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 True Kosher Dills

Change Page: 12 > | Showing page 1 of 2, messages 1 to 30 of 58
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The-Porcus

  • Total Posts: 32
  • Joined: 10/4/2003
  • Location: Cambridge, MA
True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 12:44 AM (permalink)
For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?
 
#1
    Rick F.

    • Total Posts: 1736
    • Joined: 8/16/2002
    • Location: Natchitoches, LA
    RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 3:15 AM (permalink)
    Vlasic
     
    #2
      Mayhaw Man

      • Total Posts: 589
      • Joined: 7/5/2003
      • Location: Abita Springs, LA
      RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 8:26 AM (permalink)
      quote:
      Originally posted by The-Porcus

      For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

      I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

      While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?


      How is the pickle preserved if they are not put in some kind of brine? What keeps the pickles from drying out during the first couple of days?
      Explain yourself, man! There could be grounds for charges of Cucumber Abuse or maybe Cruelty to a Cucumber.
       
      #3
        lleechef

        • Total Posts: 6208
        • Joined: 3/22/2003
        • Location: Gahanna, OH
        RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 11:44 AM (permalink)
        You tell 'em Mayhaw!!
         
        #4
          Rusty246

          • Total Posts: 2413
          • Joined: 7/15/2003
          • Location: Newberry, FL
          RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 12:18 PM (permalink)
          I go Claussen! After we finish off a jar, I just take some pickling cukes, make spears out of em' and put in the same jar the pickles came in. In about a week, they're pretty darn good.
           
          #5
            Kristi S.

            • Total Posts: 712
            • Joined: 7/23/2002
            • Location: St. Petersburg/Tampa, FL
            RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 10/9/03 4:11 PM (permalink)
            Ba-tampte
             
            #6
              howard8

              • Total Posts: 355
              • Joined: 5/12/2003
              • Location: randolph, NJ
              RE: True Kosher Dills Fri, 10/17/03 2:40 PM (permalink)
              Schorrs sour and half-sour, for my taste are better than Ba-tampte. I also use the left over brine to season my cucumbers. I look forward to someone giving a recipe, sans vinegar.
               
              #7
                Grampy

                • Total Posts: 1559
                • Joined: 10/14/2002
                • Location: Greenfield, MA
                RE: True Kosher Dills Fri, 10/17/03 4:29 PM (permalink)
                For real pickles, take 20 small kirby cukes (uwaxed and bumpy) and scrub under cold water. Bring 3/4 cup kosher salt in cold water to a boil, turn off heat, and let cool. This is your brine. Meanwile, smack about 16 garlic cloves with the back of a large knife. Distribute equally into canning jars with cukes. Divide 1 bunch of dill, 6 or so bay leaves, and 4 small hot peppers into jars. Divide 3 TBS pickling spices (mustard seeds, perppercorns, coriander seeds, and dill seeds) into jars. Add brine to totally cover. Put lids on tight and shake. Set in a cool, dark place. Remove the lids once a day and spoon off any foam that might form. Cover and shake. You will have half sour after about 4-5 days, and sour after about a week. Refrigerate -- if any are left. This is what they do at the Second Ave Deli in NYC. Rob
                 
                #8
                  The-Porcus

                  • Total Posts: 32
                  • Joined: 10/4/2003
                  • Location: Cambridge, MA
                  RE: True Kosher Dills Sat, 10/18/03 6:41 AM (permalink)
                  quote:
                  Originally posted by Mayhaw Man

                  quote:
                  Originally posted by The-Porcus

                  For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

                  I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

                  While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?


                  How is the pickle preserved if they are not put in some kind of brine? What keeps the pickles from drying out during the first couple of days?
                  Explain yourself, man! There could be grounds for charges of Cucumber Abuse or maybe Cruelty to a Cucumber.


                  Hey Mr. Mayhaw - who said "no brine"? Kosher salt (mentioned in my first posting) is the medium as Grampy in his quite different recipe illustrates.

                  I said "no vinegar" and that doesn't have anything to do with brine. When my fishermen forbears spoke of someone"lost in the briney deeps", I don't think they were chanting about drowning in vats of vinegar .
                   
