Two people arrested in Philadelphia for not tipping

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html?yhp=1

Wondering how many lawyers have contacted the couple offering to represent them in the lawsuit?

"It was a happy hour that went horribly wrong...."  

That's ridiculous...on all parties involved...sometimes I wonder about people.

Until today, that restaurant had 7 reviews on yelp. Now they have 191. Most reviewers never ate there, gave them a 1-star, and lambasted them. Some told them where to find false arrest lawyers.

A gratuity is given because you are grateful for the service. If you get lousy service there's no reason to give a gratuity.

Granted, many places include a gratuity when serving a large group  - but that's actually a favor to the customers as they don't have to hassle over the tip.

There was apparently no value in terms of service provided by the restaurant, so no gratuity was earned.

What kind of an asshole police department would actually put someone in handcuffs over a petty civil commercial complaint?

Of course, I expect that restaurant to close soon due to lack of patronage,  so I guess the only place the lawyers will find any money to sue for is the police department - that is, the local taxpayers...

Cheers, john     

John, they could still personally sue the person who called the police and pressed charges.

I suspect this situation was exacerbated by those restaurant POS systems. Tax collection agencies demand witholding tax from the restaurant based upon what is attributed to servers by the POS system. Restaurant associations should also sue the government to find a way handle the case where the customer refuses to pay the gratuity/service charge/tip due to unsatisfactory service. Maybe pass a law that people who refuse to pay a tip have to fill out a form attesting they refused to pay.

As we all know, the gratuity added to the bill on the menu is not legally binding as part of the price of the meal. As one comment read (this is all over the internet), a first year law student ought to be able to win this one, plus successfully sue the Lehigh Pub.

I'm close enough to the area that I might check it out; walk in, look around, then leave without ordering anything.

   This whole "mandatory gratuity" thing has been nothing but a big joke since it started (I think i first started seeing it around 20-25 years ago).Nobody is happy with it,waiters,customers,not sure about ownership/management.But as long as people keep patronizing these places with these silly rules,you know it will continue.But all I ever hear when I say that is the same old refrain "Ya we know but Gramma likes to go there and you know how that is".

Nice to learn that there's no serious crime to keep the cops in Bethlehem busy. They must be doing a fantastic job. Residents have much to be proud of. 

I don't like this anymore then you folks, but I think there's something different here. The group was 8 people. Here, in our neck of the woods, mandatory announcements in menus and signs declare that a fixed percentage gratuity is added to the bill for large parties usually 8 or more. That is a fixed charge that one agrees to and listed on the bill. Not paying that listed charge is considered theft and defrauding an innkeeper. Same goes for a "service charge" that some restaurants add to the bill which is considered independent from a gratuity. This has happened here and from what I understand from a TV lawyer, there is a very thin line between what's considered a civil dispute and what is considered intent to defraud. If you agree to something, you are obligated to pay for it. I'm sure this varies from state to state.

No doubt they've cut their own throat with the negative publicity and will pay dearly for the indescretion no matter how right they are.

I tip well and don't like to dine with folks who don't, but if the service was as lousy as the couple says and there were no signs about an auto-grat on the walls or on the menu this is ridiculous.

It does not look good for the restaurant on this one.

Andrea

On a lighter note, does anyone what Curb Your Enthusiasm? Some of the funniest/awkward moments are with Larry and tipping. He always brings up the 18% included gratuity and asks if he should give them another 2%

I've never run across this but there was the episode where the bill had an extra line to tip the Captain. Has anyone seen that at a restaurant?

This is a great tipping moment with Jason Alexander:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqYzrk5SlGY

 Absurd.  WHY didn't they speak to a manager if the ongoing service was so bad?  The food should NOT have taken so long, but most times that has little to do with the server. And the He said/she said story about items being comped... Hopefully if the bar DID comp them they have a computer system & can prove it. I'm guessing that they were comped- 70 bucks for 6-8 people seems pretty darn cheap even at happy hour prices...  I just don't understand how ridiculious some people are.   Rant over.  thanks for listening 

Here's the restaurant info and the Yelp link (it's up to 355 reviews now):

Lehigh Pub - Yelp
4 E 4th Street, Bethlehem, PA 18015
(610) 868-1313

Look at the photos people have put up

This is a sad story all around.

Excuse me but this place is in Bethlehem, not Philadelphia. It's at least an hour from the City of Brotherly Love.

Dawn and Andrea, mandatory gratuities are legally unenforcable, at least here in Pennsylvania.

  Oh, I don't think they should have been arrested, I just think they shouldn't have let it get to that point, I say SPEAK UP while the problem is happening, don't wait till things get so out of hand...

Mosca


Dawn and Andrea, mandatory gratuities are legally unenforcable, at least here in Pennsylvania.

Would it be possible for Bethlehem to have municipal ordinance that overrides this?  Just wondering...
 
Brad

Brad, I doubt it.  We've all seen the sign in a restaurant's coatroom that states, "Not Responsible For Lost Or Stolen Things"? I had a lawyer tell me that they indeed are responsible, if not he said you could put a sign on your car "Not Resonsible For Any Damage This Car Causes". A gratuity is a gratuity, which I expect the judge to point out to the DA's office if they foolishly let it get before a judge. I would think the city might end up coughing up some cash for having the police involved.

I believe the police overstepped their authority.  This is/was a civil matter.  A legal dispute between two parties, not a criminal offense.

If the students refused to show identification, then the police could have been called to insure an orderly exchange of information.

