Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law

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ScreenBear
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Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 3:04 AM
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As a Hot Dog fancier, it really sticks in my craw when a purveyor of the Noble Frankfurter fails or refuses to identify the brand of Hot Dog he or she is selling. I always want to know. It’s what I do. I also want to know the size, but I won’t push it.

Actually, it all seems a little Medieval in this Age of Information…hiding what kind of food product you expect us to ingest. I mean, it has been a while since Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle.” Some sellers even get angry if you ask…like there’s some unwritten code of the Hot Dog Fraternity against giving away the secret.

On the other hand, many proudly display what type they sell. It’s more often than not good for business. They’re proud of their offering, maybe pay a little extra for the brand name recognition, and are glad to associate with it. It’s what the vendor’s umbrella is all about. It’s shouting out, “Look, I sell Sabrett, or Vienna Beef, or Hebrew National, or Best’s, etc. I’m a Good Guy. It’s All Good. I’ve Nothing to Hide!”

When a seller of Tube Steaks is secretive, or looks askance when I dare ask what it is I’m about to purchase for consumption, I’m put off. The brand might be fine. But just the fact that they don’t care to take me into their trust is a turn off. What else shouldn’t I know?

It’s just good form to be open and above board when dealing with foodstuffs. Though, admittedly, for me the interest is also academic. Whereas Henry Higgins could tell a person’s geography by their dialect, I like to dabble in the descent of the dog...its heritage, lineage, and content of character. And knowing from whence emanates a Frankfurter is key to honing that knowledge.

On a much more basic plane, some folks don’t eat pork; others don’t eat beef, etc. There are dietary considerations of every variation. Hence, it is my contention there ought to be a law. If I ask what brand of hot dog you sell, you have to tell me true.

Do you agree, or would you prefer the seller keeps it to himself?
The Bear





jeepguy
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 8:26 AM
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I think that's pushing it a bit.What about the bun,condiments,potato grower etc?Actually most places around here have some info posted or if they don't i doubt they'd keep it a secret even if they buy at Aldi.[|)]

wheregreggeats.com
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 8:35 AM
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I get miffed when they have a sign or an umbrella or something that is branded (this happens often with Vienna Beef) and they don't sell the product at all.

Don't put ups a VB graphic and not have the condiments.

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 10:11 AM
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I, too, always want to know the brand of hot dog served at a hot dog restaurant or any place serving hot dogs. I have had many experiences trying to find out. Sometimes the person I speak with willingly gives the information. Sometimes they don't even know. That's when I'll ask for a manager or owner. Many times I'm told that they make their own hot dogs. 99% of the time, this is a lie. I've also been told that it's none of my business. Well, I'm eating it; I'd like to know. I've been told "It's a commercial brand." Well, which one? I've also been told that the reason for not divulging the brand is that if I knew where they got their dogs, I could get them for myself, and they would lose my business. Or that they don't want to tell me because I may be a potential competitor looking to open my own business.

This is a tough call. As someone who loves hot dogs, I very much like to know the identity of the dog, it's size, casing, etc. But I can see the owner's side of it too. I've had a hard time finding out where some places get their dogs. And when I've finally found out, I've been told "Ok, you know. But you won't be able to get them for yourself." More often then not, this is untrue. It may be hard, but if you try, you can usually get any dog that you want. Thumann's dogs for deep frying are hard to get, but if you know someone at a pizzeria that serves Thumann's coldcuts for their subs, you can usually persuade them to order the dogs from the Thumann's distributor, and then pay the pizzeria owner.

The Galloping Hill Inn uses a dog from Grote & Weigel that is different than the standard Grote & Weigel Griddle Frank. GHI had G&W make this frank for them based on a recipe from a local butcher shop that used to provide these dogs for them. GHI is the only place that serves this particular dog, but you can get it from Grote & Weigel's N.J. distributor if you are willing to buy 5 lbs.

There are ways to find out the identity of a brand if you really want to know. Ask former (or even current) employees. Look in the trash bin for discarded boxes. Sometimes, if you frequent a place enough, you might be there when they get their shipment.

I like finding out information when someone has been particularly nasty to me, and then going back and telling them that I found out anyway. And refusing to tell them how I found out. Another way is to call a hot dog maker like Marathon or Grote & Weigel and telling them that you are interested in purchasing a quantity of hot dogs. They will think that you represent a business and will be more open to discuss who they provide dogs to. This is how I found out that Papaya King, Gray's, and Katz's all use the same recipe Sabrett dog (although Katz's is slightly larger).