                  #9
                    The-Porcus

                    • Total Posts: 32
                    • Joined: 10/4/2003
                    • Location: Cambridge, MA
                    RE: True Kosher Dills Sat, 10/18/03 6:47 AM (permalink)
                    Just to put my two cents in on my own question - up here in Canada there is a company called Strub's that does have true kosher dills. The brine is cloudy and a warning comes on the bottle not to equate that with any unwanted deterioration of the product. We get Claussen's but no variety that is without vinegar, the natural enemy of the cucumber!
                     
                    #10
                      Argent

                      • Total Posts: 125
                      • Joined: 6/1/2003
                      • Location: new market, MD
                      RE: True Kosher Dills Sat, 10/18/03 7:50 AM (permalink)
                      At Atmans deli in Baltimore Md, They have real pickle barelles. They have a choice of Cucumbers, tomatos , Etc . Grab tongs and fish your own.
                       
                      #11
                        howard8

                        • Total Posts: 355
                        • Joined: 5/12/2003
                        • Location: randolph, NJ
                        RE: True Kosher Dills Fri, 10/24/03 8:47 AM (permalink)
                        The-Porcus:
                        I am interested in the results of Grampy's recipe. Let us know if you try it. Anyone know if there is a downside to refrigerate the mixture from the start?
                         
                        #12
                          Grampy

                          • Total Posts: 1559
                          • Joined: 10/14/2002
                          • Location: Greenfield, MA
                          RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 11:02 AM (permalink)
                          You really don't want to refrigerate the pickles for the first few days, because they need to ferment at room temperature to create a true brine. Brine works as a preservative, just as refrigeration does, but they are at cross-purposes when used together. This method actually goes back to ancient Egypt, although I learned it from the owner of the 2nd Ave Deli only recently.
                           
                          #13
                            howard8

                            • Total Posts: 355
                            • Joined: 5/12/2003
                            • Location: randolph, NJ
                            RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 1:31 PM (permalink)
                            Thanks Grampy. I now have an understanding of why u start the process at room temperature.
                             
                            #14
                              Lone Star

                              • Total Posts: 1730
                              • Joined: 5/22/2003
                              • Location: Houston, TX
                              RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 2:50 PM (permalink)
                              Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?
                               
                              #15
                                Mayhaw Man

                                • Total Posts: 589
                                • Joined: 7/5/2003
                                • Location: Abita Springs, LA
                                RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 3:05 PM (permalink)
                                quote:
                                Originally posted by Lone Star

                                Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?


                                It is a pickle that is half sweet
                                 
                                #16
                                  Grampy

                                  • Total Posts: 1559
                                  • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                  • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                  RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 3:08 PM (permalink)
                                  Half-sour pickles are merely pickles that do not ferment the full week, but only about 4 days outside the fridge. This is why they are usually greener, a tad sweeter, and crisper.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    Lone Star

                                    • Total Posts: 1730
                                    • Joined: 5/22/2003
                                    • Location: Houston, TX
                                    RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 4:16 PM (permalink)
                                    Thanks Grampy - I am going to have to try one.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      hilldweller

                                      • Total Posts: 168
                                      • Joined: 7/20/2003
                                      • Location: Staten Island, NYC, NY
                                      RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 6:57 PM (permalink)
                                      quote:
                                      Originally posted by Lone Star

                                      Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?


                                      For my money, the only way to go is with what I'd call the "advanced half-sour." That's a half-sour that's well on its way to sour, but not quite. The half-sours straight out of the refrigerated jars are an abomination IMNSHO because they're really not at all soured yet. They're like wet cucumbers. Yuk. Bring 'em home, break the vacuum seal, and let 'em ferment a few days. Then we're starting to talk about a decent pickle.

