Vienna vs ?

I will be opening a hot dog shop soon and have a final decision to make. The shop will be near Harrisburg, Pa., and I am narrowing down my decision on which dog I will offer. My preferred choices that are available from my distributors are:

1.) Vienna Beef
2.) Nathans
3.) Best Kosher
4.) Hatfield
5.) Berks

Vienna by far is the most expensive option and was my original choice. My question is will the 'average' customer in my area know the difference if they've never tasted one, especially with the advent of the 'Target Dog'? I've tried #2 thru #4 but have not had an opportunity to try a true Vienna myself. Whichever product I decide to go with the cooking method will be steaming and the dog will be all beef.

My competitors offer mainly mixed meat or all beef dogs that are either locally made such as Kessler's, as well as Kunzler, Oscar Meyer, Ball Park, etc.

For those who have had the opportunity to compare Vienna against any of the others how does it stack up?

Interesting; of the dogs listed I would go with Nathan's as they are the best known brand.

My instinct is none of the above, however. Considering where you are, I would go local, you are in the middle of the last bastions of great independent sausage makers. Take advantage! Anyone can offer a name brand, but an independent deal with a quality local producer is priceless.

Why a dog anyway? If I saw two stands side by side with one offering dogs and the other offering local sausage I would buy from the sausage stand every time. I would also be willing to pay a great deal more for the quality local product rather than a dog I can get anywhere.

I would go with Nathan's as long as you get the natural casing dogs and cook them on a griddle. That's the way they were meant to be served. But you say you will be steaming them. In that case, I would go with Hatfield's. They make a great natural casing all beef dog that has the right amount of spice and a good smokey, rich beef flavor. Or else Vienna Beef natural casings. Berks are kind of bland and Best Kosher are skinless.

I did the same thing you're doing - tasting a bunch, then making my decision - Vienna Beef 8 to 1, natural casing, steamed. So far, I've gotten a great response, and that's here in the South, where they've never had anything as good.

I personally do like Nathan's taste as well, and they do have name recognition due the hot dog eating contest, but here's something to consider: I don't think you can get a Nathan's natural casing dog without franchising with them, which is expensive. I do know of a hot dog stand that is doing big bucks with a Nathan's skinless, but if it's the skin you love and want to serve, Vienna should be your choice. Also their customer service has been tremendous for me.

quote:

Originally posted by rllgthunder

I will be opening a hot dog shop soon and have a final decision to make. The shop will be near Harrisburg, Pa., and I am narrowing down my decision on which dog I will offer. My preferred choices that are available from my distributors are:

1.) Vienna Beef
2.) Nathans
3.) Best Kosher
4.) Hatfield
5.) Berks

Vienna by far is the most expensive option and was my original choice. My question is will the 'average' customer in my area know the difference if they've never tasted one, especially with the advent of the 'Target Dog'? I've tried #2 thru #4 but have not had an opportunity to try a true Vienna myself. Whichever product I decide to go with the cooking method will be steaming and the dog will be all beef.

My competitors offer mainly mixed meat or all beef dogs that are either locally made such as Kessler's, as well as Kunzler, Oscar Meyer, Ball Park, etc.

For those who have had the opportunity to compare Vienna against any of the others how does it stack up?

I would find out what the people in the area like, I tried Vienna Beef here in Texas and they didnt go for it, they said they are too tough...I dont like them either and the price is way too high for them. If I lived in chicago I would have Vienna on my menu because they seem to like them......just do some research and you might save yourself some money...Good Luck!!

I'ved wondered about that too, Ohman. The typical dog around here is a regular, bland 'discount special' nameless brand at most places (7-11 style). Mostly, mixed beef/pork and sometimes all beef. I know from my supplier that a place similar to mine, about 40 minutes away, buys 86 10# cases a week from them. They're #8 size so that adds up to nearly 7000 per week. The only other place closer is in down town Harrisburg, the SPOT, if anyone has heard of them. They're pretty much a legend around here but...........that's it. The 'Hot Dog King', now the Summit Restaurant, is more family menu oriented and has been for years but locals still call it by the former name even though their dog is a shadow of it's former self.

