Why can't you use parmesan on fish dishes?

Though I haven't had it in a while, I put cheese on pasta w/ white clam sauce. Reading an orzo recipe on Epicurious, a reviewer stated, "Omitted parmesan because was serving it with grilled salmon". You aren't supposed to use it even if fish is on the plate? This sounds to me like overkill.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Midnight_Chef

Though I haven't had it in a while, I put cheese on pasta w/ white clam sauce. Reading an orzo recipe on Epicurious, a reviewer stated, "Omitted parmesan because was serving it with grilled salmon". You aren't supposed to use it even if fish is on the plate? This sounds to me like overkill.

Thanks

As Redtressed might say, Don't tell me I can't put cheese on my pasta.

You have been reading to much? This is about the same as Justin Wilson's reasoning behind "the proper" wine to serve. To summize, as Justin did: "Don't make no matter; 'long as it tastes good".

This is an interesting topic.....have been hearing Mario Batelli say time and again, Italians don't put Parmesan cheese on fish or seafood.....

One Saturday recently I was watching Jacques Pepin on PBS and he did a seafood dish (can't recall what it was) and he put Parmesan cheese on it and stated that he likes Parmesan cheese on his fish and seafood, regardless of what others say. He suggested that it be used in moderation so as not to mask the good taste of the fish/seafood. I believe anything Jacques Pepin says.

Another myth he put to rest for me a long time ago and that is garlic which has begun to sprout (with the little green middle beginning to emerge) is still good and should be used. I'd been hearing for years that it was too old to be used in cooking if it had begun to sprout.

Viva Pepin!

Donna

mmm, cheese on a nice peice of grilled salmon. Sounds good to me. . . maybe a light little dill sauce. . . I put parmesan in a shrimp boulette I make that I float in a crab bisque.

Cheese with seafood? Moderation, Moderation works very well.

Cheers, John

Never heard of that. Here's one of my favorite EI (Epicuriosly Incorrect) recipes to make in the summer:

PARMESAN FRIED FLOUNDER WITH TOMATO-BASIL BUTTER
(serves 4)

TOMATO BASIL BUTTER

1 Tbs. olive oil
1 1/ 2 cups peeled, seeded and chopped tomatoes (about 1 lb.)
2 tsp. minced garlic
1/ 2 cup sweet butter softened
2 tsp. grated lemon rind
1/ 2 tsp. salt
1/ 8 tsp. pepper
1/ 4 cup minced fresh basil

Heat the olive oil in a small skillet. Add the tomatoes and garlic and saute, stirring occasionally, for about 10 minutes or until the tomatoes form a puree that will mound. Let cool. Put the butter in a mixing bowl and beat in the tomatoes and remaining ingredients. Can be made up to 2 days ahead and refrigerated but best served at room temperature so that it will melt quickly over the fish.

FISH

1/ 2 cup flour
3/ 4 tsp. salt
1/ 2 tsp. pepper
3/ 4 cup dry bread crumbs
3/ 4 cup grated Parmesan cheese
2 eggs, beaten
1/ 4 cup butter
1/ 4 cup olive oil
1 pound flounder fillets

Combine flour, salt & pepper in shallow bowl or pie tin. Mix the crumbs and cheese in another bowl or pie tin. Have the eggs ready in a third shallow dish. Since the fish needs to cook in a single layer, use one very large skillet or 2 slightly smaller ones. Heat the butter and olive oil in the skillet. Dip the fish in the seasoned flour and shake off the excess. Then dip in the egg and let the excess drip off. Finally coat completely with the Parmesan crumbs. Saute the fillets over medium heat for 2 minutes on each side, pat off any excess oil with paper towels and serve at once topped with Tomato-Basil butter.

Notes: Fish fillets can be breaded and refrigerated for a couple of hours before cooking but bring to room temperature first. If you have any leftover Tomato-Basil Butter, it’s good on cooked green beans or grilled shrimp.

Source: Adapted from a recipe in the Frog/Commissary Cookbook

The Italians are very adamant about this subject. They will put cheese on your bread, on the table, on your pizza, on your pasta, on your steak, on your focaccia but the minute the fish course is presented......HUP!.....AWAY goes the cheese. And if you ask for cheese, they look at you and say, rolling their eyes back, "Senora, vee do not serve cheze vit da feesh." Ok, Luigi, whatever you say.
The French on the other hand would just love do drench your fish in sauce, with or without cheese, they really don't care. "Ah, Madame, you don't veally vant plain grilled sole........you must have zee sauce Nantua or zee sauce Mornay or zee sauce beurre blanc or zee chef's special Hollandaise." Ok, Pierre, whatever you say.
Me personally I happen to like a small amount of really aged Parmesiano Reggiano cheese on pasta dishes like linguine with clams, linguine with calamari and any pasta with shrimp. For fresh fish I like a squish of lemon and maybe just a LITTLE bit of tomato/basil beurre blanc.

lleechef, please explain for me what the hell is "parmesiano reggiano." It seems like every TV food chef these days can't say "parmesan cheese," they have to say "parmaisan reggiano."
Also, "extra virgin olive oil" instead of just "olive oil.. . . " but then, I don't understand why every TV chef has to sprinkle "extra virgin live oil" all over every dam thing they cook either!?
TV chefs can sure be a pretentious bunch, especially that Mario guy and that bozo Bobby Flay.

