Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog

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David_NYC
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:13:48 (permalink)
No, they don't reach this far east. FJ is owned by Hormel.
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CCinNJ
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:26:31 (permalink)
David_NYC

I found a separate website for Hatfield food service products. Here is the page for Beef Franks (they have another for all meat franks):
http://www.hatfieldqualitymeatsfoodservice.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?ProductCategoryID=14
Note the footnote for their Deluxe food service hot dogs: "Deluxe Grill Franks use superior raw materials and additional seasonings."


Damn! The jig would be up if allowed to view the info without a log in! The smoking gun is corn syrup in the Hatfield  stable.

Wardynski in Buffalo also designates the * for specially made for roller grills.

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acer2x
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 09:10:30 (permalink)
And the winner is

http://www.philly.com/philly/restaurants/90112202.html

Will it be a home run or a strike out?
#33
MiamiDon
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 09:47:38 (permalink)
The weiner:
 
SOUTH PHILLY DOG WITH BROCCOLI RABE


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CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 10:07:10 (permalink)
I didn't vote for it. No sense complaining. Just won't eat it. Will go with my standby favorite Citizens Bank Park sandwich: The Schmitter.
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John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 14:16:32 (permalink)
Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.
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CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 14:54:08 (permalink)
John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.
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Foodbme
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 15:55:13 (permalink)
CheeseWit

John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.


What do Youze guys expect??
You're getting fed by Aramark!
Aramark feeds people with Institutional Food-----As in Mental Institutions!" />" />" />
#38
CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 16:42:27 (permalink)
Foodbme

CheeseWit

John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.


What do Youze guys expect??
You're getting fed by Aramark!
Aramark feeds people with Institutional Food-----As in Mental Institutions!" />" />" />




Understood. Totally.
#39
John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 18:55:19 (permalink)
I don't know if Aramark is at Citi Field or Yankee Stadium, but at least they have good hot dogs at these stadiums. And as mentioned previously, if the Phils have a contract with Hatfield, they can at least serve the better dog that you can get in Jersey and New York.
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CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 21:11:06 (permalink)
John, I don't think the demand for better dogs exists here in Philly. Hot dogs take a back seat to cheesesteaks and hoagies here. In North Jersey and NY, hot dogs and pizza rule the roost. And the public wants better hot dogs in your area just as they want and fight over the "best" steaks and hoagies here.

I think people here subscribe to the "a hot dog always tastes better at a game than anywhere else" thinking and because it's a tradition to have a dog at a baseball game, they buy one (or more). The quality doesn't matter all that much to the majority of people attending.
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John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 06:18:46 (permalink)
Agreed. And that's the way it is in most of the country. Sometimes I forget that since our little community appreciates good hot dogs. I just wish that when the Phillies or some other company creates all this hype about a better hot dog, that they are improving the actual frank; not taking a lousy dog and throwing on a lot of extra junk. Too bad that this also seems to be the trend with a lot of the newer hot dog joints.
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:01:19 (permalink)
What about using the idea of the new Philly Dog on a Vienna Beef dog( or similar quality dog) a la a Chicago Dog?
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:12:48 (permalink)
John Fox

Agreed. And that's the way it is in most of the country. Sometimes I forget that since our little community appreciates good hot dogs. I just wish that when the Phillies or some other company creates all this hype about a better hot dog, that they are improving the actual frank; not taking a lousy dog and throwing on a lot of extra junk. Too bad that this also seems to be the trend with a lot of the newer hot dog joints.



And I agree with your take too. Now how do we get you to come to Philly for a combination cheesesteak and hot dog tour? I have at least 4 or 5 hot dog stops and a multitude of cheesesteak shops to take you to.
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CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:40:25 (permalink)
I'd love to hear from Marc Bruno of the Roadfood team who's with Aramark on this subject. Marc, if you're out there, jump in with your point of view either here or privately.
#45
hkrall
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:00:27 (permalink)
I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 


#46
John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:46:39 (permalink)
I don't know if opening a new hot dog place that uses great quality dogs and prepares them well would work either. A few years back a Papaya King opened on South 40th Street in Philadelphia. It lasted a little while and went out of business. They served a top of the line frank, prepared it well, and sold it at a reasonable price.

