Where do you stand regarding the immigration bill?

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Bad

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

Originally posted by Tony Bad

coming from a family of teachers and a teacher myself (I'm still licensed) that's a twisted way of looking at it. We're happy to point out our successes. Sure - who isn't? But when we fail it's not from a lack of trying. In fact, we usually give more chances to the underachievers. It's usually the parent(s) who blocks us from reaching their child. They defend the child's poor behavior and lack of motivation, making it nearly impossible for us to get through.

I can only imagine the difficulty that the poor support you get from home adds to your job. I am confident that most teachers DO try, and failures are the result of a complex of factors...what I meant though is that as an influencing factor in a child's life, a teacher has the potential to be a positive or a negative. I am not anti-teacher by any means, but there are some bad apples in the bunch.

yeah, but no more bad apples in teaching than any other profession.

BTW, I don't currently teach. My license is still valid though and I may return to the classroom as early as next Fall.

This was just emailed to me:
CHEAP TOMATOES?
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent
From a California school teacher :
"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of: I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels. Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools. Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and a roll, but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial.. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears. Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs. Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return? There are many hardworking Hispanic/ American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way. It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about? Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage. Consumers don't want expensive produce. Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor." Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free. He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent. He qualifies for food stamps. He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care. His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school. He requires bilingual teachers and books. He qualifies for relief from high energy bills. If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense. He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance. Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material. He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits. Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his. The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people. THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!' THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

yeah, but no more bad apples in teaching than any other profession.

If I suggested I felt otherwise, I am sorry.

Sorry to stray off the original topic!

Beware racist tirades like the one above (CHEAP TOMATOES) making the email rounds. There may be a scrap or two of truth in there, but most of it is almost certainly unsubstantiated drivel meant to resonate with some people's worst preconceptions.

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Bilmes & Sue Boyle

Beware racist tirades like the one above (CHEAP TOMATOES) making the email rounds. There may be a scrap or two of truth in there, but most of it is almost certainly unsubstantiated drivel meant to resonate with some people's worst preconceptions.

I almost bit on the hook and started to write back a fury of arguments, but realized that a short, inciteful response such as yours is the only retort needed.

It's hard to believe a teacher wrote this, but maybe Tony is right after all. Which only makes me want to get in the classroom sooner, to straighten out any teacher(s) who would be so obtuse.

I'm definately NOT on one side or the other.....but who is going to pick the dates in CA or the broccoli or the cauliflower or the romaine or the green beans??? What about the apricots, oranges, grapefruit, lemons and limes? And if anyone thinks that in 25 years of being in the restaurant biz that American kids could be dishwashers........think again. I have seen them work 4 hours and leave. I finally gave up and hired ILLEGAL Brazilians. Yep. They WANT to work. That's why they're here. Who else is going to do the grunt work?

Another thing that I have noticed at the McDonalds (GASP) around here is that when I take the grandchildren (for a special treat) to the drive-thru, it is so much more pleasant than one year ago. At that time, the drive-tru windows were staffed by snotty "chip on my shoulder" teens who though they should be earning 15 bucks a hour. Now, the place I go to is staffed by Spanish speaking people, new to this country, who are extremely polite and happy. I really do not care what their legal status is in this country. They are doing a great job and they make me happy just to think about how nice they are and how well they do their jobs. I think that there are many US citizens that could learn from watching these hard workers

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Bilmes & Sue Boyle

Beware racist tirades like the one above (CHEAP TOMATOES) making the email rounds. There may be a scrap or two of truth in there, but most of it is almost certainly unsubstantiated drivel meant to resonate with some people's worst preconceptions.

I almost bit on the hook and started to write back a fury of arguments, but realized that a short, inciteful response such as yours is the only retort needed.

It's hard to believe a teacher wrote this, but maybe Tony is right after all. Which only makes me want to get in the classroom sooner, to straighten out any teacher(s) who would be so obtuse.

Scorereader--Again, I agree with you, but I want to add another observation.

As a retired educator, I speak from much experience when I say that any school that tolerated the student behaviors described in lunasatic's post would be a school that was run by very ineffective administrators. I have personally experienced how a bad administrator can virtually bring down a school within a few years simply because he or she does not enforce a consistently strong approach to discipline.

