'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting

Post
startrooper00
Cheeseburger
2005/04/11 23:39:32
Ok...can anyone give me a good history of the Sambo's restraunt chain.
Spudnut
Double Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/11 23:58:22
A good history...no. I can tell you that in the 1970s (I believe) the chain, which in my area at least was sort of a Denny's kind of place, came to the realization that Sambo's wasn't the most politic name anymore. In my area, they changed their name to Sam's, which I presume was a nationwide name change as opposed to the choice of our local franchisee. Soon after, poof, they were gone.

Here's an article I found from 1998:

Sambo's revival running into hot water
In this story:
Original Sambo looked African
Book reissued under new title
Related sites
January 28, 1998
Web posted at: 9:16 p.m. EDT (2116 GMT)
From Correspondent Greg LaMotte

SANTA BARBARA, California (CNN) -- Once upon a time there was a man named Sam Battistone. Sam had a friend named Newell Bohnett, whom everyone called Bo.

In 1957, the two men decided to open a restaurant. They figured they'd serve sizzling hotcakes, offer coffee for 10 cents a cup and give their customers service with a smile.

They called the restaurant Sambo's.

Fast-forward 41 years. Sam Battistone's grandson, Chad Stevens, has plans to rebuild the restaurant chain -- which once numbered 1,200 units coast-to-coast -- to its former glory.

There's just one problem: the name.

Sambo's was an amalgam of Sam and Bo, and as part of their marketing strategy the founders used a logo based on a children's story called "Little Black Sambo."

The book was written in 1899 by Helen Bannerman, a Scottish woman, and takes place in India. It is about a little boy who goes into the jungle and loses his clothing to bullying tigers. But the tigers chase each other around a tree and eventually melt into butter, which Sambo puts on his pancakes and eats.

The marketing strategy was obvious: Sam and Bo open Sambo's, and pancakes were one of the restaurant's specialties.

Original Sambo looked African

Sambo as depicted in the book
The original Sambo's restaurant used as its logo a depiction of an Indian boy, but in the book -- and in the minds of many who read it -- Sambo looked more African than Indian.

Eventually the chain failed and the reason given was that it expanded too fast. But Stevens nurtures visions of putting his grandfather's empire back together.

Only one of the original restaurants survived, the first one in Santa Barbara.

"This store hasn't changed at all," says Stevens. "We've done a little bit of facelift on it but, for the most part, the kitchen's the same."


Sambo as depicted by the restaurant
Stevens not only wants to rebuild the Sambo's empire, he also wants to keep the name. And the name, which took on negative connotations in the 1930s and 1940s, is generating opposition.

"The cultural understanding of 'Little Black Sambo' is a negative," says Professor Frank Gilliam of UCLA. "It's meant to suggest that people of African descent are childlike, that they're irresponsible, that they're not fully developed human beings."

Carol Codrington of Loyola Law School said the character was used to stereotype African Americans as shiftless and lazy.

Book reissued under new title
Stevens protests that the restaurant is based on a family name, not racism.


"I have a hard time," he says, "and maybe being white or Anglo-Saxon, maybe I'm not seeing something. Maybe I'm blind to something. I'm sorry about that. Just read the story, and you tell me."

While it is no doubt still possible to find copies of Bannerman's original story, which has charmed generations, publishers decided to avoid the negative connotations by reissuing the book with a new title: "The Story of Little Babaji."

The boy, his mother and father are given authentic Indian names -- Babaji, Mamaji, Dadaji -- and the illustrations are emphatically Indian.

Stevens says this is the 1990s. He just wants to sell good food and coffee, and he hopes that when it comes to Sambo's, this won't be the end.




MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/12 03:09:01
We had several of these in Fresno and they were always a favorite of mine. Dad would take me at least once a month, just him and I. It was a great time and I loved the story of Little Black Sambo. I always found Sambo to be pretty smart, he outwitted the tigers and didn't get eaten.

Our YMCA Indian Guides held a yearly pancake breakfast and Sambo's always gave us the pancake mix free. We usually got 2 5 gallon milk cans and almost always sold out.

MikeS.
mr chips
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 03:36:21
Sambo is a racial slur and should not be in a restaurant name, regardless of the owner's intent.
MissKitty
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 09:35:14
Yep I agree. Doesn't matter what the name originated as, the point is, its deemed to be offensive in the now. Lets not get bogged down in nostalgia about what these words and images did or didnt mean in the past, its 2005 and hopefully we've moved on some.
SouthHillbilly
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 11:05:07
Yea, sorry Sam and Bo, but it's just too full of historically negative connotation.
I read LBS when I was a child and didn't get any negative impressions of black people from it, but when someone referred to a black man as "Sambo" it was full of nothing but racist hate. It would be rediculous to use that to name an establishment.
Give up the name. If you've got something worthwhile to offer, why ruin it with a bad name?
BT
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 11:55:25
"Racial slur", "deemed to be offensive", "negative connotation" . . . .

An annecdote: my white, rather racist dad recently succumbed to cancer but in his last months required a lot of assistance to eat, bathe etc. My 80-something mom couldn't do it so they got a home health aide who turned out to be a marvelous, sweet and very large African-American lady who cooked some mean soul food for them among her other duties. She and dad bonded in a way that was quite surprising and, since his death, we now consider her a family friend. My sister, however, got very nostalgic in dad's last days and one of the things from her childhood she dragged out was some old books including "Little Black Sambo". One day, she forgot and left a copy of that book on a table at dad's house and, when the health aid came over, she saw it. She had never seen it before, apparently and she picked it up and looked through it (my mom was, at that point, cringing in the corner), smiled and said something like, "That looks like a good book. I'm surprised to see you white folks have it."

