CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded

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russ2304
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CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 10:07 AM
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Am contemplating buying one or two of these for proposed Q operation--had demo yesterday 8/17 and was pretty impressed with quality of ribs turned out------how about all other meats such as shoulder,brisket,etc.All input greatly appreciated.

Thanks

RibRater
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 10:23 AM
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As you may know from another thread, I recently purchased the 008. So far I have smoked ribs, a picnic, and a "london broil" to medium. All very good. I wouldnt rate them excellent but from what I can see that is only from my lack of knowledge of how to best get the results I'm looking for. I anticipate excellent soon.


When my last young one gets off to college (2 years... big smile), I plan to get a larger unit for a mobile bbq shop.


I still use my offset but it's days may be numbered once I try a brisket in the CS.


hopefully jack will be along soon and can provide feedback based on his commercial use of the unit you are looking at..


Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 11:15 AM
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The folks at Cookshack developed the original model as a brisket cooker,and they are outstanding.

It cooks shoulder/butts the same way.

I has the benefit of cooking at higher temps than some of the smaller models.

There are some folks that like poultry and other items at these higher temps.

It has cababilities to do some cold smoking,as well.

They are very efficient,and cabable of producing excellent quality product ,even by minimally trained help.

Like in all cooking ,they need some guidelines to follow.

The Cookshack forum can be the answer to most of the questions that might arise,and keep your learning curve to a minimum.

I have used one for several years,and am still amazed by the versatility and ease of use.

If allowed,I would use it on the competition circuit,as well.

Hope this helps a little.

Tom-Fl
FireHouseBBQ



Theedge
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 11:35 AM
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I have the 008 and love it. I frequent two BBQ joints that use Cookshack, not sure which models. All of their meats turn out fantastic.

Dr of BBQ
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 6:20 PM
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I built a Cookshack SM 250 from a reach in freezer. But let me warn you if you try this you can't use the insulation that is in between the freezer inner and outer box. Anyway I used Cookshack’s computer system and woodboxes. I love it. I had bought and sold Cookshack Smokers for about 5 years and spotted the new computer model at the Kansas City Royal. But when I heard the 8 K price tag I went and got my camera, took a bunch of measurements and built my own. I ended up with about $2400.00 invested in the project, becuase I had an all stainless steel interior installed. Cookshacks are great and I love the hold feature on the computer run models. I still use my Klose more often but there certainly is a time and place for a Cookshack.
Jack@DrofBBQ.com

CajunKing
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 6:37 PM
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russ2304

look for "prisonchef" comments in the Lunch & Dinner- BBQ Topic- Looking for a new smoker

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11839

Jack has some detailed advice there on the cookshacks!

He has been very helpful with his sound advice on use of the CS's

Cookshack is a great smoker, there is a learning curve with using them, but with detailed note taking once you get up to speed, watch the AWESOME que you will produce.

Do not let the learning curve thing throw you though, they are fairly easy to use, and DO produce awesome que.


RibDog
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 08/18/06 7:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

I built a Cookshack SM 250 from a reach in freezer. But let me warn you if you try this you can't use the insulation that is in between the freezer inner and outer box. Anyway I used Cookshack’s computer system and woodboxes. I love it. I had bought and sold Cookshack Smokers for about 5 years and spotted the new computer model at the Kansas City Royal. But when I heard the 8 K price tag I went and got my camera, took a bunch of measurements and built my own. I ended up with about $2400.00 invested in the project, becuase I had an all stainless steel interior installed. Cookshacks are great and I love the hold feature on the computer run models. I still use my Klose more often but there certainly is a time and place for a Cookshack.
Jack@DrofBBQ.com



Don't you mean you built a smoker similar to a Cookshack SM 250? If you build a knockoff, then point that out.

John

prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 08/19/06 12:45 AM
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russ,
i guess the only thing i can add to this thread is just this. when i needed more cooking capacity i purchased another SM150 and not an fec100. i also installed the hood system that cookshack offers for this unit and have been more than pleased with that decision as i have one sm that cooks more on the "dry" side and the other cooks more to the "moist" side but this was done to meet my particular needs and after some fiddling around those needs were far exceeded simply by modifying the little hood system to pull a more negative air pressure flow thru that one unit which ended a specialized problem that i was encountering and was done thru a series of conversations with a guy in north carolina who has helped us a lot.
the units are extremely reliable especially considering ours are towed and to be honest at the start i was worried that towing vibrations would cause heating element failure. after 3 years of use i can say those fears were certainly unfounded. while on the subject of towing weight is a major concern to me and these units while heavily insulated are light in weight and that is one of the reasons that i am considering removing the fec currently in the rig and replacing it with my second 150 unit. this change however would require that i submit new plan approval drawings to the state of florida at a cost of $150.00 and then have my rig re-approved at a cost of $350.00. needless to say those numbers are significant but in view of gas prices, ect. and due to my admiration for the way these units cook commercially it is cetainly something that i am giving the hard look to.
just so you are aware i in no way,shape or form work for cookshack. my 2 SM150's and FEC100 i purchased with my hard earned bucks and i am somewhat persona non grata on their forum due to some things that i have said. all that being said my money says that you could do no finer than a cookshack electric for commercial use and i stand behind that statement.
jack
ps. one last thing. the electrics are illegal in competitions. food for thought there!!!! also when gathering information always ask if the person is cooking commercially or competitevly. the 2 styles have no bearing upon each other and from your posts i have gotten the feeling that you are viewing this purchase from a commercial standpoint.
pps. almost forgot the negative. the fec does better biscuits. however i am lucky that i have a friend that is a pastry chef. we are currently experimenting with several single action backing powders and we are making good headway on producing acceptable quality biscuits out of the SM150 which has a lower top end temp. so far that's my only negative. but one to be considered if you are doing a breakfast type item.

