introduction....and the general plan

Chef just checked out your pic's and I'd say it's well seasoned now and got a little heat under the grill but it looks good. Mike

Great rig chef...looks great for 1 person operation. Very well thought out.
 
My thoughts on the equipment are related to "the place" and "additional income opportunities".
 
If I can get the location I want, and landscape it proper, I will also offer it for rent, for weddings, private parties, whatever. If that happens, the kitchen will need to be able to produce anything, and lots of it quickly. 
 
Ideally the trailer will be for rent with me, with me and my own crew, me and my own menu, or without me for various price levels. The location I want has a truly stunning view.

Hey chef, in regards to the steam table, I'm more than happy to ice them and use them as cold tables if the bays are separate, so that's another reason for three.
 
And happy for me...I just finished a really nice experiment with chicken tacos...yum. Easy prep and easier execution. Just what I'm looking for.

So I am working on several drawings for an "optimum" trailer layout, most of which will probably not make it to reality, but here's a Q:
 
I intend my trailer to be stationary, or at least have space around it, so I am not taking curbside service into account. I was thinking I would serve out of the end, like I see in many trailers, with one change. I want double doors on the back, with the actual service window recessed 8-12". The inside of the doors would have my menu printed on them, and the recess would have various shelves for condiments/utensils and whatnot. This way, those items could be left in place day-to-day, and I could just close the doors at the end of the day.
 
It is something I haven't seen before, is there a reason? Has someone else tried it? Does it sound like a good idea? 
 
There could also be extra service windows on the sides of the end, that would be used under high volume situations, but otherwise, 8' of service seems like it would be enough.

A good manufacturer will build you just about anything you want.
The only problem I see is that any time there is a wind you risk chasing all thet stuff down the road, and when there's wind, there's dust. I wipe the dust off my counter several times a day, all that stuff will get filled with dirt. People will take 15 napkins when they only need 3, fill their bags with hand fulls of condiments, at .02.-.03 each.
Having only one service window at the end would be a bottle neck I would think, unless your line is designed to feed everything that way.
I think you would loose 3-4 feet in the end if you did a rear window. If I remember correctly,  either L&I or health had some sort of requirement. You won't be able to put equipment all the way against that rear wall.
When I work with a cashier, I stay in my spot, she stays in hers. I slide the food to her on the open counter and she sends it out. She has her back to the broiler all day, but I can work it without her being in the way.
Some other things to chew on, If you buy brend new, all electrical conduit has to be exposed, no a/c units, 5 sinks, all but hand sink with an indirect drain, GFCI in wet areas,
ansul, lp shut off inside the trailer before it splits off to the appliances.

Thanks for the comments chefbuba, the dust was one thing I didn't think about at all. As far as guests over-helping themselves to napkins and such, I agree, it's something to watch out for. In my current drawing, the hot line is approximately 3' from the serving window, so it may pass it may not.
 
The bottle neck effect is one thing I am working on, once you have it, it doesn't go away, although the equipment is setup to feed the service window. 
 
Part of my plan involves working without a cashier as much as is humanly possible, but that's a whole 'nother discussion. 
 
I will definitely consider everything you pointed out, they are all very important details.

Also of note chefbuba: your trailer looks to have an 8' curbside window, wouldn't that be the same as an 8' rear-end window for service-flow?

I'm padding out my thread with some posts to get to 30, so I can put up some pics. 
 
There are at least 3 other primary elements to my plan. the first is "the ordering system"
 
At the risk of being ridiculed off these boards entirely, I am hoping to use an I-pad POS system as a "self-ordering checkout". The premise being that there is one or two ipads that take the orders, and send the tickets to me. How the money transfer and receipt-giving process works, I am still unsure of, but I do know this, employees cost money indefinitely, equipment is eventually paid for. 
 
It wasn't hard to take the price of a POS system, divide it by an employees minimum wage, and figure that a $2000 POS system is equal to a minimum wage employee working 235 hours (or 4.5 hours a week all year round)....but that person is always necessary, and still keeps getting paid. That person also does not track my sales, inventory, and numerous other valuable metrics. 
 
