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 What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different?

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scotdc

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  • Joined: 1/2/2009
  • Location: las vegas, NV
What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Wed, 02/2/11 2:38 PM (permalink)
I'm doing a little research into Philadelphia-style hoagies. Chime in on your iconic sandwich and why it's different than New York, Maine or Subway sandwiches.
Here's my questions:
1. Yes, I know it's about the bread, but this is for the rest of us in the world that can't get Amoroso's in our home town. I've heard it's not as crusty as New York grinders, and a medium-soft texture to the inside that lies somewhere between NY and the pillow-softness of New Orleans po' boys.
2. This is NOT about the cheesesteak!! I'm talking specifically about the ITALIAN cold hoagie.
3. Mayo... yes or no?
4. Vinegar... yes or no?
5. Favorite cold cuts?
6. Is salami a must?
7. How about capicola?
8. Spice blend... is it just salt, pepper, basil, oregano?
9 Peppers.. yes or no? Chopped in a relish or whole? Hot or sweet?
 
Go ahead you Philly experts! Break down you Philly favs for me.
 
Thanks a lot for your input.
<message edited by scotdc on Wed, 02/2/11 2:40 PM>
 
#1
    joclyn

    • Total Posts: 360
    • Joined: 1/24/2009
    • Location: montco, pa
    Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Wed, 02/2/11 11:32 PM (permalink)
    an ITALIAN hoagie has capicola ham, genoa salami and provolone cheese
     
    hoagies are made by layering the meat onto the roll and then adding lettuce, tomato, onion & peppers (sweet or hot) and those are topped with s&p, oregano and oil.  some places use a combo of oil/red wine vinegar. 
     
    although oil is the standard condiment, mayo is certainly okay and you can request it be used instead of (or in addition to) oil.  mayo is usually put on the roll rather than on the ltop.
     
    an ITALIAN is made with capicola ham, genoa salami and provolone cheese (sometimes cooked salami is used)
     
    a ham & cheese usually is regular boiled ham and american cheese (you can request other types of ham or cheese, though)
     
    on a roast beef  it's either/or for mayo or oil and it's usually asked which you want.  the usual cheese is american although some places use provolone.
     
    cheese hoagies are a mix of american, provolone & swiss.
     
    GRINDERS are any of the above (and a multitude of other meat combinations) that are put into the oven for a few minutes to warm the meats and make the roll crusty. 
    <message edited by joclyn on Wed, 02/2/11 11:38 PM>
     
    #2
      joclyn

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      • Location: montco, pa
      Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Wed, 02/2/11 11:36 PM (permalink)
      yes, amoroso rolls are the 'standard' that most places around here use and they're pretty good, too.
       
      there ARE better rolls for hoagies, though!!!! 
       
      del buono's bakery in haddon heights, nj has better tasting and better quality rolls and they are my much preferred choice for hoagies!
       
      #3
        Foodbme

        • Total Posts: 9526
        • Joined: 9/1/2006
        • Location: Gilbert, AZ
        Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 02/3/11 2:06 AM (permalink)
        Since you're in Las Vegas, here's a East Coast Chain that makes VERY GOOD Hoagies! They started in Delaware near Philly. They have 8 locations in the Las Vegas area. http://www.capriottis.com/locations.php?search=Las+Vegas
        They're also in Henderson, Sparks, Reno, Elko, etc
        They were voted:
        • LV Weekly 2010 Vegas’ Best - Vegas’ Best Food - Best Sandwich
        • Las Vegas Review-Journal 2010  “Best of Las Vegas” – Best Sub Sandwich
        <message edited by Foodbme on Thu, 02/3/11 12:00 PM>
         
        #4
          ChrisOC

          • Total Posts: 900
          • Joined: 7/9/2008
          • Location: Ocean City, NJ
          Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 02/3/11 8:45 AM (permalink)
          IMHO if it is not Italian it is not a hoagie!!!!
           