sinkiller
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 08/19/06 10:28 AM
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If you are going to open a full blown Q restaurant, look no farther than a Southern Pride Model,

Call them, they will send you a demo tape.

Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 08/19/06 4:10 PM
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Cajun King,I am having some trouble figuring out this learning curve problem.

Is this in reference to someone that has never cooked bbq,and having to learn about that?

The cooker seems to have a very minimal learning curve,unless you try to change everything it does well,as it was designed.

Thanks,

Tom

CajunKing
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 08/19/06 6:12 PM
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Tom,

Not with cooking que, as much as switching to a new smoker, I have been a stick burner for years, I know the fundamentals of que, but learning the ins and outs of a new cooker is where the trial and error or learning curve is.

With the cookshack there is a "set it and forget it mentality", and several beginner users have bad experiences with their first attempts, all I was trying to say is it takes a little experimenting, enjoy the process of experimentation.

Problems beginners experience, too little smoke, too much smoke, no bark, too much bark, no smoke ring, etc. These are things that are easy to overcome using the cookshack, it just takes patience and a little trial and error.

Take notes, if it doesnt turn out right, look at your notes next time and change something or do something different.

Please don't let the use of "learning curve" throw you, we all have a learning curve when trying something new, it's called trial and error.

Hope this helps clear this up, sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Donald
cajunking

bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 08/20/06 9:46 AM
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my only concern with the cookshack, is the cooking area. i am not sure, can someone quote on how much meat one will hold? i use a home-made two-face split gas/wood smoker, that can produce a ton of meat.
at once, i can smoke 12 racks of ribs, 12 butts, 8 whole chickens, and 50 pounds of taters. all, at once........
i can imagine having a whole bunch of smokers, to do the one job.
friend of mine has a monster smoker. they only do charity work. they smoke several hundred butts at once! now thats a smoker.

prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 08/20/06 5:41 PM
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bassrocker,
sm150 is rated per load as follows. all figures are from their website;
40 lbs ribs
80 lbs heavy cut meats
15 chickens

sm260 is rated per load as follows. all figures are from their website. requires 240v.
90 lbs ribs
200 lbs brisket
250 lbs butts
40 chicken

to see all the commercial specs just go to www.cookshack.com and click on the pics. it will give all the spec data

jack

Porky Pine Kate
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Tue, 08/22/06 1:22 AM
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A few points here:

First, there isn't much in this world that doesn't have a learning curve. Simple things ... difficult things. If I cook on a gas stove for several years then switch to electric, there is a learning curve. If I switch back again I have to recall what I was doing in the first place. I happen to own an FEC and I know the hot spots, the little quirks in my unit. In general, on all cooking "things" I have found you need to learn your appliance and work with it. Notes do help, unless you have a steel trap mind and iI do not.

Second, I have NEVER gotten a bad bit of advice from Prisonchef. The man is solid.

Third, I have to agree on a difference between Comp Cooks and Professionals. No slur intended. There are different goals and different judges. Mr. Public likes what he likes, he is not trained to judge food. The setting is different, the goal is different. I have licenses and food management considerations to follow as a professional. My ultimate goal is to grow a business. I have different problems to cope with. The key word here is different, not less important or lesser in any way, just different. That being said, if offense is taken, you are letting your feelings stick out way too far. No insult was intended. I am not sure why Comp cooks take offense to this differentiation, but it seems they do.

This thread is about SM's, but I have an FEC. I do like my FEC and I do operate out of a trailer, for now anyway. We did kill one truck pulling the trailer already, but upgraded, so weight for now is not a problem. Capacity is becoming a problem for us. Truth be told if we go into a stationary setting I will be considering the biggest FE available. But, before I do that I will be talking to PrisonChef about his thoughts on the subject. Your opinions are always welcome to me Jack.

