Who owns the "Coney Island" name?

Just curious if Coney Island name is trademarked or not? Not sure. Seems like it has come to be always associated with hot dogs. I'd like to use it on my hot dog cart but dont want to get in trouble. Can I call it Coney Island Hot Dogs or something like that. I don't know.

I guess the real question is, "Are they really Coney Island hot dogs on your cart"?

Cheers, John

Methinks Coney Island is just a name for an oceanfront neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY. I do know that all of the amusement parks had their own names, Astroland, Luna Park, etc.

Since Coney Island is not a private enterprise like Disney or Sony who have been known to sue to protect their name, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Where can one find your cart?

quote:

Originally posted by DeepMartini

Just curious if Coney Island name is trademarked or not? Not sure. Seems like it has come to be always associated with hot dogs. I'd like to use it on my hot dog cart but dont want to get in trouble. Can I call it Coney Island Hot Dogs or something like that. I don't know.

You can actually search to see if something is trademarked or not here: [url][http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=6svq1.1.1/url]..some places have actually trademarked the name 'Coney Island'..but its always with no 'exclusive rights claimed'...or some such legal drivel
lol...

As far as I'm concerned it belongs to our own Coney Island Lou!!!

Cheers, John

Gotta agree with seafarer John. The actual question is, are they really Coney Island Franks. I don't think the name "Coney Island" is trademarked. However too many people and Hot Dog outlets put all these toppings of their on creation then want to call it a "Coney Island Hot Dog", using the name which misleads the consumer on what an actual Coney Island frank is. I say if it's not a Nathans it's not Coney Island!!!

Ahhh, but unless I'm mistaken, around Central NY a coney is a mild, veal style hot dog, not a Nathans style dog....

NYers know a Nathans is the original and really the only true Coney Island Hot Dog. Starting in Coney Island back in 1871 by Charles Feltman. Sorry anything else is a imitation. They may taste good but they are infact imitations. And the Irony of it is most of these outlets who makes the so-called Coney Island Dogs make no kind of reference to the actual CI or Brooklyn what so ever other than merely using the name.

http://www.goldcoastdogs.net/history.html

quote:

Originally posted by signman

Methinks Coney Island is just a name for an oceanfront neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY. I do know that all of the amusement parks had their own names, Astroland, Luna Park, etc.

Since Coney Island is not a private enterprise like Disney or Sony who have been known to sue to protect their name, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Where can one find your cart?

In fact, the Coney Island hot dog comes from the long-gone Coney Island Amusment Park in Cincinnati, Ohio, not from the Brooklyn amusement park. A Greek immigrant called his Cincinnati-style chili-covered hot dogs Coney Islands

Charles Feltman sold the first HD on Coney Island in 1871. One of his employees by the name of Nathan Handwerker branched off and opened his now famous Nathans. I know about Cincy, with their version of a CI park and CI hot dog that opened from 1936-1947. But not sure if it had any afiliation with the CI in Brooklyn. If not than it's all a fraud in my book. Just can't help but to dispute the claim of what a true Coney Island Hot Dog is. And to me a the true CI hot dog comes from the original Coney Island of Brooklyn of the 1800s-present. It needs no sauce, nor chili. Just the flavorful beef frank itself. And that would be a Nathans.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/nathans.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by signman

Methinks Coney Island is just a name for an oceanfront neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY. I do know that all of the amusement parks had their own names, Astroland, Luna Park, etc.

Since Coney Island is not a private enterprise like Disney or Sony who have been known to sue to protect their name, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Where can one find your cart?

In fact, the Coney Island hot dog comes from the long-gone Coney Island Amusment Park in Cincinnati, Ohio, not from the Brooklyn amusement park. A Greek immigrant called his Cincinnati-style chili-covered hot dogs Coney Islands

The Coney Island restaurant here in Middletown has been serving 'Coney-style' dogs since 1924...it truly seems that a LOT of Greek immigrants that disembarked in NYC in the first part of the 20th Century set up shop with regular NY type dog carts..experimented with various types of chili sauce to make the bland NY dogs more to their European tastes...then moved on to other places like Middletown..Scranton...Cincy...Detroit, and opened up their own little lunch rooms..some of which they named 'Coney Island',as it was a quick referent to their NYC roots....someday some college student will come along and do a decent thesis on this....lol

Just to further muddy the hot dog water:

As previously stated, a Coney Island hot dog as served at Nathans has no chili on it. A Coney Island hot dog thruout most of the rest of the nation is served with a sauce - usually something chili-like.