I know it's a stretch, but I'll be damned if I have to higher some lazy teenager to run the cash register (in between "safety-meetings"), every summer to handle the load.
 
I seriously want this. This is how I save money, lower costs and will be able to provide a higher level of quality than my competitors for a lower price. Food costs are not really in my control, dollar goes down----->food and gas goes up. No matter what "grade" of food you're buying. Labor on the other hand....it can be minimized.

Trying a pic of my puppy to see if I qualify.....
 

Having successfully posted a picture...has anyone tried google sketchup for design? The 3D warehouse doesn't have everything you could dream of, but a lot of people have put their own work out there for our use, so it's cool.
 
Here's my initial experiments with an 8x24 footprint. None of this is set in stone.
 

 

 

thanks a lot !!
you have now caused me a reason to loose sleep tonight playing with this new toy!, lol
goggle sketchup you say ?..... are those templates included ??
whats the big round tub looking thing across from the reefer?
 
is it all to scale...oohh heck im going there now, lol

Have you thought about getting a USED concession trailer? Lots of them out there. Although I do like the folks who must have NEW stuff. When their business goes belly up, I can buy their slightly used stuff for pennies on the dollar.

BackAlleyBurger


thanks a lot !!
you have now caused me a reason to loose sleep tonight playing with this new toy!, lol
goggle sketchup you say ?..... are those templates included ??

 
I didn't use any templates, I just clicked "get models"---and searched for "commercial kitchen", it then showed me what existing commercial kitchen components had been modeled and shared. If you don't see what you're looking for, you will have to model it yourself.
 

BackAlleyBurger
 whats the big round tub looking thing across from the reefer?

 
That's my first attempt at modelling a stand-in 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle. It took almost 30 minutes just to learn how to make the dome on the bottom. I intend to make a better one, and upload it, for all to use.

BackAlleyBurger
 is it all to scale...oohh heck im going there now, lol

 
I'm not really sure how the scale thing works. Some models list their dimensions on the warehouse page, others don't. I wanted a double-stack full size convection oven, and found one, but when it downloaded, it was scaled about 4 times larger than my kitchen, so I had to abandon it, and will probably try to model my own. 
 
Even if the equipment isn't perfect, it gives me a good idea of how things will actually be in 3D, and lets me explore all the nooks and crannies in a way you can't do with paper.

lornaschinske


Have you thought about getting a USED concession trailer? Lots of them out there. Although I do like the folks who must have NEW stuff. When their business goes belly up, I can buy their slightly used stuff for pennies on the dollar.

 
Honestly Lorna, I want to do it the exact opposite way. As much as I like the pricing on used trailers, unless it has infrastructure where I need it, I'll probably be buying new. That has the added advantage of being spec'd to current local codes. 
 
The equipment on the other hand....well.....it seems the recession is doing a great job of putting poorly operated restaurants out of business, so there is no reason to pay the "new" premium. The above design probably has well oven $60K in equipment alone, if bought new. I'll be budgeting about $15-20K for equipment, and my initial research shows it's possible. 

So those of you who read the first post, know I'm not a big fan of Sysco/FSA tomatoes. Or of their lettuce from October to March. Or of a lot of other things. There is a long-held island conspiracy theory, that our restaurants are used as the dumping ground for the vendors crappier products, because we only get deliveries (via ferry) once or twice a week. They send us their crap, we call and get it comped, then we throw it away. Oh, and Costco= a whole day spent on the mainland+ferry price, the savings is good, but you can't do it every week.
 
My dissatisfaction has led me down an entirely different path, and that in turn has led me to believe I can operate a profitable food establishment, with a very low, monthly break-even sales figure.
 
So here's how "the menu" and "prep methodology" works: The menu itself will be split into two different parts, one, the static menu, will be comprised of 10 or less items, which are built around products that I know I can buy from vendors/costco, that are of respectable quality all year round. The other side of the menu will be "seasonal specials", specific dishes that highlight both livestock and produce that is locally grown. Each special will have an operating window of 3-6 weeks, if it sells good, it will be back next year, if not, it just goes away. The premise is to use my rotating menu to promote the products of local growers, and provide a much higher level of food quality. 
 