The Hot Dog Truck at 24th and Passyunk serves a quality Dietz and Watson frank and tops it with pepper hash.

Despite these two places serving very good dogs, and despite the presence of Thumann's in supermarkets, it just seems that people in Philly are happy eating poor quality hot dogs. So even though I would look to serve a better dog, maybe the people who make the decisions at Citizen Bank are right. The key to selling more hot dogs (and making more money) in Philly is not to serve a quality dog, but to gussie it up with a bunch of toppings that appeal to people who really don't care much about the frank. Which I totally disagree with. Like I said earlier, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.
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Foodbme
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:48:56 (permalink)
hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 
#48
saps
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 16:00:01 (permalink)
Foodbme, you forgot something on your last post:  " />" />
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hkrall
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 17:30:01 (permalink)
How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs?


Because I live in Philadelphia, worked in food service and restaurants for years, and talk about hot dogs constantly, and 99% of the people who live here couldn't care less about what brand of hot dog they are eating!


Doesn't mean I don't care, I'd love to see a change, what I'm saying is that there is a golden opportunity in this city for someone to introduce Philadelphians to better hot dogs, because nobody else is doing it.  I'd be there every day!


It does seem a shame that Hatfield actually makes a better quality dog that they are not serving. But I think to a large company, they are thinking that's just not what Philadelphia eats. 




#50
CheeseWit
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 17:59:23 (permalink)
Hey Hawk, on a side note, great job on your illustration of your hot dog of the week this week (and every week for that matter)!
#51
John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 18:00:29 (permalink)
Philadelphia doesn't eat it because they don't have access to it. And they don't have access to it because Hatfield doesn't make it available to them. I was told by a distributor that the dog was made to compete with Sabrett. But that doesn't mean Pennsylvania people won't like this dog.

People in Boston for years were happy with their Fenway Franks. It was a cheap mediocre dog. Someone decided to upgrade the Fenway frank despite its popularity. Kayem makes them now. And the response has been great. Red Sox fans love the new Fenway frank! And maybe Philly fans would like a better dog also. I think it would be worth a shot.
#52
John Fox
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 18:10:34 (permalink)
Foodbme

hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 

 
It seems like the "Push Marketing" worked for the Red Sox. I know that there is more of a "hot dog culture" in New York and New Jersey than Philly. But for years they offered lousy dogs at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. And people bought them. Ditto for lousy beer. Well, they upgraded both the beer and the hot dogs. And both are doing well and appreciated by people who may not have bought these products on their own. The same could happen in Philly.

#53
Foodbme
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 22:51:20 (permalink)
John Fox

Foodbme

hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 

 
It seems like the "Push Marketing" worked for the Red Sox. I know that there is more of a "hot dog culture" in New York and New Jersey than Philly. But for years they offered lousy dogs at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. And people bought them. Ditto for lousy beer. Well, they upgraded both the beer and the hot dogs. And both are doing well and appreciated by people who may not have bought these products on their own. The same could happen in Philly.

 
Thank you John!
I've been involved in Marketing for over 40 years. Some people just don't "Get It". You Obviously Do!
There are several ways to market a new Hot Dog product. You can open a shop/cart and hope to change the world in 30-40 years, OR you can align yourself with a  sizable Hot Dog manufacturer, get them to create a unique, QUALITY recipe for you OR give you a Quality Dog from their existing product line OR find another Vendor. Hot Dogs are sold in the MILLIONS all over the country, and especially in Ballparks. You can't convince me in a million years that patrons won't appreciate and buy a QUALITY dog. Hatfield, Aramark and the Philly's are satisfied with the status quo. As long as the Beer's cold, who cares. Nothing will change until the fans rebel. But they won't. So, you're stuck with what you've got. I wonder how much Hatfield has to kick back to the Phillys & Aramark!!
#54
acer2x
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 23:20:05 (permalink)
Before the growth of the cheesesteak culture in Philly, there was a strong hot dog presence. Levis' and Lenny's were institutions and there were 2 kosher hot dog/knockwurst producers- Formost and Samuel Sandler. My father used to take me to a place on Roosevelt Blvd near Rhawn Street-Vic's-that looked a little like Pink's in LA.  I think a quality beef dog would do well in town but would never surpass the cheesesteak. As it is, I get Hebrew National and Nathan's products at the local markets.

