green sauces and salsas+chile verde

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1bbqboy
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2003/05/07 13:50:13 (permalink)

green sauces and salsas+chile verde

how far does the green belt extend? I never even dreamed of such
wonderful tastes until I lived in Arizona. Now that I live in southern Oregon
I have a wide variety of salsas at my fingers (and Chips), when we hit our favorite mexican haunts.
We have a fairly significant hispanic population here and I wondered what it's like in your part of the country. I've found if you ask the proprietor, they usually make sauces that aren't normally served to "gringos". At Si Casa Flores, here in the rogue valley you can end up with 5 different salsas, but if you don't ask, you'll get just 2. The green,Very hot), which seems to be tomatillos and jalapenos, is my favorite and that's why I'm putting the ? out there. Do you have green sauces, chile verde, and green salsas? Maybe I should ask how far the tomatilllo belt extends?
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    ocdreamr
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 14:25:05 (permalink)
    Until I sarted to visit my sister in Texas I didn't know there could be more than 1 type of salsa on the table. You still can't find more than 1 type here in B'more (sigh). I remmember asking at one local place (their house salsa was very mild) for something a little hotter. The waitress asked what I meant hotter, theirs was real hot she said, she offered to bring me tobasco sauce to add to what they had!!
    #2
    Jennifer_4
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 14:47:16 (permalink)
    Here in the verdant San Joaquin Valley of California, we have a huge Mexican population, therefore, a plethora of places that have "salsa bars".. between 5 and 10 different kinds of salsa...and last week at work, we had 2 separate salsa contests....so salsa is a way of life here.. I love the green stuff myself.. the flavor is awesome.. but I must guiltily admit to buying La Victoria Salsa Suprema in a jar..I just can't make it myself.
    #3
    1bbqboy
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 14:48:59 (permalink)
    I feel your pain! we get a red sauce, a salsa cruda, a hotter red sauce, a green sauce, and a coarse sort of green salsa cruda. Do you have chile verde back there? Pork cooked long and slow in a fantastic green sauce, usually served over or beside rice. W/ flour tortillas to wrap it up in, I must add. now that I think about it, I didn't grow up with flour tortillas either. Maybe the 2 enjoy a symbiotic relationship.
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    kland01s
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 14:52:51 (permalink)
    I have found the same experience here in the far western edge of the Chicago suburbs, many Mexican owned places have a seperate salsa that they serve if asked for something hotter, but we have a fairly long established Mexican population (well, I should say Hispanic because we have a good mix of the Americas)and the population expects more than Taco Bell or Pepe's. Each place makes their salsa according to the region they are from, some more smoky tasting while some are rich in cilantro and garlic. I'm a frequent traveler to SantaFe, NM and am really spoiled by the flavors there where the chile is locally grown.
    #5
    Jennifer_4
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 15:00:42 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by bill voss

    I feel your pain! we get a red sauce, a salsa cruda, a hotter red sauce, a green sauce, and a coarse sort of green salsa cruda. Do you have chile verde back there? Pork cooked long and slow in a fantastic green sauce, usually served over or beside rice. W/ flour tortillas to wrap it up in, I must add. now that I think about it, I didn't grow up with flour tortillas either. Maybe the 2 enjoy a symbiotic relationship.