"Slur" is in the eye of the beholder. But I agree that enough people consider it a slur that it's an unwise name for a business serving the public.
MissKitty
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 16:04:06
That's probably what they call the exception that proves the rule

If they want to keep the historical connotations without the racist ones, I guess they could call it literally Sam & Bo's.
BakersBoy
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 16:37:30
Thirty-five years ago I was and intern for a police department in New York. Doing pretty much ride along stuff but also some photgraphy. I worked the midnight shift and the only place that was open to eat was "Sambos". They had great coffee and pancakes. The coffee was free the pancakes we had to pay for. I find the name "Sambo's" no nore offensive than I do the name "Hooter's". Is it ok to offend one group and not care about the other. How about "Fat Boy's in Statesville, NC. Should we feel bad for all the fat boys who have had their feelings hurt over the name of a restaurant.

I think that you should call your restaurant anything you like. Blatant racisim is one thing but this is not. If the food is good then people will come. BTW, I feel sorry for all those single folks having to know that there is a "Loveless Cafe".

BB
Salustra
Double Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 18:06:10
My brothers and I were convinced that the "tiger butter" served at Sambo's was better than the regular stuff we had at home or anywhere else! And I agree with MikeSh: Sambo seemed pretty smart to me for outwitting the tigers...
I wonder if mom still has our copy of Little Black Sambo packed away with Pokey Little Puppy, Mike Mulligan, Sam the Firefly, Benjie Engie, etc...
elswinger
Hamburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2005/04/18 18:45:42
The Sambo's in Lacey, WA, changed its name to "Seasons" then quickly went out of business. Though I understand how offensive the name was to people of color, it's kind of a shame that they closed because I have fond memories of their pancakes and hamburgers.
scottasbj
Junior Burger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/19 19:52:01
It seems to me that people are all too willing to create their own enemies where they don't exist. If it is offensive in the 'now', then someone decided it was, and for their own selfish reasons. Someone that probably was not around the situation originally (1957). To say that it doesn't matter what the original motive was, they are still guilty, is not something you would want done to you. I think that after 40 years of government programs designed to offer opportunities to blacks, and other 'minorities', there would be some gratitude. Mainly because the U.S. is the only country in history to do this. Yep, that's right, those Trillions of government dollars spent on the 'Diversity Programs' since 'The Great Society' are from taxpayers. Working Americans, the very ones that are supposedly the racists. If people want to use PC tactics on others (shrill, hollow accusations), blame the President for everything, use their own racial slurs when they think no one else is listening, then they need to take a good long look at themselves. If Sambo would have been a Viking, a Saxon, or even a Leprechaun, there would be no cries of 'racial slur'. Gives you a good idea of who does most of the work in this society, and who doesn't. We have better things to do than playing the victim role, and expecting everyone else to take care of us.


quote:
Originally posted by MissKitty

Yep I agree. Doesn't matter what the name originated as, the point is, its deemed to be offensive in the now. Lets not get bogged down in nostalgia about what these words and images did or didnt mean in the past, its 2005 and hopefully we've moved on some.
tacchino
Double Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/19 22:40:55
"..the US is the only country in history to do this.."
Not correct, scotta..numerous countries in Western Europe, as well as other nations, have developed programs to integrate minority populations into the "mainstream." Regardless, your argument seems to be if a term was inoffensive at one point in history, then we have no right to deem it offensive at a later point in time. This argument makes little sense to me, and if we look at a whole of terms used for various races, creeds, religions that we used historically in this country as well as other places, we would cringe at using them again...and rightly so. Language is organic and dynamic, not static...meaning it grows and adapts to the cultures in which it survives and thrives.
caratzas
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/20 01:08:08
quote:
Originally posted by scottasbj

Yep, that's right, those Trillions of government dollars spent on the 'Diversity Programs' since 'The Great Society' are from taxpayers. Working Americans, the very ones that are supposedly the racists.

Yeah, because only white people work and pay taxes in this country. Sheesh. Somebody please tell me this is a troll.

There's a principle of hospitality suggesting that hosts not do things that could offend their guests, and my momma called it "good manners." If you're an entrepreneur it's also called "business sense." I like to call it "getting your head out of your (synonym for 'donkey' goes here)."

Given our complicated history, there's often a fine line between nostalgia and racism. I have a friend whose father looks down upon her dating men of other races. She explains it away with "he's very traditional." Yeah, maybe, but he's a racist too. Some traditions deserve to be allowed to lapse.
scottasbj
Junior Burger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/20 01:36:26
quote:
Originally posted by caratzas

quote:
Originally posted by scottasbj

Yep, that's right, those Trillions of government dollars spent on the 'Diversity Programs' since 'The Great Society' are from taxpayers. Working Americans, the very ones that are supposedly the racists.

Yeah, because only white people work and pay taxes in this country. Sheesh. Somebody please tell me this is a troll.

There's a principle of hospitality suggesting that hosts not do things that could offend their guests, and my momma called it "good manners." If you're an entrepreneur it's also called "business sense." I like to call it "getting your head out of your (synonym for 'donkey' goes here)."

Given our complicated history, there's often a fine line between nostalgia and racism. I have a friend whose father looks down upon her dating men of other races. She explains it away with "he's very traditional." Yeah, maybe, but he's a racist too. Some traditions deserve to be allowed to lapse.


