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 Water tank in Concession trailer

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cowtown

  • Total Posts: 24
  • Joined: 1/19/2007
  • Location: north, LA
Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 01/20/07 6:42 PM (permalink)
Hi Everyone. We have a concession trailer and are looking to install a water tank with pump and gray water tank etc. We will be installing the tanks under the sink and counter, I'm looking for suggestions. Space is an issue, what would be the smallest tank anyone would recommend using? I'm sure bigger is better. Our plan is for the trailer to be going to a location daily serving breakfast and lunch. Thanks!
 
#1
    Matt Gleason

    • Total Posts: 689
    • Joined: 12/25/2006
    RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 01/20/07 6:58 PM (permalink)
    5 gallons for hot, 5 gallons for cold and the grey water tank has to be larger than 10 gallons to hold other liquids such as soda, sauce etc. In my area the size of the water supply and waste tank is regulated by the Health Dept. You may want to call your Health Dept. to find out what the minimum is.
     
    #2
      texgrill

      • Total Posts: 302
      • Joined: 11/14/2005
      • Location: Pasadena, TX
      RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 01/20/07 9:51 PM (permalink)
      Yes HotDog King is correct. The minimum size requirements for the tanks are regulated by your city or county health dept. There may be additional requirements such as triple sink and or hand wash sink.

      Ronnie
       
      #3
        cowtown

        • Total Posts: 24
        • Joined: 1/19/2007
        • Location: north, LA
        RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 01/20/07 10:06 PM (permalink)
        Hi Thank you for the responses. Triple sink and hand wash sink are required, I have these. The code also states the holding tank must be 15% larger than the fresh water tank. I thought we would be able to go to a nearby RV supply and see some of these, but they order them in due to different size requirements. We have been researching heavily since then and now I'm thinkig we will actually be able to go a little bigger than I originally thought. I think we can get a 15 gallon freshwater tank with the slightly larger holding tank.
         
        #4
          Dr of BBQ

          • Total Posts: 3716
          • Joined: 10/11/2004
          • Location: Springfield, IL
          • Roadfood Insider
          RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 12:03 AM (permalink)
          My two cents worth and past experiance tells me you can NEVER have enough water on board unless your hooked up to a water supply hose. Now that said:

          If you do an EBay search you'll find dozens and dozens of differant sized water tanks. Try a search for R and P Carriages Trailer Sales. on EBay

          I bought two from this seller two years ago and Ive been very happy with.them and I'm thinking about buying another unit. Heres the imfo on a 42 Gal tank i'm thinking of buying.

          42 gallon Fresh water tank, Camper RV Trailer FDA apprv
          R and P Carriages Trailer Sales
          Visit my eBay Store:R and P Carriages Trailer Sales
          New 42 Gallon water tank, For retro fit into a camper project, or OEM replacement of a exist tank you already have. This tank is NEW, made from F. D. A. Approved Durable Polyethylene material. The one piece construction, stain, corrosion, and rust resistant features make it ideal for installation on campers, trailers, marine products, boats, horse trailers with living quarters, etc.
          Features threes 3/8" female pipe thread fittings (located on three corners for easy installing no matter which way it is installed) and one 1 1/4" hose fill barb to attach a 1.25" hose to.
          Tank measures approximatly 39" x 18" x 14"
          I also have available the following tanks sizes in stock (check my other ebay listings, or if you dont see the size you want, let me know, I will list one on ebay for you!)

          10 Gallon- 17" x 14" x 10"

          16 Gallon- 24" x 15" x 10"

          21 Gallon- 39" x 16" x 8"

          30 Gallon- 34" x 18" x 12"

          42 Gallon- 39" x 18" x 14"
           
          #5
            Matt Gleason

            • Total Posts: 689
            • Joined: 12/25/2006
            RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 8:39 AM (permalink)
            Keep in mind that 1 gallon = 8 pounds. Don't overload your trailer.
             
            #6
              cowtown

              • Total Posts: 24
              • Joined: 1/19/2007
              • Location: north, LA
              RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 9:10 AM (permalink)
              Dr. of BBQ, Thanks for mentioning R and P Carriages Trailer Sales. I have read enough of your posts to take that as a great recommendation. My husband had found R and P Carriages Trailer Sales last night and the feedback looked good etc. I think we will probably go with the 16 and 21 gallon tanks. The 21 was bigger than we wanted but he said he can rearrange the plans some and make it work.

              Now we just need to find a pump.

              We will keep the water weight in mind too. Thanks!
               
              #7
                edwmax

                • Total Posts: 2014
                • Joined: 1/1/2007
                • Location: Cairo, GA
                RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 9:18 AM (permalink)
                My 2 cents worth.

                Look at mounting the freshwater tank high on the wall (at ceiling in a corner) or on the roof. You won't need a pump. The water will be gravity feed and you could still clean up if you lost power.

