What A Surprise -- Not Really

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Michael Hoffman
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2012/01/14 14:11:29 (permalink)

What A Surprise -- Not Really

Guess what, Penn State didn't fire Joe Paterno. In fact, he's still getting paid while details of his retirement are worked out.
 
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/13/hoge-joe-paterno-was-never-fired/
#1

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    6star
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/14 16:16:39 (permalink)
    The last line in the article says it all: "In reality, all they (the Board of Trustees) are really doing is showing the world how the hell Penn State let this tragedy happen in the first place."

    #2
    Michael Hoffman
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/14 16:32:01 (permalink)
    Yep.
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    MetroplexJim
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 09:32:20 (permalink)
    I suggest you read this, Coach Paterno's first interview since "the Sandusky hit the fan":
     
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/joe-paternos-first-interview-since-the-penn-state-sandusky-scandal/2012/01/13/gIQA08e4yP_story.html?hpid=z1
     
    (Sally Jenkins is the daughter of Dan Jenkins, the legendary sports journalist).
    #4
    Michael Hoffman
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 09:40:50 (permalink)
    Read it yesterday.
    #5
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 12:44:02 (permalink)
    MetroplexJim:
    If you read the CBS article carefully, you will see it is blaming the Board of Trustees.  Joe Paterno followed what he knew the Board's school policy was, and reported what he had learned only to the Board.  According to the school policy, it was up to the Board of Trustees to take it from there.  Penn State, like a number of other schools, has a (usually unwritten, but very well understood) policy that their employees can do no wrong in public, since it would hurt the school's good name.  In this particular case, the policy has come back to bite them.  And that is why I made my comment about the last line in the article.
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    MetroplexJim
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 17:33:49 (permalink)
    6star

    MetroplexJim:
    If you read the CBS article carefully, you will see it is blaming the Board of Trustees.  Joe Paterno followed what he knew the Board's school policy was, and reported what he had learned only to the Board.  According to the school policy, it was up to the Board of Trustees to take it from there.  Penn State, like a number of other schools, has a (usually unwritten, but very well understood) policy that their employees can do no wrong in public, since it would hurt the school's good name.  In this particular case, the policy has come back to bite them.  And that is why I made my comment about the last line in the article.


    Like the grand jury and the district attorneys found after their seven month investigation I agree that Coach Paterno acted appropriately in this case. 
     
    The PSU Trustees are vile cowards for throwing JoePa "under the bus"; he did exactly that which was was prescribed by their policies. 
     
    Beaver Stadium cannot be renamed Paterno Field soon enough.  
    #7
    saps
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 18:56:08 (permalink)
    MetroplexJim

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    MetroplexJim:
    If you read the CBS article carefully, you will see it is blaming the Board of Trustees.  Joe Paterno followed what he knew the Board's school policy was, and reported what he had learned only to the Board.  According to the school policy, it was up to the Board of Trustees to take it from there.  Penn State, like a number of other schools, has a (usually unwritten, but very well understood) policy that their employees can do no wrong in public, since it would hurt the school's good name.  In this particular case, the policy has come back to bite them.  And that is why I made my comment about the last line in the article.


    Like the grand jury and the district attorneys found after their seven month investigation I agree that Coach Paterno acted appropriately in this case. 

    The PSU Trustees are vile cowards for throwing JoePa "under the bus"; he did exactly that which was was prescribed by their policies. 

    Beaver Stadium cannot be renamed Paterno Field soon enough.  

    Of course you think he acted correctly.
     
    Well by now we've pretty much heard every apologist and idol worsipper take up for JoePa.  Some like to take the "he didn't know" angle and some like to take the "he fulfilled his legal obligation" angle.  How scary and dark this world would be if we all just followed our legal obligations.

    While Sandusky is guilty of his own acts, Paterno bears a different kind of guilt.  It’s not Paterno’s job to police the university. But it is absolutely his job to police his program, and he failed miserably in that. Moreover, he allowed Sandusky to use the football progam as a vehicle for his molestations. He brought kids to practice, traveled with them to Bowl Games, and used the facilities to have sex with them- All on Joe Paterno’s watch. Sandusky was very close to Paterno, so we can all quit pretending that Joe didn’t know anything, and the abruptness of Sandusky stepping down after being the heir apparent to Paterno for so long is suspicious. Where there is smoke there is typically fire, and there is a lot of it around here.
     