Porky Pine Kate

prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Tue, 08/22/06 7:12 PM
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man kate thanks. too be honest i am kind of emabarresed but it does feel really good to know that i have helped someone.
thanks also for clarifing my stance on commercial vs competiton. sometimes my words get in the way of what i am trying to say.
i guess what really throws me off the hook is the whole "set it and forget it" thing when it comes to cooking from a professional aspect(i have no problems with it for home cooks or those that just have the bucks to purchase professional equipment to impress the neighbors). i looked down my nose for two years at the sm150 i had. just so everyone knows why i have two sm150's and an fec 100 here is the full, no bull, low down on that decision. in 2003 we went to the national bbq association convention in atlanta,ga. i went there with full intentions of buying a southern pride unit. while the cost on that was somewhat over budget we met john shifflet who showed us the fec100. i loved the unit but my wife was afraid of it for whatever reason. john sent us inside to look at the electric models. peg loved the sm150 and i mean loved it. i liked the fec from purely a competition standpoint so we were at an empass. when we compared the cost of getting both an sm150 and fec100 versus the cost of the smallest southern pride (coupled with the fact that prides don't meet fba or kcbs standards) we chose the cookshacks and saved several thousands of dollars. i didn't think too much about the sm and used it as a food warmer for a long time until my fec coughed a shear pin at 2am on a saturday and the food had to be ready to go at 6am. shoved everything into the sm dialed up 250 on the heat and let it rip. that unit saved us. my wife showed me how to play the buttons later and let me experiment with it. after a year i had the notes that allowed let me match everything except biscuits that had previously come out of the fec. when we became fortunate enough to require more capacity i weighed all pros and cons for each unit and for us (and i stress this is only for us) the only logical choice was another 150.
what really galls me is these units are so capable of doing so much more then what they are given credit for. when they are pushed to edge of the envelope i am still amazed by what they are truly capable of and for that reason alone i get very short tempered with those who tell me i am making them too complicated. these individuals (and they have never identified themselves as trying to make a commercial living from these units) are selling this unit far short of it's ultimate capablities and that,to me as a chef, is inexcusable or to be truly blunt so near sighted as to be a criminal and it truly upsets me from a professional standpoint as it reminds me too much of the phrase "we have always done it this way". i guess my old man was right when he advised me that consistancy is the hob-goblins of small minds. but i guess the nicest thing about the electrics are they forced me to think out of the box, to review books like on food and cooking,to bone up on physics and thermodynamics, to call up old teacher chefs and pick their brains as to why this or that was occuring and to just light a bigger fire in my belly!!!!
jack

Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Tue, 08/22/06 7:13 PM
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Hi Kate,

A couple of the questions may have to do with semantics.

Learning curves can be minimal, to extreme.

Yes,gas and electric stoves are different.

Maybe the question should be"if you can cook a pork chop well on one,how big a deal is it to learn to cook a pork chop on the other".

No,I am not equating a quick saute' with the slow and low of barbecue.

This is a simplistic example,but most stickburners,that have had to learn a more labor/attention intensive cooking process,are able to rather quickly adjust to a Cookshack/Southern Pride/Ole Hickory/commercial Traegar,etc.

As for "comp cooks" taking so called offense at the differences,there could be a couple of reasons.

They might not understand ,that they are not professionals.

Many comp cooks that I know,operate large vending operations,catering companies,roadside vending units,carryout restaurants,full sitdown restaurants,etc.

Most of those seem quite adept at distinguishing the differences among comp judges,better restaurant patrons,catering clients,and possibily one time vending customers.

And yes,I've cooked on the above and also cook on FEC s on the comp circuit.

Just a couple of thoughts,and I hope your business is progressing well.

Tom-Fl
FireHouseBBQ

Porky Pine Kate
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Wed, 08/23/06 7:30 PM
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Hi Tom.

Okay, let's split hairs. You can be a professional comp cook, who is also a professional food service business person (ie chef) or just a professional chef or just a professional comp cook. But I would submit to you that if I am talking about a professional chef and you happen to be a comp cook and a professional chef, what is the hang up? Where is the insult ? You are missing the point. Comp cook is not lesser, it is different. Comp Cook that is also professional, meaning you do it to earn your living full time serving the public and also do it on the Competition Circuit as a adjunct to your business or for pleasure is also different. In order to make the distinction from one who works in a business making food as a service for the public, with benefit of a license, most would say this is their profession. And you have proven my point that some people feel that the distinction is a belittlement , but this is only in their minds because it is not inteneded as a slur or slight. When we talk competion and food service for the general public we are talking two different subjects, with some similarities shared, but different goals and methods in many aspects. I applaud competition cooks, they do fantastic things and I can learn from them, I have no aspirations to comptitively cook like they do. I respect what they do. But, if they are cooking for the public with a license and serving in a business, they are then professional chefs. And that my friend is the distinction. It is a way of classifying the two very distinct areas. Nothing more. I have been cooking since I was three years old but until I did it as a service for paying customers I did not consider myself a professional. And I never took offense at not being professional, because that is not the classification my cooking comes under at home. But the truth is my home cooking is more of a profession than most chefs or comp cooks. But we just do not call it that, period. If you are a Comp Cook and you are making food at a restaurant, you are now in your professional chef capacity and I bet you will not cook that food in the same manner you would for the judges at a comp. I know you wouldn't, the judges take a bite of this and your flavors are more powerful to gain an instant impression. So, there again we have a difference, not one that makes a slur, just a difference. This insult between the two distinctions is not intended, it is assumed only by one half of the equation, and only by some I believe. It has been beaten to oblivion. Frankly, I have never heard or seen a food service professional say anything uncomplimentary about a professional comp cook. The inferiority complex is self inflicted. I would love to say that I have a truck load of trophies to my name. It just isn't something I am motivated to work for though.