    Dunno who you were referring to, but I'll put in my two cents and finally make cheeseburger at the same time! Chile verde here is as common as beef stew (and twice as good).. Our fave is chile verde kitchen sink nachos from Mario's. Chile verde, salsa, cheese, sour cream, special hot sauce all on a large helping of fresh made tortilla chips..YUM! As far as tortillas go, the Mexicans (rather than Hispanic which encompasses it all, we are primarily a Mexican population) prefer corn tortillas with their meals, whereas us Gringos like flour.. I buy them by the 30 pack and we eat them with everything we can possibly wrap up in them, from peanut butter to bbq beef.
    #6
    1bbqboy
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 15:33:21 (permalink)
    I'm honored to be your cheeseburger, W/ everything, I hope. I was responding to ocdreamr-hadn't expected such a response, but I have to say after living in KC, Phoenix, and now southern oregon, I'm so much more aware of differences in mexican and hispanic cooking
    as it relates to immigration patterns. When I was growing up in KC I thought there was one kind of mexican food. Now I realize it's because the population there all came from one mexican state. Your neck of the woods has GREAT south of the border food, by the way. I just feel bad for all the lost souls stuck in TacoBellHell, and wish they could experience the wide variety and tastes of mexican(and Hispanic) cuisine. We have a place here that's a mixture of guatamalan and mexican cooking, for instance. I think the flour vs. corn thing is more significant than I ever realized also.
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    ocdreamr
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 16:43:07 (permalink)
    Baltimore is starting to get a larger Hispanic population, therefore if you are willing to hunt you can find some goodies. I do know of 2 places that offer Chili verde made with pork. It's funny when I talk to some of my friends & mention eating something Mexican made with pork, they frequently express surprise that pork would be used! I quickly educate them. I just learned that there is a tortillaria (SP?) in town in the Hispanic area above Fells Point. I gotta get there soon. The word is that their cormeal tortillas are to die for. When you realise that most people in Maryland consider Chi Chi's the ultimate Mexican eatery you know what I'm up against.
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    1bbqboy
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/07 16:53:22 (permalink)
    report back! my sister lives in Va. and would love to know of authentic places to go. Going for mexican food is one of the first things she does when she comes to oregon
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    Richard Brooks Alba
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/27 16:25:16 (permalink)
    Folks,

    I remember from my youth the Mexican restaurant 'gringo' shuffle: "Is green hotter than red - or milder? I forget." And that question STILL seems to get posed far too often in a place that should fundamentally understand that it all depends on the ingredients. If you don't know your chiles (and even if you do - the naming conventions have gotten pretty sloppy because of lapses of attention, memory, mental discipline, whatever...), you have to sample. "What if it's too hot?" Always sample as if it will be. Those of us who have been eating this stuff since infancy still sample [unless we really already know] before diving in. I long ago gave up trying to get people to just taste, rather tha play '20 Questions' to determine whether their tastebuds might be at risk for permanent damage. I now encourage those folks to eat something besides Mexican, lest a stray pepper injure their digestive tract.

    Even within my own family, there's a tremendous breadth of variation in how we prepare our salsas - my mom cooked all her salsas, my sister does it all in a blender, and I like to blacken my chiles [fresh serranos, typically] and tomatoes before I chop up my salsa fresca. We all like tomatillos, but almost never make salsa featuring them - consequently, our family gatherings can feature 100% red salsas. (Unless I make my yellow salsa [yellow tomatoes, pineapple and/or mango, serranos, lime juice, easy on the cilantro] for some nice grilled fish.)
    Buena suerte,
    Richard
    Berkeley/SF, CA

    P.S. The usage of "Hispanic" in this forum (and elsewhere in the universe) warrants some attention here. Except in reference to things or people from Spain - or of, or under, Spanish influence - "Hispanic" isn't properly used to describe all peoples from - or with origins in - Latin America. Many, but not all, speak [or come from traditions of speaking] Spanish. The preferred term for this group, at least in the communities that I've encountered in my limited travels, is "Latino." The term is used for broad-community references, not for narrow-community reference. In the same way that "European cuisine" would lump 'Wiener Schnitzel' with 'bangers & mash,' "Latino cuisine" would lump 'tacos de pescado' with a 'Cuban sandwich.' For the purpose of this forum, 'Mexican' (and other nationalist references) is exactly what's called for. Where things get especially confusing - and why "Hispanic" muddies the water - is that there are foods mentioned here that are pre-Hispanic (or 'pre-Columbian,' if you prefer), like corn tortillas. (Other pre-Hispanic offerings would include tomatoes & chocolate.) Many folks that you might find in California & elsewhere in the Americas today were never vanquished by the Spanish - only recently, in the time of agricultural collapse in their communities of origin, have they even learned a little Spanish [& more recently, English] to get by economically. Latinos understand & [mostly] accept "Latino" - Latinos understand & [often] resent "Hispanic." While not exactly derogatory, it does push our buttons. Think how you would feel if you were called 'English' for the fact that you spoke English, rather than be called 'American.' In some places, 'Hispanic' is used as code for Latinos who have 'pure' European/Spanish blood - so if you think you can tell them apart by looking, they are most definitely NOT 'Hispanic'....
    #10
    Jennifer_4
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/27 17:29:45 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Richard Brooks Alba

