coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN??

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christayah
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coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Sun, 06/12/05 11:24 PM
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Hey everyone, I'm chris and this is my first post. ANY INFO ON coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in michigan would be great. If this is a crazy question and there are no such places in michigan, you can let me know that too. thanks, chris

BT
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Sun, 06/12/05 11:28 PM
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What is the fascination with COAL-fired ovens? Here in CA, WOOD-fired ovens are fairly common and I'd assume there are some of those in Michigan. But coal? I'd think the flavor of wood would be preferable. At least that's what people argued in the thread on charcoal and it makes sense to me.

Tony Bad
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 12:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BT

What is the fascination with COAL-fired ovens? Here in CA, WOOD-fired ovens are fairly common and I'd assume there are some of those in Michigan. But coal? I'd think the flavor of wood would be preferable. At least that's what people argued in the thread on charcoal and it makes sense to me.


A coal fired oven is much hotter and the results are notably different. Which is better is a matter of taste, but there is a difference. The places I like best in New York and New Haven are places that use coal. I seem to recall a prior conversation about this coal vs. wood thing, and someone suggested coal ovens may not be allowed in California. I don't know if that is true or not.

BT
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 2:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tony Bad

quote:
Originally posted by BT

What is the fascination with COAL-fired ovens? Here in CA, WOOD-fired ovens are fairly common and I'd assume there are some of those in Michigan. But coal? I'd think the flavor of wood would be preferable. At least that's what people argued in the thread on charcoal and it makes sense to me.


A coal fired oven is much hotter and the results are notably different. Which is better is a matter of taste, but there is a difference. The places I like best in New York and New Haven are places that use coal. I seem to recall a prior conversation about this coal vs. wood thing, and someone suggested coal ovens may not be allowed in California. I don't know if that is true or not.


I don't think they are forbidden, just extremely inconvenient since there's no ready supply of coal and to burn it, you have to have a place to store it etc etc.

I have trouble understanding the heat issue as well. I am certain that there must be an ideal temperature for cooking pizza. I think it's somewhere around 500 to 550 degrees. I don't see why a wood-fired oven couldn't reach that temperature.

BT
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 3:02 AM
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Here is an exerpt from a discussion of pizza ovens at: http://www.pizzaovens.com/specifications/messages/Choosingrightoven.htm
quote:
Now that you are familiar with the different styles of ovens, let's look at the different ways you can cook with them. There are several different fuel sources to choose from; wood, gas, coal, electric or infrared.

First, let's look at wood-fired ovens. Pizzas cooked in wood-fired ovens look and can taste different and are generally darker in color than those cooked in other styles of ovens. Partly because they absorb some of the smoke, depending on the type of wood used, and the bottom crusts tend to be a little crispier because of the intense heat of the cooking stone. Cleaning is easier, too. You can use an ash pan to collect ashes throughout the day, but most are burned away go out the flue. At the end of the night, simply spread the embers across the deck and remove what ashes are left the next morning.

Select the proper wood for cooking. The most popular choices are oak, almond and walnut, but cherry and apple are good choices, too. Never use pine unless you want your pizza to taste like lumber. The wood must also be seasoned properly. Green wood doesn't burn as hot. You can expect to burn around one and a half cords per month at an average of $350/cord if you run the oven 10 hours a day. Because they take longer to heat, it is usually necessary to keep them fired, even at night. Because they need separate venting, check with the manufacturer about venting requirements if you are considering a wood-fired oven. You will also need to start preheating the oven one to two hours before starting to cook.

As mentioned, this style of oven requires more skill from the cook, but with the right person, the results can be perfect pizzas. You can expect to produce around 100 pizzas per hour and can fit about 12 to 13 12-inch pizzas in the oven at one time. The last consideration is the weight. These ovens tend to be very heavy, which can be a problem without the proper floor support. Coal-fired ovens have many of the same traits as wood-fired ovens. The difference here is you need to have a supplier for coal.


I also found the following which supports what Tony Bad is saying:

quote:
Coal-Fired Pizza Oven history
In Italy, pizza is traditionally made in a wood-burning oven, but when immigrants from southern Italy came to New York in the late 19th century, they found that the cheapest and most plentiful fuel was coal. The intense heat of the coal oven was as close as you can get to Neapolitan- style pizza, with its soft, bread like crust and lightly cooked toppings, crisp and slightly charred, with the tomato and cheese clinging to the thin crust.