Learning curves. Here again we have some generalities. People come in all makes and models. Some are more deft at this than that. Some are more anal than others. Is that bad? Certainly not. A perfectionist in his or her field will no doubt have his own way of perfecting his skills and craft. Some will push the envelope, like Jack, to see what he can accomplish, what variances will come out of his testing and experimentation. My problem here is that I do not own the cooker mentioned. I do on the other hand know Jack. Jack is a craftsman at what he does and I do understand this. I also know that many have talked to Jack about how to get what they want out of their smoker. Some people may be quite happy with putting in their food to cook and be thrilled to get what they get, Here again, we have others that have certain expectations and problems that are not so easy to resolve. If the man can help them get what they want why impune his character and knowledge? I am sorry, but this is a lot like telling the guy with a parrot on his shoulder not to worry, just go on about his business, there is no parrot on his shoulder when he knows there is. This is the point to stay quiet if you have no helpful input to the situation. I had a devil of a time making ribs in my FEC. Everyone said it was so easy. Not for me. It tooks me months to get them the way I wanted them. And I owe many thanks To Ron from Pellet Envy, a Comp Cook, and Jack. They both solved my problems. Ron was also quick to point out that I didn't want to do this and that because he did his for competition and that wouldn't work for me.

As for stick burners, we came from a time when you used an old fridge and a small heating element in the bottom to smoke your food. Pretty basic. Still, there are ways to do it and ways not to do it. You learn. The FEC was not just stick it in and go. We learned how to deal with it to get what we wanted.

What works for me might work for you. But then again, it very well might not.

I don't mean to sound combative. Jack and I have both stated that we love our cookers. Given them high rating. Isn't that the end all? No one said CS was bad, unhelpful or not the choice to make. We state our opinions, what we find to be true. You state yours and have every right to that opinion. But, so do others and we have much to learn from each other. To speak freely, to say what we think is a very good thing.

Jack has been far more gracious in his words and actions than I might have been had someone more or less told me pubicly that I was a know nothing. And that is the the crux of the issue on another board. I saw and read the posts. Jack is a gentleman and asked me not to comment at the time. Sorry Jack. You deserve better. You have helped so many people and asked nothing in return. A public apology was the least you deserved.

I am sorry if I embarrased you or have angered you by my comments.

Tom, I thank you for your words of good wishes. We are making wonderful progress. In fact we hope to be moving our operation into a restaurant setting in the next few months.

There are driving forces and under currents to this thread. There are also some basic truths to be found here too. I hope the general population can ferret them out and gain something from the posts.

Best wishes and much respect to EVERYONE

Porky Pine Kate

Ps I will be at an event for the next five days and will not be able to respond to any posts.
See you all next week! PPK

BR
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 08/24/06 12:00 AM
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But let me warn you if you try this you can't use the insulation that is in between the freezer inner and outer box.

Could you elaborate on the above statement? What exactly is the inner and outer box? I know folks who use old freezers with metal interiors that put out some good Q.

Dr of BBQ
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 08/24/06 9:24 AM
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Doctor of BBQ Wrote "But let me warn you if you try this you can't use the insulation that is in between the freezer inner and outer box".
BR Wrtote "Could you elaborate on the above statement? What exactly is the inner and outer box? I know folks who use old freezers with metal interiors that put out some good Q".

BR,
As I said in my earlier post, (or should have said) I built a Cookshack knock off complete with the Cookshack Computer System Cookshack Fireboxes and a stainless steel interior and exterior. I had owned several Cookshack models over the years and at one point bought five in one order to resale to friends. I bought five sold four and got mine free. I had a problem with one once and I took it apart and fixed it so I knew how they were built and wired. I saw the new computer models at the KC Royal and decided to build my own. I bought a reach in commercial stainless steel freezer with a bad compressor, at an auction. When I took it to a local sheet metal fabricator’s shop to get some work done on it, it was January and work was slow so they jumped at the chance to do indoor work. I asked them to remove the plastic interior and replace it with an all stainless steel box. I figured the plastic might burn or give off fumes if heated for an extended cook. I told them to take their time I wasn’t in any hurry. If some job came up put mine aside and do it as a fill in job. So it set for sometimes a week at a time while the shop guys worked on other projects. Long story short during one of those slack times the guy that was involved with the project was eating lunch and happened to be looking at the unit with the interior box completely removed. He noticed that the insulation was a different color than any he had seen in the past and cut a small sliver off of it and touched it with a match. It burst into flames and gave off a terrible gray green gas that took your breath away. So he and the shop foremen called me and we met and decided to remove the insulation in the walls, floor, and roof. We ordered new insulation from a company that makes commercial stoves
Now I don’t know if the insulation would have been a problem had we left it as it came from the factory or not. But I think for the extra few dollars the stainless interior and the new heavy-duty insulation was a good investment. I ordered the computer system, and the fireboxes from Cookshack; they were a snap to install. So I ended up with a great Cookshack knockoff that cooks just like the real thing.
Jack@drofBBQ.com














Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 08/24/06 9:51 AM
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Hi Kate,

You have not angered,nor insulted me.