    Folks,

    I remember from my youth the Mexican restaurant 'gringo' shuffle: "Is green hotter than red - or milder? I forget." And that question STILL seems to get posed far too often in a place that should fundamentally understand that it all depends on the ingredients. If you don't know your chiles (and even if you do - the naming conventions have gotten pretty sloppy because of lapses of attention, memory, mental discipline, whatever...), you have to sample. "What if it's too hot?" Always sample as if it will be. Those of us who have been eating this stuff since infancy still sample [unless we really already know] before diving in. I long ago gave up trying to get people to just taste, rather tha play '20 Questions' to determine whether their tastebuds might be at risk for permanent damage. I now encourage those folks to eat something besides Mexican, lest a stray pepper injure their digestive tract.

    Even within my own family, there's a tremendous breadth of variation in how we prepare our salsas - my mom cooked all her salsas, my sister does it all in a blender, and I like to blacken my chiles [fresh serranos, typically] and tomatoes before I chop up my salsa fresca. We all like tomatillos, but almost never make salsa featuring them - consequently, our family gatherings can feature 100% red salsas. (Unless I make my yellow salsa [yellow tomatoes, pineapple and/or mango, serranos, lime juice, easy on the cilantro] for some nice grilled fish.)
    Buena suerte,
    Richard
    Berkeley/SF, CA

    P.S. The usage of "Hispanic" in this forum (and elsewhere in the universe) warrants some attention here. Except in reference to things or people from Spain - or of, or under, Spanish influence - "Hispanic" isn't properly used to describe all peoples from - or with origins in - Latin America. Many, but not all, speak [or come from traditions of speaking] Spanish. The preferred term for this group, at least in the communities that I've encountered in my limited travels, is "Latino." The term is used for broad-community references, not for narrow-community reference. In the same way that "European cuisine" would lump 'Wiener Schnitzel' with 'bangers & mash,' "Latino cuisine" would lump 'tacos de pescado' with a 'Cuban sandwich.' For the purpose of this forum, 'Mexican' (and other nationalist references) is exactly what's called for. Where things get especially confusing - and why "Hispanic" muddies the water - is that there are foods mentioned here that are pre-Hispanic (or 'pre-Columbian,' if you prefer), like corn tortillas. (Other pre-Hispanic offerings would include tomatoes & chocolate.) Many folks that you might find in California & elsewhere in the Americas today were never vanquished by the Spanish - only recently, in the time of agricultural collapse in their communities of origin, have they even learned a little Spanish [& more recently, English] to get by economically. Latinos understand & [mostly] accept "Latino" - Latinos understand & [often] resent "Hispanic." While not exactly derogatory, it does push our buttons. Think how you would feel if you were called 'English' for the fact that you spoke English, rather than be called 'American.' In some places, 'Hispanic' is used as code for Latinos who have 'pure' European/Spanish blood - so if you think you can tell them apart by looking, they are most definitely NOT 'Hispanic'....