Coney Island Lou has it just about right. Greek immigrants were the ones who first put chili sauce on the hot dog and called it a Coney Island or , more usual here in the Hudson Valley, a Texas Hot Wiener- and that probably happened shortly before 1920. It is my opinion that the chili sauce was added to disguise an inferior grade hot dog, rather than to just spice up the bland type of hot dog that works best with the chili sauce. I think a koshers style (garliky) hot dog with chili sauce is an awful thing - doing a disservice to both the hot dog and the chili sauce.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

Charles Feltman sold the first HD on Coney Island in 1871. One of his employees by the name of Nathan Handwerker branched off and opened his now famous Nathans. I know about Cincy, with their version of a CI park and CI hot dog that opened from 1936-1947. But not sure if it had any afiliation with the CI in Brooklyn. If not than it's all a fraud in my book. Just can't help but to dispute the claim of what a true Coney Island Hot Dog is. And to me a the true CI hot dog comes from the original Coney Island of Brooklyn of the 1800s-present. It needs no sauce, nor chili. Just the flavorful beef frank itself. And that would be a Nathans.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/nathans.htm

That's interesting, but you miss the point. A hot dog from Coney Island in Brooklyn is just a hot dog from Coney Island. It's an excellent hot dog. I've had them. But it is a hot dog. A Coney Island is a hot dog with a meat sauce on it. It originated at the amusement park of the same name in Cincinnati, and spread all over the midwest, mainly.

I must admit the first time I ever had a Coney Island I was puzzled. It was at a place called George's Coney Island on Congress Avenue in New Haven, Connecticut, and it was in the 1940s. Having been to Coney Island, and having eaten hot dogs at Nathan's, I wondered why they would call a hot dog with sauce all over it a Coney Island. It was obvious there was no connection. I asked the man behind the counter why they were called Coney Islands and he explained, in what I later learned was a heavy Greek accent, that they were named for the park in Cincinnati, where he'd worked for an uncle or cousin (I don't recall which) after coming to America from Greece. By the way, he'd never heard of the Coney Island in Brooklyn.

quote:

It was at a place called George's Coney Island on Congress Avenue in New Haven, Connecticut

Michael H.,

Is that the same place in Worcester, MA???
[url='http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=1288']http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=1288[/url]

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Rushmore Jr.

quote:

It was at a place called George's Coney Island on Congress Avenue in New Haven, Connecticut

Michael H.,

Is that the same place in Worcester, MA???
[url='http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=1288']http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=1288[/url]

Oh, I doubt it. The one in New Haven was a little hole-in-the-wall place that was only open for lunch. The last time I was in it was around 1960.

MH: You've got a chronology problem with the Cincinnati claim to have given the name to the Coney Island hot dog.

If Greeks brought the name of the product from Manhattan to Middletown , NY in 1924, and the Cincinnati amusement park dates from the 1930s , it would seem that Cincinnatti learned about Coney Island hot dogs from someone from the New York metro area. Your Greek counterman may well have learned about it from his Cincinnati uncle, but his uncle must have learned it in New York
on his way to Cincinnati.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

MH: You've got a chronology problem with the Cincinnati claim to have given the name to the Coney Island hot dog.

If Greeks brought the name of the product from Manhattan to Middletown , NY in 1924, and the Cincinnati amusement park dates from the 1930s , it would seem that Cincinnatti learned about Coney Island hot dogs from someone from the New York metro area. Your Greek counterman may well have learned about it from his Cincinnati uncle, but his uncle must have learned it in New York
on his way to Cincinnati.

Cheers, John

Well, that could be true. However, it seems not to fit well with the fact that Cincinnati's Coney Island dates to 1887.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

Charles Feltman sold the first HD on Coney Island in 1871. One of his employees by the name of Nathan Handwerker branched off and opened his now famous Nathans. I know about Cincy, with their version of a CI park and CI hot dog that opened from 1936-1947. But not sure if it had any afiliation with the CI in Brooklyn. If not than it's all a fraud in my book. Just can't help but to dispute the claim of what a true Coney Island Hot Dog is. And to me a the true CI hot dog comes from the original Coney Island of Brooklyn of the 1800s-present. It needs no sauce, nor chili. Just the flavorful beef frank itself. And that would be a Nathans.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/nathans.htm

That's interesting, but you miss the point. A hot dog from Coney Island in Brooklyn is just a hot dog from Coney Island. It's an excellent hot dog. I've had them. But it is a hot dog. A Coney Island is a hot dog with a meat sauce on it. It originated at the amusement park of the same name in Cincinnati, and spread all over the midwest, mainly.