                If you roof mount, the roof supports may need beefing up. An oval tank would work good on the roof.
                 
                #8
                  Dr of BBQ

                  • Total Posts: 3716
                  • Joined: 10/11/2004
                  • Location: Springfield, IL
                  • Roadfood Insider
                  RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 9:32 AM (permalink)
                  quote:
                  Originally posted by cowtown

                  Now we just need to find a pump.


                  That's an easy one. Go to your local Farm and Home or any Farm supply or Tractor supply type store. They all carry on demand type pumps (much cheaper than an RV source) usually with a cost of around $140.00. Any decent plumber can install one in a couple of hours and that includes time spent hooking up faucets and waste lines, and the necessary check valve. Once you see a good system installed you'll realize how simple they are. I would also highly recommend an on demand propane instant hot water heater. The slower you run the faucet the hotter the water gets to the point of steaming. They are small wall mountable and use very little propane. You’ll never have a tank rust out or leak because they are tank less. They’ve been used in homes in Europe for about 10 years, Do a search on line and you'll find Omega water heaters. Here is some information from the unit I use. But they have several sizes.

                  Propane (LPG) Exhaust: Normal Vertical Draft The volume is controlled by your faucets. Gas: Manual Mechanical Knob to control the maximum temperature. Max 40,955 BTU Efficiency: 82% to 85% (depending on the volume of water used in one cycle, the longer the cycle, the higher the efficiency) Capacity: Min: 0.5 Gallons (One of the lowest in the industry!)
                  Max: 1.5 Gallons of hot water at 120F (combined with cold water at faucet, it's enough hot water supply for a legal shower.) Ignition: Electronic two stage control, Advanced Ion Technology. No pilot light to waste fuel! No electrical outlet needed. TWO D Cell batteries power the unit.
                  Price $225.00

                   
                  #9
                    porkchopexpress

                    • Total Posts: 798
                    • Joined: 9/29/2006
                    • Location: White House, TN
                    RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 9:43 AM (permalink)
                    I just bought a pump from www.northerntool.com for $99.99
                     
                    #10
                      Adjudicator

                      • Total Posts: 5055
                      • Joined: 5/20/2003
                      • Location: Tallahassee, FL
                      RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 9:47 AM (permalink)
                      "Max: 1.5 Gallons of hot water at 120F (combined with cold water at faucet, it's enough hot water supply for a legal shower.)"

                      What is a "legal" shower? I think mine are mostly "illegal"...
                       
                      #11
                        dreamzpainter

                        • Total Posts: 1609
                        • Joined: 2/6/2005
                        • Location: jacksonville, FL
                        RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 10:01 AM (permalink)
                        Mine are definately illegal, I have the hotwater heater turned to the max because I like LONG, HOT showers
                         
                        #12
                          Dr of BBQ

                          • Total Posts: 3716
                          • Joined: 10/11/2004
                          • Location: Springfield, IL
                          • Roadfood Insider
                          RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 10:41 AM (permalink)
                          quote:
                          Originally posted by porkchopexpress

                          I just bought a pump from www.northerntool.com for $99.99


                          That's a great site very good selection and a good tip.
                          Thank You
                          Jack@DrofBBQ
                           
                          #13
                            porkchopexpress

                            • Total Posts: 798
                            • Joined: 9/29/2006
                            • Location: White House, TN
                            RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sun, 01/21/07 12:15 PM (permalink)
                            quote:
                            Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

                            quote:
                            Originally posted by porkchopexpress

                            I just bought a pump from www.northerntool.com for $99.99


                            That's a great site very good selection and a good tip.
                            Thank You
                            Jack@DrofBBQ


                            Thanks Dr. I'm going to be in your area in March. We always stay at the Drury Inn in Springfield then on our way to Pekin IL. You'll have to tell me how to get to your location. I'm looking forward to one of those BBQ stuffed potatoes and ribs.
                             
                            #14
                              cowtown

                              • Total Posts: 24
                              • Joined: 1/19/2007
                              • Location: north, LA
                              RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Thu, 02/1/07 4:30 PM (permalink)
                              We contacted R and P Carriages Trailer Sales and bought the 16 and 21 gallon tanks. Tanks arrived yesterday and installation is starting today. The pump is 12 volt, but that's all I really know about it. My husband said the tanks will be a perfect fit, so we are pleased. I'll let y'all know how it goes. Thanks for the input!
                               
                              #15
                                cowtown

                                • Total Posts: 24
                                • Joined: 1/19/2007
                                • Location: north, LA
                                RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 02/10/07 1:02 PM (permalink)
                                Hi! I just thought I would let y'all know that the tanks and pump were installed with no major problems. Only took a dozen trips to the hardware store.