                                      But I have no great love for sour pickles on the other side of the pickle coin either, at least as I have experienced well-soured pickles. They're limp, soggy, characterless lumps of mush with no crunch that are also so "sour" that the "sour" taste ovewhelms all other characteristics. I'd say a good analogy is the opinion that a meat connoisseur has towards well-done meat in that it destroys the product; and that a full-sour pickle is similarly "overcooked" to the point that it's been destroyed. (Of course, I like my meat well done, so I obviously have much less respect for my meat than I do for my pickle!)
                                       
                                      #19
                                        kdiammond

                                        • Total Posts: 133
                                        • Joined: 2/28/2003
                                        • Location: McLean, VA
                                        RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 10/28/03 9:34 PM (permalink)
                                        I have made Kosher dills in much the same way as Grampy-- However, I will caution you not to do a large batch in an apartment. I grew cukes at my Mom's house and took them back to the apartment to process. Within the week my apt. was smelling like a pickle factory. Fortunately, I had foodie neighbors (mostly from NY as am I) so they did not complain but did come by bringing jars for some of the treats.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          marberthenad

                                          • Total Posts: 509
                                          • Joined: 2/19/2003
                                          • Location: Washington, DC
                                          RE: True Kosher Dills Sat, 11/1/03 8:57 PM (permalink)
                                          Speaking of New York, there used to be this company that went from street fair to street fair with its own sours, half sours, and hot pepper pickles. I think they tried to open up a retail space somewhere on the Upper West Side. I wonder if they are still open.

                                          By the way, I'd second the view that Ba-tampe pickles are extraordinary. Simple and sour, or half-sour. I used to be a Strub's fan, until I tried my first Ba-tampe cuke.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            JimInKy

                                            • Total Posts: 599
                                            • Joined: 11/29/2000
                                            • Location: Lexington, KY
                                            RE: True Kosher Dills Mon, 11/3/03 5:53 AM (permalink)
                                            In all the Roadfood recommended eateries I've visited--29 to date--I've only had one bad experience. And that was in June 2000 at Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor. I hate to report this as Zingerman's is a favorite of Jane and Michael's. I may tell the story another time.

                                            A large whole pickle came with my Reuben ($10.95 for the small sandwich). I'm not really familiar with these kind of pickles and am guessing it was fermented; it certainly wasn't cooked. Well, it was about the worst thing I ever tried to eat. After a few small bites I had to give up. A server noticed I wasn't eating it, and politely told me she could offer another variety. The second pickle looked like the first and tasted just as bad. I would not eat it. Both looked like freshly harvested cucumbers, but had an offensive off taste to me, neither pickle nor vegetable.

                                            The pickle disappointment was the least of my bad experience at Zingerman's, but I've wondered why I so disliked these pickles. I love pickles and cannot remember ever disliking one before that day. Maybe these were the half-sours being discussed here and that was my first experience with them. They were quite green and crisp.

                                            Anyone have a possible explanation?
                                             
                                            #22
                                              The-Porcus

                                              • Total Posts: 32
                                              • Joined: 10/4/2003
                                              • Location: Cambridge, MA
                                              RE: True Kosher Dills Sat, 11/22/03 7:25 PM (permalink)
                                              quote:
                                              Originally posted by JimInKy

                                              In all the Roadfood recommended eateries I've visited--29 to date--I've only had one bad experience. And that was in June 2000 at Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor. I hate to report this as Zingerman's is a favorite of Jane and Michael's. I may tell the story another time.

                                              A large whole pickle came with my Reuben ($10.95 for the small sandwich). I'm not really familiar with these kind of pickles and am guessing it was fermented; it certainly wasn't cooked. Well, it was about the worst thing I ever tried to eat. After a few small bites I had to give up. A server noticed I wasn't eating it, and politely told me she could offer another variety. The second pickle looked like the first and tasted just as bad. I would not eat it. Both looked like freshly harvested cucumbers, but had an offensive off taste to me, neither pickle nor vegetable.

                                              The pickle disappointment was the least of my bad experience at Zingerman's, but I've wondered why I so disliked these pickles. I love pickles and cannot remember ever disliking one before that day. Maybe these were the half-sours being discussed here and that was my first experience with them. They were quite green and crisp.

                                              Anyone have a possible explanation?