Someone once asked me to help find out who makes the dogs for the Brooklyn Diner. Although named Brooklyn, it is actually located in Manhattan, and is known for their giant 15 bite hot dog. I spoke to the owners with no sucess. The most I could get out of him was that the dog was made in N.Y. I called a few places (Marathon, Stahl Meyer, Golden D) and said that I was thinking about opening my own place and inquired about their dogs and who they had as customers. The guy at Golden D quickly rattled off some places that served his dog. Brooklyn Diner was one.

People think I'm nuts for doing this, but sometimes curiosity gets the better of you. Especially when someone tells you that you can't find out and/or challenges you to do so.

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 10:37 AM
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One reason given for not providing the brand name is that the proprietor wants to convey that theirs is the only place where you can get this particular hot dog.

ohman
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 11:27 AM
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If they ask tell them...no biggie. If you are willing to pay enough you can get any dog anywhere.

berndog
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 12:26 PM
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I can't get too upset with somone not divulging their brand of hotdog. To me, it's the same as asking for their special hot sauce recipe, or asking for the chef's recipe for a special dish at a more upscale restaurant. I don't think anyone would expect to get that information. If they want to treat the hot dog brand information as a "trade secret", that's their choice.

dreamzpainter
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 1:30 PM
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Personally.... I don't really care what brand dog I'm devouring from a cart/stand (at home its always ikes) even the skinniest least tasty dog comes to life under a blanket of mustard, relish, onions and kraut or slaw and hots.. guess my palate just isn't discerning enough..

myway
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 2:29 PM
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This is kind of a tough one. But some of the owners here in the midwest do not divulge what brand they are using because these brands are widely availiable. Some owners do try to keep the secret squirrel thing going in an attempt to pass off they're product as being special, and only availiable there. They're are some who use the very cheapest disgusting hot dog they can get. So when asked they don't want to tell they're inquiring customer that in essence they are selling trash dogs. Chili, coney sauce, or any of the other regional toppings may need to be safeguarded somewhat. But I believe the hot dog itself should be of decent quality. Give the people value and they will return. I wonder if hot dog brands fall under the freedom of imformation act?

garryd451
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 3:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

I get miffed when they have a sign or an umbrella or something that is branded (this happens often with Vienna Beef) and they don't sell the product at all.

Don't put ups a VB graphic and not have the condiments.


I agree don't put up any signs,graphics, posters and/or etc if You don't have that brand or item. And I am including condimentsd, sides, and etc.

Top
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 5:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by myway

I wonder if hot dog brands fall under the freedom of imformation act?


Label them 'terrorist food', and then you can tap the vendor's phone.....
Top

garryd451
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 10:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Top

quote:
Originally posted by myway

I wonder if hot dog brands fall under the freedom of imformation act?


Label them 'terrorist food', and then you can tap the vendor's phone.....
Top


Just call it watergate and You can tap it.

UncleVic
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 11:07 PM
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I dont see what the big secrecy over their brand of dog would be... Unless they're sellin a GFS or Sysco 10/1 that they maybe pay a dime each for.. If I serve a good product, I'd like to let it be known! Quality products make for a nice marketing tool.. But I was going to suggest the trash bin inspection, but Mr. Fox already beat me to that one... (Dont open the bags, just look for the boxes tossed in alongside)...

UncleVic
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 02/19/06 11:10 PM
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Oh ya, I had one local place here that I was trying to get info on.. All they would respond to is that they use 12/1 dogs... I never would have guessed, but they do load them up with toppings pretty good.. Never did get an answer to the brand though... Must not be a good brand if the dog needs to be buried so deep... (Yet I love em)...




myway
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 02/20/06 2:53 PM
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Thats what gets served around here most of the time. The Gordons Food Service 10/1 dogs, or the 8/1 dogs...for shame. Some are using Emgee hot dogs. You ever seen an Emgee 8/1 dog after it has been in the steamer for a bit? I am not proud of this, but one time a few years ago I was set up at a parade. I was using Bar S hot dogs. After a very short time the hot dogs began turning a pale grey, and even green color. I had to sell them. I was so ashamed of my dogs that I swore I would never sell another sub standard dog again in my life. It was my first time out with my cart, I did not know what I was doing. My wife urged me to use cheap dogs since I was just starting out. Never again. I told her I would close it before I would do that ever. She still prods me to use cheap dogs. Not happening, I learned my lesson well.

ellen4641
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 02/21/06 12:00 AM
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Today, I stumbled upon a new hot dog joint that opened in Forked River , NJ
exit 74 off Garden State Parkway....

it's called Chunky's...

Well, MY pet peeve is when I ask the teenage type kid behind the counter "Are your hot dogs all beef?!", and they look at me like I have 3 heads.....

I believe that if you own a hot dog joint, you should educated your help . The most he could answer me is "well, it's Thumann's"

Then I realized I saw the Thumanns emblem on the wall, and did my own concluding.....that any Thumanns dog I've seen in the store has had pork in it.