First of all, I didn't say only white people work. If you need clarification, the majority of the people that have been paying the taxes over the last forty years for these social programs have been the majority in the population, whites. Define for me what racism is, please. I don't believe that any ethnicity is superior to another. I do feel that some cultures do markedly better than others, and it has nothing to do with one group of people being superior 'racially' to anyone else. The U.S. didn't invent slavery, it has been around since civilization has been. You would think by all of the rhetoric that we did. There is a ton of hypocrisy on this subject, and Morgan Freeman said the same thing I did 7 years ago at my Boeing Diveristy class. It will get better when we stop talking about it. I was told that I had to go to this class to learn how talk to blacks. If we live in a society where we are truly equal, then this is basically illegal. How can things get better when you are forced into that? It is as if there is this assumption that 'the rest of us' are held to a standard of behavior, and the 'protected classes' are exempt. The fact that certain people want to find anything they can to cry 'racism', and that is 'offensive' should maybe stop and wonder how 'offensive they might be. Yes, we blew up the levees because we needed something to do, yes Mayor Nagin is a qualified Mayor/Human Being, and yes, Katrina is all W's fault, because although the same people that want the government to stay out of their lives, also want them to come and rescue them 'right now'. Ever deal with a government agency? If you have, it would not be a surprise that things don't happen immediately. Especially if the local and state people don't even attempt to do their jobs. My message is really simple, you look for trouble and easily find it anywhere, Or, you can start living your life as an American, not an African-American (does that mean I should call myself a Scandinavian-American, and seek money because a tribe of Saxons enslaved a large group of my ancesters), not a Mexican-American, Asian-American, etc.
roossy90
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/25 19:43:39
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10405
I brought this subject up a bit back.. Click the link, and there are many replies, and a very heated subject .....
Tara
sizz
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/25 23:38:48
quote:
scottasbj Posted - 01/19/2006 : 19:52:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that people are all too willing to create their own enemies where they don't exist. If it is offensive in the 'now', then someone decided it was, and for their own selfish reasons.
quote:
scottasbj Posted - 01/20/2006 : 01:36:26There is a ton of hypocrisy on this subject

where you will find many a Liberal ready to shut down a Sambo's because a little Indian boy ( who may resemble a black kid from Gary Indiana) is used to sell pancakes, these same Liberals wont even blink an eyes as they pass a joint using Benjamin Franklin to sell hot-dogs. ................ Ben Who? I guess racism only applies to certain races.
scottasbj
Junior Burger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/25 23:58:25
Of course, because it really isn't about 'justice and equality', like is was with MLK (RIP). It is about the opposite.
quote:
Originally posted by fpczyz

quote:
scottasbj Posted - 01/19/2006 : 19:52:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that people are all too willing to create their own enemies where they don't exist. If it is offensive in the 'now', then someone decided it was, and for their own selfish reasons.
quote:
scottasbj Posted - 01/20/2006 : 01:36:26There is a ton of hypocrisy on this subject

where you will find many a Liberal ready to shut down a Sambo's because a little Indian boy ( who may resemble a black kid from Gary Indiana) is used to sell pancakes, these same Liberals wont even blink an eyes as they pass a joint using Benjamin Franklin to sell hot-dogs. ............... Ben Who? I guess racism only applies to certain races.

sizz
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 00:52:13
Welcome to Roadfood.com scottasbj .."Scott" I presume ........ I must say I agree with your first 3 posts............. but I also must warn you that tomorrow morning when the Liberals on this forum take note of your presence they will nail you to the cross as if you were President George W Bush himself......... lol
Right now there very busy spending their evening hours hand printing "Hillary In 2008" posters. and a few are out of town attending a symposium on "How Global Warming caused
by George W, is effecting the plumpness of today's market tomatoes "
Welcome Scott and hang around this is the best food on the road forum you'll find. Frank
scottasbj
Junior Burger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 01:36:18
Hey Frank,

I have to recommend a few books to you. The first is "This Present Darkness", and "Piercing the Darkness", by Frank Peretti. The former being fairly famous, and the latter being right on the nose regarding Liberalism, and the forces behind it. I come here with some credentials on this subject matter, BA in History and Popular Culture, with some time in a class called 'Ethnicity and Race', a few years back when I was naive enough to think that trying to do what is right will eventually bring about 'equality and justice', some other classes on Southern Africa, which makes more clear the
connection of racism to slavery, mainly because it offers the chance to look at the History from more of an outsider perspective. But enough of that. I am old enough to remember a time when as a kid, a could go out at night, and be safe. We didn't lock the doors to our cars in the High School parking lot. My point is that if we are more 'free' now than we were before, then why is life so dangerous now? That isn't freedom. We do people seriously fools like Ted Kennedy? By the way, how many of our soldiers have Mr. Chappaquiddick Kennedy get killed with his Seditious remarks? Oh, I forgot most of the people around today have no idea that is. Look it up! More Taxes? Didn't we fight the American Revolution over that? Presidential Powers? Remember FDR? George Clooney doing a movie about Edward R. Murrow? I read Fred Friendly's book more than two times, and I don't believe that Murrow would even talk to Clooney if he were alive. The same people that defended Clinton (yes, I want the leader of the free world to be a known adulterer, that is a great example to our youth) hate George Bush? So what? Stupidity isn't cured in very many individual's lifetimes. Hey, if we have a woman President, I think that it should be Monica Crowley, with Anne Coulter as Defense Secretary. There, I think that I have said enough for now. Nice to meet you Frank. Glad there is a few of us still left.

Best,

Scott

"Better to be a Pachyderm than an Ass!"

quote:
Originally posted by fpczyz

Welcome to Roadfood.com scottasbj .."Scott" I presume ........ I must say I agree with your first 3 posts............. but I also must warn you that tomorrow morning when the Liberals on this forum take note of your presence they will nail you to the cross as if you were President George W Bush himself......... lol
Right now there very busy spending their evening hours hand printing "Hillary In 2008" posters. and a few are out of town attending a symposium on "How Global Warming caused
by George W, is effecting the plumpness of today's market tomatoes "
Welcome Scott and hang around this is the best food on the road forum you'll find. Frank
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 06:14:01
More than a few of us. Welcome, Scott.
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 13:53:31
quote:
Originally posted by fpczyz


where you will find many a Liberal ready to shut down a Sambo's because a little Indian boy ( who may resemble a black kid from Gary Indiana) is used to sell pancakes, these same Liberals wont even blink an eyes as they pass a joint using Benjamin Franklin to sell hot-dogs. ............... Ben Who? I guess racism only applies to certain races.