                                The health inspector passed the new plumbing with flying colors, so we are all set to do anything we want. Yippee!!

                                Thanks for the input, guys!!
                                 
                                #16
                                  brentcarlsonlee

                                  • Total Posts: 1
                                  • Joined: 9/23/2010
                                  • Location: Minneapolis, MN
                                  RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Thu, 09/23/10 11:00 AM (permalink)
                                  There is some great info here.  I have a similar issue, but with a twist.  I have a trailer that is set up for situations where you have access to a water supply.  Now, I am planning to do street food where you do NOT have access to a water supply, so I'm trying to retrofit my system to get my hot, running water when I am NOT hooked up to a water supply.
                                   
                                  My current set up involves the main supply going into an 18 gallon water heater and from there supplies a 3 comp sink and hand washing sink.  What is the best way to work with this set up to easily and effectively get me hot, running water when I'm not hooked up to a water supply.  A pump in line after the water heater to pull hot water out of the tank?  Auxiliary, pressurized tank in line before the water heater to keep water pressurized?
                                   
                                  Thanks in advance!
                                   
                                  #17
                                    lornaschinske

                                    • Total Posts: 1610
                                    • Joined: 3/4/2009
                                    • Location: Roswell, NM until we leave for another place
                                    RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Thu, 09/23/10 1:29 PM (permalink)
                                    Water under pressure BEFORE the water heater.
                                     
                                    To make things simple... look at this diagram from http://www.marxrv.com/plumbing/plumb.htm go to the site for more info
                                     

                                     
                                    #18
                                      Mamie

                                      • Total Posts: 202
                                      • Joined: 2/27/2009
                                      RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Thu, 09/23/10 10:28 PM (permalink)
                                      edwmax

                                      Look at mounting the freshwater tank high on the wall (at ceiling in a corner) or on the roof. You won't need a pump. The water will be gravity feed and you could still clean up if you lost power.

                                      If you roof mount, the roof supports may need beefing up. An oval tank would work good on the roof.

                                      that's a great idea.  Does the water feed faster?
                                       
                                      #19
                                        edwmax

                                        • Total Posts: 2014
                                        • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                        • Location: Cairo, GA
                                        RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 9:20 AM (permalink)
                                        Mamie


                                        edwmax

                                        Look at mounting the freshwater tank high on the wall (at ceiling in a corner) or on the roof. You won't need a pump. The water will be gravity feed and you could still clean up if you lost power.

                                        If you roof mount, the roof supports may need beefing up. An oval tank would work good on the roof.

                                        that's a great idea.  Does the water feed faster?

                                        This is an old thread ....///..... oh well ..
                                        Faster than drip ..???   Yes     .... But as fast as a pressurized system ...???   probably not. If you are looking to squirt a 20 ft water stream from a hose, forget it.
                                         
                                        First, a couple of facts:   height (feet) divided by 2.3 = psi (pressure)   ... This will give you reference to your house system.   Most residences use a working water pressure of about 20 to 22 psi and 1/2 dia piping.  Maybe some as much as 30 psi or more, but this is way too much.
                                         
                                        With gravity fed water system, you increase "flow" by increasing height (pressure) or by increasing pipe size.  In a trailer, I think you will have satisfactory flow with 3/4 dia or 1 dia piping.   Also, be careful the sink faucet doesn't unduly restrict the flow.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          lornaschinske

                                          • Total Posts: 1610
                                          • Joined: 3/4/2009
                                          • Location: Roswell, NM until we leave for another place
                                          RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 11:01 AM (permalink)
                                          Some HD's will not allow a gravity fed water system. Corpus Christi/TX regs specifically stated "under pressure".  And so it's an old thread. Someone recently read it and needed more info.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            edwmax

                                            • Total Posts: 2014
                                            • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                            • Location: Cairo, GA
                                            RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 11:37 AM (permalink)
                                            lornaschinske


                                            Some HD's will not allow a gravity fed water system. Corpus Christi/TX regs specifically stated "under pressure".  And so it's an old thread. Someone recently read it and needed more info.


                                            I know! But the fact is most city water systems are Gravity Fed!   An elevated water tank is a Gravity Fed system.  So a vendor can't use these either????   "Under pressure" can be met with an elevated tank.   .... There is more to the HD ban on Gravity Fed system than what is being stated.    ... I think the ban is on "open"top tanks or open vents that allow bugs into the tank. If the above picture system will meet Corpus Christi HD requirements with that open air vent, then there is no reason a gravity fed system can't meet the requirements for "under pressure" too.
                                            <message edited by edwmax on Fri, 09/24/10 11:56 AM>
                                             
                                            #22
                                              edwmax

                                              • Total Posts: 2014
                                              • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                              • Location: Cairo, GA
                                              RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 12:02 PM (permalink)
                                              I think you missing the point of my post from 4 years ago, was that most vendor are not utilizing the space available in the ceiling or on the roof for water supply tanks and "IF" power failed, gravity fed water would still be available for clean-up.   Not so if the tank is under the sink.
                                               
                                              #23
                                                lornaschinske

                                                • Total Posts: 1610
                                                • Joined: 3/4/2009
                                                • Location: Roswell, NM until we leave for another place
                                                RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 3:37 PM (permalink)
                                                edwmax
                                                ..  If the above picture system will meet Corpus Christi HD requirements with that open air vent, then there is no reason a gravity fed system can't meet the requirements for "under pressure" too.