That's a lot of work right? A lot of inventory? A lot of regular, skilled prep?  Well, running the risk of ridicule again, here goes....
 
From the word "go", I will be batch-prepping a 2-3 month supply of all static menu items (this is why there is a 40 gallon steam kettle in the plans). Specials will also be designed from a batch-prep standpoint. All starting materials will be bought at once, prepped into their respective end-products.....
 
Then vacuum-sealed (individually,or in packs of 5-10), and immediately frozen. 
 
Once the initial prep is done, I have little standing raw inventory, I have a total input price of a given batch and a total volume yield, which gives me very accurate pricing, with less fluctuations over time (POS inventory tracking is next-to-useless when your input price changes every week).
 
Though the specials will utilize some fresh prepped ingredients, I will minimize these in the design stage. 
 
I know that fresh-frozen isn't really that popular of a concept, but compared to fresh-mediocre? I don't know about y'all, but I hate that most food I buy has spent more time on an airplane than I have. Was picked green in some 3rd world country. And it's market value is predicated upon how it looks, rather than how it tastes. So I want to find better ways to integrate better products, while still keeping a menu that is accessible and affordable, and like my POS concept, I think I can make this happen, and happen profitably by reducing labor wherever I can. 
 
 

The only thing I can see in the layout that you might re-consider is the ovens between the fridge and the bainmarie. One hot between 2 colds makes a higher electric bill and stresses all the units more than they need. Workflow wise I am not sure how it effects your material flow but I would put hots and colds on seperate walls or ends of the unit.
 
Try to think of materials coming in being processed and materials going out.  Print out your layout and draw on the plan what your motions will be and where you will be getting things, processing things and sending things out. They call it a spaghetti diagram. Try to reduce the lines back and fourth. Less motion meant more productivity and less on the job fatigue. I am not sure where your window(s) and doors are in the layout so I may be full of it too.  Hope it helps.

You are still short the produce sink. Also, how are you going to drain the hand sink, when it is at the opposite end of the trailer from the rest of your sinks?
You would need to have a sperate waste tank for that one sink.
Is that a dish washer under the 3 comp sink?
Don't forget that you have to squeeze in a water heater and fresh water tank under that sink, in a warmer climate the water tank could be under mounted, but not up here, too cold.
Don't know your winter temps over there, but here, it's a bitch the keep everything fluid during the winter. Keep that in mind too. 
Looks like your entry door will be drivers side past the sinks?
That's where mine is, 3 comp sinks across the nose in "L" continuing down the curbside w/ produce sink, then hand.
All the plumbing is in one spot, everything drained to the tank from there.
The hand sink is the only one that can be direct drained to the tank, the others have to have a 1" air gap (think floor sink), then in to the tank.
There needs to be a  P-trap on each sink.
You will also need to have a back flow device on your fresh water inlet that can be tested.
As far as chickenscoops comment on hot and cold together and compressor stress, it does not matter in my opinion, it is always very hot in there, there will always be too much heat, compressors are going to wear out faster, its the nature of the beast.
Your reach ins will have the compressors top mounted, the heat is trapped at ceiling level a foot above the compressor, no way to avoid it.
And forget about a/c. L&I will not allow it on new built trailers, as it is not energy efficient!

The round tank is a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle? Are you putting us on?????
 
1st do you have any idea what they cost?
2nd You'd need a separate drain line and trap system for a kettle. And a separate water line to the 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle.
3rd How are you going to power it,electric,or Propane?
They cook with hot water in the jacket and you'd need a hell of a power source to run one.
I don't think there is a restaurant in Springfield that has a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle in it. I don't know a lot about them but I have one I turned into a really cool charcoal grill and a spare sitting in my garage, and used and no longer serviceable they are still rare and higher than hell.
 