Thanks for the vent. . . now back to cheese on fish.

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

You have been reading to much? This is about the same as Justin Wilson's reasoning behind "the proper" wine to serve. To summize, as Justin did: "Don't make no matter; 'long as it tastes good".

God, I miss that guy. Has anyone made Justin Wilson's shows available on video or DVD? With the preponderance of these pompous crystal-sucking airheads on food tv, this food-addled soul thinks that now would be a good time to stage a Wilson revival.

-Yumbo

Parmesiano Reggiano is a hard, dry cheese made from skimmed or partially skimmed cow's milk. Parmesan cheeses are made in Argentina, the US and Australia but the most pristine Parmesan is made in Italy.
The US parmesans are usually aged for about 14 months, the Parmesiano Reggiano is aged for at least 2 years. Those cheeses labled "stravecchino" have been aged 3 years, those labled "stravecchiones" have aged 4 years. The words "Parmigiano Reggiano" stenciled on the rind mean that the cheese was produced in the areas of Bologna, Mantua, Modena or Parma (which is where the cheese got it's name).
I think that to discourage folks that are watching food shows to go out and buy that green Kraft can of "Parmesan cheese" the chefs changed their vocabulary to Parmesiano Reggiano to say, "Hey, if you're gonna cook my dish, put a DECENT cheese on it!" By the way, a true Parmesiano Reggiano is far more expensive than it's cousins: pecorino Romano (made with sheep's milk), Caprino Romano (made with goat's milk) or vacchino Romano (made with cow's milk).

As far as olive oil goes, there is quite a difference between extra virgin olive oil, olive oil, light olive oil and some of the others. Us chefs never cook with EVOO, it's for a last minute drizzle on the fresh mozzarella or the grilled eggplant or the panini. I do use a lot of regular olive oil in cooking.....I even use it for omelettes as I do not want them to brown and even clarified butter browns just a little. The lesser quality olive oils as "Light" or "Extra Light" I believe were created for American palattes as I have never found them in Italy. They are blended with other oils to make them, well, "less olive" tasting. Sheesh, just buy corn oil!

Absolutely.... nothing snobbish or pretentious about touting the right tool for the job. Sure you *can* cook in EVOO but its not really necessary. Also its health benefits are practically wiped away if you cook with it.

As for the cheese with fish thing ... yes in moderation its fine. Try it without also though. I too like a litle parmesan with clam sauce on pasta and I don't care if that's going to give the waiter the shudders Also think of some of the homely fish dishes like fish pie in all its variations that are improved with some cheese in the sauce or topping.

Is it any different than saying no tomatoes in Texas red? Eat what you like, but don't completely dismiss tradition.

My mother--italian--who used really good quality cheese.freshly grated--or shaved--never used it on fish for one reason--we ate fresh fish---grampa was a fisherman par excellance--and the aged cheese would almost always overpower the flavor of the fish---we did however use grated cheese sparingly on seafood pastas. I tend to agree with her--very few fresh fishes will stand up to the powerful flavor of a great italian grating cheese, but then, Mom was always right when it came to food--being the 2nd greatest cook in history---(Right after Noni!! I know that i cant imagine fresh salmao with Reggiano on it---it would be totally overwhelmed---now mixed in with canned salmon to make croquettes!--thats a different story!

quote:

Author Topic
Midnight_Chef
Junior Burger



13 Posts
Posted - 05/04/2005 : 20:08:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though I haven't had it in a while, I put cheese on pasta w/ white clam sauce. Reading an orzo recipe on Epicurious, a reviewer stated, "Omitted parmesan because was serving it with grilled salmon". You aren't supposed to use it even if fish is on the plate? This sounds to me like overkill.

Thanks

Michael Hoffman
Double Chili Cheeseburger



2468 Posts
Posted - 05/04/2005 : 20:13:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by Midnight_Chef

Though I haven't had it in a while, I put cheese on pasta w/ white clam sauce. Reading an orzo recipe on Epicurious, a reviewer stated, "Omitted parmesan because was serving it with grilled salmon". You aren't supposed to use it even if fish is on the plate? This sounds to me like overkill.

Thanks


As Redtressed might say, Don't tell me I can't put cheese on my pasta.

Damn tootin'


I grew up in a predominately Italian neighborhood, and I can say I was allowed in all their homes, even though I put a nice amount of reggiano and locatelli on my white clam sauce and various shrimp fare. The only time I have had it with a fish fillet of some type, however, is a cod fillet stuffed with breadcrumbs, crab, shrimp, spinach, spices, butter and some reggiano, and it was pretty darned tasty.

quote:

Originally posted by redtressed

quote:

Damn tootin'


I grew up in a predominately Italian neighborhood, and I can say I was allowed in all their homes, even though I put a nice amount of reggiano and locatelli on my white clam sauce and various shrimp fare. The only time I have had it with a fish fillet of some type, however, is a cod fillet stuffed with breadcrumbs, crab, shrimp, spinach, spices, butter and some reggiano, and it was pretty darned tasty.