          #5
            joclyn

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            • Location: montco, pa
            Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Fri, 02/4/11 6:36 AM (permalink)
            ChrisOC


            IMHO if it is not Italian it is not a hoagie!!!!


            well, true, the 'original' type of hoagie was made with the italian meats. 
             
            for those of us that can't eat them (nitrites/nitrates in the salami) and/or just don't like the spicy capicola, a good, rare roast beef with some good provolone will do very well as an alternate :)
             
            #6
              ChrisOC

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              • Location: Ocean City, NJ
              Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Sun, 02/6/11 11:45 AM (permalink)
              My kind of hoagie would be;
               
              1  On a Philly style roll (Amoroso's) or an Atlantic City style (Formica)
               
              2  Oil and vinegar on the roll
               
              3  Genoa salami, cooked salami and capicola
               
              4 Good sharp provolone (not that round american cheese)
               
              5  Salt, pepper and oregano
               
              6  Sliced hot peppers
               
              7  It should look like this..............
               

               
                Atlantic City, White House sub.
              <message edited by ChrisOC on Mon, 02/6/12 5:23 PM>
               
              #7
                sonjaab

                • Total Posts: 193
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                • Location: Syracuse, NY
                Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 3:38 PM (permalink)
                JOYC.........Del Buonos bread.........
                is that the place on the Black Horse Pike down the street from
                Di-Nics?  It has the horse statue on the corner????????
                 
                What no comments on "gobba-goo" meat on those Ital. subs?
                aka mortadella and/or prociutto ????????????
                <message edited by sonjaab on Tue, 02/8/11 3:40 PM>
                 
                #8
                  MiamiDon

                  Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 4:30 PM (permalink)
                  Foodbme


                  Since you're in Las Vegas, here's a East Coast Chain that makes VERY GOOD Hoagies! They started in Delaware near Philly. They have 8 locations in the Las Vegas area. http://www.capriottis.com/locations.php?search=Las+Vegas
                  They're also in Henderson, Sparks, Reno, Elko, etc
                  They were voted:
                  • LV Weekly 2010 Vegas’ Best - Vegas’ Best Food - Best Sandwich
                  • Las Vegas Review-Journal 2010  “Best of Las Vegas” – Best Sub Sandwich



                  What is your favorite sandwich that you have eaten at Capriotti's?  At which Capriotti's did you dine?
                   
                  #9
                    analei

                    • Total Posts: 533
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                    • Location: ONTARIO, CANADA
                    Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 4:48 PM (permalink)
                    MMMMM..that looks good. I do not ever recall a hoagie with mayo though, the rest seems all good and there are variations. 
                     
                    #10
                      Foodbme

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                      • Location: Gilbert, AZ
                      Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 4:58 PM (permalink)
                      MiamiDon


                      Foodbme


                      Since you're in Las Vegas, here's a East Coast Chain that makes VERY GOOD Hoagies! They started in Delaware near Philly. They have 8 locations in the Las Vegas area. http://www.capriottis.com/locations.php?search=Las+Vegas
                      They're also in Henderson, Sparks, Reno, Elko, etc
                      They were voted:
                      • LV Weekly 2010 Vegas’ Best - Vegas’ Best Food - Best Sandwich
                      • Las Vegas Review-Journal 2010  “Best of Las Vegas” – Best Sub Sandwich



                      What is your favorite sandwich that you have eaten at Capriotti's?  At which Capriotti's did you dine?

                      I like their Philly Cheesesteak with Grilled Onions and Mushrooms and the Meatball. Both are so good that I haven't ventured into the rest of the menu. Others tell me the other ones made with turkey are good also.
                      I've been to the 2 locations in AZ. One is a franchise & one is a company store.
                       
                      #11
                        Holly Moore

                        Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 6:15 PM (permalink)
                        Historians differ on the origin of the hoagie, but I favor the Hog Island version.  Wives would hollow out a pocket in a round loaf of bread and fill it with a sort of chopped antipasto salad.  Their husband, who built ships on Hog Island would take them to work with lunch - Hoggies, which evolved into hoagies.
                         