    I find that rather amusing because the Mexican political groups here in Cali were the ones to demand the use of the term "Hispanic", and only the barrio dwellers were using "Latino" at one time..dunno how it is up north where you are Richard, but that's the climate here in the central valley.
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    Richard Brooks Alba
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/05/27 18:52:08 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jennifer_4

    quote:
    Originally posted by Richard Brooks Alba

    Folks,

    I remember from my youth the Mexican restaurant 'gringo' shuffle: "Is green hotter than red - or milder? I forget." And that question STILL seems to get posed far too often in a place that should fundamentally understand that it all depends on the ingredients. If you don't know your chiles (and even if you do - the naming conventions have gotten pretty sloppy because of lapses of attention, memory, mental discipline, whatever...), you have to sample. "What if it's too hot?" Always sample as if it will be. Those of us who have been eating this stuff since infancy still sample [unless we really already know] before diving in. I long ago gave up trying to get people to just taste, rather tha play '20 Questions' to determine whether their tastebuds might be at risk for permanent damage. I now encourage those folks to eat something besides Mexican, lest a stray pepper injure their digestive tract.

    Even within my own family, there's a tremendous breadth of variation in how we prepare our salsas - my mom cooked all her salsas, my sister does it all in a blender, and I like to blacken my chiles [fresh serranos, typically] and tomatoes before I chop up my salsa fresca. We all like tomatillos, but almost never make salsa featuring them - consequently, our family gatherings can feature 100% red salsas. (Unless I make my yellow salsa [yellow tomatoes, pineapple and/or mango, serranos, lime juice, easy on the cilantro] for some nice grilled fish.)
    Buena suerte,
    Richard
    Berkeley/SF, CA

    P.S. The usage of "Hispanic" in this forum (and elsewhere in the universe) warrants some attention here. Except in reference to things or people from Spain - or of, or under, Spanish influence - "Hispanic" isn't properly used to describe all peoples from - or with origins in - Latin America. Many, but not all, speak [or come from traditions of speaking] Spanish. The preferred term for this group, at least in the communities that I've encountered in my limited travels, is "Latino." The term is used for broad-community references, not for narrow-community reference. In the same way that "European cuisine" would lump 'Wiener Schnitzel' with 'bangers & mash,' "Latino cuisine" would lump 'tacos de pescado' with a 'Cuban sandwich.' For the purpose of this forum, 'Mexican' (and other nationalist references) is exactly what's called for. Where things get especially confusing - and why "Hispanic" muddies the water - is that there are foods mentioned here that are pre-Hispanic (or 'pre-Columbian,' if you prefer), like corn tortillas. (Other pre-Hispanic offerings would include tomatoes & chocolate.) Many folks that you might find in California & elsewhere in the Americas today were never vanquished by the Spanish - only recently, in the time of agricultural collapse in their communities of origin, have they even learned a little Spanish [& more recently, English] to get by economically. Latinos understand & [mostly] accept "Latino" - Latinos understand & [often] resent "Hispanic." While not exactly derogatory, it does push our buttons. Think how you would feel if you were called 'English' for the fact that you spoke English, rather than be called 'American.' In some places, 'Hispanic' is used as code for Latinos who have 'pure' European/Spanish blood - so if you think you can tell them apart by looking, they are most definitely NOT 'Hispanic'....


    I find that rather amusing because the Mexican political groups here in Cali were the ones to demand the use of the term "Hispanic", and only the barrio dwellers were using "Latino" at one time..dunno how it is up north where you are Richard, but that's the climate here in the central valley.


    Neighbor Jen,

    The valley seems to be a real piece of work - I'd guess that the preference out there for "Hispanic" has to do with political ideology more than anything else. Other than the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce (& the US Census bureau), I can't think of any groups on the coast, or anywhere else in California, that use "Hispanic." It would certainly be in keeping with maintaining some sort of superiority/supremacy - like making themselves into bluebloods (or "coconuts" as we might have said in my youth).
    Ever vigilant,
    Richard
    Berkeley/SF, CA
    #12
    jdg68
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/06/09 00:19:41 (permalink)
    Tomatillos are quite easy to grow and often seed themselves from the previous year. I've had decent success making cooked sauces from tomatillos and green chiles (usually serranos) though the store-bought stuff is pretty good.
    #13
    ocdreamr
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/05 09:17:12 (permalink)
    First let me say that in my part of the country you can tell when spring comes by the frogs that sing in the early evening, they are known locally as "spring peepers"