I really prefer all beef hot dogs, so I just ordeed a fountain soda to get my caffeine rush, used their bathroom ,and left...

and that's my hot dog story of the day !




Ashphalt
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 02/21/06 11:13 AM
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I'm not so concerned over choosing not to divulge a supplier. In my experience it's not uncommon for a good dog joint to have their dogs made to their specs and chosen recipe. So while it may be made by a known local supplier with a store brand, it's not the same dog you will get at the restaurant, and they may prefer to avoid confusion. Of course, if you call the supplier they are likely to say they supply those dogs to build their own image.

On the other hand, not providing servers or, at least cook staff, with basic ingredient information is asking for trouble. But in my area, it's pretty safe to assume that if they don't say all beef, they aren't.

jimcor
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 02/21/06 6:54 PM
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Sorry, I don't eat pork products. Just doesn't agree with me, no big deal. So if you can't tell me your dog is all beef I won't buy it. Simple as that. You don't have to tell me the brand, but I would like to know, just for the heck of it.

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 02/21/06 8:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ellen4641

Today, I stumbled upon a new hot dog joint that opened in Forked River , NJ
exit 74 off Garden State Parkway....

it's called Chunky's...

Well, MY pet peeve is when I ask the teenage type kid behind the counter "Are your hot dogs all beef?!", and they look at me like I have 3 heads.....

I believe that if you own a hot dog joint, you should educated your help . The most he could answer me is "well, it's Thumann's"

Then I realized I saw the Thumanns emblem on the wall, and did my own concluding.....that any Thumanns dog I've seen in the store has had pork in it.

I really prefer all beef hot dogs, so I just ordeed a fountain soda to get my caffeine rush, used their bathroom ,and left...

and that's my hot dog story of the day !






Thumann's also makes an all beef dog. This one comes in a yellow and orange package rather than the blue and white.

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 6:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashphalt

In my experience it's not uncommon for a good dog joint to have their dogs made to their specs and chosen recipe.


I would have to disagree. Although it's done, it is very rare. Many places claim to have a special blend or special recipe, but they are lying. Many hot dog joints want you to believe that their product is unique, and that you can only get it there. Papaya King, Gray's Papaya, and Katz's all claim that their dogs are made from proprietary recipes, but they are all the same basic Sabrett dog. I've also heard that Pink's in LA claims to use a special recipe Hoffy dog, but it is in fact the same dog that you can get in the Supermarket. I've spoken to people in the industry who have said that although they make dogs in different sizes and either natural casing or skinless, they usually have the same recipe, and that it is much tougher and more labor intensive to make a special recipe for different customers. Sabrett has 2 recipes; an all beef and a beef and pork. Thumann's has 3; all beef, beef/pork, and one for deep frying. Best's has just one. And from what I understand, Vienna Beef has one for foodservice (vendors) and one for supermarkets.

The few times a hot dog manufacturer will make a special recipe dog would be when a place has such a huge demand that it would be worth it. An example of this is the Galloping Hill Inn in Union. Their dogs used to be supplied by a small butcher shop. The GHI wanted their dogs made by a larger meat producer. So they looked around. Many places, including Marathon (Sabrett) were willing to make dogs for the GHI using the recipe from the butcher shop. GHI finally picked Grote & Weigel to make provide dogs for them. And G&W is making the recipe according to Galloping Hill's specifications. Which is that it is the same recipe that was used when they were being made at the butcher shop. GHI sells thousands of dogs a day.

ohman
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 8:22 AM
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You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.

garryd451
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 9:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ohman

You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.


We have a Mom and Pop place here in Niles, that has a Friday Night Steak Fry, when people ask the owner what she puts on her steaks that makes them so good, she says that is our "secret Marimate". End of Converstion, she smiles and walks away!!!

ohman
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 3:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by garryd451

quote:
Originally posted by ohman

You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.


We have a Mom and Pop place here in Niles, that has a Friday Night Steak Fry, when people ask the owner what she puts on her steaks that makes them so good, she says that is our "secret Marimate". End of Converstion, she smiles and walks away!!!


I think there are plenty of places like that so I am starting to think if you want to hide the brand of dog you sell it is ok. Bottom line is if it's bad they wont be back.

UncleVic
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 4:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ohman

You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.


I dont see how you can compare ones proprietory sauce recipe to a name brand hotdog.. Same goes with chili sauce on hot dogs.. Most people have their own variation of spices which makes them unique, not the brand of dog they use..

garryd451
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 4:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleVic

quote:
Originally posted by ohman

You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.


I dont see how you can compare ones proprietory sauce recipe to a name brand hotdog.. Same goes with chili sauce on hot dogs.. Most people have their own variation of spices which makes them unique, not the brand of dog they use..