If I were the students, I would hire Jackie Chiles to handle this one   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2EirLJqghA

We had an incident that happened here where a patron disputed a bill over the price difference between a small bowl of soup she said she ordered and large bowl of soup served. Minisule amount compared to the amount of the bill that couldn't have been more then a few bucks and the size of her party. She also tipped better then 18%; several times the amount of the difference. On principle, she refused to pay the difference and told them to take the difference out of the tip. Upon leaving she was met by 3 police cars and several police officers who heard her and the manager out. They told her she was obligated to pay the difference or she would be arrested. She refused and was arrested and spent the night in jail. Asst. DA dropped the charges.

The way this was explained legally was that the printed charge held by tacit agreement by dining at the restaurant and complying to their policies.
The tip she left with the waiter and the billable amounts have nothing to do with each other. The food and services on the bill are taxable and have nothing to do with the tip.
The police acted within their scope of duty and arrested her with the restaurant pressing charges. For the police, this was a simple matter. Amount on bill is due to the establishment. They are not in a position to discern if this was a civil matter or criminal theft. She got the large soup and ate it, then disputed it. Let the legal system sort that one out. The DA did just that. It all came to a question if this was theft/intention to defraud an innkeeper or was a civil dispute matter which was blatently obvious. The police were doing their job although it could be argued that there could have used better judgement. The woman probably was loud and creating a disturbance...who wouldn't be under the absurd circumstances, but unfortunately gives the police extra reasons to arrest you for disorderly conduct,resisting arrest,& failure to comply/delaying an officer. These are real charges and even if the primary complaint is dropped are still valid and do hold up in court. I have no doubt that the couple above is facing some of these charges too. Perhaps this couple has legal civil options against the establisment, but I seriously doubt that they can sue the city or police dept. in the commision of their duties...at least not here. Nobody wins here even if this goes to court and the primary charge dropped except the lawyers. 

Hmm. Does a gratuity printed on a bill become a taxable service charge in PA?  I wonder if the IRS & State is going to come snooping into this fray adding to the establisments publicity problem? I also wonder if this restaurant engages in the practice of Greek insurance by feeding cops at reduced rates. Just wondering...

If you look at some of the comments left at some Bethlehem area sites, the owner is a known bottom-feeding entrepreneur who took over a well respected pub;; many comments at the time (spring of '09) were along the lines of "It looks like Dale is going to run this one into the ground, too."

Success!

Brad_Olson

Mosca


Dawn and Andrea, mandatory gratuities are legally unenforcable, at least here in Pennsylvania.

Would it be possible for Bethlehem to have municipal ordinance that overrides this?  Just wondering...
 
Brad

No. IIRC, this is actually part of the Truth in Advertising statute; advertised price, loss leaders, etc. Otherwise you could put on your menu, "12oz prime filet mignon $2", with a mandatory $48 tip at the bottom.

Dawn T, I like the way you think. It would be most interesting if the restaurant saw to it that the service bill of 18% went completely to their help or might some have been skimmed off? I would hope that the couple asked the powers that be if that was the case. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

...They told her she was obligated to pay the difference or she would be arrested. She refused and was arrested and spent the night in jail. Asst. DA dropped the charges...

...why would you not just pull out a $5 bill at this point and just settle the whole thing?!

The restaurant was stupid and they will now get what they deserve. If you want to stay in business there is a saying, "The customer is always right." That saying means whether the customer is right or wrong, they are always right because more good will come to you in the long run if you suck it up and let a few things pass. If you have too many of these kinds of disputes then you need to do a little introspection as to what you are doing wrong.

Davydd


The restaurant was stupid and they will now get what they deserve. If you want to stay in business there is a saying, "The customer is always right." That saying means whether the customer is right or wrong, they are always right because more good will come to you in the long run if you suck it up and let a few things pass. If you have too many of these kinds of disputes then you need to do a little introspection as to what you are doing wrong.

Davydd
 
One thing you don't realize is that this isn't "Minnesota Nice" this is the North East Corridor. I know your thoughts, because Seattle was the exact same way to the point that it was beyond ridiculous- I believe it was referred to as "Nordstrom's Style Customer Service"
The saying here is more or less - "If you don't like it....leave"
I'm not sure if you've ever watched Seinfeld, but there was one episode with Kramer and the fruit vendor which basically represents the sentiment of customer service here in the Northeast corrirdor, although it was meant to be comical- stuff like that really does happen here.
 

  " The customer is always right " came from A RETAIL store in Chicago... nothing to do with restaurants at all,  If you want to eat out , and be waited on , please tip!!! thank you very much. 

  After 38 years in retail and wholesale business,I can tell you that the customer is **not** always right.There are actually times when the customer is trying to take food off your table(not in a restaurant sense).Fortunately it doesnt happen all that often,although in this worsening business climate it seems to be happening more.Its never pleasant but you have to keep your eyes open all the time.
   Many of these customers,if you let them get one over on you,will come back and try to beat you out of twice as much.I'm very sincere and not bitter here,and I dont live by "get them before they get you".But you got to be careful,they can and will clean you out.And your **good** customers won't flinch as they walk by your boarded up doors on their way to the next closest supplier.
   Im not saying that has anything to do with the Lehigh situation.My own saying is,"The customer is always right,unless he's wrong".On a seventy dollar bar tab,you can afford to give away a few.On a 10K invoice you wont last long.

wj,

I'll take Minnesota Nice over the attitude of the Northeast Corridor anytime. One of my jobs at Target was to troubleshoot construction and maintenance problems at their stores all over the country. There was a wide difference in attitude and subsequent upkeep in stores by employees and the Northeast was the worst place in the United States, IMO. I lived in the Northeast briefly. Leaving Newport, RI for Minneapolis was like a night and day change to me in the way people treated each other.

Ahi,

A tip is coupled with service. Restaurants and wait people have to understand that. It's kind of a golden rule thing. You give back what is given to you. I do tip the service of my wait person and not the management.