Huh?!? While this may be a tasteless exploitation of a great founding father's name, how in the heck does it qualify as, or relate to, "racism" in any way shape or form? Sorry Frank, your argument is spurious. As for our little Scotty's rantings, I'll address those when I have time. I gotta get somewhere at the moment so, sorry to leave you hanging.

Hugs and Kisses from a tree huggin', flag burnin', gay marriage supportin' lefty,

Buddy
Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 14:59:30
quote:
Originally posted by scottasbj

More Taxes? Didn't we fight the American Revolution over that?




This is the problem with a rant.
You want to make a sound argument, but instead you rant and make a huge blunder.

You lay a claim that you have some sort of inside knowledge of what's really happening in government, and then manage to show your misinformation all in the same breath.

The American Revolution was NOT about more taxes. Though, concedingly, taxes were used as the rally call. It's not so much that there were taxes, it's that they were taxed and had no representation in England. The money went overseas and was not kept for use in the colony and the colony parliament. Taxes were a mere part of the broader picture of reasons for separation and to trivialize the revolution to have occured simply because of taxes, does not show a knowledge of depth in the subject. Taxes were a way Britian was trying to control the colony. The war was over control of the land, mercantilism, industry and religion.

However, I haven't the time for a lengthy dissertation on the subject. However, I will say that while I hold but some of your beliefs to be true, your misleading comment allows others to puncture gaping holes in the rest of your argument.

And that is the problem with a rant, instead of a well thought out comment.

Welcome to the site. I hope to also hear about your food experiences as much as your dealings with the Federal government.



BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 17:45:16
Good start Scorereader. I've got more in the works. Talk to you soon Scott.
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/26 23:40:28
quote:
Originally posted by scottasbj

Hey Frank,

I have to recommend a few books to you. The first is "This Present Darkness", and "Piercing the Darkness", by Frank Peretti. The former being fairly famous, and the latter being right on the nose regarding Liberalism, and the forces behind it.


Due to a tight schedule, I am sadly lacking a big enough block of time to tear this apart all at once. So, let's do this piece by piece.

You've got some major problems with your argument right off the bat. This Frank Peretti fellow is an Evangelical Christian writer. Now while there is nothing inherently wrong with this, the works you've sited, as described on his own website, are FICTION, not unlike that "Left Behind" series of books. If you're going to make a case for yourself in subjects like racism and politics, which are based in the real world, you might want to load your arsenal with non-fiction. To make matters worse for you, because this is the lead sentence in your rant, it pretty much strips away whatever legitimacy the rest of your argument might have had.

But that is a matter for tomorrow. Tonight I must go. More later. Toodles.
unalaskawoman
Hamburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 02:47:43
So, if conservatives are really against more government involvement in people's lives, then why are they so darn committed to legislating who you can love, who you can marry, and how/when/if you want to bear children?
sizz
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 13:58:48
well Scott as predicted here they come.............. break out the old rubber boots it's going to get a little putrid in here and you'll soon be up to your butt in Liberal crap.............. Our job here is done Scott lets move on. Making fun of Liberals is fine but to drag these poor mentally ill folks through the mud by associating them with intelligent thought is no longer fun...... these are truly sick people.

BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 15:26:15
Frank, I thought better of you up to this moment. Good healthy political disagreement, when it is based on fact, reason, and ethics, is an important part of our American heritage. My point here with Scott's ramblings (and I'll continue my critique in a fresh post) is that they contain none of the above.

Your most recent post is a low, name calling cop-out. I certainly acknowledge that there is more than one valid opinion around here (neo-cons call it wishy-washy). So let's hear yours in a thoughtful, well reasoned argument.

Just to give you a little idea of who you're dealing with, my political leanings tend to drift toward both the Liberal and the Libertarian point of view. Yes, people should be responsible for their own actions and decisions. But that assumes that everyone lives their lives in a moral, ethical, and just fashion, with no one taking unfair advantage of any other individual or group. As that is not the case, we need some level of government intervention to make sure that the lowest among us are protected and in some cases provided for.

Believe it or not I support the second amendment with just as much zeal as I do the first. The difference between me and the NRA is that I support ALL the words in the second amendment, not just the ones that make my case.

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

As I understand it, the NRA defines "militia" as every man, woman and child who is a citizen of the United States. You know what, I'll give 'em that. No argument. BUT-let's focus on the two words before that, "well-regulated". Well, let's see, I got me a Funk & Wagnalls (no, really) dictionary right here..."regulate, transitive verb, 1.To direct, manage, or control according to certain rules, principles, etc. 2.To adjust according to a standard, degree, etc."

So, a "well-regulated militia" is one that is subject to the management and control of the individual state (the second amendment only prohibits the federal government from sticking their noses into things) based on that state's rules and principles which can be adjusted to meet the needs and requirements of that state based on current standards or degrees. In other words, gun ownership never has been and never should be a free for all.

I also support the rebuilding in Iraq. We went in there, we made a mess, and now it is our moral responsiblity to clean it up. We've established this precedent in almost every conflict since the Civil War. That being said, I also believe that it was George Bush's unstated intent, in an effort to avenge his daddy's attempted murder by Saddam Hussein, to invade Iraq starting back before the 2000 presidential campaign. While I am not ignorant enough or callous enough to suggest that Mr. Bush brought the 9/11 attacks upon us, I would posit that he used that horrible criminal act to propel his own nation building agenda. Had 9/11 not occurred, he would have looked for any opportunity, any motivation for deposing Saddam Hussein. As such, this administration has conducted itself more shamefully, more criminally than any of Bill Clinton's extra-marital dalliances.