Unfortunately, no matter if it's hot dogs, bar b que sause, Coney dog sauce or whatever, there's no law that I know of that says they have to tell us the what is in it, the only choice we have is to go there or not to go there. The problem with this is that it gives people with allergies or other problems no choice excpet not to go.



ohman
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 02/22/06 5:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleVic

quote:
Originally posted by ohman

You know, I have been thinking about this. Let me ask you this. If you ask a BBQ joint for the recipe of the sauce they make they will laugh at you. So why is it ok to keep that a secret and not the brand of dog you sell? I always tell if asked but i am just curious what other people think.


I dont see how you can compare ones proprietory sauce recipe to a name brand hotdog.. Same goes with chili sauce on hot dogs.. Most people have their own variation of spices which makes them unique, not the brand of dog they use..



I dont see how cant see it, it is the same thing. I do not hide my brands but I can see why some might want to.

Kenny da Fat Man
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 02/25/06 6:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ScreenBear


As a Hot Dog fancier, it really sticks in my craw when a purveyor of the Noble Frankfurter fails or refuses to identify the brand of Hot Dog he or she is selling. I always want to know. It’s what I do. I also want to know the size, but I won’t push it.


Bear, I agree...I like to know the brand too, but generally I only ask AFTER I've had the dog and I'm curious about the brand, but I like to keep an unbiased mind when I order and eat. If it turns out bad, I won't be back.

As far as the size...I think the size of a man's hot dog is a private matter

But I know where you're coming from because when I order a brunsweiger or liverwurst sandwich at a deli, I always ask what brand they use, and if they don't know, I send them back to ask. (I only like Boars Head).

So, I can feel your pain my friend!

ScreenBear
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 06/24/06 6:45 PM
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Fellow RoadFooders,
Do you frequent a hot dog place that either, A.---Won't divulge the brand of frank they sell? or, B.---Persists in declaring their dogs are made especially for them from a secret recipe?

If not, which brand does your favorite hot dog haunt serve?
The Bear

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 06/24/06 7:42 PM
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I frequent the Galloping Hill Inn. They serve a delicious German style beef and pork dog and are located down the street. They refuse to divulge the brand, saying to anyone who asks that it is a special recipe beef and pork dog. I know the brand, so have no need to ask. They are one of the few places that have a special recipe dog, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. Originally made by Gaisers (a small butcher shop in Union), Galloping Hill took the recipe and had it made by Grote & Weigel of Conn. This recipe is different than the usual recipe G&W Griddle franks that have Texas Weiner on the box and label and are served at most of the Texas Weiner joints that grill rather than deep fry their dogs. Places like Texas Weiner l and ll, Red Tower, J&G's, and Manny's.

The Old Heidelburg in Keansburg is another place that refuses to divulge the brand, saying that "we use a commercial dog". It's a Haydu beef/pork dog. Sometime in the last 5 years they switched from all beef.

Hot Dog Johnny's is perhaps the most stubborn place around when it comes to disclosing the brand. The cranky woman who owns the place even gave me a hard time when I asked her how the dogs are prepared. She finally gave in when I told her that I have a kid who can't eat fried food. She serves Schmalz skinless beef and pork dogs that are fried in olive oil.

A few places that falsely insist that their dogs are specially made for them are Papaya King and Katz's in New York, and Hobby's deli in Newark. There are others, but none come to mind currently.

festivalfood
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 06/24/06 9:15 PM
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I always ask what brand of dog it is before I order,unless I see a sign or umbrella with a name brand on it.I have not asked in the past and seen the vendor pull some nasty, cheap,"lips and snouts" mushy thing out and place it in the bun,and I don't want to be rude and pay for it ,bravely take a bite and throw the rest out.If a vendor is selling "lips and snouts" dogs,I won't buy a dog, but still order something,chips and a soda,but I won't eat a cheap nasty dog to be nice anymore.I have a friend who does the fair and carnival circuit,and does very well,and takes pride in buying the cheapest ,nastiest dogs he can find and charges top dollar,and laughs when I tell him to use a quality hot dog.It's funny,I won't do that with a sausage and pepper sandwich at an event,I guess you really can't with sausages in most instances,and the number one thing people that I know have gotten sick from at a fair,festival or outdoor event was from eating a bad sausage and pepper sandwich.Unlike hotdogs which are actully cooked already(smoked) sausage is raw and spoils fast if not handled properly and cooked properly.I got sick from one at a carnival about 12 years ago,and some friends and family have also,at different events over the years.I still eat them at events,I just look the operation over a little more carefully,and make sure it's well done,before I eat it.Even after having a bad experience
I find a sausage and pepper sandwich almost irresistable at a fair.I don't find anything wrong with asking what brand of dog a vendor is selling.