There's no such thing as an Italian neighborhood in West Virginia. If they live in the Mountain State they're West Virginians, and they've lost that Italian connection. Obviously!

quote:

Michael Hoffman Posted - 05/05/2005 : 18:40:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by redtressed


quote:





Damn tootin'


I grew up in a predominately Italian neighborhood, and I can say I was allowed in all their homes, even though I put a nice amount of reggiano and locatelli on my white clam sauce and various shrimp fare. The only time I have had it with a fish fillet of some type, however, is a cod fillet stuffed with breadcrumbs, crab, shrimp, spinach, spices, butter and some reggiano, and it was pretty darned tasty.


There's no such thing as an Italian neighborhood in West Virginia. If they live in the Mountain State they're West Virginians, and they've lost that Italian connection. Obviously!

As my dear departed neighbor, Mrs . Angotti would say to you......

"Speak to the hand, Bubba"

Your dear departed Mrs. Angotti was probably Mrs. Angottaholler. Italians don't speak Bubba.

"Us" (we) chefs who cook mediterranean and middle eastern food do indeed use extra virgin olive oil for cooking, not just for the flourish. I've used some wonderful Turkish and Algerian extra virgin olive oils for frying as well as finishing. It ain't all about Italian and French food. Except on this thread, so I guess I'm out of line! Sorry, Zataar

Cause the parmesan around here is yucky?

The Lady

Glad I never heard of this, because my favorite fish recipe in the world is my oven baked cod, lightly coated in buttered bread crumbs, and finished with a parmesan wine sauce.It is to die for.

Good topic.
I think the idea behind not using grated reggiano on fish
has been to not mask the delicate flavor of the offering.
I truly enjoy making a white clam sauce or shrimp, scallops,
smothered in evoo and butter with lots of smashed garlic over
linguine. I always grate a small amount of reggiano over the
pasta and sauce.
Now I must admit you must use caution and common sense particularly
if someone has spotted the food police in the area.
It helps to close the blinds and drapes, lock the doors, shut
the windows and turn the volume up on the music.
And a particular word of caution if you are drinking merlot with
white clam sauce instead of sauvignon blanc, you might be in really
deep stuff from the culinary rule keepers.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by redtressed

quote:

There's no such thing as an Italian neighborhood in West Virginia. If they live in the Mountain State they're West Virginians, and they've lost that Italian connection. Obviously!

Huh?
Apparently you've never been to Fairmont or Clarkburg.

quote:

Originally posted by lleechef

Parmesiano Reggiano is a hard, dry cheese made from skimmed or partially skimmed cow's milk. Parmesan cheeses are made in Argentina, the US and Australia but the most pristine Parmesan is made in Italy.
The US parmesans are usually aged for about 14 months, the Parmesiano Reggiano is aged for at least 2 years. Those cheeses labled "stravecchino" have been aged 3 years, those labled "stravecchiones" have aged 4 years. The words "Parmigiano Reggiano" stenciled on the rind mean that the cheese was produced in the areas of Bologna, Mantua, Modena or Parma (which is where the cheese got it's name).
I think that to discourage folks that are watching food shows to go out and buy that green Kraft can of "Parmesan cheese" the chefs changed their vocabulary to Parmesiano Reggiano to say, "Hey, if you're gonna cook my dish, put a DECENT cheese on it!" By the way, a true Parmesiano Reggiano is far more expensive than it's cousins: pecorino Romano (made with sheep's milk), Caprino Romano (made with goat's milk) or vacchino Romano (made with cow's milk).

As far as olive oil goes, there is quite a difference between extra virgin olive oil, olive oil, light olive oil and some of the others. Us chefs never cook with EVOO, it's for a last minute drizzle on the fresh mozzarella or the grilled eggplant or the panini. I do use a lot of regular olive oil in cooking.....I even use it for omelettes as I do not want them to brown and even clarified butter browns just a little. The lesser quality olive oils as "Light" or "Extra Light" I believe were created for American palattes as I have never found them in Italy. They are blended with other oils to make them, well, "less olive" tasting. Sheesh, just buy corn oil!

Excellent post Illchef!
Thanks for the very nice synopsis.

You mean I've been wrong in putting parmesan on my cioppino all these years? I'm sorry-----I will repent!

quote:

Originally posted by SouthHillbilly

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by redtressed

quote:

There's no such thing as an Italian neighborhood in West Virginia. If they live in the Mountain State they're West Virginians, and they've lost that Italian connection. Obviously!

Huh?
Apparently you've never been to Fairmont or Clarkburg.

I've been to Fairmont and Clarksburg.