White Lily Flour Same?

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DawnT
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2010/05/18 04:39:21 (permalink)

White Lily Flour Same?

I was talking with my mother-in-law this afternoon and she brought up biscuits. My spouse and and my MIL seriously know biscuits. They're from TN where this is an institution with gravy. She swears up and down that White Lily is no longer the soft wheat product that southerners have known over the years. Biscuits no longer raise like they used to since Smukers bought them out. The company swears otherwise and still claims they are a low protien flour. Just wondering what any of you have experienced in the kitchen. Has White Lily changed? I can't reproduce the texture my spouse remembers.
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    RodBangkok
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 05:24:10 (permalink)
    I remember and found this that may be of interest:

    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/530286


    Unlike King Arthur, they don't list the specifics on their web site, such as protein and ash percentages.  You might try KA.


    #2
    kaszeta
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 08:29:22 (permalink)
    I've noticed that my biscuits don't turn out like they used to, either.  It's hard up in this neck of the woods to get something similar to classic White Lily (~9% protein, bleached), although part of that is the fact that we're ground zero for King Arthur (on a good day I can see the King Arthur factory from my office window...)

    Interestingly, King Arthur changed as well, their pastry flour is now lower protein than it used to be (9.2 a few years ago vs 8 now). 
    #3
    Sundancer7
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 08:40:21 (permalink)
    DawnT

    I was talking with my mother-in-law this afternoon and she brought up biscuits. My spouse and and my MIL seriously know biscuits. They're from TN where this is an institution with gravy. She swears up and down that White Lily is no longer the soft wheat product that southerners have known over the years. Biscuits no longer raise like they used to since Smukers bought them out. The company swears otherwise and still claims they are a low protien flour. Just wondering what any of you have experienced in the kitchen. Has White Lily changed? I can't reproduce the texture my spouse remembers.

     
    White Lily was home officed in Knoxville.  They were bought out a few years ago and the company who bought them, closed them fired about 70+ workers and moved them some place else.  Many chefs, cooks and restaurants were disturbed by their closing.  Many believe as you that the product is not longer the same.
     
    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN

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    RodBangkok
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 08:42:30 (permalink)
    kaszeta
    Interestingly, King Arthur changed as well, their pastry flour is now lower protein than it used to be (9.2 a few years ago vs 8 now). 



    Hmm, their Round table seems to still be at 9.2, don't see any 8 percents listed as a matter of fact:

    http://www.kingarthurflou...onal-bakery-flour.html



    #5
    kaszeta
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 10:41:01 (permalink)
    Interesting.  I don't buy the big bags of Round Table, I've always bought their smaller 3lb  bags of "Unbleached Pastry Flour", which is 8% according to the label.  (Here's their info which matches my bag: http://www.kingarthurflou...hed-pastry-flour-3-lb)

    I'll ask the next time I'm over there.
    post edited by kaszeta - 2010/05/18 10:44:31
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    David_NYC
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 12:08:23 (permalink)
    White Lily flour - now milled in Toledo, Ohio and possibly one other location:
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-06-25/news/heather25_1_all-purpose-flour-bread-flour-spring-wheat

    After Smuckers bought International Multifoods, which already owned Pillsbury and Martha White, it was a foregone conclusion consolidation was going to take place. I can understand Smuckers wanting to keep details of the buyouts from consumers. Their packages of Martha White mixes currently say Martha White Foods, Inc., Jackson, TN. But to change the formulas of these products is dirty pool.

    Another news story:
    http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=476&yr=2009

    In truth, companies like White Lily and Martha White have been in play for many years. But it hurts when a manufacturer rather than an investing banking house buys them and changes the products.
    #7
    tcrouzer
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/05/18 12:41:22 (permalink)
    R.I.P. White Lily and also Three Rivers Cornbread Mix, the best there was, IMO.....sniff.....
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    DawnT
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/03 13:57:58 (permalink)
    I guess this thread is a moot point now. Winn Dixies in our area no longer carry White Lily. Maybe some do, but I haven't found one. The Publix chain hasn't for many years.  Just wondering if they are now limiting distribution to a core area and focusing on Pillsbury and Martha White brands .
    #9
    Foodbme
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/03 15:11:28 (permalink)
    Sounds like we need a Congressional investigation. Hell's bells they investigate everything else.