RC51Mike
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 06/25/06 9:12 AM
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The false umbrella advertising annoys me. I got a hot dog on my way out of a Home Depot recently that had a Dietz and Watson umbrella but this was no D&W hot dog. A mushy, tasteless Oscar Meyerish abomination. I was already gone by the time I discovered the shameless bait and switch. Next time, I shall boldly confront the purveyor ala John Fox... or dig through their trash.

I just love John's obsession, dedication and contribution to the art and science of hot doggery. He is the superhero of hot dogs. He should be crowned "Super Dawg" or "Super Duper Weiner" if it didn't involve tradename infringement.

guspas
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 07/2/06 4:24 PM
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I have spoken to a few manufacturers of hot dogs and yes they will specially make a dog for you. Now, there is a minimum quantity that must be ordered. Unless you sell alot or have the freezer space, this won't work. I know Superdawg in IL has theirs made unless the rep was lying to me.

John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 07/2/06 6:40 PM
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The rep was lying to you. Superdawg uses a Sinai 48 brand frank made by Best Kosher out of Chicago, not to be confused with Best Provisions out of Newark.

Just recently I went to a place that I've been wanting to visit for a few years. Maui's in Wildwood, N.J. The owner claimed that the dogs were made by them (Maui's). When I was there, I saw no sausage making equipment, so I inquired further and was told that the dogs were not made on premise, but in a nearby pork store by a family member according to the grandfather's secret recipe. I didn't know whether to believe it or not. I tasted the dog and remarked that it was very similar to Hofmann's of Syracuse. This dog is available in my area at Wegmans Supermarkets only. I noticed in an article posted at Maui's that his family was from Syracuse. Coincidence? Curiosity got the better of me (it usually does when it comes to hot dogs) and I contacted someone from Hofmann's. They heard of Maui's and admitted that they have sold them dogs.

Let me be blunt. Most people who claim that they either make their own dogs, or have them made specially for them are lying. They do this to have people think that they are selling something unique that you can only get at their place. But I did say most, not all. The Galloping Hill Inn is one example of a place that has a dog (made by Grote & Weigel of Conn.) made to a different recipe. There are others. But for the most part, hot dog manufacturers, even big ones like Sabrett, make only one or 2 recipes. Sometimes 3. They may make dogs in different sizes, but it is too labor intensive to make a different recipe for each client. The person in charge of private label at Sabrett told me this. If you look at some past posts, I have gone into more detail . Katz's, Papaya King, and Gray's Papaya use the standard recipe Sabrett frank, although Katz's is slightly larger in size. But Katz's and Papaya King both falsely claim that the franks are made specially for them. Katz's sometimes even says that they make the dogs themselves on premise.

jinjo76
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 07/2/06 7:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ScreenBear

Fellow RoadFooders,
Do you frequent a hot dog place that either, A.---Won't divulge the brand of frank they sell? or, B.---Persists in declaring their dogs are made especially for them from a secret recipe?

If not, which brand does your favorite hot dog haunt serve?
The Bear


Vienna Beef were I go.

http://www.hollyeats.com/HotDogHeaven.htm

Jonathan

HankNBugsy
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 07/3/06 3:40 PM
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Does anyone know if Fuddruckers makes their own dogs or uses a particular brand?

ScreenBear
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 07/3/06 5:04 PM
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While I'm not certain about other Fuddruckers, the one on Route #22 West, Bridgewater, New Jersey, prepares a 1/4 lb., all-beef, grilled Kahn's frank, served on a buttered, toasted, New England bun, large enough to accommodate the dog.
The Bear

HankNBugsy
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 07/3/06 6:27 PM
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thanks Screenbear! With the exception of Nathan's, most of our locally available grocery store brands are pretty disgusting.

HankNBugsy
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 07/3/06 7:10 PM
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Not many people know that at the same time Fuddruckers was born there was a similar concept restaurant also opened here in San Antonio called Ackumpuckys, and actually their food was the better of the two. However, Fudd's wanted to grow and franchise and Ackumpuckys was content to be a local hangout. Fudd's sued Ackumpuckys and won, driving Ackumpuckys out of business.

big g in joisey
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Mon, 07/3/06 10:31 PM
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Maybe it's in the way some people are asked,if the person asking is confrontational or pushy,this usually turns most people off,and more than likely you can forget about any info,but,just maybe if you politely ask the vendor/owner after eating something and pay the person a compliment on their product they would be a little more at ease and less suspect to someones questions.

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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 07/4/06 12:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by John Fox

The rep was lying to you. Superdawg uses a Sinai 48 brand frank made by Best Kosher out of Chicago, not to be confused with Best Provisions out of Newark.