    On this past Sunday I went to a new Mexican restaurant near me, my second visit. While reading the menu I saw they had Chile Verde listed as a house special. It was listed as chunks of pork w/chile verde (peepers & tomatoes). All I could do was laugh, I had visions of all the liitle green frogs it took to make that verde!

    #14
    Texicana
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/05 09:35:54 (permalink)
    Yay, I'm cheesy now! jdg68, I am going to try to grow my own tomatillos, thanks!
    #15
    Cosmos
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/05 11:44:26 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by bill voss

    Do you have chile verde back there? Pork cooked long and slow in a fantastic green sauce, usually served over or beside rice. W/ flour tortillas to wrap it up in.

    We recently had a Mexican restaurant open in Cortland N.Y. that is not half bad, having lived in Chicago I have a pretty base to compare to. One thing they do very well is the chile verde, I agree its a great dish.

    I can also finally get tomatillas at the grocery store to make my own salsa verde.
    #16
    MikeS.
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/09 03:59:41 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by bill voss

    report back! my sister lives in Va. and would love to know of authentic places to go. Going for mexican food is one of the first things she does when she comes to oregon


    Bill, I really like this place. It is owned by Mexicans for Mexicans. It would help if she/they spoke some spanish. This in not your normal gringo-fied mexican restaraunt. I don't know if they even serve beans and rice.

    Taqueria Tres Reyes #2. It is at 5403 Kenilworth Ave. I don't know which city this is, they all sorta run together here. It is in Prince George's County Md. though.

    MikeS.
    #17
    MikeS.
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/09 04:10:24 (permalink)
    Not being able to get the proper ingredients year round for fresh salsa (red) here in WVa I have come to rely on Chi-Chi's medium bought from Costco in a big jug. Not bad for a commercial salsa. BUT, this last week I found a Costco Deli item of fresh salsa that is really good. Unfortunately I can't remember the name right now. I'll to remember and post it tomorrow night.

    Anyways, this commercial product is sold by the quart in the deli cold case area of our local Costco and it contains lots of tomato chunks, chopped fresh garlic, cilantro, jalapenos, fresh onion and I don't know what all else. A really good salsa, like I would make for us at home. It has a nice bite to it too.

    Got to get the name for you guys...

    Mike

    And the name is: Senor Felix's Pico de Gallo Salsa
    #18
    MikeS.
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/09 04:13:05 (permalink)
    I have always preferred red salsas. I like mine chunky and basic. Tomatoes, jalapenos, chopped onion, minced garlic, some cilantro and a couple big squeezes of lime or lemon, prefer lime.

    Tha hardest part about leaving Calif 5 years ago has been the dearth of Mexican food.

    MikeS.
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    EdSails
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/09 13:22:45 (permalink)
    I was a big red sauce lover until about 6 months ago. My favorite Mexican restaurant here has a killer green sauce and now I'm a convert. The point is well taken--------who knows (or cares) which is hotter. I like the combination of flavors in the green sauce. I know what I'm having for lunch today!
    #20
    chilidawgguy
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/08/14 14:08:14 (permalink)
    Originally posted by bill voss

    report back! my sister lives in Va. and would love to know of authentic places to go. Going for mexican food is one of the first things she does when she comes to oregon[/El Ranchero on Wilson Blvd. in the Balston section of Arlington consistantly wins the 'Best Mexican' award in the Washingtonian magazine. Their food is fresh and they use a variety of sauces and salsas. My favorite is anything with the salsa verde on it. Ole'! quote]
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    Kristi S.
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/02 16:59:44 (permalink)
    There is a co-worker of mine whose wife makes the mostincredible salsa. (They're both of Dominican heritage)

    One Christmas they invited me to a soiree at their pad, and among the many amazing munchies (and alcohol thingies) laid out on the table were chips and this great salsa - homemade, with care, and unlike anything you can get in a jar in the store.