                                              The greeness and crispness does say "half sour" to me and I can well imagine that if one never had them before and one's palate was eaegerly awaiting and expecting a full sour, the effect could be unsettling. Sometime, maybe go back there and nibble another but chanting the mantra "No ordinary dill, no ordinary dill..."
                                               
                                              #23
                                                chicagostyledog

                                                • Total Posts: 3217
                                                • Joined: 9/10/2003
                                                • Location: Hot Dog University Chicago, IL
                                                RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 01/8/04 9:25 AM (permalink)
                                                True Kosher dill pickles are barrel cured in refrigeration, never cooked, for that authentic deli crunch. Chipico Pickles (Chicago Pickle Company) is owned by Vienna Beef in Chicago. Their pickles are available in a variety of sizes, cuts, and pickling spices and manufactured under strict Kosher guidelines in Florida and California. Chipico Pickles can be enjoyed at restaurants, delis, and hot dog stands. They are available in 5 gallon pails at Restaurant Depot.
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  wilewil

                                                  • Total Posts: 99
                                                  • Joined: 2/3/2004
                                                  • Location: alexandria, VA
                                                  RE: True Kosher Dills Thu, 02/19/04 11:43 AM (permalink)
                                                  Restaurant Depot - How strict are they about their "membership" requirements. I cook for my church, but not on a regular basis, using them might be advantageous. I have heard they have at least some good items.


                                                  Bill
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    fcbaldwin

                                                    • Total Posts: 388
                                                    • Joined: 3/8/2004
                                                    • Location: Powhatan, VA
                                                    RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 06/22/04 8:34 PM (permalink)
                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by Grampy

                                                    For real pickles, take 20 small kirby cukes (uwaxed and bumpy) and scrub under cold water. Bring 3/4 cup kosher salt in cold water to a boil, turn off heat, and let cool. This is your brine. Meanwile, smack about 16 garlic cloves with the back of a large knife. Distribute equally into canning jars with cukes. Divide 1 bunch of dill, 6 or so bay leaves, and 4 small hot peppers into jars. Divide 3 TBS pickling spices (mustard seeds, perppercorns, coriander seeds, and dill seeds) into jars. Add brine to totally cover. Put lids on tight and shake. Set in a cool, dark place. Remove the lids once a day and spoon off any foam that might form. Cover and shake. You will have half sour after about 4-5 days, and sour after about a week. Refrigerate -- if any are left. This is what they do at the Second Ave Deli in NYC. Rob


                                                    Hey Rob,
                                                    We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
                                                    Thanks!

                                                    Frank

                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      hrichard

                                                      • Total Posts: 1
                                                      • Joined: 5/19/2002
                                                      • Location: Frisco, TX
                                                      RE: True Kosher Dills Tue, 06/22/04 9:09 PM (permalink)
                                                      True New York / Conn. / NJ sour and half sour pickles can be ordered on line from www.picklelicious.com I promise you, these are the real things - full of garlic and brine, not vinegar. I have gone through several gallon jars after 2 decades of deli deprivation.

                                                      Rich
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        TIPPY LEE

                                                        • Total Posts: 135
                                                        • Joined: 3/26/2003
                                                        • Location: Prestonsburg, KY
                                                        RE: True Kosher Dills Wed, 06/23/04 2:27 AM (permalink)
                                                        I like Mt. Olive!....In Eastern Kentucky....Tom B.
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          6star

                                                          • Total Posts: 4388
                                                          • Joined: 1/28/2004
                                                          • Location: West Peoria, IL
                                                          RE: True Kosher Dills Wed, 06/23/04 2:55 AM (permalink)
                                                          This recipe might be similar to your aunt's, though it doesn't say anything about stale rye bread: http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/appetizers/pickles/halfsour.html
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            Grampy

                                                            • Total Posts: 1559
                                                            • Joined: 10/14/2002
                                                            • Location: Greenfield, MA
                                                            RE: True Kosher Dills Wed, 06/23/04 9:22 AM (permalink)
                                                            quote:
                                                            Originally posted by fcbaldwin

                                                            quote:



                                                            Hey Rob,
                                                            We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
                                                            Thanks!

                                                            Frank




                                                            Frank:

                                                            Use a gallon of water to the ratio of kosher salt. You may have to experiment with salt, because it does not come from one source, and the last box of Morton's I bought was actually saltier than the previous I have purchased!
                                                             
                                                            #30
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