I've just closed the franchise sandwich operation I had for 2 years and am going independent with this new store. I'm remodeling the dining room now so I plan to re-open in a few weeks. VB was my first choice to serve but I am leaning towards Hatfield as an option because the supplier is more local and can provide fast service for inventory. I've got 44 seats, new fryers and have kept all my previous employees busy working on recipes so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'll keep you posted on how it turns out once we get open.

I second mister chicagostyledog.

I took place in a taste test/taste panel, and whether or not you can tell one hot dog from another, you can tell a good taste when you have it.

If I remember right after they revealed which was which, I spit out the Nathan's hot dog because it tasted like corn syrup. Best Kosher's did too, but it also tasted like....mush, LOL.

I honestly had to stop from eating the entire plate of Vienna Beef. I knew it was theirs. It has the best taste.

I know you can call up the number on the website for the Chicago office and the receptionist will put you in contact with the right people in Vienna to get you going. The sales guys are pretty cool. I met some of them at the Piece Treaty event in May. S. Rosen's and Vienna signed a Piece Treaty 8 buns & 8 hot dogs.

It was a good time

~It's a bird, It's a plane
It's WEENIE GIRL!

Weiner Girl: Sounds to me like you should be a PR person for Vienna. You certainly endorsed them very well in four different post. You know all the contact folks.

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Once a Chicago Girl, Always a Chicago Girl.


What can I say? I am a hot dog fanatic and Vienna is the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Weenie Girl

Once a Chicago Girl, Always a Chicago Girl.


What can I say? I am a hot dog fanatic and Vienna is the best.

Are you employeed by Vienna???

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Nope. Hmm. That's a thought, maybe I should try and get a job there........

My personal taste is for Vienna, but Nathan's are very good as well. As far as storebought dogs go, Hebrew National are the best.

Vienna has been the staple at St. Louis local staple Woofies for many years, and I have been eating it since I was a kid, so that biases my taste buds a bit.

quote:

Are you employeed by Vienna???

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

I was wondering that too....I am positive that there are some Vienna stock holders in here.....Geeeeze!!

I am brand loyal. Forgive me for loving my hometown hotdog. Loving Vienna Beef is like Loving the Chicago Cubs. They are Chicago.

I like what I like. Sorry if I seem to be screaming Vienna Beef at you, but it is just my opinion. When you have had a lot of bad food in your time, you remember the good stuff and hold onto it. I do account planning, i understand about consumers and their food.

I would say go with a kosher dog, as the average consumer does beleive they are the better than non-kosher brands. I am not saying this is right or wrong now, so dont attack.

Anyway, I would probably not pick Best Kosher..Hebrew National. The best hot dog in Boston, Speeds, uses Shofar I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Weenie Girl

I am brand loyal. Forgive me for loving my hometown hotdog. Loving Vienna Beef is like Loving the Chicago Cubs. They are Chicago.

As a South Sider, Weenie Girl, this is where I draw the line......Vienna yes, the other NO!

I thought it time to bring everyone up to date on how things are going. I finally chose Hatfield and Best Kosher. The option to use Vienna Beef died quickly as the only distributor I could get them from dropped the ball, dropped it badly and didn't seem to know how to pick it back up again. That and given the fact that a local supplier versus an interstate supplier provides me with far better support and service also helped to make my final decision. Customer feedback so far has been very good with Best Kosher getting a big 'thumbs up'. The hatfields are not all beef but finding a 12" isn't as easy as I had hoped. If one more supplier tells me 'but I've got a 10" that you might like' I'll be posting future responses from the big house. I'm going to try Greyghost's suggestion and see if I can get a local meat packer to provide me with what I need for 12" and sausage as well. The local farmers market has many local venders and I've found one that makes an 'incredible' all beef 7" 5/1! If I can get them to make me up a 12" 4/1 at a fair price it might just be the ticket! I also tried Kunzler polish Kielbasi and we were very underwhelmed by it's taste and texture. Sabrett Hot Sausage is available locally so that's going on the menu very soon until I find a local made source.