    Do you really think that Paterno had no idea what was going on for that long of a time? It was probably the worst kept secret of the athletic department. Paterno’s responsibility was the football program and anything that happens on his watch is his responsibility. If he is that stupid and that ignorant about what was going on right under his nose, than he has no business running a program that large in the first place. In order for Paterno to run a clean program, which apparently he has, he had to be extremely diligent, observational, and intuitive to do so. Let’s not sit here and pretend that he suddenly lost those abilities in the case of Sandusky. I don’t know if you have kids, but if this occurred at your kids high school, you’d be asking for the football coach and principal’s heads, and rightfully so. I don’t know why it’s any different for Paterno.
     
    I love the Penn State outrage and rioting against Paterno’s- I wish the students had the same passion for Sandusky’s victims or showed that anger at Sandusky. The fact that they still need town hall meetings to explain why JoPa was fired to the students and faculty is more indicative of a cult-like sickness at PSU then anything else. Also, let’s keep in mind that this spineless university didn’t even fire him- they are still paying him and allowing him to retire. 
    I find it amazing that the Penn State supporters still can’t understand why Paterno was fired. It’s simple- he ran the football program, and he allowed a subordinate to use the program to perform criminal acts, and JoPa had knowledge of some of those act, and apparently only used the legal minimum of what he needed to do.
    Ask yourself something- would you send your kid college to play under a coach whose first priority was the program and was known for doing the legal minimum of what he should do, eschewing morals, ethics, and common sense in order to protect himself?  it sounds like you would.
     
    The bottom line is that, at the very least, even if one is such a pollyanna that they believe that Paterno had no knowledge of what was going on, then his (Paterno's) ignorance would show an inability to run or control a high-revenue, high-visibility program where such blatant transgressions are occurring, right within university facilities within the football program as a vehicle to facilitate this crimes of his friend, his assistant that he brought in, and under his watch.
    #8
    Michael Hoffman
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 20:22:09 (permalink)
    I find this difficult to believe, but I have to commend saps for his position. I agree with him 100 percent. There's more to being in charge than merely fulfilling legal obligations.
    #9
    chewingthefat
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/15 21:28:54 (permalink)
    saps

    MetroplexJim

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    MetroplexJim:
    If you read the CBS article carefully, you will see it is blaming the Board of Trustees.  Joe Paterno followed what he knew the Board's school policy was, and reported what he had learned only to the Board.  According to the school policy, it was up to the Board of Trustees to take it from there.  Penn State, like a number of other schools, has a (usually unwritten, but very well understood) policy that their employees can do no wrong in public, since it would hurt the school's good name.  In this particular case, the policy has come back to bite them.  And that is why I made my comment about the last line in the article.


    Like the grand jury and the district attorneys found after their seven month investigation I agree that Coach Paterno acted appropriately in this case. 

    The PSU Trustees are vile cowards for throwing JoePa "under the bus"; he did exactly that which was was prescribed by their policies. 

    Beaver Stadium cannot be renamed Paterno Field soon enough.  

    Of course you think he acted correctly.

    Well by now we've pretty much heard every apologist and idol worsipper take up for JoePa.  Some like to take the "he didn't know" angle and some like to take the "he fulfilled his legal obligation" angle.  How scary and dark this world would be if we all just followed our legal obligations.

    While Sandusky is guilty of his own acts, Paterno bears a different kind of guilt.  It’s not Paterno’s job to police the university. But it is absolutely his job to police his program, and he failed miserably in that. Moreover, he allowed Sandusky to use the football progam as a vehicle for his molestations. He brought kids to practice, traveled with them to Bowl Games, and used the facilities to have sex with them- All on Joe Paterno’s watch. Sandusky was very close to Paterno, so we can all quit pretending that Joe didn’t know anything, and the abruptness of Sandusky stepping down after being the heir apparent to Paterno for so long is suspicious. Where there is smoke there is typically fire, and there is a lot of it around here.

    Do you really think that Paterno had no idea what was going on for that long of a time? It was probably the worst kept secret of the athletic department. Paterno’s responsibility was the football program and anything that happens on his watch is his responsibility. If he is that stupid and that ignorant about what was going on right under his nose, than he has no business running a program that large in the first place. In order for Paterno to run a clean program, which apparently he has, he had to be extremely diligent, observational, and intuitive to do so. Let’s not sit here and pretend that he suddenly lost those abilities in the case of Sandusky. I don’t know if you have kids, but if this occurred at your kids high school, you’d be asking for the football coach and principal’s heads, and rightfully so. I don’t know why it’s any different for Paterno.