Just recently I went to a place that I've been wanting to visit for a few years. Maui's in Wildwood, N.J. The owner claimed that the dogs were made by them (Maui's). When I was there, I saw no sausage making equipment, so I inquired further and was told that the dogs were not made on premise, but in a nearby pork store by a family member according to the grandfather's secret recipe. I didn't know whether to believe it or not. I tasted the dog and remarked that it was very similar to Hofmann's of Syracuse. This dog is available in my area at Wegmans Supermarkets only. I noticed in an article posted at Maui's that his family was from Syracuse. Coincidence? Curiosity got the better of me (it usually does when it comes to hot dogs) and I contacted someone from Hofmann's. They heard of Maui's and admitted that they have sold them dogs.

Let me be blunt. Most people who claim that they either make their own dogs, or have them made specially for them are lying. They do this to have people think that they are selling something unique that you can only get at their place. But I did say most, not all. The Galloping Hill Inn is one example of a place that has a dog (made by Grote & Weigel of Conn.) made to a different recipe. There are others. But for the most part, hot dog manufacturers, even big ones like Sabrett, make only one or 2 recipes. Sometimes 3. They may make dogs in different sizes, but it is too labor intensive to make a different recipe for each client. The person in charge of private label at Sabrett told me this. If you look at some past posts, I have gone into more detail . Katz's, Papaya King, and Gray's Papaya use the standard recipe Sabrett frank, although Katz's is slightly larger in size. But Katz's and Papaya King both falsely claim that the franks are made specially for them. Katz's sometimes even says that they make the dogs themselves on premise.


Mr Fox... Thanks for the info... Though well known to some of us, your info is priceless to others! Marketing ploys, and lies bite the big one.. Good eye on noting places missing the sausage stuffing equipment... Think about it, how many people look? Darn good info there..



John Fox
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 07/4/06 9:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by big g in joisey

Maybe it's in the way some people are asked,if the person asking is confrontational or pushy,this usually turns most people off,and more than likely you can forget about any info,but,just maybe if you politely ask the vendor/owner after eating something and pay the person a compliment on their product they would be a little more at ease and less suspect to someones questions.


This is true to some extent. When I approach someone for information, I am never confrontational. And I fully understand their reasons for "not divulging the dog". Some freely share information, some can be gently persuaded, while others will not tell you anything regardless of how complimentary you are. Even a bribe will get you nowhere. Not that I've tried this. But sometimes you can get information if you seem like you know what you're talking about. For example, there is a hot dog chili that is sold by food distributors and warehouses cqalled Castleberry. A good tasting, tomatoey chili that is used by many hot dog joints that prefer not to make their own. I've had this chili and can recognize when it's served to me. If you were to ask an owner a general question about his chili, he would almost definitely say that it was homemade. Or at the most say that it was "specially made for him". But if you say something in a kind way, such as "Boy this chili is good! I'm glad I found someone who uses Castleberry!" the owner will be more likely to admit it. The first time I thought a chili might be store bought (at the time I had only had Castleberry once or twice) I said something like this, not truly knowing. And the owner told me it was. Admittedly such info is not important to most people. But for some of us, who like certain dogs and want to be able to have the same thing at home, it's good to be able to find out a dog's identity. Or if a chili sauce is available.

HankNBugsy
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 07/4/06 11:32 AM
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okay, ya'll have done me in. I'm craving hot dogs so badly now that I'm about to drive the 30 miles to town to the grocery store!

ScreenBear
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 09/24/06 10:14 AM
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In light of continuing and ever-increasing challenges to our food supply, are there any here who, though previously non-committal, now agree that hot dog vendors should be forthcoming about which brand of hot dog they use?

The Bear

genewj
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 09/24/06 9:57 PM
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I post Sabratt,Best Kosher and Ball Park, will be adding Vienna and all its goodies..
Being in a Snow Bird area we have lots of out of towners
Sarasota and Manatee Counties just completed a study and found that
62% of the snow birds here come from New York, Jersey or Penn. 12-15% from Chicago and mid west area..

genewj
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sun, 09/24/06 10:05 PM
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I sell the tubes in a Real Snow Bird area, Sarasota and Manatee Counties..They just completed a study which shows that 62% of our snow birds come from NY,Jersey, Or Penn. anotyher 12-15% from Chicago,Cinc. and the mid west.. in order to satisfy everyone I sell and post Sabratts,Vienna and all its goodies,Best Kosher and Ball Park..I can tell where folks are from by what they order, a good conversation starter..