    Al Gore, (D-TN) said the declining quality of Tipper's Biscuits was a major factor in their split up.

    Having lived in TN, I can tell you that the quality of their biscuits is an important factor in their daily lives. Don't mess with TN Biscuits! 
    #10
    Pogo
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/04 09:41:06 (permalink)
    White Lily isn't the same product as when it was made in Knoxville, TN. It is still the best, but the biscuits arent as light as they used to be and the color is off a little bit.
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    DawnT
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/04 13:38:35 (permalink)
    Is it still on the shelves there?
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    Foodbme
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/04 14:08:09 (permalink)
    Pogo

    White Lily isn't the same product as when it was made in Knoxville, TN. It is still the best, but the biscuits arent as light as they used to be and the color is off a little bit.

    Au Contraire my dear Pogo.
    Pioneer Biscuit and Baking Mix out of San Antonio is the best I've found and I've tried quite a few of them. C.H. Guenther & Son, Inc., and the Pioneer Brand, proudly hold the position ... oldest continuously operated family-owned milling company in the United States.
    http://www.chguenther.com/consumerbrands/pioneer.aspx
     
    Besides, how can it still be the best if the biscuits aren't as light as they used to be and the color is off a little bit. ????
    post edited by Foodbme - 2010/06/05 01:20:45
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    offlady
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 00:19:04 (permalink)
    Is it safe to say that the White Lily sold in Knoxville is from soft wheat grown in Knoxville?  My mother--in-law lives there, and I might ask her to send me some.  As an alternative, I've been buying flour from Japan sold at our asian market, seems very similar to cake flour.
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    Foodbme
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 01:27:31 (permalink)
    offlady

    Is it safe to say that the White Lily sold in Knoxville is from soft wheat grown in Knoxville?  My mother--in-law lives there, and I might ask her to send me some.  As an alternative, I've been buying flour from Japan sold at our asian market, seems very similar to cake flour.

     
    I don't think the White Lily Wheat ever came from the Knoxville area. It was processed there but not grown there. Pretty hard to grow Wheat on the sides of the mountains around Ol' Rocky Top!
    What say you Sundancer?

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    DawnT
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 01:40:05 (permalink)
    My In-laws live near Nashville. From what I understand the Knoxville (Jackson) mill was closed down. I don't know about the one in SC. The original mill agreed to produce flour for Schmucker's, but for some reason that was closed down. Schmucker's now owns the major labels including Red Robin in Canada. I've noticed the sudden disappearance of the flour here and I'm wondering if it's just a local distribution thing or if they've pulled the plug on the brand. The brand and consistancy is meaningless now as the product is no longer what it was. While I'm no expert on biscuits, I certainly know my fried chicken and the breading wasn't the same with either Martha White or White Lily in recent years. Now it has a uniform flat look rather then the convoluted of years past. I've moved to Swan's Down to restore the texture similar to White Lily.
    My MIL is convinced that the flour is no longer the soft wheat it was and Martha White hasn't been the flour it once was for many years 
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    offlady
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 05:19:09 (permalink)
    No wonder, because the only thing I see growing around the smokey mountains is tobacco...
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    Sundancer7
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 08:43:27 (permalink)
    Foodbme

    offlady

    Is it safe to say that the White Lily sold in Knoxville is from soft wheat grown in Knoxville?  My mother--in-law lives there, and I might ask her to send me some.  As an alternative, I've been buying flour from Japan sold at our asian market, seems very similar to cake flour.

     
    I don't think the White Lily Wheat ever came from the Knoxville area. It was processed there but not grown there. Pretty hard to grow Wheat on the sides of the mountains around Ol' Rocky Top!
    What say you Sundancer?

     
    I cannot say that the wheat used in White Lily was grown in TN.  More than likely, it did not due to the volume used.  East TN does grow some wheat and as a matter of fact my grandfather grew many acres on his hillside farm located in the Cumberland Gap area.  I know that he had it processed for his use and his neighbors and did not sell to White Lily.
     