I must admit the first time I ever had a Coney Island I was puzzled. It was at a place called George's Coney Island on Congress Avenue in New Haven, Connecticut, and it was in the 1940s. Having been to Coney Island, and having eaten hot dogs at Nathan's, I wondered why they would call a hot dog with sauce all over it a Coney Island. It was obvious there was no connection. I asked the man behind the counter why they were called Coney Islands and he explained, in what I later learned was a heavy Greek accent, that they were named for the park in Cincinnati, where he'd worked for an uncle or cousin (I don't recall which) after coming to America from Greece. By the way, he'd never heard of the Coney Island in Brooklyn.

Well according to my research, I just learned that the tangy, meaty recipe sauce called Coney Island Sauce was ORIGINALLY sold in the Coney Island not at Nathan's Famous or Feltmans(before Nathan's opened), but at the CI Amusement Park itself in Brooklyn.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art3149.asp

There's absoluteley no documentation in any of my web research that indicates that the Coney Island Hot Dog or the CIHD sauce started in CI theme park in Cincinatti. And the CI park in Cinny most have been a copycat attempt to mimic the real CI of Brooklyn since it's dates of operation indicates that they were only open from 1936-1947. The real CI of BKNY is not just a theme park, but an oceanfront neighborhood in the Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn that dates all the way back to the 1600s. So I really can't understand how that guy you ask behind the counter at George CI in N. Haven never heard of the the Coney Island in Brooklyn. If possible, post a clip that would indicate that this famous recipe started in CI in Cincy and the midwest. Here's another clip...

http://www.geocities.com/buddychai2/Brooklyn/ConeyHist.html

How about Detroit. Or better yet the entire state of Michigan. I found more Coney Island places in the Detroit MI metro area than Donut shops in RI, Pizza Joints in NY, Coffee Houses in Seattle and Pirogi Parlors in Pittsburgh combined!

Wanderingjew:

And all those CIs in Detroit and Michican needs to pay tribute to CI in Brooklyn where it started. The point is, how can anyone outside of NYC claim they invented the CI Hot Dog when the name itself comes from the neighborhood in Brooklyn(NOT CINCINATTI!!!). That's like saying the White House in Atlantic City, New Jersey invented the Philly Cheesesteak. Sure they make an excellent Cheesesteak very cmparable to Philly. But Philly is where the Sandwich was invented. That's why places outside of the city of brotherly love puts "Philly" in front of the sandwich name. Like I said Coney Island is a neighborhood, amusement park and a oceanfront in Brooklyn, that dates back to the 1600s. Any franchise or outlet that would use the name of CI for there dogs without any refernce to the actual neighborhood or theme park in Brooklyn is a huge disrespect in which they're just using the name to blow up there product. When certain restuarants outside of New England or Boston claim they make Boston clam chowder they attempt to do it in a manner in how it's done in Boston. Our when a pizza joint claims to have NY style pizza they make em with the thin crust and sell by the slice as NY joints do. The point is they attempt to duplicate it the way it's done in the city where it originated as a way to pay tribute to that city for a great creation. That's how I see it.

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

Charles Feltman sold the first HD on Coney Island in 1871. One of his employees by the name of Nathan Handwerker branched off and opened his now famous Nathans. I know about Cincy, with their version of a CI park and CI hot dog that opened from 1936-1947. But not sure if it had any afiliation with the CI in Brooklyn. If not than it's all a fraud in my book. Just can't help but to dispute the claim of what a true Coney Island Hot Dog is. And to me a the true CI hot dog comes from the original Coney Island of Brooklyn of the 1800s-present. It needs no sauce, nor chili. Just the flavorful beef frank itself. And that would be a Nathans.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/nathans.htm

That's interesting, but you miss the point. A hot dog from Coney Island in Brooklyn is just a hot dog from Coney Island. It's an excellent hot dog. I've had them. But it is a hot dog. A Coney Island is a hot dog with a meat sauce on it. It originated at the amusement park of the same name in Cincinnati, and spread all over the midwest, mainly.