    As a parting gift, the Mrs handed me a mason-jar filled with the salsa (apparently they have several backups). Now, for two years, I've been trying to get my pal to get the recipe from his wife. I'm still trying! But he keeps 'forgetting'. If I nag really well, at best I'll receive a jar for the holidays, and I guess I will deconstruct the salsa to get the ingredients - and of course, I will share the bootlegged recipe with you.

    I think what was a hallmark of this salsa was that she uses cracked black peppercorn in place of jalapenos. This still results in a very hot salsa, the way it should be.

    Wish me luck in begging/borrowing/stealing the recipe!
    #22
    dendan
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/02 17:08:05 (permalink)
    Kristi - we have the margaritas ready...get the recipe...
    #23
    rbpalmer
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/02 17:28:52 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by chilidawgguy

    Originally posted by bill voss

    report back! my sister lives in Va. and would love to know of authentic places to go. Going for mexican food is one of the first things she does when she comes to oregon[/El Ranchero on Wilson Blvd. in the Balston section of Arlington consistantly wins the 'Best Mexican' award in the Washingtonian magazine. Their food is fresh and they use a variety of sauces and salsas. My favorite is anything with the salsa verde on it. Ole'! quote]


    Three other places for good Mexican food in the Northern Va./D.C. area: Rio Grande Cafe, which has a couple of Va. locations, Mixtec in D.C. (try the "tortas," or Mexican hoagies) and Andale in D.C. All inexpensive and very good.
    #24
    Kristi S.
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/07 09:25:15 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by dendan

    Kristi - we have the margaritas ready...get the recipe...

    Dendan, good news! My friend Jose brought me a jar of the salsa the other day. I will now proceed to investigate what goes into this stuff. I will keep you posted!
    #25
    1bbqboy
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/07 11:15:29 (permalink)
    In the first part of this thread, there's a great discussion on what
    Mexican/Hispanic/Latino means. This seems to illustrate what Richard was talking about. Kristi S, I'm real interested to see what goes in a Dominican salsa. Black Pepper is something I've never seen in recipes. Sounds great! Now I'm wondering what the tomatillo"s range is. What's used for the green base? What do they traditionally
    use this salsa with/on? Cooked or raw?
    #26
    Cakes
    Double Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 562
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    • Location: Sarasota, FL
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/09 11:07:03 (permalink)
    Stokes Green Chile Sauce with Pork.

    My brother-in-law put us onto this. It is a very useful cooking ingredient. Unfortunately we can't get it here in Florida and have to have it shipped in.

    Any comments from the experts? Maybe a recipe so we could make our own?
    #27
    EliseT
    Filet Mignon
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/09 13:01:43 (permalink)
    I'm not sure if you are asking about chile verde when you say "green base"? Tomatillos are green and are boiled down with jalapenos to make chile verde sauce. This is usually cooked with pork. You can also put boiled tomatillos in the blender with alot of jalapenos and serve as a cold salsa on tacos or with chips.
    #28
    1bbqboy
    Filet Mignon
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/09 13:34:55 (permalink)
    hello Elsie,
    I was talking about Kristi S' soon to be dissected salsa or sauce.She's in Florida and her friends are Dominican so in one way it'll be an answer to the original question I ventured. It seems green sauce is making it from coast to coast. What you are describing is what I learned to make in Arizona, but I was imagining more carribean influence in Kristi's version. I also couldn't tell if it was cooked or not. We'll see.
    #29
    EliseT
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 2888
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    RE: green sauces and salsas+chile verde 2003/12/09 14:05:40 (permalink)
    Thanks, I got kind of lost.
    #30
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