ScreenBear
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 04/2/11 9:50 AM
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As some hot dog consumers are becoming lax and lulled into complacence, I think it's time I re-posted my cautionary about Hot Dog Purveyors who try to veil the identity of their frankfurters. Until that fine day when The Hague makes it an international law to identify your dog in all its specifics, I iterate:
 
As a Hot Dog fancier, it really sticks in my craw when a purveyor of the Noble Frankfurter fails or refuses to identify the brand of Hot Dog he or she is selling. I always want to know. It’s what I do. I also want to know the size, but I won’t push it.

Actually, it all seems a little Medieval in this Age of Information…hiding what kind of food product you expect us to ingest. I mean, it has been a while since Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle.” Some sellers even get angry if you ask…like there’s some unwritten code of the Hot Dog Fraternity against giving away the secret.

On the other hand, many proudly display what type they sell. It’s more often than not good for business. They’re proud of their offering, maybe pay a little extra for the brand name recognition, and are glad to associate with it. It’s what the vendor’s umbrella is all about. It’s shouting out, “Look, I sell Sabrett, or Vienna Beef, or Hebrew National, or Best’s, etc. I’m a Good Guy. It’s All Good. I’ve Nothing to Hide!”

When a seller of Tube Steaks is secretive, or looks askance when I dare ask what it is I’m about to purchase for consumption, I’m put off. The brand might be fine. But just the fact that they don’t care to take me into their trust is a turn off. What else shouldn’t I know?

It’s just good form to be open and above board when dealing with foodstuffs. Though, admittedly, for me the interest is also academic. Whereas Henry Higgins could tell a person’s geography by their dialect, I like to dabble in the descent of the dog...its heritage, lineage, and content of character. And knowing from whence emanates a Frankfurter is key to honing that knowledge.

On a much more basic plane, some folks don’t eat pork; others don’t eat beef, etc. There are dietary considerations of every variation. Hence, it is my contention there ought to be a law. If I ask what brand of hot dog you sell, you have to tell me true.

Do you agree, or would you prefer the seller keeps it to himself?
The Bear


 

6star
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Sat, 04/2/11 10:44 AM
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I can agree on a requirement for divulging the type of meat(s) in the hot dog (for dietary restrictions, allergies, etc.), but considering the arguments (and put-downs) that sometimes occur even here on Roadfood over which brand is better compared to others, divulging a brand is more than likely to just cause trouble.  Every region has its favorite brands, so unless the seller wishes to brag about the brand he is selling (with umbrellas & signs), I think the seller should have the right to keep the brand name to himself, if he so wishes.
 
A good comparison would be the following: 
Should KFC or Popeye's or Stroud's be required to reveal what brand of chicken they are using?  Or McDonald's and Hardee's or any other burger place have to reveal the specific source(s) of their beef?  Should Subway and Jimmy John's and every diner that sells sandwiches be required to reveal where they get all their different meats and cheeses?  How about Pizza Hut and Papa John's (and every independent pizza place in the U.S.)? 

Gilberts Sausages
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 12:09 AM
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I've been looking for groups online that show real passion for their hot dogs, and I think I just found it.  I'm co-owner in a new craft sausage company out of Sheboygan County, WI, and one of the things we our proudest of is our willingness to tell you everything that's in our product.
 
In our all beef frank we use cuts of beef sirloin, and don't add any sodium nitrite, MSG, erythorbates, etc. and list ALL our ingredients on our label including the list of spices (instead of just saying "natural flavors").
 
Our dog is awesome, and the flavor speaks for itself.  But we list EVERYTHING on our label not because we have to, but because consumers have the right to know what they're eating.  Not to mention we're actually proud of what's in our hot dogs.
 
 
 
 

Foodbme
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 2:40 AM
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Gilberts Sausages


I've been looking for groups online that show real passion for their hot dogs, and I think I just found it.  I'm co-owner in a new craft sausage company out of Sheboygan County, WI, and one of the things we our proudest of is our willingness to tell you everything that's in our product.

In our all beef frank we use cuts of beef sirloin, and don't add any sodium nitrite, MSG, erythorbates, etc. and list ALL our ingredients on our label including the list of spices (instead of just saying "natural flavors").

Our dog is awesome, and the flavor speaks for itself.  But we list EVERYTHING on our label not because we have to, but because consumers have the right to know what they're eating.  Not to mention we're actually proud of what's in our hot dogs.

While we discourage self promotion on here, there's no reason another member can't do a little research to find out about a product. It appears as though these folks have some good eats to offer those of you in the Milwaukee-Green Bay area.
www.gilbertssausages.com

MellowRoast
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 2:52 AM
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I'd love to try them.  Sorry I can't get them here.

Foodbme
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 3:01 AM
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MellowRoast


I'd love to try them.  Sorry I can't get them here.

Their web site says they will be availavble on-line soon. They sound like they have unique ingredients. I'd like to try them also. Especially the one with blue cheese!