My questioning had to do with the suggested long learning curves..

And yes, Rodney and Sherry Gray/Pellet Envy are fine folks,as well as fine cooks.

Best of luck with the upcoming venture,

Tom

Freebird T Park
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 08/31/06 8:31 AM
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Russ,

I have a CS150. It does a great job on everything I have smoked. It does have a drawback for me. There is no smoke ring. Being in NJ, that probably won't be a problem for you. I'm in Tx. So, it is a little bit of a problem for me. But, there are ways around it, and I'm experimenting.

The people at CS are great. It is a very good smoker.

mike



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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 08/31/06 7:44 PM
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Mike,

The issue of smoke ring has to do with the formation of nitrates/nitrites. I've suggested to some other texans that have larger CS's to add some charcoal (because of how it burns, it creates more N/N) as a way to get the "look and feel". Add a couple of chunks.

Not to bore everyone with the theory of Smoke Rings, but this has been the recommended change and has worked for everyone I've suggested it to. A second option is to burn lots of wood, in multiple steps and it will have the same effect, by creating more N/N. You HAVE to get the nitrates to "cure" the meat to get the pink. Scientific fact (involves Myoglobin, etc).

Hope that helps.

Smokin'


bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 09/1/06 8:22 AM
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hey all. i dont know what all the drama is about, and i dont care. i am here to learn, and to share. thanks.
here is another concern of mine with the electrics(i still havent tried one yet),,,,
with the gas/wood burners, i can flavor the meat with the clear smoke that comes from the coals of wood. that, is the desired part of the wood flavor. but it takes quite a bit of wood, compared to the electrics. i just cant figure out how the electrics can make good use of this type of flavor, with only two to four ounces of wood. are they also using the initial smoke to flavor the meat? btw, the initial smoke is the part that is bitter and contains cancer causing agents, according to cal. surgeon gen. normally, i let the wood fire up, and use the coals, for flavor. that, is the unmistakable taste, that i cant see duplicated without using alot of wood coals.
so i just dont see the electrics, providing the wood flavor, without wood. perhaps if one of you professional electric users are located somewhere off i95(with a restaurant or stand), between ga and deleware, i will stop and see for myself next month....

RibRater
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 09/1/06 8:47 AM
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Myrtle Beach work?


Little Pigs Barbecue and Catering
62nd Avenue North in Myrtle Beach by Hwy 17 Bypass
and Surfside Beach on Business 17 across from Ocean Lakes

Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 09/1/06 9:53 AM
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The Cookshack style electric cooker doesn't flow the large volume of air that a horizontal stickburner might.

It is also exceptionally well sealed,so you aren't losing the smoke.

It is very efficient and burns very cleanly,but you can still oversmoke by using excess wood.

Tom

baconman
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 09/1/06 6:10 PM
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If some of you folks would double space, your longer posts would be

alot easier for these 60 yr. old eyes to follow.

Thanks

bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 09/3/06 6:24 PM
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i understand that the electrics are well sealed, but that may be a bad thing. the smoke, on a long cook, changes. gets stale, actually. i prefer sending in fresh stuff constantly. i guess thats what i cant get passed in my mind. i like fresh coals being added throughout the cook. plus changing up the flavors at certain intervals. but thats just me. i figure bbq is made from wood coals. somebody show me a place where i can go try this electric.....please.

bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 09/3/06 6:44 PM
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thanks, larry. thats perfect. they use electrics??

ok bacon, i will try to double space... but my old memory might forget....see

think about this.. if you are cooking over a bed of woodcoals, have you ever oversmoked anything? nah, cant be done. thats because you arent trapping the smoke, and infusing it over and over.

the absence of the ring, is proof that only white smoke is flavoring the wood(cancerous). the clear smoke is where the nitrates are. that is the essence of the wood...the coals, if you will. and the ultimate flavor.

but still, i will not judge these cookers, until i have tried their wares.........but i will have my reservations..

CajunKing
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Mon, 09/4/06 8:38 PM
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bassrocker

you can change varieties of wood in the midst of your smoking, and using several woods does produce a different taste all together.

I have been a stick burner for years, and like you I liked changing woods during a smoke to produce different effects.

I was having trouble adjusting to my cs sm150, but with the advice from several people here who were willing to help me out, and not criticize my actions I have learned many things, and really love my cookshack.

I have even started getting a better smoke ring (YEAHHHHH )
and It was because of prisonchefs comments and help.

Try the electrics, you will be amazed at what they are capable of doing, and this is coming from a dedicated stick burner.

(yes, I still use my "port o pit" for fun every so often, and for big things, like Turkey Day which I will do 30 smoked turkeys)


smokinokie
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Wed, 09/6/06 9:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bassrocker4u2
the absence of the ring, is proof that only white smoke is flavoring the wood(cancerous). the clear smoke is where the nitrates are. that is the essence of the wood...


Since this is in the Pros forum and these people are serving to the public, think more detail is needed. And you did say you wanted to learn and share, me too.

Care to state the basis for that? By your statement, you're saying that electrics smoke with only cancerous smoke. How silly and potentially libelous statement to make.