My point here is that while I call myself a Liberal, my attitudes and political beliefs are far more complex than the stereotypical characterization that neo-cons love to bandy about. If you're so smart and I'm so wrong, then convince me. I'm an open minded individual capable of seeing more than one point of view when it is intelligently and carefully laid out. If you want to have a political debate in the "Off Topic" forum (if the moderators will kindly allow it), then let's have one. A debate, I mean. Not some cheap shot, name calling barbs that prove nothing and accomplish less.
Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 15:31:14
quote:
Originally posted by fpczyz

well Scott as predicted here they come.............. break out the old rubber boots it's going to get a little putrid in here and you'll soon be up to your butt in Liberal crap.............. Our job here is done Scott lets move on. Making fun of Liberals is fine but to drag these poor mentally ill folks through the mud by associating them with intelligent thought is no longer fun...... these are truly sick people.




It's comments like this that makes the GOP look bad. Thankfully, I'm surrounded by more intelligent conservatives than the person who wrote this, so I know better.

It's so anoying when someone slings mud, as you did, rather than pull a cohesive argument together.

In answer to unalaskawoman, the answer is: that was a trolling question. And I think you knew that. However, if you think "ah ha! I got you. Conservatives are hypocritical," then perhaps you need to to talk to either Senator Murkowski or Senator Stevens, or their staffers, the next time one of them is back home.

or contact them this way:
Murkowski, Lisa- (R - AK)
709 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-6665
Web Form: murkowski.senate.gov/contact.cfm

Stevens, Ted- (R - AK)
522 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3004
Web Form: stevens.senate.gov/contact.cfm

then we can all be sure not to sling mud around.
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 15:42:30
Scorereader, have I been sucked in, duped by a troller called Scottasbj? Please say it ain't so. I had so much more to say about his post(s). But if this guy is just trying to stir up trouble, then why rise to the bait.

On the other hand, Frank, if you're up for a carefully thought out, well reasoned discussion, I'm all yours, till doctor assisted death and Liberal spent taxes do us part.
Beer&Snausages
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 17:15:46
"Sambo's" - Not Ok "Aunt Jemima" - Still Ok?

Here's the info on AJ taken from AdAge's site http://www.adage.com/century/icon07.html

"AUNT JEMIMA
PRODUCT: Aunt Jemima pancake mixes and syrup
DATE INTRODUCED: 1893
CREATOR: Chris Rutt/Davis Milling Co.

Few commercial icons deserve to be called "cultural touchstones" of significant political and social change. But the Aunt Jemima trademark is one of them.

The image of the smiling black woman first appeared on thousands of boxes of pancake mix in the early 1890s, but throughout the 20th century, Aunt Jemima's trademark mirrored America's changing perceptions of African-American women.

The idea of Aunt Jemima was first conceived by newspaperman and entrepreneur Chris Rutt, according to the Afro-American Almanac. Mr. Rutt and his partner, Charles Underwood, had developed and packaged a ready-mixed, self-rising pancake flour but they had not settled on a name or brand positioning.

One evening Mr. Rutt attended a vaudeville show and heard a tune called "Aunt Jemima" sung by a black-faced performer clad in an apron and bandana headband. The melody was such a hit, Rutt decided to use the song's title as the name for his pancake mix.

When Rutt and Underwood later sold the business to Davis Milling, the company hired Nancy Green, a 59-year-old former slave, to serve as the living trademark for the mix. The image of Aunt Jemina, however, is an artist's rendering and has appeared on Aunt Jemima products -- now marketed by successor Quaker Oats Co. -- ever since.

Beginning in the 1950s, the Aunt Jemima logo started coming under criticism that its image of a black "Mammy" in a kerchief was an outdated and negative portrayal of African-American women. During the 1950s and '60s the trademark was gradually modernized, with the most recent changes being made in 1989.

Today, Aunt Jemima's face beams from beneath a full head of dark hair -- sans kerchief -- but her sparkling eyes and warm smile remain the same."

BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 17:16:38
quote:
Originally posted by Parses6

http://www.hollyeats.com/ChinksSteaks.htm
The same thing happened here in Philly to a place called Chink's Steaks named in the 1940's for the owners nickname. The Asian-American community never raised a fuss (apparantly they have better things to do with their time), but the liberal activist groups started protesting about a year ago. Last I heard the owners were sticking to their name and told the liberal hypocrites to go to hell.


Once again I am stymied by the apparent need of some folks to do the name calling thing. Please, I'm begging you, explain to me why you assume the protesters are liberal (for that matter, just what does the term "liberal" mean to you? Have you actually looked up the word "liberal" in a dictionary? An objectively written political glossary? Maybe these people who you call "liberal" are something else entirely. In fact. while you're at it, look up the word "conservative". You might be surprised about your own political leanings. To quote that great Libertarian, Bill Maher, "I would love to support the Conservatives, if only they would be.") and, what exactly is hypocritical about their actions.
Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 17:54:04
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:
Originally posted by Parses6

http://www.hollyeats.com/ChinksSteaks.htm
The same thing happened here in Philly to a place called Chink's Steaks named in the 1940's for the owners nickname. The Asian-American community never raised a fuss (apparantly they have better things to do with their time), but the liberal activist groups started protesting about a year ago. Last I heard the owners were sticking to their name and told the liberal hypocrites to go to hell.


Once again I am stymied by the apparent need of some folks to do the name calling thing. Please, I'm begging you, explain to me why you assume the protesters are liberal (for that matter, just what does the term "liberal" mean to you? Have you actually looked up the word "liberal" in a dictionary? An objectively written political glossary? Maybe these people who you call "liberal" are something else entirely. In fact. while you're at it, look up the word "conservative". You might be surprised about your own political leanings. To quote that great Libertarian, Bill Maher, "I would love to support the Conservatives, if only they would be.") and, what exactly is hypocritical about their actions.