    I love the Penn State outrage and rioting against Paterno’s- I wish the students had the same passion for Sandusky’s victims or showed that anger at Sandusky. The fact that they still need town hall meetings to explain why JoPa was fired to the students and faculty is more indicative of a cult-like sickness at PSU then anything else. Also, let’s keep in mind that this spineless university didn’t even fire him- they are still paying him and allowing him to retire. 
    I find it amazing that the Penn State supporters still can’t understand why Paterno was fired. It’s simple- he ran the football program, and he allowed a subordinate to use the program to perform criminal acts, and JoPa had knowledge of some of those act, and apparently only used the legal minimum of what he needed to do.
    Ask yourself something- would you send your kid college to play under a coach whose first priority was the program and was known for doing the legal minimum of what he should do, eschewing morals, ethics, and common sense in order to protect himself?  it sounds like you would.

    The bottom line is that, at the very least, even if one is such a pollyanna that they believe that Paterno had no knowledge of what was going on, then his (Paterno's) ignorance would show an inability to run or control a high-revenue, high-visibility program where such blatant transgressions are occurring, right within university facilities within the football program as a vehicle to facilitate this crimes of his friend, his assistant that he brought in, and under his watch.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
    saps, there is this
     
    In otherwords, hold your fire.
    It may well be true, but if not, many lives have been ruined anyhow. Let the courts decide, then opine!
    post edited by chewingthefat - 2012/01/15 21:34:30
    #10
    MikeS.
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/17 09:17:45 (permalink)
    Well heck, I agree with saps and MH. Once Mr. Paterno saw that the board wasn't going to do the right thing and notify the police immediately he should have done the morally right thing and called them himself.
    #11
    Russ Jackson
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/17 11:03:22 (permalink)
    Quote by Paterno:  Paterno said he ''didn't know which way to go'' after an assistant coach came to him in 2002 saying he had seen retired defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky sexually abusing a boy.
     
    Once he knew about it and was told it was his obligation to the child, family, university, players, coaches, and everyone else under him including the fans to make sure he did not touch anyone else. Or fire the coach that told him of the incidence. He should have gotten a lawyer and called the Police. He makes enough money to make proper decisions....Russ
    #12
    eruby
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/17 14:20:29 (permalink)
    A lot of pro sports athletes and coaches get fired but still get paid.  Now if he were fired for cause (as well he perhaps should have been), then that might be breach of contract and then he wouldn't get paid.
     
    While I'm no pollyanna, people have a great duty to look after those under them and it's my opinion Joe Paterno failed.
    #13
    FriedClamFanatic
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/18 17:27:11 (permalink)
    I believe "fired" is a media term, not Penn States nor Paterno's.  Often in a severance case there is a bit of negotiation especially when there is no cause.
     
    The stmt from the University was............." Additionally, the board determined that it is in the best interest of the University for Joe Paterno to no longer serve as head football coach, effective immediately.”
     
    Yeah.he was removed from the job, and will eventually be out of the University,  but I think the article is making much ado about nothing

    [link=javascript:;] [/link][link=javascript:;] [/link]

    #14
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/21 19:23:30 (permalink)
    I thought you might be interested.  JoePa has taken a turn for the worse, and he has been taken off the respirator.
    http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/1/21/2724071/joe-paternos-health-lunch-cancer-decline-respirator-penn-state-football
    #15
    MetroplexJim
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/22 15:08:46 (permalink)
    The real question that has been ignored by the pre-judging, sanctimonious jackals here and elsewhere is:  Exactly what did McQueary tell Paterno? 
     
    McQueary testifed under oath to the grand jury that he was purposefully vague with Paterno, out of deference to his age and generation.  He said, "You don't talk about those things with Joe Paterno."
     
    And despite this fact the jackals tore and gnashed for their pound of flesh.  Shame be upon these shameless.
     
    The Coach is gone now. 
     
    The world no longer deserved him.
    #16
    saps
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/22 22:58:49 (permalink)
    "The world no longer deserved him".
     
    This is indicative of the larger-than-life, almost cultish worship of some college head coaches that hold a high degree of control not only over the sports program, but over the athletic department and and the university itself.  People tend to ignore there foibles and build them up as something near super-human.
     
    He was a football coach who had a positive influence on a lot of players.  He's really not any better or more special than so many teachers that do the same.  No coach is.
    #17
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/23 01:01:54 (permalink)
    I fully agree with saps.  The more any coach's teams win (and the less they lose), the more the "legend" about him builds.  It is really sad whenever any school, college or university so reveres their winning coach that all the other really accomplished professors are relegated to the "sidelines". 
     