                        http://citypaper.net/arti...70695/article020.shtml
                         
                         
                        #12
                          Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle

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                          Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 7:27 PM (permalink)
                          I like mayo on hoagies but, yeah, it's generally frowned upon around the Delaware Valley.
                           
                          I would contend that a hoagie is defined by lettuce-tomatoes-onions.  You don't order a hoagie with lettuce and tomatoes, you order a hoagie no onions.  Peppers, sweet or hot, are usually an option.  Some sort of version of dressing, be it oil and vinegar, oil and Italian spices, etc. usually goes without saying but there are places that don't use it.  Cold cuts of choice are variable, depending on the quality of the restaurant, but they are chosen from among: Italian salamis, capicola (hot or sweet), "hot ham," prosciutto (but not the fancy stuff), sopressata (hot or sweet), and provolone (sharp or mild).  Sometimes plain old American ham and salami finds its way in.  Good fresh bread is important but artisan loaves are rare.
                           
                          #13
                            KevinBurg

                            • Total Posts: 37
                            • Joined: 2/6/2008
                            • Location: philadelphia, PA
                            Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 7:35 PM (permalink)
                            My favorite Italian hoagie consists of an iceberg/romaine lettuce mix, tomatos, onion, dry cured capicola, proscuitto, crumbled sharp provolone, sweet or hot peppers and mayo and oil on a French bread roll. I find the crusty French bread to be the best and easiest to eat.
                            Up until a few years ago I thought it taboo to put mayo on an Italian hoagie, until my father convinced me to try oil AND mayo - I've been a huge fan ever since.
                            The hoagie I'm describing is called the Downtowner and can be found at Jack's Place in the Tacony section of Philadelphia.     
                            <message edited by KevinBurg on Tue, 02/8/11 7:39 PM>
                             
                            #14
                              Michael Hoffman

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                              Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 9:11 PM (permalink)
                              The only Hog Island I ever knew is now called Paradise Island. But back in the '50s it ws Hog Island because of the wild hogs that lived there, and that provided good eating for the residents of Nassau who used to chase them down and kill them with knives.
                               
                              #15
                                ann peeples

                                • Total Posts: 8317
                                • Joined: 5/21/2006
                                • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
                                Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Tue, 02/8/11 9:14 PM (permalink)
                                No mayo on my Italian hoagies. Yech.
                                 
                                #16
                                  stricken_detective

                                  • Total Posts: 2330
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                                  Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Wed, 02/9/11 11:56 PM (permalink)
                                  sonjaab
                                  What no comments on "gobba-goo" meat on those Ital. subs?
                                  aka mortadella and/or prociutto ????????????
                                  Is this English?

                                   
                                  #17
                                    stricken_detective

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                                    Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 02/10/11 12:10 AM (permalink)
                                    scotdc
                                    I'm doing a little research into Philadelphia-style hoagies. Chime in on your iconic sandwich and why it's different than New York, Maine or Subway sandwiches.
                                    Here's my questions:
                                    Italians are in places other than Philly, you know.We're kinda like Elvis: we're everywhere.



                                    1. Yes, I know it's about the bread, but this is for the rest of us in the world that can't get Amoroso's in our home town. I've heard it's not as crusty as New York grinders, and a medium-soft texture to the inside that lies somewhere between NY and the pillow-softness of New Orleans po' boys.
                                    Pillows are for your bed. The bread should be crusty. Your mouth should be a little bit afraid it might get cut eating the sandwich. This is a healthy fear. We have a place here that does cornmeal on the bottom of the bread. OMG is it goooood.

                                    2. This is NOT about the cheesesteak!! I'm talking specifically about the ITALIAN cold hoagie.
                                    Hoagie, sandwich, sub, grinder, etc. We get it.

                                    3. Mayo... yes or no?
                                    ^^that is redonkulous.  I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Grooooossssss. This is how you know someone isn't paisan!!!!

                                    4. Vinegar... yes or no?
                                    Yes, then the oil goes on second. If you do it the other way around, you'll NEVER make that mistake again.

