuffed with roasters and money though !!!!!!!!!!

the ancient mariner


Joseph my boy, The Patron Saint of PSU football (JoePa) will
whoop those Hog farmers----have no fear.  Now that the Nittany Lions
are finished playing around with Akron and Temple and the like they
will get down to business.  

Here's the bowl. Sorry, Ancient.
 

Joe Pa threw the game---his God Father from Brook-a-lean told him
the spread and promised him another broken leg, or worse yet already. 
I was busy watching ND win big time ( no nails left on my fingers), but from
what I have read Paterno no longer coachs, he gives general directions and the assistants run the show---and they are running it into the coal filled grounds of PA.

Guiseppe Rogo-------it was a good game for the first few PSU plays I understand---then it was dullsville until Iowa got going.  Maybe JoePa will retire now and come down to St Pete and relax, he is getting gray.  He deserves a break.

And so they fall. ND's loss to (at that time) unranked Michigan now doesn't look so bad compared to the thrashings taken by Cal, USC, PSU, Ole Miss, FSU, UNC, Wash... and the squeakers won by Mich, Houston, Georgia, TCU, LSU, and Cincy.

Never before has "ranked" so much meant "opinion" as now. The only team I see really better than the rest is Florida. Good for them that they have a off week before coming up on LSU. It will be interesting to see if LSU, Arkansas, SoCar and Georgia will rise to the challenge.

Mosca, don't know how you can call PSU's loss a "thrashing." They were leading the game into the 4th quarter.
Iowa was underranked, and PSU was overranked for sure. I never thought PSU was #4/5 in the country. Probably 12th-20th. Iowa should be in the same neighborhood.

If Florida loses Tebow, they're done. Texas IMO is the best team in the country. They were better than OU last year, and they're better this year, too.

Va Tech is overrated - by fact that Miami was not a top 10 team in the country - not even close.

So is CinCin. They're 4-0 against teams no better than those Wisconsin has beaten, and Wisconsin is not ranked.

So if that's all that Paterno does, it's really time for him to step aside.  Great coach, great career.  Time to ahead off into the sunset.

I've never hear that about Paterno. In fact, I've heard the opposite, that he's very involved. That information came from an on campus source. The papers would like people to think he's not active - partly because I think they doubt it. But the assistants don't run the show. Joe does give them latitude, to a point, and allows them to do their jobs. After that loss, however, I think the leash will be tightened.

With a QB getting his first college start, USF beat one of Florida's big 3 in their own house and the game wasn't near as close as the score might indicate. Their defense out-hit & out-hustled the FSU offense for all four quarters. It seemed that every kid on the UCF squad wanted to let the FSU recruiters know that they made a big mistake when they didn't offer them a schlorship.

the ancient mariner


Joe Pa threw the game---his God Father from Brook-a-lean told him
the spread and promised him another broken leg, or worse yet already. 
I was busy watching ND win big time ( no nails left on my fingers), but from
what I have read Paterno no longer coachs, he gives general directions and the assistants run the show---and they are running it into the coal filled grounds of PA.

Guiseppe Rogo-------it was a good game for the first few PSU plays I understand---then it was dullsville until Iowa got going.  Maybe JoePa will retire now and come down to St Pete and relax, he is getting gray.  He deserves a break.

 
Now, Now,  Don't go struttin too much.  You may see Charlie on the beach before JoePa

You have a better chance of seeing Charlie at the buffet table than the beach.

saps


You have a better chance of seeing Charlie at the buffet table than the beach.

Charlie on the beach, belly up with people taking pictures...

Just wait a ------ing minute.  That's my coach your making fun of.  I
admit he is a chubby, but let's see how many Roadfooders can pass
the "I look great in a bathing suit" test.  Let he who is without fat throw
the first rock.  

I can sit here in my condo and look down at the pool---not
too many great figures, cause as Carol Channing once sang "We all loose
our shape in the end".    By the way what is the name of the Maryland coach ?
He must outweigh Charlie by 100#------

Actually, I don't care what a coach looks like if the team is winning. 
Bob Davies, Ty Willingham and Gary Faust were all thin losing coachs at ND.

So eat, drink and make merry we are 3-1 so far.  Keep winning Charles, ol' boy.

Got my fingers crossed vs Washington !!!!!

Aw heck, he's my coach too, nothin' says we can't laugh at our own... and I couldn't pass that test, although my girth is less the fat ass type and more the huge belly type.

Mosca-------a win vs Washington, a week to rest our wounds and then the
big one---USC at home-----if we win that game ND fans won't care about
Charlie's shape, just his figure(s)-------we got screwed by the push by Bush
so we are owed one------and this year would be the time.  Go Irish

Hey Joe------forgive us for not mentioning JoePa but he has had the limelight
much too long---time to fold up his game plan and silently steal away.