    I do know one thing and that their flour is no longer the same quality.  Incidentally, Knoxville is having a Biscuit festival this weekend.  I am taking Mamaw Smith and Iwanago in about a hour.  Fred Sauceman and Allen Benton will be there.   Many of you know one or both of them.
     
    http://knoxvillemarketsquare.com/biscuit/
     
    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
     
     

    post edited by Sundancer7 - 2010/06/05 12:43:22
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    Foodbme
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 14:51:41 (permalink)
    Sundancer7

    Foodbme

    offlady

    Is it safe to say that the White Lily sold in Knoxville is from soft wheat grown in Knoxville?  My mother--in-law lives there, and I might ask her to send me some.  As an alternative, I've been buying flour from Japan sold at our asian market, seems very similar to cake flour.

     
    I don't think the White Lily Wheat ever came from the Knoxville area. It was processed there but not grown there. Pretty hard to grow Wheat on the sides of the mountains around Ol' Rocky Top!
    What say you Sundancer?

     
    I cannot say that the wheat used in White Lily was grown in TN.  More than likely, it did not due to the volume used.  East TN does grow some wheat and as a matter of fact my grandfather grew many acres on his hillside farm located in the Cumberland Gap area.  I know that he had it processed for his use and his neighbors and did not sell to White Lily.
     
    I do know one thing and that their flour is no longer the same quality.  Incidentally, Knoxville is having a Biscuit festival this weekend.  I am taking Mamaw Smith and Iwanago in about a hour.  Fred Sauceman and Allen Benton will be there.   Many of you know one or both of them.
     
    http://knoxvillemarketsquare.com/biscuit/
     
    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
     
     


    The Biscuit Festival looks like GREAT fun! Wish I was there. Are you entering the Biscuit Baking Contest??
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    Sundancer7
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    Re:White Lily Flour Same? 2010/06/05 15:42:11 (permalink)
    Foodbme

    Sundancer7

    Foodbme

    offlady

    Is it safe to say that the White Lily sold in Knoxville is from soft wheat grown in Knoxville?  My mother--in-law lives there, and I might ask her to send me some.  As an alternative, I've been buying flour from Japan sold at our asian market, seems very similar to cake flour.

     
    I don't think the White Lily Wheat ever came from the Knoxville area. It was processed there but not grown there. Pretty hard to grow Wheat on the sides of the mountains around Ol' Rocky Top!
    What say you Sundancer?

     
    I cannot say that the wheat used in White Lily was grown in TN.  More than likely, it did not due to the volume used.  East TN does grow some wheat and as a matter of fact my grandfather grew many acres on his hillside farm located in the Cumberland Gap area.  I know that he had it processed for his use and his neighbors and did not sell to White Lily.
     
    I do know one thing and that their flour is no longer the same quality.  Incidentally, Knoxville is having a Biscuit festival this weekend.  I am taking Mamaw Smith and Iwanago in about a hour.  Fred Sauceman and Allen Benton will be there.   Many of you know one or both of them.
     
    http://knoxvillemarketsquare.com/biscuit/
     
    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
     
     


    The Biscuit Festival looks like GREAT fun! Wish I was there. Are you entering the Biscuit Baking Contest??

     
    I have never ever baked biscuits that I would consider entering a festival.  My biscuits are OK but they do not compete not will they ever will.  Thanks for asking.
     
    Al will add some pics today regarding some of the main event with Fred Sauceman (our own Fred) and Allen Benton who has Benton's hams where Al, Poverty Pete, Bushy, Janet, I wanago and myself has visited.  In many folks opinion, Benton's has's is the best in the USA.  You can debate that but he has many accoladetes from the Today show and many chef's in the USA.
     
    Al Will post some pics that showed Fred Sauceman and Allen Benton.  Both of them are Roadfood favorites.
     
    http://www.allbookstores.com/author/Fred_W_Sauceman.html
     
    https://bentonshams.com/order/index.php
     
    If any of you are ever in the Knoxville area. I would suggest you make a stop at Allen's ham's, bacon and other products.  I guarantee that Al, myself and monty others have enjoyed his ultra superior products.
     
    Paul E. Smith
    knoxville, TN
     
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