Do you really need one? What are you going to do with a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle, sorry but I'm fascinated by this?

chefbuba

I will try to answer everything in red, remember that some of the questions you are asking and points you are making, are all in consideration, and all part of the process. I am using sketchup so I can virtually "re-arrange" any and all pieces of hardware

You are still short the produce sink.
I am hoping to convince the HD that a steam kettle, when turned off, is equivalent(I know, that's a gamble)
Also, how are you going to drain the hand sink, when it is at the opposite end of the trailer from the rest of your sinks? Help me out here, why can't you just plumb it? And really, it doesn't need to be there, I'm just experimenting. 
You would need to have a sperate waste tank for that one sink. It won't stay there if that's  true
Is that a dish washer under the 3 comp sink? It might be....I want to be flexible
 
Don't forget that you have to squeeze in a water heater and fresh water tank under that sink, in a warmer climate the water tank could be under mounted, but not up here, too cold. I'm working on the hot water tank, as far as fresh and grey water goes, if I'm permanent, I won't need either (though it might be good to install them for future resale purposes)
Don't know your winter temps over there, but here, it's a bitch the keep everything fluid during the winter. Keep that in mind too.  I'll need the incoming water line boxed and insulated (maybe even a light-bulb in the box), as far as the trailer itself, on the worst days, I'd probably be draining it nightly, or just close up til the we're in the high 20's.
 
Looks like your entry door will be drivers side past the sinks? Still undecided.
That's where mine is, 3 comp sinks across the nose in "L" continuing down the curbside w/ produce sink, then hand.
All the plumbing is in one spot, everything drained to the tank from there.
The hand sink is the only one that can be direct drained to the tank, the others have to have a 1" air gap (think floor sink), then in to the tank.
There needs to be a  P-trap on each sink.
You will also need to have a back flow device on your fresh water inlet that can be tested. All the above will be mandatory, so I'm not too worried about it. The HD will tell me what I need to get the classification I want.
As far as chickenscoops comment on hot and cold together and compressor stress, it does not matter in my opinion, it is always very hot in there, there will always be too much heat, compressors are going to wear out faster, its the nature of the beast.
Your reach ins will have the compressors top mounted, the heat is trapped at ceiling level a foot above the compressor, no way to avoid it. Not really worried about the oven next to the fridge. The nice thing about convections is that they can vent directly, and don't have to be squeezed under the hood. Putting it on the cold side gives me a total production line length of about 9', make it any longer and it needs more people.
And forget about a/c. L&I will not allow it on new built trailers, as it is not energy efficient!
That's so lame. It will be brutal in the Summer

Dr of BBQ


The round tank is a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle? Are you putting us on????? Nope

1st do you have any idea what they cost? $1200-$2500 used
2nd You'd need a separate drain line and trap system for a kettle. And a separate water line to the 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle. Fine. I would like to copy Chefbuba's design, with a raised floor under the equipment, which creates space for extra plumbing, drainage and electrical.
3rd How are you going to power it,electric,or Propane? Likely propane
They cook with hot water in the jacket and you'd need a hell of a power source to run one.
I don't think there is a restaurant in Springfield that has a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle in it. I don't know a lot about them but I have one I turned into a really cool charcoal grill and a spare sitting in my garage, and used and no longer serviceable they are still rare and higher than hell.

Do you really need one? What are you going to do with a 40 gallon steam jacketed kettle, sorry but I'm fascinated by this? I'm gonna make 40 gallons of soup, 150#'s  of caramelized onions, god knows how many pounds of pulled pork, and anything else that comes to mind. And since I want to be able to rent my unit to would-be local producers, I will be able to offer more than a stockpot stove, but a full, batch-prep kitchen. 
 
I've worked with large steam kettle's before, they're fantastic, and much more versatile than you would imagine. Ice bath? Back-up hot holding? Veg sink (maybe)? I have plenty of idea's, all of them big, and all with the same goal: To not make small-to-medium sized batches of everything, hope it sells, and throw out what doesn't sell in time. But to make substantial batches of everything, break it down into smaller lots, thaw and serve as necessary. Reducing prep time, better tracking of inventory, easier pricing schedule, less waste (tossing out 2 portions of something rather than 1/2 a gallon).
 
Hell, I'm even looking at used blast chillers
 
If y'all think I'm crazy, that's OK. 