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'll keep you up to date as things progress.

hawkeye john~~~

I am Irish too, but that doesn't mean I don't love my Cubbies. Even if they are sucking it up big time.

quote:

Originally posted by Weenie Girl

I second mister chicagostyledog.

I took place in a taste test/taste panel, and whether or not you can tell one hot dog from another, you can tell a good taste when you have it.

If I remember right after they revealed which was which, I spit out the Nathan's hot dog because it tasted like corn syrup. Best Kosher's did too, but it also tasted like....mush, LOL.

I honestly had to stop from eating the entire plate of Vienna Beef. I knew it was theirs. It has the best taste.

I know you can call up the number on the website for the Chicago office and the receptionist will put you in contact with the right people in Vienna to get you going. The sales guys are pretty cool. I met some of them at the Piece Treaty event in May. S. Rosen's and Vienna signed a Piece Treaty 8 buns & 8 hot dogs.

It was a good time

~It's a bird, It's a plane
It's WEENIE GIRL!

Come on Weenie Girl!!! You spit a Nathan's frank out your mouth? I could understand loyalty to your local regional dog but corn syrup?Get real!!! Vienna dogs are good but Nathan's are great with or without the casing. It's the flavor of the frank that stands out with a Nathan's.

quote:

i understand about consumers and their food.

So do I, I sell food for a living....All I am saying is there are plenty of other hot dogs just as good or better than Vienna. I love the Kayem dogs I sold in New England too so I understand being loyal but my god all you hear on here in Vienna.....Its like a recording.

I swear on my god daughter life (who is also my niece) that I spit the Nathan's hot dog out. It didn't taste like meat, it tasted like a sweet syrup, basically like Corn Syrup.

I am a picky eater. I find something I like, and I stick with it. For example, Starbucks. Everyone loves Starbucks blah blah blah. Give me Cariboo or some good old fashion gas station style capuccino any time.

Or

Do you prefer Coke or Pepsi? It's kind of the same thing. They are both Cola flavored sodas, but they do taste different, and you obviously have a preference or loyalty to one over the other.

As far as only hearing about Vienna.... maybe that is telling you something. Maybe you should listen to the consumers.

"This is like deja vu all over again." YB

quote:

Originally posted by Weenie Girl

I swear on my god daughter life (who is also my niece) that I spit the Nathan's hot dog out. It didn't taste like meat, it tasted like a sweet syrup, basically like Corn Syrup.

I am a picky eater. I find something I like, and I stick with it. For example, Starbucks. Everyone loves Starbucks blah blah blah. Give me Cariboo or some good old fashion gas station style capuccino any time.

Or

Do you prefer Coke or Pepsi? It's kind of the same thing. They are both Cola flavored sodas, but they do taste different, and you obviously have a preference or loyalty to one over the other.

As far as only hearing about Vienna.... maybe that is telling you something. Maybe you should listen to the consumers.

Not to split hair with you, but if the frank you had taste like corn syrup then there's no way it was a true Nathan's frank. The taste of a Nathan's is remarkable to the point that fixing on it is truly unnecessary. I'm also a picky eater especially when it comes to Franks/hot dogs and Pizza. I do enjoy Vienna franks and I hear alot about of Vienna... but I also hear and see Nathan's distributed more and I see Sabretts more than any other frank product out there. From supermarkets to frank stands.