And then of course you're saying anyone with a stickburner burning wood (not coals)is causing cancer.

Let's see some basis for that statement.

I've been studying smoke for many years and even talked to a few researchers and that statement is a new one. Yeah, some tree huggers in California have had wood labeled as "cancer causing" but they haven't provided scientific proof, they just got wood labeled as such.

Also, the smoke is "stale". Huh? The air in any smoker is moving constantly by aircurrents and convection, even an electric. That's why there are vent holes. And wood can get old and give a "stale" taste, but it's because the wood is old, not that it doesn't circulate in a smoker.

As for cooking on gas, depends is it natural or propane? Me, gas gives food a "taste" that I find in restaurants. When I ask them what they're cooking on, it's gas.

All smokers have their points/counter points. Heck there are plenty of people out there that think true bbq is about cooking over a pit you dug in the ground and anything else just ain't right.

Plenty of smokers to go around. You want an opinion of a smoker, I'll post on it if I've used it, but I don't offen an opinion on one I haven't used. Wouldn't make me much of a resource.

RibRater
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Wed, 09/6/06 9:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bassrocker4u2

i understand that the electrics are well sealed, but that may be a bad thing. the smoke, on a long cook, changes. gets stale, actually. i prefer sending in fresh stuff constantly. i guess thats what i cant get passed in my mind. i like fresh coals being added throughout the cook. plus changing up the flavors at certain intervals. but thats just me. i figure bbq is made from wood coals. somebody show me a place where i can go try this electric.....please.



bass, the cookers are well sealed but there is a hole for the smoke to escape at the top. it doesnt seal in the smoke.

the real test is in the taste (and appearance to me) of the final product. once you have some good que cooked in one of these, adding fresh coals may very well become a thing of the past for you.



prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Wed, 09/6/06 6:14 PM
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cajunking,
thanks for the kind words and i sure am glad that i helped you out just like zeb helped me. it was a combo thing since he uses a 260 and we had to modify the answer for my 150's.
bassrocker,
st augustine is a short drive from where you are. come on down and i will be more than happy to show you how to do it. just returning the favor you showed me and peggy when we visited you. but trust me the 2 to 4 ounces of wood idea is not how it will work out at all. your idea on air exchange is great but you left off the part about bark formation and crisping the skin on chicken which is also influenced by this condition.
larry,
the hole in the top of the sm150 is the key to the "whole" thing. peg's radiology training brought up the Bernoulli Effect and confirms bassrockers idea. this in fact was the crux of zeb's cure and in fact helped us beyound words.
smokinokie,
i have two boxes of wood which came with both of my SM150's. they both had the "warning" on them. in view of the fact that these came from cookshack i do not clearly understand how you can rate bassrockers statement as libelous as the heat source is not in question but merely the flavoring medium which in this case is wood. in view of the fact that an elected state govenment passed a law which requires these warnings i don't quite understand your attack on bassrocker.

smokinokie
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 09/7/06 2:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by prisonchef

cajunking,

larry,the hole in the top of the sm150 is the key to the "whole" thing. peg's radiology training brought up the Bernoulli Effect and confirms bassrockers idea. this in fact was the crux of zeb's cure and in fact helped us beyound words.


Didn't see, what was BRs idea? Loading it up with more wood? Changing wood? Preburning wood?

Now if you meant to say Bernoulli's Principle, are you saying the difference in air pressure between inside and outside (as a former pilot I'm well aware of how BP keep me flying)? Interesting idea, we've discussed in other forums.

Hey we're all here learning, how about some details.

Maybe I just missed the idea, appreciate the help. That's me, trying to learn, asking questions about statements made, that might or might not be proven, but that get's called an attack.

Let me get this right PC, so I know your rules. Asking someone for details, stating something is cancerous and potential threat to our clients health, is an Attack? Hmm, think the attack came from you, not me asking a releavant question about health and cancer.

Maybe the pros should worry about the statement made that might impact out client, instead of someone asking for an explaination being labeled as an attack.

Cancer causing Did you all miss that statement. So now, by that statement, anyone not cooking over coals, is selling food enhanced by cancer causing agents (smoke).

That worrys me a little more than PC calling it an Attack, so my request for details in my earlier post still stands.

Tom-Fl
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Fri, 09/8/06 9:20 AM
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You'll also find that in this type efficient cooker,after the initial quick burn,you'll need to pass your hand over the vent hole-to be sure it is smoking.

Like most stickburners, will also be looking for clear smoke by adjusting the air intake and letting the exhaust run wide open.

Tom

bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 09/9/06 9:26 AM
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first i will post this for all to read....









What's In That Smoke?
For many the smell of wood smoke from a fireplace elicits fond memories of hearth and home. There is a lack of awareness, however, that wood smoke has become a major source of air pollution in the United States. Combustion of organic matter such as wood and yard debris releases a variety of harmful substances, including particulates, carcinogens, carbon monoxide, respiratory irritants and toxins. Many people--infants and children, pregnant women, senior citizens, and those suffering from allergies, asthma, bronchitis, emphysema, pneumonia, or other heart or lung diseases--are at risk from the pollution released by wood smoke.