At my old school, we went from a hands-on, highly effective principal who knew everyone's name and who knew exactly what was going on, to a new principal who usually hid in his office, had no clue as to what was going on, and did not enforce disciplinary policies. We went from a rare student fist fight (perhaps 4 or 5 fights per year) while serving under the hands-on principal to a situation of multiple fist fights per day under the new guy.

I grew weary (and wary) of seeing students and teachers taken out on stretchers on a regular basis. Perhaps the icing on the cake was the day when the principal made one of his very rare appearances in the student cafeteria and was kicked in his privates by a young woman (notice that I did not say a young lady). What was her penalty? Nothing, nada, despite the fact that this attack was witnessed by scores of students in the cafeteria. As you might guess, discipline really went to hell after that incident.

And, as to incompetent teachers, I recall the year that several incompetents were slated for non-renewal of their contracts. The principal told the two vice-principals, "Just rehire everyone--I don't want any controversy". The two VPs offered to do all of the dirty work involved in the non-renewal of those two or three teachers, but the principal refused that offer and everyone was rehired--including one teacher who was so incompetent that his picture should be included next to the dictionary definition of the word "incompetent". And guess what? Since that was his tenure year, that ineffective principal set the stage for that incompetent teacher to linger for many years in the classroom, doing little while his colleagues worked hard. I knew about this situation because I was a close personal friend of one of the VPs who was as frustrated as the teachers were by this bad principal. In the space of about 4 years, we went from a faculty that would have walked through fire for the hands-on principal to a demoralized, disspirited group under the ineffective principal, and in the process, education suffered along with discipline.

So, while there are teachers with a poor work ethic, I can honestly state that they are a small minority of those in the field of education. And, the continuing presence of those few bad teachers, as well as the existence of many disciplinary problems in the schools, can be laid squarely at the feet of ineffective administrators who are afraid of parents and afraid of controversy.

quote:

Originally posted by Tedbear



As a retired educator, I speak from much experience when I say that any school that tolerated the student behaviors described in lunasatic's post would be a school that was run by very ineffective administrators.

Amen

quote:

Originally posted by Tedbear


a bad administrator can virtually bring down a school within a few years simply because he or she does not enforce a consistently strong approach to discipline.

my wife's school is a good example of this. The teachers struggle to keep control because the response to the student when thrown out of class due to misbehavior is the principal doing just about nothing. And the students returned to class with no change in behavior. Sometimes the teacher is blamed by the principal - to the student! It's to the point that the teachers don't send students to the office anymore. They have come up with other solutions.

Thankfully, most of the parents tend to support the teachers because of the nature of the school (a public charter school in the arts). The parents know that both the academic and arts teachers are only at that school because of how much they care about education. So, most of the time, parents are supportive. If it wasn't for that, I think the whole faculty would leave. - although, at least 50% of the faculty have obtained jobs elsewhere for next year. It's sad, because the school could be wonderful if the principal would simply support teachers' discipline efforts.

thanks for your insights Tedbear. you made a great point I had completely overlooked. Your wealth of experience glows bright.

Quote: "The teachers struggle to keep control because the response to the student when thrown out of class due to misbehavior is the principal doing just about nothing. And the students returned to class with no change in behavior. Sometimes the teacher is blamed by the principal - to the student! It's to the point that the teachers don't send students to the office anymore. They have come up with other solutions."
Hmmmm...It sounds like your wife's school is cursed with a clone of the ineffective clown who ran our school into the ground for several years. We were faced with students who were sent back to class with perhaps a worse attitude than when they left the room, due to the unsupportive comments made by the principal to the student, regarding the teacher. In a similar fashion to your wife's school, teachers began to hesitate to refer students to the main office for discipline because the situation frequently worsened, rather than improving. And, the principal actually began berating teachers for sending students down to see him for disciplinary action.

Excellence comes from the top. A principal or a CEO can inspire the staff to excellence or he/she can cause the dedicated of the profession to run for the hills. We experienced the latter, and when the school board began to offer very attractive incentives for early retirement, many of us took the bait. As the years went on under incompetent administrators, the inherent rewards of being educators had been virtually eradicated by politicians in the position of school administrators. And, while that is a very sad commentary on the state of education in far too many schools today, it is also reality in far too many instances.