I never liked Jimmy John's in Delaware County. Johnnie's Dog House makes a decent Chicago Dog but I don't know what brand they use.
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnniesDogHouse.htm
 
Lenny's is still around:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/Lennys.htm
 
So is Jimmy John's:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JimmyJohns.htm
post edited by acer2x - 2010/04/10 09:56:09
#55
acer2x
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 09:10:42 (permalink)
I'll add Texas Weiners to the Philly hot dog scene. There was one in Center City on 13th Street and one in South Philly.
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/APJTexasWeiners.htm
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/TexasWeiner.htm
 
Never been here:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/BlueInGreen.htm
 
or here: 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnsDoggieShop.htm
http://www.hollyeats.com/ConeyIslandJoes.htm 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnnysHots.htm
or here but I'm going soon:
http://www.hollyeats.com/MoesHotDogs.htm
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/NicksCharcoalPit.htm
 
There's even a Papaya King here now. Go figure:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/PapayaKing.htm
post edited by acer2x - 2010/04/10 09:55:24
#56
hkrall
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 12:38:57 (permalink)
acer-
I always wondered what brand of hot dog Levis' used, nice piece of history there!

Both Texas Weiner places are great, and serve the dogs split & grilled, on short, double wide rolls.. Tony Luke's also does the split & grilled and they are all pretty good, none of them natural casing or anything though, but I like them.

Unfortunately Blue & Green and Papaya King are closed.

Moe's is good, they do the pepper hash, jumbo deitz & watson (maybe 4/lb?) dogs on big rolls, mostly steamed but they will also deep fry them. 


#57
hkrall
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 12:49:17 (permalink)
You can't convince me in a million years that patrons won't appreciate and buy a QUALITY dog. Hatfield, Aramark and the Philly's are satisfied with the status quo. As long as the Beer's cold, who cares. Nothing will change until the fans rebel. But they won't.


I think the patrons would love a quality dog! I just don't see Aramark making that change, but if John talks them into it I'll buy you all a hot dog.

Believe it or not, the new dogs are a big improvement on the standard Phillies dogs which are wrapped in foil ahead of time and sit there for hours, lukewarm with a smashed bun.

I don't think the fans will rebel, because even though Philly has a little bit of a hot dog history, the majority of people here aren't passionate about hot dogs the way they are about other things.

If Aramark started serving cheesesteaks with Swiss cheese on baguette you would have people ripping the seats out of the stands and throwing them onto the field, and flipping over cars in the parking lot!
#58
David_NYC
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 13:25:56 (permalink)
Some frankfurter manufacturers may not be interested in making a better quality product, especially those with their own slaughtering operations. If consumers all start demanding a high quality hot dog, what are they going to do with all that fat and mystery meat that finds it ways into hot dogs?

Besides Conagra's Hebrew National, can anyone think of any producer of quality hot dogs discussed here on RF who also has a slaughter operation? (Hatfield has a pork slaughtering operation, don't know where they get their beef and poultry from.)
post edited by David_NYC - 2010/04/10 13:27:45
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Foodbme
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Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 18:28:05 (permalink)
David_NYC 

If consumers all start demanding a high quality hot dog, what are they going to do with all that fat and mystery meat that finds it ways into hot dogs?


 
Haven't you heard the old Adage -" You can do something with every part of a Hog except the squeal!"
the fat winds up as lard and in dog food. The skin = Pork Rinds!
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