Compounds released during the combustion process interfere with normal lung development and function. Indoor and outdoor air quality can be degraded significantly by the use of poorly designed, non-certified wood stoves. Poor burning processes, lack of maintenance, improper stove installation, and burning wet wood create excessive amounts of pollution. Fires left smoldering to keep a house warm during the night can also be particularly harmful. Smoldering wood burns slower and incompletely, thereby releasing more smoke and gas into the air.

Wood smoke contains tiny particles of creosote, soot, and ash that can remain airborne for up to three weeks. Small particles of solid and liquid matter suspended in the air are called particulate matter, or "PM." PM10 are those particles 10 microns or less in diameter. (In comparison, a human hair is approximately 70 microns in diameter.) PM2.5, or "fine" particulate matter, are those particles 2.5 microns or less in diameter. Inhaling fine PM causes coughing, irritation, and permanent scaring of the lungs. This type of damage decreases lung function, increases the potential for respiratory illness, and may contribute to cancer, heart disease, and changes in DNA, leading to auto-immune diseases. Because of the health threats associated with particulate air pollution, the federal government regulates all particulate matter as one of the six major air pollutants.

Particulate pollution from wood stoves is primarily produced in the winter when stagnant air and temperature inversions limit air movement. At this time smoke is unable to rise and disperse, and this pollution becomes trapped close to the ground in our breathing space. Areas with valleys and poor air circulation can be strongly affected. The small size of these particles allows them to seep into houses through closed doors and windows.

Many of the small particles from wood smoke are too small to be filtered by the nose or upper respiratory system. Therefore, they are able to penetrate deep within the lungs, and they collect in the most remote portions of the lungs called the alveoli, which are tiny air sacs where oxygen enters the blood stream. Due to their ability to evade the defenses of the body, these particles are efficient vehicles for transporting toxic gases, bacteria, and viruses into the lungs, and ultimately the blood stream. Some toxic compounds are cancer-causing and can attach to the smallest smoke particles and enter the lungs at the same time. Particulate matter can clump together, blocking tiny veins as well as invoking harmful structural and chemical changes in the lungs.

A report released by the Washington State Department of Ecology based on research conducted by the University of Washington in Seattle and the EPA in Boise, Idaho, found that indoor PM10 levels from wood smoke in homes without woodstoves can reach 50-70 percent of the outdoor PM levels. The PM released from wood heating can also cause biological mutations (chromosome defects and genetic damage) in cells of the lungs. Mutagens and carcinogens are not exactly the same and not all mutagenic substances cause cancer. Mutations brought about by wood smoke, however, potentially lead to cancer formation. In 1988 an EPA study found that biological mutations in bacteria exposed to winter air samples increased with higher concentrations of fine particulate matter and were most numerous at the times of coldest temperatures, weekends, and holidays when wood stoves were used the most.

The cancer threat from air pollution is another serious public heath concern. In 1985 the EPA started a research program to clarify the sources of air pollution and to estimate their future cancer risk (Washington State Department of Ecology 1997). Their research determined that motor vehicles and wood stoves were the major sources of particulate air pollution and associated cancer risk in the urban airsheds studied. According to the EPA, many of the substances identified in wood smoke are suspected human carcinogens or co-carcinogens. These compounds include many polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), such as benzo(a)pyrene, and various aldehydes, alkenes, and semi-volatile organic compounds.

[For information about the health risks from exposure to air toxics. See EPA's Health Risk Assessment brochure
(see http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/3_90_022.html)]

Carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless gas that is also produced when wood is burned. Once in the blood stream, it reduces the ability of blood to carry oxygen to body tissues. Respiratory toxins and irritants, including nitrogen dioxide, are also released during wood combustion. These compounds impair the respiratory system and reduce its ability to fight infection.

Wood Smoke vs. Cigarette Smoke

Although many people associate tobacco smoke with certain health risks, research indicates that second hand wood smoke has potentially even greater ability to damage health. A comparison between tobacco smoke and wood smoke using electron spin resonance revealed quite startling results (Rozenberg 2001, Wood Smoke is More Damaging than Tobacco Smoke). Tobacco smoke causes damage in the body for approximately 30 seconds after it is inhaled. Wood smoke, however, continues to be chemically active and cause damage to cells in the body for up to 20 minutes, or 40 times longer.

Some of the components in wood smoke are free radicals, which steal electrons from the body, leaving cells unstable or injured. Some of these cells may die, while others may be altered and take on different functions. These changes lead to inflammation, which causes stress on the body. EPA researchers suggest that the lifetime cancer risk from wood stove emissions may be 12 times greater than the lifetime cancer risk from exposure to an equal amount of cigarette smoke. (Rozenberg 2001, What's in Wood Smoke and Other Emissions).






bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 09/9/06 9:34 AM
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now that you are aware that wood smoke particles cause all different kinds of health problems... we can continue. this is evidence that my smoker is also a huge problem, as i use more wood than the electrics. so... maybe electric aint all that bad....
its only a small step(leap) to go from 'wood smoke causing health risks', to 'wood flavored foods' causing health risks, simply because of the foods getting a direct exposure to the fine particles. not sure if a study has been done of the effects of these 'fine particles' when they are digested. that would be very interesting...
maybe all this exposure to wood smoke for the last four years, is the source of my own failing heath. hhmmmmmm......