I must admit the first time I ever had a Coney Island I was puzzled. It was at a place called George's Coney Island on Congress Avenue in New Haven, Connecticut, and it was in the 1940s. Having been to Coney Island, and having eaten hot dogs at Nathan's, I wondered why they would call a hot dog with sauce all over it a Coney Island. It was obvious there was no connection. I asked the man behind the counter why they were called Coney Islands and he explained, in what I later learned was a heavy Greek accent, that they were named for the park in Cincinnati, where he'd worked for an uncle or cousin (I don't recall which) after coming to America from Greece. By the way, he'd never heard of the Coney Island in Brooklyn.

Well according to my research, I just learned that the tangy, meaty recipe sauce called Coney Island Sauce was ORIGINALLY sold in the Coney Island not at Nathan's Famous or Feltmans(before Nathan's opened), but at the CI Amusement Park itself in Brooklyn.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art3149.asp

There's absoluteley no documentation in any of my web research that indicates that the Coney Island Hot Dog or the CIHD sauce started in CI theme park in Cincinatti. And the CI park in Cinny most have been a copycat attempt to mimic the real CI of Brooklyn since it's dates of operation indicates that they were only open from 1936-1947. The real CI of BKNY is not just a theme park, but an oceanfront neighborhood in the Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn that dates all the way back to the 1600s. So I really can't understand how that guy you ask behind the counter at George CI in N. Haven never heard of the the Coney Island in Brooklyn. If possible, post a clip that would indicate that this famous recipe started in CI in Cincy and the midwest. Here's another clip...

http://www.geocities.com/buddychai2/Brooklyn/ConeyHist.html

This is getting ridiculous. I must point out, however, that your rersearch seems a bit flawed. Youy see, the Cincinnati Coney island Amusement Park (not theme park) began operations in the 1800s. It was originally called the Coney Island of the West, after the Coney Island in Brooklyn.

As to your having difficulty understanding how the guy at the coney place in New Haven never heard of the Brooklyn Coney Island, let me explain. He never heard of Brooklyn.

I stand corrected on the timeline of CI Cincy

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/napha/faq.html#WORLD'S%20OLDEST%20OPERATING%20AMUSEMENT

However still looking for the documented proof that the CI Hot Dog and Sauce was in fact created in the CI of Cincy. So far I've only found one site(I've posted in previous comment) that indicates that the Tangy CI chile sauce was originally topped on franks in CI theme park in Brooklyn.

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

I stand corrected on the timeline of CI Cincy

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/napha/faq.html#WORLD'S%20OLDEST%20OPERATING%20AMUSEMENT

However still looking for the documented proof that the CI Hot Dog and Sauce was in fact created in the CI of Cincy. So far I've only found one site(I've posted in previous comment) that indicates that the Tangy CI chile sauce was originally topped on franks in CI theme park in Brooklyn.

Well, when you refer to the sauce as tangy you're not talkng about the stuff on coneys from the Cincinnati area. Cincinnati chili is about as tangy as water. It's really just a meat sauce with cinnamon and stuff in it.

I say, if that Cincinnati Coney Island sauce is as dull as MH says it is - TO HELL WITH IT !!

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

I say, if that Cincinnati Coney Island sauce is as dull as MH says it is - TO HELL WITH IT !!

Cheers, John

No, it's not bad. It's just not tangy, and it's certanly not chili.

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

Wanderingjew:

And all those CIs in Detroit and Michican needs to pay tribute to CI in Brooklyn where it started. The point is, how can anyone outside of NYC claim they invented the CI Hot Dog when the name itself comes from the neighborhood in Brooklyn(NOT CINCINATTI!!!). That's like saying the White House in Atlantic City, New Jersey invented the Philly Cheesesteak. Sure they make an excellent Cheesesteak very cmparable to Philly. But Philly is where the Sandwich was invented. That's why places outside of the city of brotherly love puts "Philly" in front of the sandwich name. Like I said Coney Island is a neighborhood, amusement park and a oceanfront in Brooklyn, that dates back to the 1600s. Any franchise or outlet that would use the name of CI for there dogs without any refernce to the actual neighborhood or theme park in Brooklyn is a huge disrespect in which they're just using the name to blow up there product. When certain restuarants outside of New England or Boston claim they make Boston clam chowder they attempt to do it in a manner in how it's done in Boston. Our when a pizza joint claims to have NY style pizza they make em with the thin crust and sell by the slice as NY joints do. The point is they attempt to duplicate it the way it's done in the city where it originated as a way to pay tribute to that city for a great creation. That's how I see it.