I understand what you're saying BT about assumptions. Of which, I too, have been trying to expell people from using. However, let's be clear about the dictionary. There is a difference between one who is liberal, and a Liberal. There is also a difference between one who is conservative and a Conservative. Not the same definition.

Be sure to use the dictionary correctly when finding information. The capital letter is key as to the meaning of the word. Don't confuse liberal with a Liberal (n) or conservative with a Conservative (n).





V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 18:49:19
Nuke the unborn gay whales and piss off a whole bunch of folks. March on Madison, Wisconsin in favor of stronger coffee, march on Charleston, SC in favor of smaller shrimp and march in Houston, Texas in favor of beans in your chili....who cares?
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 20:03:45
Scorereader, just a quick point of order: I got nothing against BT, I'm sure BT is a fine individual, BUT, I ain't BT. Did you mean BR or did I miss something?
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/27 20:30:05
quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader
I understand what you're saying BT about assumptions. Of which, I too, have been trying to expell people from using. However, let's be clear about the dictionary. There is a difference between one who is liberal, and a Liberal. There is also a difference between one who is conservative and a Conservative. Not the same definition.

Be sure to use the dictionary correctly when finding information. The capital letter is key as to the meaning of the word. Don't confuse liberal with a Liberal (n) or conservative with a Conservative (n).


You're absolutely right Scorereader. The problem with conservatives (note the lower case) is that they seem to lack the ability to make that distinction. In fact, by blurring the distinction and lumping them all together, it would appear to serve their overall purpose of vilifying both liberals and Liberals.

There is a simple solution: find better, more distinctive and accurate labels.

The great Chicago journalist, Mike Royko, coined the term "goo-goos", sort of a twisted, slangy interpretation of "do-gooder" when speaking of liberals (note the lower case).

Current etymological trends among Liberal and middle of the road pundits have led us to the term "neo-con chicken hawks" when referring to conservatives.

If I may offer an opinion here, the difference, in both instances, between the upper and lower case interpretations of these political ideologies is that the upper case version is based on thoughtful reason, careful consideration of facts, and the realization that nobody benefits from an absolute unbending hardline view. The lower case interpretation on the other hand is based on a knee-jerk reaction to the everyday realities presented by an ever-changing, sometimes scary world.
unalaskawoman
Hamburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 03:13:03
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what a "trolling question" is. I asked the question because I was actually hoping someone could explain it to me. I'm obviously not as politically savvy as others on this forum. Perhaps there should be a test of some kind to weed out rubes like me. It was mighty kind of you to enlighten this poor, dumb Alaskan with your suggestions. I should have known I was way out of my league.
unalaskawoman
Hamburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 03:23:31
I should clarify, my post is in response to Scorereader, but (once again, showing my ignorance) I didn't know how to do the quote thing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - Scorereader on 01/27/2006 15:34:18
MacTAC
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 03:52:13
quote:
Originally posted by fpczyz

well Scott as predicted here they come.............. break out the old rubber boots it's going to get a little putrid in here and you'll soon be up to your butt in Liberal crap.............. Our job here is done Scott lets move on. Making fun of Liberals is fine but to drag these poor mentally ill folks through the mud by associating them with intelligent thought is no longer fun...... these are truly sick people.
What swill...
trudyn
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 11:46:44
quote:
Originally posted by unalaskawoman

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what a "trolling question" is. I asked the question because I was actually hoping someone could explain it to me. I'm obviously not as politically savvy as others on this forum. Perhaps there should be a test of some kind to weed out rubes like me. It was mighty kind of you to enlighten this poor, dumb Alaskan with your suggestions. I should have known I was way out of my league.
A trolling question can best be described as a question intended to elicit angry, emotional, even enraged responses from people on an online board.
mr chips
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 12:31:52
Sambo is a term that has been used to denigrate African- Americans. I would dislike a restaurant called Kike's Place, there was a restaurant here in Portland called Coon's Chicken and I can't imagine a place with the N-word in the title.
The Sambo story is not the problem, the usage history of the word Sambo is. Call the restaurant another name that does not have a history of being a racial slur.
MilwFoodlovers
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/28 14:33:58
I graduated high school in 1965. I am an enrolled tribal member of the Bad River Band Of The Lake Superior Chippewa tribe. My high school was Milwaukee's Custer. Our sports teams were knick-named the "Indians" and our logo was a Plains Indian with a full headress. I never felt anyone was honoring me, but in those days one didn't complain. Later the name came under attack and some school board member claimed the school wasn't named after the famous murderer of Native elders and infants but some obscure someone who we never heard of before (or since ). Nonetheless the knick-name was changed and the howling from some former alums about caving in to political correctness and losing their "heritage" (the Custer Indians? please spare me) was pathetic. I seem to hear some of these arguments used today vis-a-vis Confederate flags and now Sambo's. Grow up folks, it's the 21st century and time to move on past ignorant embracing of names whose time has thankfully left.
laststandchili
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/01/31 08:58:05
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

Frank, I thought better of you up to this moment. Good healthy political disagreement, when it is based on fact, reason, and ethics, is an important part of our American heritage. My point here with Scott's ramblings (and I'll continue my critique in a fresh post) is that they contain none of the above.

Your most recent post is a low, name calling cop-out. I certainly acknowledge that there is more than one valid opinion around here (neo-cons call it wishy-washy). So let's hear yours in a thoughtful, well reasoned argument.

Just to give you a little idea of who you're dealing with, my political leanings tend to drift toward both the Liberal and the Libertarian point of view. Yes, people should be responsible for their own actions and decisions. But that assumes that everyone lives their lives in a moral, ethical, and just fashion, with no one taking unfair advantage of any other individual or group. As that is not the case, we need some level of government intervention to make sure that the lowest among us are protected and in some cases provided for.