Jimeats
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 09/9/06 10:17 AM
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Thanks, You just made my day. I have an old Crawford Fortress kitchen wood stove that I've been useing for 30 years now. Love it and wouldn't think about giving it up. Air quality I'm not concerned about, I live in a house built in 1774 and have more drafts than an outhouse during a blizzard. Chow Jim

BQ Matt
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sat, 09/16/06 5:54 AM
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Maybe it's just me, but I think everyone should break out some "credentials"!

OK, I'm kidding, I know some of you folks will get the joke, and hopefully find it funny!

FWIW, I've cooked on the cookshack models 305, 350, 150, and I think the other model number is 078, and can produce great BBQ with any of them. I've also cooked on the Southern Pride rotis. units, and they produce different results. Both good, just different.

For anyone looking into purchasing a commercial unit, see if you can borrow one for a week or so. My SP distributor allowed me to do that, and with CS legendary customer service, I'm betting you could work something out with them as well.

prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 09/17/06 6:38 PM
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bq matt,
just the guy i would love some input from as you have used the sm360. could you please give me your ideas on them? i am very familiar with both the southern pride rotis and non-rotis models in a commercial setting and i am also familiar with the sm150 and fec100 in the same settings. as we are nearing the end of year two of our business plan our next order of business is purchasing property for our restaurant within the following year. i have a friend in north carolina who uses an sm260 and has helped me greatly but have never met anyone with 350 experience so any help that you could give would be greatly appreciated.
the credential thing was taken in good humor and even though i know it is not necessary to you here are mine;
1994
American Culinary Federation
St Augustine Chapter
Junior Member of the year
1995
ACF
Certified Sous Chef (written exam and professional requirements fulfilled and certification granted)
2001/2002
ACF
St Augustine Chapter
Treasurer/Vice President
2001/2002
Culinary Arts Teacher. Received The Horizon Award for;
Teacher of the year alternative schools and candidate for teacher of the year St Johns County School System
1995-1999
Sous chef at Barnett Bank executive dining room and sous chef at retreat and conference center. main responsibilites were cost control, training, menu developement and special dietary requirements. Cooking style was classic french and continental cuisines with some excursions into floribean and pan pacific styles as needed.
2000
Executive chef
1973-1992
Ceco Corp
Southeastern Region
Engineering Department Supervisor.
This position gave me the leg up which has ensured my success in the food business to this date.
2003
Left teaching to pursue BBQ.
Currently employed by a local BBQ owner that has three resturants locally. I have increased beef sales several fold due to technique. The equipment used at this venue is Southern Pride models.
I am also part owner of 2 Greyhounds....Smokin!!!! a Chapter S Florida corporation. The equipment currently in use consists of an FEC100 and two SM150 units along with a Florida certified MFD 8 x 18 foot trailer. To view pictures of this unit simply go to cookshack, click on forum, scroll down to professionals, hit search and type in 2 greyhound rig pics we hope.
And those are my professional credentials of which i am quite proud.
jack

BQ Matt
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 09/21/06 4:52 AM
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Hey Prisonchef-

I was joking, but since you posted them, very impressive credentials! The joke I was making was from a topic that got everyone in an uproar on Ray Basso's forum 6 months ago or so. I figured this forum has some of the same readers and might find it funny.

Anyway, since you've cooked on the SP rotis. units, and the CS 150, was there something specific you were wondering about the 350? I've not cooked with the SP "oven" type models, just the rotis.

I'd be happy to try to answer any questions if I can.

prisonchef
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Thu, 09/21/06 10:19 PM
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matt,
i know from my experience that the electrics tend to cook "wet". to overcome this and match the product coming out of my fec100 i added additional sugar to the rub but still wasn't real happy with the outcome. it was close but no cigar. my 260 buddy up in north carolina gave me a solution which was to lower the hood to the unit which sped up airflow. worked like a dream and after much fiddling around i was able to match the products. my question is an sm150 cooks wet and from i have heard a 260 is wetter. is the 360 on full load even wetter than that?? i truly can not see us using an fec model for heavy commercial use as i know after 3 years of using a 100 it will in no way shape or form accomodate my cooking style. i like the sm models but sure am not adverse to using an southern pride in a restaurant setting.
thanks for any help
jack

bassrocker4u2
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Sun, 10/1/06 6:31 AM
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interesting. your electrics are wet, and my gas/wood is dry. its a constant battle for me to keep moisture in the meat. i am always putting water in pans, for moisture. perhaps a solution, it two smokers. one wet, and one dry. weird, but think about it. start out with wet(electric) smoker for 6 or seven hours, then switch meat over to a gas/wood smoker(already up to temp), for remaining 3-5 hours.
we might be on to something......

John A
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RE: CS SM 150 -All positive and negative input neeeded - Mon, 10/2/06 6:45 AM
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I have a Smokin Tex for Butts & Beef and a Traeger 124 for Chicken & Ribs because of their wet vs dry characteristics.

John