What distinguishes coal ovens from those burning gas or wood is their heat. The intense heat of the oven gives the dough a crisp, fine-textured crust, slightly charred on the underside. Toppings cook almost instantly, and everything gets infused with the distinctive aroma that only comes from coal.

It’s coal that runs the ovens of New York and New Haven Connecticut’s most hallowed pizza parlors. In New York there are Patsy's, Lombardi's, John's, Arturo's, and in Brooklyn, Totonno's and Grimaldi's. In New Haven there are Pepe’s, The Spot, Sallye’s and Modern. Although Lombardi's on Spring Street is the oldest coal-oven pizzeria (1905). It is Patsy's on First Avenue and 117th Street that has spawned the most offspring.

Three of the four coal-oven pizzerias on Long Island have some connection to Patsy's, all of them through the original Patsy's nephew, Patsy Grimaldi. Hear is a time line of how it all went.


The full text is at http://www.pipizza.com/travel/favorites/coal_ovens.html

But it still isn't obvious to me that coal is superior to wood--just different--and apparently wood-fired, done properly, is the authentic Italian method (but I have to admit that's one good-looking pizza down below).


UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 3:45 AM
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I'm not sure on any Coal fired ones, but there's a few wood fired ones in Grand Rapids..

Tony Bad
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 9:00 AM
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quote:

But it still isn't obvious to me that coal is superior to wood--just different--and apparently wood-fired, done properly, is the authentic Italian method (but I have to admit that's one good-looking pizza down below).


This is true. Pizza from coal fired ovens often has a charred or blackened crust, which my wife refers to as burned. She reminds me that if I ordered a steak and it arrived so burned and charred I'd send it back. I like that charred crust, but clearly that isn't everyones cup of tea.

Extreme Glow
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 4:10 PM
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In your best Homer Simpson voice... Ummmm, coal soot.

BTW, isn't coal just wood that's a bit older?

Tony Bad
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Mon, 06/13/05 4:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Extreme Glow

In your best Homer Simpson voice... Ummmm, coal soot.

BTW, isn't coal just wood that's a bit older?


...and been under a lot of pressure!

christayah
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Sat, 06/18/05 4:06 PM
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There is a difference between coal and wood fired pizza... i think somone posted that it will become charred or burned... YUM.... do i really have to fly out to NY for a day just to give my tastebuds a field day?? i guess if there is a good wood fired place in the detroit area it will have to do for now... thanks for the posts guys even though they DID go a LITTLE off topic

UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Wed, 06/22/05 11:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by christayah

There is a difference between coal and wood fired pizza... i think somone posted that it will become charred or burned... YUM.... do i really have to fly out to NY for a day just to give my tastebuds a field day?? i guess if there is a good wood fired place in the detroit area it will have to do for now... thanks for the posts guys even though they DID go a LITTLE off topic


There was a topic a few months ago where I think it may have been Alesrus built a brick oven outdoors.. You may try to do a search on that... Fire it up with coal on the side vs. wood... Nothing beats a do it yourself project that you can fire up on a whim and enjoy!

UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Wed, 06/22/05 11:30 PM
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Sorry bout that... It wasn't Alesrus.. It was Chef Susans ol man... Here's the link to the topic: http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5401

RC51Mike
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Thu, 06/23/05 6:55 PM
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Uncle Vic, I'll be at Grattan Raceway next week. Anywhere special I should try to visit in the area if I can get away, including wood fired pizza? Ate at the Timbers just west of there last year and thought it was great.

mousec
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Thu, 06/23/05 7:38 PM
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I just had my first coal oven pizza (John's) last week in NY. It was very good, although I have also had very good pizza made in a traditional oven. I think what it comes down to is not necesarily the heating element but the quality of the crust and the ingredients that go on it.

UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Fri, 06/24/05 1:18 AM
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Ok, I'm not sure on how far you want to drive RC51Mike, but from the track, if you go south on Lessiter Rd to where it ends, take a right (going west) on Old Belding Road. The Grattan Bar (11817 Old Belding Road NE (616)691-8221)will be just a few feet down on the North Side. Now if you go further down Old Belding to Belding Road (M44), you can take a right (going west) and a few miles down the road you come across the Bostwick Lake Inn (8521 Belding Road, (616)874-7290). They serve some pretty good food there, but it's midline priced. Now if you want to go further west and drive into Downtown Rockford, I suggest the Corner Bar! Bring your appetite with ya! If you can eat 20 of their dogs in 4 hours, the dogs are on the house... (31 N. Main St (616)866-9866) or www.rockfordcornerbar.com



One other place I can think of that you might enjoy would be the Honey Creek Inn (8000 Canonsburg Rd (616)874-7849). When you turn right onto Belding Rd (M44) as mentioned above off Old Belding, go west to Ramsdell Drive (Gas station on the SW corner, Pizza Shop on the NW corner) take a left and go south. After about 3 miles of driving it will come to an end. Take a right (going west) on Cannonsburg Road. It's a 3 or 4 hundred feet down just past the fire station on the north side.

As for wood fired pizzas, I cant think of any in that neck of the woods, but will do a little investigating.. (Closest one I can think of is at Rose's on Reeds Lake in East Grand Rapids, but thats a good 20 mile drive from where you're at)..

RC51Mike
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Fri, 06/24/05 9:34 AM
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Thanks. I'll see what I can do. I have been to the Grattan Bar where you can get potatoes au Grattan.

UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Fri, 06/24/05 1:49 PM
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Good Luck Mike! I did find one place in Rockford that serves wood fired pizza. I never ate there so cant personally vouch for them... http://www.marinadespizzabistro.com/images/food-menu/marinades-menu-download.pdf

Rapunzll
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Fri, 06/24/05 3:27 PM
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I know this isn't exactly what you are looking for, but there is a wood fired pizza over at a place called Tostis in Stevensville and one at a pizza place in Petoskey, but I don't know the name of that place. I called a brick oven pizza place in Elk Rapids (Chips Brick Oven Pizza), which is about 20 minutes north of Traverse City, where I live. His is gas fired, he said, unless a place has been around for a long time, the state will allow no new coal fired pizza ovens.


rbpalmer
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Tue, 07/5/05 11:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BT

What is the fascination with COAL-fired ovens? Here in CA, WOOD-fired ovens are fairly common and I'd assume there are some of those in Michigan. But coal? I'd think the flavor of wood would be preferable. At least that's what people argued in the thread on charcoal and it makes sense to me.


I thought this too, until three weeks ago, when my wife and I spent a weekend in NYC for our twentieth anniverary. We ate at John's Pizzeria. http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=656 I have had very good pizzas from brick, wood-fired ovens here in the Washington, DC area and elsewhere, but the crust of John's pizza had a delicious, "smoky" flavor that I have not found anywhere else, and that I can only attribute to being prepared in a coal-fired oven. I don't know how widespread the use of coal-fired pizza ovens is, but if its primarily a New York-area thing, this may account for the seeming inability of New York-area posters to find comparable pizzas elsewhere.

sassy9975
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Thu, 09/8/05 5:15 PM
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The one in Petoskey that Rapunzll might be referring to is probably Galley Gourmet in Bay Harbor (a community in Petoskey). I just looked at their menu and it says their brick oven is "stone fired". Not sure what that means but their pizza are great!

crusty
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Sun, 10/7/07 1:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by christayah

Hey everyone, I'm chris and this is my first post. ANY INFO ON coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in michigan would be great. If this is a crazy question and there are no such places in michigan, you can let me know that too. thanks, chris
Why yes there is a pizza place in michigan with a coal oven.Tomatoes pizza in Farmington just installed their oven less than a month ago.They are still learning how to use it.Tomatoes takes their pizza making knowledge from PePe's and Sally's in Connecticut.

UncleVic
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RE: coal fired brick oven pizza anywhere in MICHIGAN?? - Fri, 02/22/08 5:18 PM
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Crusty... Just saw a mention on Slice about Tomatoes Apizza:
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2008/02/tomatoes-apizza-pizzeria-coal-oven-pizza-in-michigan.html

Scroll down in the above review to read the story.. Owner must love his job, here's a small part of the article:
The five ton "Goliath," made from brick with an aluminum shell, is the largest shippable oven in the world. Not only was the expense "absurd," Weinstein admits the oven is completely impractical. He has to wake up earlier than ever and spend two hours stoking the temperature to a perfect 1900 degrees.