                                    5. Favorite cold cuts?
                                    Hot coppa, soprasetta, salami.

                                    6. Is salami a must?
                                    Do bears crap in the woods?

                                    7. How about capicola?
                                    Please see "hot coppa" above. There is no letter G in this word at all.

                                    8. Spice blend... is it just salt, pepper, basil, oregano?
                                    I could tell you but I would have to kill you. J/k. It depends on what you like. I work with someone who hates oregano. My mom hates basil. I would prefer red pepper flakes, oregano & cracked black pepper, then red wine vinegar, then olive oil. Not extra-virgin. Give me my olive oil extra slutty.

                                    9 Peppers.. yes or no? Chopped in a relish or whole? Hot or sweet?
                                    Giardinera.
                                    <message edited by stricken_detective on Thu, 02/10/11 12:11 AM>
                                     
                                    #18
                                      joclyn

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                                      Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 02/10/11 1:52 AM (permalink)
                                      sonjaab


                                      JOYC.........Del Buonos bread.........
                                      is that the place on the Black Horse Pike down the street from
                                      Di-Nics?  It has the horse statue on the corner????????

                                       
                                      yes, del buono's is right down the road (on the opposite side).

                                       
                                      #19
                                        johnnymolson

                                        • Total Posts: 90
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                                        • Location: Brockville, Ontario, XX
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                                        Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 02/10/11 3:48 AM (permalink)
                                        This thread is bringing back the very fond memory I have of Sarcone's. 
                                         
                                        #20
                                          clh323

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                                          • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
                                          Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 11/17/11 11:11 AM (permalink)
                                          A Philadelphia italian hoagie has some "must haves" and then some options.  The must haves include an Amoroso hoagie roll, oil, ham (priciotto makes it precious), capacola, genoa salami, a dry provolone, and oregano.  Options include lettuce, tomato, onion, hot and/or sweet peppers, red pepper spread, salt, pepper (and a little more oil)
                                           
                                          Things not on a true Philly Italian Hoagie.  No mayo, no american or chedder cheese, no pickles, no baloney or cheap salami.  A great hoagie builder will pluck a little bread from each side of the roll to hollow it out a bit then oil the roll to start.  Either meat first, then veggies, then cheese or start with the cheese and end with the meat, it doesn't really matter because a knowledgeable hoagie eater will flip the ingredients in the roll just prior to eating anyway.
                                           
                                          Go ahead and make switches, tastes are different but this has been the "recipe" for the bests hoagies in Philly.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            MiamiDon

                                            Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 11/17/11 6:17 PM (permalink)
                                            Michael Hoffman


                                            The only Hog Island I ever knew is now called Paradise Island. But back in the '50s it ws Hog Island because of the wild hogs that lived there, and that provided good eating for the residents of Nassau who used to chase them down and kill them with knives.


                                            Are you referring to Paradise Island in the Bahamas?
                                             
                                            #22
                                              Michael Hoffman

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                                              Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Thu, 11/17/11 7:33 PM (permalink)
                                              I am.
                                               
                                              #23
                                                pnwchef

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                                                • Location: Kennewick, WA
                                                Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Fri, 11/18/11 9:52 AM (permalink)
                                                The Italian Hoagie I grew up with was the Italian grinder. The italian cured meats were layered on the Italian Grinder roll with a good quality Provolone cheese, they would then heat it in the pizza over so the cured meats were warm and the cheese is melted. They would then top the Grinder with lettuce, tomatoes, Italian hot and sweet peppers, olives, thin sliced onions, oil and vinegar, salt and pepper. The heated cured meats have a great taste when you release the fats, it brings a whole different taste to the sandwich. IMHO, Cold cured meats layered in a sandwich do nothing for the flavor of a good Italian Hoagie, sub, or Grinder, compared to a heated, melted, crispy and chewy Italian Grinder.......................pnwc
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  ChrisOC

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                                                  Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Fri, 11/18/11 7:35 PM (permalink)
                                                  In Philly, the home of the true hoagie, if you heat it it becomes a grinder.  If you want a hoagie, it is cold.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    ChrisOC