Believe it or not I support the second amendment with just as much zeal as I do the first. The difference between me and the NRA is that I support ALL the words in the second amendment, not just the ones that make my case.

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

As I understand it, the NRA defines "militia" as every man, woman and child who is a citizen of the United States. You know what, I'll give 'em that. No argument. BUT-let's focus on the two words before that, "well-regulated". Well, let's see, I got me a Funk & Wagnalls (no, really) dictionary right here..."regulate, transitive verb, 1.To direct, manage, or control according to certain rules, principles, etc. 2.To adjust according to a standard, degree, etc."

So, a "well-regulated militia" is one that is subject to the management and control of the individual state (the second amendment only prohibits the federal government from sticking their noses into things) based on that state's rules and principles which can be adjusted to meet the needs and requirements of that state based on current standards or degrees. In other words, gun ownership never has been and never should be a free for all.

I also support the rebuilding in Iraq. We went in there, we made a mess, and now it is our moral responsiblity to clean it up. We've established this precedent in almost every conflict since the Civil War. That being said, I also believe that it was George Bush's unstated intent, in an effort to avenge his daddy's attempted murder by Saddam Hussein, to invade Iraq starting back before the 2000 presidential campaign. While I am not ignorant enough or callous enough to suggest that Mr. Bush brought the 9/11 attacks upon us, I would posit that he used that horrible criminal act to propel his own nation building agenda. Had 9/11 not occurred, he would have looked for any opportunity, any motivation for deposing Saddam Hussein. As such, this administration has conducted itself more shamefully, more criminally than any of Bill Clinton's extra-marital dalliances.

My point here is that while I call myself a Liberal, my attitudes and political beliefs are far more complex than the stereotypical characterization that neo-cons love to bandy about. If you're so smart and I'm so wrong, then convince me. I'm an open minded individual capable of seeing more than one point of view when it is intelligently and carefully laid out. If you want to have a political debate in the "Off Topic" forum (if the moderators will kindly allow it), then let's have one. A debate, I mean. Not some cheap shot, name calling barbs that prove nothing and accomplish less.
The NRA doesn't define militia, the US Code does. I can't quote verbatim from memory, but generally the militia is defined as all able bodied males aged 17 to 54(ish), and women who are members of the National Guard. A lot of gun control advocates take the position that the well regulated militia portion of the 2nd amendment refers to the National Guard. This is obviously not the case given the inclusion in the militia only of female guard members.
In terms of being well regulated, I served for several years in the NG after 4 years of active duty, during which time I spend several months training guard troops. I know that many guard units have improved significantly, and served valiantly, given increased deployments and training opportunities, but during my service (87-95), well regulated was not a term I would have used to describe the organizations that I was familiar with.

Vayo con Queso
Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/01 08:53:39
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

Scorereader, just a quick point of order: I got nothing against BT, I'm sure BT is a fine individual, BUT, I ain't BT. Did you mean BR or did I miss something?


yeah, I was responding to your quote, and I meant BR.

Sorry Buddy.
Sorry Bernard

damn typos.
Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/01 09:20:55
Buddy and unalaskawoman:

My response was not an angry one. It was a response to what I consider a naive question regarding what is now called "C/conservativism." Some Democrats, leftists and Liberals use sentences like that to try to show some sort of hypocracy in the Republican view point regarding moral issues and fiscal issues.

I assumed unalaskawoman was either flaming the fire by asking a question that has been "asked" many times before, or if she didn't know the answer, then I told her to contact either of her Senators for the answer about the Republican viewpoint. I'm sure their staffers would be more than happy to send you literature on the subject.

We can all piss at each other. Or, we can talk about food.

I prefer to talk about food and direct those who don't understand the complexity of party issues to the correct source. I'd have answered the same way if someone was questioning why a "liberal" would want so much government involvement in some social issues, but not in others. There's an answer to both questions, that would require a back history that's too long for this food forum.

I could easily give my opinion on the matter, but why do that when one can get all the free literature on the subject one could ever want straight from the ones you are questioning.
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/01 13:57:14
First off we're in total agreement about the food issue. Much more enjoyable and less confrontational (sometimes not) to discuss food here. On the other hand this is the Off-Topic forum so, anything goes.

Please recognize that in a print medium we lack the nuance of inflection that one has when communicating with someone orally. I don't doubt that the intent of your post was not based in anger. However, that is the way unalaskawoman perceived it. My intent, based on my impressions of her posts, was to smooth the waters and avoid losing a new member who, in my opinion, was not trying to make trouble but, was asking what was, in her mind, a legitimate question.

As for the question itself, I agree it was awkwardly worded so that it might be construed as a flame. Frankly, I think the best way to address any hot button issue is to carefully consider what you want to say and make your statement. Have facts and logic at the ready, put them into a cohesive form and let fly. As I said in one of my responses to fpczyz, "If you're so smart and I'm so wrong, convince me. I'm an open minded individual capable of seeing more than one point of view when it is intelligently and carefully laid out."

Anyway, like you I'm tired of talking about this. Let's get back to the food. In fact, how about coming to Chicago for the Great Italian Beef Tour we're currently putting together. Look for updates here in the Off-Topic forum. We're meeting Sunday to discuss details.
MacTAC
Cheeseburger
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/01 16:45:58
quote:
Originally posted by unalaskawoman

I should clarify, my post is in response to Scorereader, but (once again, showing my ignorance) I didn't know how to do the quote thing.
Hi Unalaskawoman,

You may have already learned, but here is how I do it...

When you want to respond with a quote, click on the icon that looks like a sheet of paper with a little curved arrow.

In the message box, select the text you DON'T want to quote (click to place the cursor or insertion point at the beginning and drag to the end, release the mouse button) and press your delete key. I usually leave all the stuff inside the formatting parentheses but especially the (quote) at the start of the quote and the (quote) at the end of the quote.