A Detroit style Coney could not be any different than an NY Style Nathan's or Sabrett Hot Dog. Both are delectable in their own right!

The Coney Island hot dog place in Worcester Mass is still there. The sign is I think as famous as the place, being an early example of a "moving" neon sign. It has been rebuilt, I am sure, but it looks the same as when I was a kid. I don't know what BRAND franks they serve.

quote:

Originally posted by bxfinest

Wanderingjew:

And all those CIs in Detroit and Michican needs to pay tribute to CI in Brooklyn where it started. The point is, how can anyone outside of NYC claim they invented the CI Hot Dog when the name itself comes from the neighborhood in Brooklyn(NOT CINCINATTI!!!). That's like saying the White House in Atlantic City, New Jersey invented the Philly Cheesesteak. Sure they make an excellent Cheesesteak very cmparable to Philly. But Philly is where the Sandwich was invented. That's why places outside of the city of brotherly love puts "Philly" in front of the sandwich name. Like I said Coney Island is a neighborhood, amusement park and a oceanfront in Brooklyn, that dates back to the 1600s. Any franchise or outlet that would use the name of CI for there dogs without any refernce to the actual neighborhood or theme park in Brooklyn is a huge disrespect in which they're just using the name to blow up there product. When certain restuarants outside of New England or Boston claim they make Boston clam chowder they attempt to do it in a manner in how it's done in Boston. Our when a pizza joint claims to have NY style pizza they make em with the thin crust and sell by the slice as NY joints do. The point is they attempt to duplicate it the way it's done in the city where it originated as a way to pay tribute to that city for a great creation. That's how I see it.

At this point in time the name "Coney Island" is just as much a discription of a type of restraunt as it is a type of hot dog. just like a "Coffee Shop" or a "Diner' indicate a certain type of eatery, so does a "Coney Island. In a sense
the name has evolved into a new meaing that goes beyond hot dogs, (even though all Coney Islands serve Coney's.)

Some people might think i'm an ***hole for saying this but...Coney Island is a very specific place...I have always lived in the NY area but have never been to Coney Island...I have eaten hot dogs at a place in Houston TX called James Coney Island several times and i always have assumed it was in reference to Coney Island the place...i could be wrong i don't know i have not spent enough time on the subject...but when i'm looking for a place to eat i might look for a coffee shop or diner i would never think to look for a Coney Island...i don't mean to start anything syrup i'm just very set in my ways.


JD

According to what I have found on the subject of the Coney Island:

In the 1890's, Charles Feltman, a German born immigrant, was selling pastry items from a small food cart in the Coney Island area of Brooklyn, New York. To make any money, he needed to sell a lot of food from a small space. His idea was to take a hard roll, steam it and wrap it around a German sausage. At that time, sports cartoonist Tad Dorgan caricatured German figures as Dachshund dogs and eventually named Feltman’s sandwich a "Hot Dog".

In 1913, one of Feldman's former employees, Nathan Handwerker, began selling his own hot dogs in competition with Feltman. His dogs were made with his wife's special spicy frankfurter recipe and he only charged a nickel for them, whereas Feltman charged a dime. It was tough for Nathan at first, but eventually his hot dogs caught on, and a "Nathan's Coney" is almost synonymous with a Coney Island hot dog today.

These original Coney Island hot dogs had only mustard and saurkraut or mustard and onions for dressing. What many people consider "Coney Island hot dogs" have mustard, onions, and "Coney Sauce", which is basically chili.

A Mr. George Todoroff in Michigan created the first chili sauce, but it was not intended as chili sauce only for hot dogs. In 1914, Mr. Todoroff took his recipe to Brooklyn and opened his restaurant at Coney Island. The hot dog was a big hit there and it didn’t take Todoroff long to capitalize on combining the hot dog and his chili sauce.

So, the original Coney Island hot dog with mustard and onions and sometimes saurkraut came from Coney Island. Period. End of discussion. They're still sold that way at many Coney Island restaurants and at "Nathan's" franchises across the country.

But the "Coney Island hot dog" recipe with "coney sauce" or chili, may very well have originated in Michigan with George Todoroff's chili.

Oh, in many areas of the USA this combination is known as a "Michigan Dog".