John Fox
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 6:10 AM
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If their hot dogs are anywhere near as good as Usinger's, I'd love to try them.

ann peeples
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 10:04 AM
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Well, John and all, we have fine "wurstmachers" in the Sheboygan area, and I will be on the lookout for these. I am hopeful they are of the same caliber( or better!) as those from Meisfelds or Woodlake Market.
I will keep you posted on my quest.

Foodbme
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 3:44 PM
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annpeeples


Well, John and all, we have fine "wurstmachers" in the Sheboygan area, and I will be on the lookout for these. I am hopeful they are of the same caliber( or better!) as those from Meisfelds or Woodlake Market.
I will keep you posted on my quest.

Their web site says their available at:
Woodlake Market
795 Woodlake Rd #A
Kohler, WI 53044
 
Festival Foods & Sendiks



joerogo
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 3:54 PM
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I'm with Da Bear on this one.  I want to know what I'm eating.
 
Gilberts Sausages, Let us know when you are able to ship

ann peeples
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 7:20 PM
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I am nearest Sendiks-will check them out soon...

DawnT
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RE: Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Tue, 04/12/11 8:46 PM
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There's a fundamental difference between an unprocessed ingredient and a processed food. Raw meats, while sourcing can be important and tastes varies due to the source and quality levels, meat is still raw meat as one brand of H&R flour is basically the same as another H&R flour. The wheat sources may differ and protien ranges slightly vary, but essentially they are the same. Ditto the chicken example. While it may be packed in a brine and phosphates, flash frozen, or iced, it's still raw chicken if it came from Perdue,Sanderson,Pilgrim's Pride, or Tyson.
 
Hot dogs and sandwich meats are processed foods. Their formulation varies, their production varies, they may be processed on equipment with other meats that dietary restrictions exist. The same would go for processed bread. While Bologna uses beef and Wonder Bread may use a Northwestern wheat as it's core ingredient, there is a world of difference between brands of these processed foods and their competitors.
KFC or Popeye's would be justified by saying they use 100% USDA inspected fryers and maybe specify if they are pre-brined and likewise a BK or McD's stating they use 100% ground beef. The source for all practical purposes is immaterial.
 
Subway's cold cuts, a Hot Dog vendor's dogs, or even their bread being a processed food should be subject to source disclosure. There is no trade secret, or proprietary process or information involved regarding the sourcing. As far as a competive advantage goes, a small vendor with a cart has little to loose outside of his immediate sales area unless somebody sets up across the street selling the same dog for a lower price. A large vendor has little to gain by emulating a competitor. It's just plain petty when you have a small change operator refusing to name his source...unless he's ashamed of it.
 
 
 
6star


A good comparison would be the following: 
Should KFC or Popeye's or Stroud's be required to reveal what brand of chicken they are using?  Or McDonald's and Hardee's or any other burger place have to reveal the specific source(s) of their beef?  Should Subway and Jimmy John's and every diner that sells sandwiches be required to reveal where they get all their different meats and cheeses?  How about Pizza Hut and Papa John's (and every independent pizza place in the U.S.)? 



Gilberts Sausages
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 04/13/11 10:56 AM
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John Fox


If their hot dogs are anywhere near as good as Usinger's, I'd love to try them.

 
John-
 
Tried to reply to your message, but was blocked by the spam filter (I'm too new to roadfood apparently).  Send me an e-mail at eric@gilbertssausages.com so we can communicate and figure out a way to get you some of these bad boys.
 
To everyone else, thanks for your supportive responses!  I realized I was tip-toeing the line of self-promotion, but we're just the little guy who set up shop right in Johnsonville's backyard.  So we really are genuinely passionate about our products...hard not to sound that way sometimes.

Dog Boss
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 04/13/11 12:12 PM
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Gilberts Sausages


John Fox


If their hot dogs are anywhere near as good as Usinger's, I'd love to try them.


John-

Tried to reply to your message, but was blocked by the spam filter (I'm too new to roadfood apparently).  Send me an e-mail at eric@gilbertssausages.com so we can communicate and figure out a way to get you some of these bad boys.

To everyone else, thanks for your supportive responses!  I realized I was tip-toeing the line of self-promotion, but we're just the little guy who set up shop right in Johnsonville's backyard.  So we really are genuinely passionate about our products...hard not to sound that way sometimes.

when your ready to ship............. i want to order also.......... i'm in jersey with john fox...... maybe we do a split the order. john get's 1lb i get 4lb type of thing LOL
 

Benzee
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Re:Divulging the Dog...There Ought to be a Law - Wed, 04/13/11 3:24 PM
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Hello all ,
Put me on the list also , as long as you can get them to NY I'm in
And thanks to Screenbear for reviving a  five yer old thread
Benzee

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