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                                                    Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Fri, 11/18/11 7:54 PM (permalink)
                                                    Contrary to popular belief, you don't need Amoroso's for a true philly style hoagie.  Sarcone's is very good also, and in Atlantic City, the White House uses rolls from Formica Bros. Bakery.  That is the one pictured in post #7
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      joclyn

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                                                      Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Sun, 11/20/11 2:55 AM (permalink)
                                                      absolutely correct, chris!!  amoroso rolls are not a requirement for a hoagie!! 
                                                       
                                                      actually, i was used to amoroso rolls being used - since i was born in philly & grew up in the burbs, the amoroso roll is what is commonly used.  when i moved to nj a few places used something else and i never knew what bakery they came from - those rolls were far superior to amoroso's, that's for sure!!
                                                       
                                                      then i moved and found out about del buono's - which was 3 blocks from my apt.  THAT was the place these nj hoagie shops were getting their rolls from!  they have a bit more 'umph' to them and they're a bit crusty - not overly so, though.  holds up much better than the amoroso roll - although, i do prefer them for a cheesesteak :)
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        saps

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                                                        Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Sun, 11/20/11 4:58 AM (permalink)
                                                        stricken_detective


                                                        sonjaab
                                                        What no comments on "gobba-goo" meat on those Ital. subs?
                                                        aka mortadella and/or prociutto ????????????
                                                        Is this English?

                                                         
                                                        The only mistake that he made was missing an "s" on prosciutto.  "Gobba-goo" or "gobbagool" or "gobbagol" is a slangy pronunciation of capicola.  I've heard old-italians use it (such as my grandparents), but I haven't heard it in years.

                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          pnwchef

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                                                          Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Sun, 11/20/11 9:02 AM (permalink)
                                                          saps


                                                          stricken_detective


                                                          sonjaab
                                                          What no comments on "gobba-goo" meat on those Ital. subs?
                                                          aka mortadella and/or prociutto ????????????
                                                          Is this English?


                                                          The only mistake that he made was missing an "s" on prosciutto.  "Gobba-goo" or "gobbagool" or "gobbagol" is a slangy pronunciation of capicola.  I've heard old-italians use it (such as my grandparents), but I haven't heard it in years.

                                                          I was standing in line in a Italian deli once, a lady ordered Capicola, the Italian deli owner said, I'm going to tell you once, it's not Capicola, Its Gabba-gool, now how much would you like. That's how you get your orientation at your local Italian deli.
                                                          1. gabagool. "Gabagool" is slang for "capicola." It is not a mispronunciation, but is instead in Napolitan dialect, which is what the Sopranos and many Italian-Americans use.
                                                          The rule in this dialect is to chop off ending vowels and to voice unvoiced consonants.

                                                          Ricotta-"rigot"
                                                          Manicotti-"manigot"
                                                          <message edited by PNWCHEF on Sun, 11/20/11 9:40 AM>
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            gostillerz

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                                                            Re:What Makes the Philadelphia Italian Hoagie Different? Sun, 11/20/11 4:34 PM (permalink)
                                                            Bread is by far the most important part. It needs to be crusty on the outside, but with chew on the inside. Everyone yaps that it has to be Amoroso. Well a lot of joints in Philly don't use Amoroso. In Pittsburgh Breadworks Italian sticks are very good. Basically, just get a crusty french bread and scoop out some of the middle.
                                                             
                                                            Layer Genoa salami, capicola, maybe some mortadella, then a sharp provolone, shredded lettuce, paper thin sliced onions, tomatoes, hot peppers if you're feeling froggy, then oregano, pepper and olive oil. If you have the time, wrap it up very tight and put it in the fridge for 4 hours. If you want a hoagie, it has to be cold. In Pittsburgh, the default is baked, so I have to ask for it cold.
                                                             
                                                            No mayo
                                                            No jumbo (even though mortadella is technically a jumbo)
                                                            No other cheese except for provolone
                                                            No pickles
                                                            No vinaigrettes
                                                            I'm not sure about the Philly guys on this one, but no pepperoni for me (reminds me of Subway).
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            #30
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