It's possible that Weenie Girl got a bad one. It does happen from time to time. As for Nathan's, I recently discovered one in a mall (Menlo Park). It's been there quite a while, but I hate malls so I had to be dragged there against my will. One of the Nathan's restaurants that uses the natural casing dog and prepares it the right way; slow cooked on a griddle. This is the way Nathan's were meant to be served. As good an all beef dog as you can get. And they have a special Fri-Mon. 3 dogs for $3.33. Usually one dog is close to $3.00. These dogs are so good that I get them with just mustard. I wish that all Nathan's were like this one. They are inconsistent, unfortunately.

...you are opening a shop in Harrisburg....why not Kunzler franks?

I'm a Syracuse guy (well...I grew up there), and I would say to pick Hoffman's german style franks and coneys (snappys), but honestly, that probably wouldn't sell in Harrisburg as much as Hoffman's is a selling point up I-81 in Syracuse. I would've suggested you find the most popular hotdog maker in the Harrisburg area and sell that.
Sure, people will try a new dog, but eating at a hotdog joint is a regular thing. I'd want my local dog.

I pass through Harrisburg from time to time, you should let us know where it is so we can stop in for a dog.

Weenie girl, I haveno preference for coke or pepsi, and i love all dogs. Yeah some are better than others, but I would never discrace something as special as a hot dog by spitting it out, especially a Nathans

I decided up front not to do Kunzler dogs because they are available in any local grocery store around here. Besides, I have found only a few companies that make footlongs that my local suppliers carry. Anything that needs to be special order puts foods costs out of the picture.

I have also been told by our wait staff that people are asking which dogs are all beef or pork/beef mixed. Oddly enough, the pork/beef mix is proving to be just as, if not more, popular than the all beef. Could be the PA dutch influence? As of today we've been open two weeks and sales are climbing at a steady pace. The double throw fresh cut fries, hand blended shakes and chili are getting very good remarks. Having the homemade chili available in a cup or bowl served up with or w/o beans is proving to be a good choice for us. Customers are filling out comment cards and of the 60+ cards returned only 4 negatives have been reported (5 if you're the one who doesn't like country music). Of these four, 2 are suggestions for adding items so they are more constructive than not and very good suggestions overall. The only two negatives are about price (from a grandfather/grandson) but if you're looking for a $1.59 dog we're not the place you're looking for. Our special is a jumbo dog with chili/onion/mustard on a steamed oversized roll, a half pound of fries and a bottomless drink for $5.99.

I'll have a website up sometime in the future. For those passing through Mechanicsburg we're called 'Big Dawgs American Grille' and we're located at 5206 Simpson Ferry Rd, just off Rt 15 and near the PA Turnpike/Gettysburg exit.

I'll be another one who doesn't like country music...

What would be a good day for me to come up, i'd love to come up and meet you within the next month or so.

What hot dogs did you end up using?

Ah, well then, maybe you need to give country music another try. It sure as hell "ain't" your grandpappy's music anymore (except for Johnny Cash who is timeless). I still enjoy 105.7 the X in the morning but I'm tired of the rhetorical 'america is a bad shameless country' attitude of the next generation of rock 'artists'. Some great stuff like 'Arlington' by Trace Adkins, 'Something to be proud of' by Montgomery Gentry, or an older favorite 'Red, white, and Blue' by Toby Keith are what made me decide on what I wanted to do with my business. Even Lynard Skynard has a great tune of the same name from a few years back and the Van Zant's have made the move over to country. Of course there are exceptions and since you live in York stop by Fat Daddy's some night when ETB is rocking the place. They might seem a very 'irrevrent' but ask them about what they think of the USA and you'll see stars 'n' stripes in their eyes.

I'm generally in the store serving up dogs from 4 to close, monday though saturday. Before then I'm out and about with a hammer, toolbelt and a fistful of 16d nails. Makes for a long day but there's no shame in an honest day's work no matter what you choose.

I'm using Hatfields and Best Koshers. From what my local customers have been telling me there isn't any reason to change. A few out of town folks have commented that I should be using 'this' or 'that' or be more like 'such and such in *any state* USA' but the locals keep come back and that's the important fact. As long as the cash register rings, don't change a thing!