                                                Well, don't try to pull that on the Corpus Christi HD. They said NO to a gravity fed system that we used in NC & NM. Our current system is simliar to the above diagram (except we don't have toilets or showers and no black tank). We were told specifically that we had to add a pump. They took one look at our gravity system and turned us down flat. Never looked at another thing. I am not going to argue with the HD.
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  edwmax

                                                  • Total Posts: 2014
                                                  • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                                  • Location: Cairo, GA
                                                  RE: Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 09/24/10 4:23 PM (permalink)
                                                  I wont argue that most HD inspectors has no idea what a particular code requirement is supposed to be doing and incorrectly interprets a requirement.  .... The above pictured water system with the pump has no inherent safety or sanitary advantage over a gravity feed system.
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    shea1977

                                                    • Total Posts: 1
                                                    • Joined: 3/30/2012
                                                    • Location: midland, TX
                                                    Re:Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 03/30/12 8:43 PM (permalink)
                                                    this thread helped me out but....i thought i was ready to roll i have a rv that was converted to concession stand. the hd inspector said i needed my own water supply and electricity supply. i have permission from the city to stay stationed at my own house and i was running water to the rv with my house water hose and i had a tank to catch my gray water outside the back of the rv that would drain out, i also had an electrical extenstion cord that hooks into the rv to give the concession stand its power. He was new and said that this is not acceptable that i need to buy a genorator for my own electricity and water tanks for my own water supply. Is this correct? i thought i can have power and water from my own house...i dont even know where to get water tanks any advise on this? my rv does have a holding tank for water but not a water pump,etc
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      chefbuba

                                                      • Total Posts: 1952
                                                      • Joined: 6/22/2009
                                                      • Location: Near You, WA
                                                      Re:Water tank in Concession trailer Fri, 03/30/12 9:41 PM (permalink)
                                                      You need to get your answers from the health dept in your town, not on an internet forum.
                                                      Are you vending from in front of your house? Who approved that one?
                                                      Do you have a permit from the health dept to operate?
                                                      The city may have given you permission to park in front of your house, but the health dept WILL have the final say.
                                                      You can not use a garden hose for potable water, you must use a drinking water hose(white)
                                                      Also, your water source needs to be approved by the health dept.
                                                      You need to be able to dispose of your grey water at an approved site. What did you do with the water once it drained into the tank?
                                                      The hd should have no say in where you get your power from.
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        edwmax

                                                        • Total Posts: 2014
                                                        • Joined: 1/1/2007
                                                        • Location: Cairo, GA
                                                        Re:Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 03/31/12 8:03 AM (permalink)
                                                        shea1977


                                                          ..... i also had an electrical extenstion cord that hooks into the rv to give the concession stand its power. He was new and said that this is not acceptable that i need to buy a genorator for my own electricity and water tanks for my own water supply. Is this correct? i thought i can have power and water from my own house... 

                                                        As long as the electrical cord is rated to furnish power at the required amperage and length, it is not in violation of the electrical code.   ... Ask the inspector to show you the Code requirement to furnish 'your own generator & water tanks'.  
                                                         
                                                        I assume the connection at your house for cleaning and keeping the freezer & frig cold when not at your concession location.  There you will need a power hookup and approved water connection or 'water tank'.
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          Dr of BBQ

                                                          • Total Posts: 3716
                                                          • Joined: 10/11/2004
                                                          • Location: Springfield, IL
                                                          • Roadfood Insider
                                                          Re:Water tank in Concession trailer Sat, 03/31/12 9:58 AM (permalink)
                                                          chefbuba
                                                          You need to get your answers from the health dept in your town, not on an internet forum.

                                                           
                                                          The Chef is correct. And I understand that local HD people don't explain things in detail and they may list several items in just a few moments and it's easy to be confused. I'd suggest you get a copy of your local or state requirements (they are usually free) and sit down with your inspector and ask him or her to highlight the specific code your in violation of. Then ask questions lots of questions until you understand what it is that your required to do. In fact it's a good idea to do a drawing and submit it for approval before you make a lot of changes. That will save you money and time.
                                                          jack
                                                           
                                                          #29
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