Type your response by clicking after the last (quote). When done with your message, click PREVIEW. If you're happy with what you see, click POST NEW REPLY. If you wish to be notified when someone responds to the topic, check the CHECK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THIS TOPIC. You only need to subscribe once per topic no matter how many times you may respond in the future.

I hope this helps and is correct. I use a Mac so I'm not sure if what I see on my screen is what others see.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/01 21:55:04
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse


As I understand it, the NRA defines "militia" as every man, woman and child who is a citizen of the United States. You know what, I'll give 'em that. No argument. BUT-let's focus on the two words before that, "well-regulated". Well, let's see, I got me a Funk & Wagnalls (no, really) dictionary right here..."regulate, transitive verb, 1.To direct, manage, or control according to certain rules, principles, etc. 2.To adjust according to a standard, degree, etc."

So, a "well-regulated militia" is one that is subject to the management and control of the individual state (the second amendment only prohibits the federal government from sticking their noses into things) based on that state's rules and principles which can be adjusted to meet the needs and requirements of that state based on current standards or degrees. In other words, gun ownership never has been and never should be a free for all.


I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but you understand it incorrectly. First of all, the NRA does not define it at all. The NRA supports it.

Here is Title 10 of the United States Code:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Second, it is clear that you do not understand the words "well-regulated" as they were used prior to, at the time of, and for many years after the amendment was written. From the OED:

1709 -- "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy indications."

1714 -- "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812 -- "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848 -- "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862 -- "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clanndestine proceeding."

1894 -- "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

Well-regulated, as it was used at the time of the writing of the Consitution, and for one hundred years after, referred to something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly and/or functioned as expected.

Now, with this in mind, you have my permission to further your education and realize just exactly how far off you are on this matter.

BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 00:00:00
Well Michael, I cannot thank you enough for your kind permission to add to my education. I think I will reserve judgement as to just who is far off on this matter as of now. Because I abhor knee-jerk reactions, even to condescending remarks like yours, I will do diligent research into the matter (forgive me if I don't blindly take your word) and respond in time.

Until then, have another glass of Lynchburg "water" and take some target practice at the range.

Buddy
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 00:22:05
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

Well Michael, I cannot thank you enough for your kind permission to add to my education. I think I will reserve judgement as to just who is far off on this matter as of now. Because I abhor knee-jerk reactions, even to condescending remarks like yours, I will do diligent research into the matter (forgive me if I don't blindly take your word) and respond in time.

Until then, have another glass of Lynchburg "water" and take some target practice at the range.

Buddy

I have heard there are some idiots who would do as you suggest. I, however, am among the many millions of people who do not partake of adult beverages before or during any periods of time around firearms.
Mosca
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 10:49:44
Re: the original topic, the name "Sambo"....

If it doesn't sell food, then it's a bad idea to use it, regardless of any connotations. You wouldn't call your restaurant "The Salmonella Inn". Or "The Lynching Pad". Or "The KKKafe". "Uncle Tom's" might be a bad choice, and so might "Son of Sam's", "Charlie Manson's", or "BTK's BLTs".

You pretty much want a name that you think the largest number of people would be happy to come to, and also that would not ignite anger in ANY part of your potential clientele.

Deal with the reality of it, not the theory. You can say whatever you want about what people should or shouldn't do or think, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do, and if you call your restaurant chain "Sambo's" they're gonna stay away and picket it.


Tom
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 13:26:41
ex-CUSE me Mr.(?) Mosca but can't you see we're in the middle of a discussion about the second amendment?!? Who do yo think you are coming in here trying to get the thread back on topic? Yeesh, some people...

XXOO,

Buddy

p.s. M.H., I was awake for most of the night formulating a response. I know, you probably don't care. That's okay. Sadly I am going out of town on business for a couple days and will be without benefit of internet till late Friday night. Check back after that; it'll be a corker.

b.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 14:22:45
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

ex-CUSE me Mr.(?) Mosca but can't you see we're in the middle of a discussion about the second amendment?!? Who do yo think you are coming in here trying to get the thread back on topic? Yeesh, some people...

XXOO,

Buddy

p.s. M.H., I was awake for most of the night formulating a response. I know, you probably don't care. That's okay. Sadly I am going out of town on business for a couple days and will be without benefit of internet till late Friday night. Check back after that; it'll be a corker.

b.

Bring it on.
Mosca
Filet Mignon
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 14:55:22


Scorereader
Sirloin
RE: 'Sambo's'& Other Political Ranting 2006/02/02 18:15:31
quote:
Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

First off we're in total agreement about the food issue. Much more enjoyable and less confrontational (sometimes not) to discuss food here. On the other hand this is the Off-Topic forum so, anything goes.

Please recognize that in a print medium we lack the nuance of inflection that one has when communicating with someone orally. I don't doubt that the intent of your post was not based in anger. However, that is the way unalaskawoman perceived it. My intent, based on my impressions of her posts, was to smooth the waters and avoid losing a new member who, in my opinion, was not trying to make trouble but, was asking what was, in her mind, a legitimate question.

As for the question itself, I agree it was awkwardly worded so that it might be construed as a flame. Frankly, I think the best way to address any hot button issue is to carefully consider what you want to say and make your statement. Have facts and logic at the ready, put them into a cohesive form and let fly. As I said in one of my responses to fpczyz, "If you're so smart and I'm so wrong, convince me. I'm an open minded individual capable of seeing more than one point of view when it is intelligently and carefully laid out."

Anyway, like you I'm tired of talking about this. Let's get back to the food. In fact, how about coming to Chicago for the Great Italian Beef Tour we're currently putting together. Look for updates here in the Off-Topic forum. We're meeting Sunday to discuss details.


beef...chicago...must stop myself from drooling.