And a quote to finish the day:
 
"Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling, aim for the ceiling, and you'll stay on the floor."

 

Hey Chefbuba,
 
If you check this thread....I had a consult with a friend of mine last night, and she suggested that when I talk to the HD, I try and show an example or two of people doing what I plan to do in the state of WA, since it will be a completely new concept for our county. The Seattle food trucks are bad examples because they're mobile, and I want to be stationary. Basically, I need to show them how it is done properly elsewhere, to help me get approved here.
 
Would you mind sharing some details about your utility hook-ups for me? 
 
And any info on what your HD required?
 
Thanks in advance.

Well, it's been a bit, and I've been busy 3D modelling, and getting price quotes on some stuff. The modelling is fun, and I cracked-out a bit too much, only to later realize that beureaucrats and creditors will have more say in my equipment choices than I will, and that I should probably stop and wait til I talk to the HD, and possibly the building dept before I go building everything virtually.
 
Though I did learn how to quickly and competently model whatever my future plans will be, so the HD will be able to virtually tour my plan in 3D, whatever it may be.
 
After roughing up my models, I started calling around for service quotes and running scalable sales projection models, both of which were very depressing. I can see why our local vendors are struggling .
 
In the end though, I've realized that I have the ability to build-in savings at the ground floor, when  most of my competitors planned for an infinite-bubble-reality.
 
What's curious is that it looks like spending more money up front towards systems that minimize long-term recurring costs will be more effective than starting off cheap.
 
Along these lines of thought I'm looking at self-delivery of my food waste to a commercial composting business. It's staggeringly cheaper than putting food waste in the trash and paying the ungodly pricing my local service demands, and  makes the enviro's feel warm and fuzzy too. Everybody wins. 
 
I'll be spending a lot more time running numbers, when I have better input, and I do think this can work, but like I said in my first post, there's more to it than just making great food.

So I've had a couple of conversations with the local HD lady, and she seems intent on interpreting state health code in  the strictest possible way. From what I gather, she thinks I should 
 
A)open a brick & mortar establishment to serve the kind of food I want to....or
 
B) my mobile unit should just be a large, expensive steam-table, serving things made and heated at the commissary, and tossed at the end of the day. 
 
How many of you guys toss all your food or sell out? 
 
Also, I see ads for mobile units doing what I want to, in my state, yet my local HD rep tells me such things "would not be approved" in my county, so......if most other counties allow the variances I'm seeking, do I have any recourse (at the state level) to pursue these variances, or is her word the law?

PS:
 
I have vastly reduced the size and scope of my initial plan, as these conversations have progressed.
 
 

cracker75

So I've had a couple of conversations with the local HD lady, and she seems intent on interpreting state health code in  the strictest possible way. From what I gather, she thinks I should 
A)open a brick & mortar establishment to serve the kind of food I want to....or
B) my mobile unit should just be a large, expensive steam-table, serving things made and heated at the commissary, and tossed at the end of the day. 
How many of you guys toss all your food or sell out? 
Also, I see ads for mobile units doing what I want to, in my state, yet my local HD rep tells me such things "would not be approved" in my county, so......if most other counties allow the variances I'm seeking, do I have any recourse (at the state level) to pursue these variances, or is her word the law?

I suggest putting out a "Contract" on the HD Lady! Problem is the replacement might be tougher!

Foodbme

utting out a "Contract" on the HD Lady! Problem is the replacement might be tougher! 

 
And I thought I had a dark sense of humor....lol.

Big thanks to Chefbuba, for taking the time to talk to me personally, about his HD rep and his operation.
 
I am now certain the one we have is either stupid or protecting other interests.

Cracker75 - Our local HD inspector specifically told me:  Local supersedes State if its more restrictive (and not - if its less).  But after being "followed" on Facebook by the HD, I'm much more careful what I put in cyberspace.  Not that I'm trying to hide anything - its just that they scare me with their power.  They told us in the beginning they don't like open air carts.  We should have taken that more seriously. 
I've been really impressed with you and your plans.  You really know what you want and I hope you get close to it.