    I think that this attitude is one of the problems we have here in the United States, with millions of sports enthusiasts glued to their TV sets every weekend night watching games that take precedence over programs such as "60 Minutes".  If we could garner the same public enthusiasm for science, for example, just think how much more we would be able to accomplish.
    #18
    eruby
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/23 10:21:19 (permalink)
    In Pace Requiescat,  Joe Paterno.
    #19
    Russ Jackson
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/24 08:38:19 (permalink)
     I differ on the level of responsibility when it comes to having knowledge of pedophilia. It was Paterno's shower. It was on Paterno's watch
    Paterno was Penn State Sports IMO. I would have made sure that the proper authorities (The Police) had my 100% support in getting to the bottom of it
    no matter what it took. Responsibility at Paterno's level is much higher. He was the face of a University for over 4 decades. He is synonymous with Penn State.
    This is just my opinion. But if someone told me that a naked man and a boy were in my shower heads would roll. All the facts aren't in but the ones I have seen leaves him dropping the ball....Russ
    #20
    MetroplexJim
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/24 10:03:51 (permalink)
    Russ Jackson

     I differ on the level of responsibility when it comes to having knowledge of pedophilia. It was Paterno's shower. It was on Paterno's watch
    Paterno was Penn State Sports IMO. I would have made sure that the proper authorities (The Police) had my 100% support in getting to the bottom of it
    no matter what it took. Responsibility at Paterno's level is much higher. He was the face of a University for over 4 decades. He is synonymous with Penn State.
    This is just my opinion. But if someone told me that a naked man and a boy were in my shower heads would roll. All the facts aren't in but the ones I have seen leaves him dropping the ball....Russ

    Again: McQueary testifed under oath to the grand jury that he was purposefully vague with Paterno, out of deference to his age and generation.  He said, "You don't talk about those things with Joe Paterno." 
     
    Despite having the benefit of only a highly sanitized version of what had happened Coach Paterno told his boss, the Director of Athletics and his boss' boss, the Vice President for Administration to investigate.  Both those individuals have now been indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice.
     
    Technical "ranks" aside, as a practical matter, when the Coach told anyone at PSU to do something, it was done.  That privilege was earned over a half-century of acts that led even his competitors to weep openly upon the news of his death; I'm sure that the Coach of all Coaches believed in his heart that was all he had to do to ensure a thorough, proper, legal investigation that would result in justice being done.
     
    I have to return to McQueary with two questions:
     
    1)  As you are a 6'5" 240# athlete in your physical prime, what prevented you from stopping whatever you witnessed a 60 something AARP member doing in that shower?
     
    2)  Failing that, why didn't you "grow some", get the sh*t out of your mouth, and tell the Coach exactly what you witnessed, rather than - in your own sworn words - be purposely vague about it?
     
    Frankly, I think the answer to #1 is physical cowaardice and the answer to #2 is moral and physical cowardice as he knew that, had he been frank and honest with the Coach, the first words out of the Coach's mouth would have been an unsanitized version of question #1!
    And that question, given Paterno's famous temper, would have been hard to face.  For a coward it would have been impossible.
     
    This whole sad affair would have had quite a different ending had McQueary simply told Coach Paterno:  "I saw Sandusky (blanking) a 10 year old boy in the (blank)."  Frankly, I don't know what Paterno would have reached for first - the phone or a gun.
     
    Time will tell this story properly.  Even the jackals will know shame.
    #21
    Russ Jackson
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/24 11:36:35 (permalink)
    Hopefully time will tell the whole story and we find that Paterno had no guilt. Still can't figure why they fired him though. Even if he is guilty I bet it is taken to the grave. The children will or have been compensated. Lives destroyed by a pig. Covered up by the boosters and management. If they would have reacted in the first place how many children would have been saved from this predator. These are all questions we will most likely never know the answers. Paterno knows now and its really his cross to bear now. Sad story and a sad ending....Russ 
    #22
    joerogo
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    Re:What A Surprise -- Not Really 2012/01/24 13:52:53 (permalink)
    So far, only one person stepped forward and said, "I should have done more".  Only one person had the integrity to make that statement, admitting he made a mistake.
     
    Just be happy that you are not judged, for the rest of your life, for what can be called your lowest moment.  I know I wouldn't want to be treated like that.  
     
    Heck, with my big mouth(and typing fingers), if everyone stayed angry with me, I'd have to move into the space station. 
     
    Go to 5:24 minutes and hear the story from my buddy Walter NEPAski......

    post edited by joerogo - 2012/01/24 17:54:41
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