Cheater Ice Cream Containers (1.75 quarts)

You know that movie when the guy tells you to go to the window and shout "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"? (Network, by the way)...

Breyers (with a B) in my opinion is the best commercial ice cream available known for it's quality ingredients... has gone to the CHEATER container (the square containers that, when they came out, advertised themselves as "same size as half gallon" but have since delivered 1.75 quarts). I saw it coming when the cheaper brands started going that direction. I had hoped Breyers would have more class than to follow others down the cheat the consumer road... but...

Maybe it's just me, but I think the 1/2 gallon size should be sacred-- just as if it were milk (e.g., pint, quart, 1/2 gallon, gallon). I am getting tired of the shorted containers hitting the market (as manufacturer trail balloons-- can we get away with this?).

Most of the blame has to go back on the consumers who just shrug their shoulders. I have asked other customers as they load the cheater containers into their carts if they noticed the size and am amazed many haven't. Those that have-- so far-- big surprise, no one likes being shorter but no one was complained.

For those that love ice cream (I do)-- I implore you: Write a letter! Email! Complain! I suggest Breyers in particular because if you read their web page, you can feel the reluctance and can smell the guilt. Write Breyers. I suggest you open with "I almost bought your ice cream today..."

{I edited this message, I refered to the cheater container as a "pintless" when it is a cup less, not a pint. }

Bil Burton, aka Bootstrap <-- so Unilever can find me


I also added the URL to their comment line (intrusive as it is).
http://www.icecreamusa.com/contact_us/question.cfm


I suggest pen & ink is the way to go, I will try to find the "most responsive" contact person and add it.

I have also filed a complaint with Consumer Protection in my state. (No, I got nothing else better to do). I know they will say as long as it is correctly labeled (size) but I am taking it down a "deceptive advertising" route, since when the cheater container first came out, it was labeled as "same size as your old half gallon container".

Oh well. 1.75 quarts for less than three dollars ain't that bad of a deal.

Breyer's is just another of the many pumped full of air and other weird stuff. I'll stick to my Dove bars, that's real ice cream.

quote:

Originally posted by jeepguy

Breyer's is just another of the many pumped full of air and other weird stuff. I'll stick to my Dove bars, that's real ice cream.

Oh, really?

I'll stick with their French vanilla.

I just got snail mail from Unilever explaining why they went to the cheater carton (difficult decision, remain competitive, 135 years quality, yaddah, yaddah). They of course sent me a coupon for a half gallon... whoops a 1.75 quart ... which (much to my son's disappointment...) I am sending back.

But if you are inclined to drop them snail mail (I think makes a bigger splash), send them to:

Jill Dougherty
909 Packerland Drive
PO Box 19007
Green Bay WI 54307- 9007


(having problems replying to post...)

So how much cheaper is a 1.75 qt carton (meaning cost pf packaging) on an incremental basis? Less? Probably a little, but as far as I can see, the real reason is that the price charged at retail (and most likely, at wholesale too) for the 1.75 qt. container is less, but not as much less as the reduction in the quantity of the product. In other words, just another way for the consumer to get screwed!

Wally

Quantity lower. Price lower. $4.99 for 1/2 gal. vs. $2.98 for 1.75 qts. Duh. That seems a pretty good deal 2 me. OR am I missing something here???

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

Quantity lower. Price lower. $4.99 for 1/2 gal. vs. $2.98 for 1.75 qts. Duh. That seems a pretty good deal 2 me. OR am I missing something here???

You can't seriously think a sale price of $2.98 or $3.98 or 2 for $7 or whatever is going to be the final retail price? Not really? I have a letter in my hand that explains the justification was to lower cost. The retail price did not change when the package got smaller and (here) is usually just over $5.00.

Bootstrap, welcome to roadfood! Only the newly discovered extinction of the freshwater White Dolphins in the Amazon River has me more saddened than what Breyers is doing.
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Bootstrap

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

Quantity lower. Price lower. $4.99 for 1/2 gal. vs. $2.98 for 1.75 qts. Duh. That seems a pretty good deal 2 me. OR am I missing something here???

You can't seriously think a sale price of $2.98 or $3.98 or 2 for $7 or whatever is going to be the final retail price? Not really? I have a letter in my hand that explains the justification was to lower cost. The retail price did not change when the package got smaller and (here) is usually just over $5.00.

The regular RETAIL price I pay for Breyer's 1.75 qts. IS $2.98 per container, sir. Everyday, 24/7.

You say you were paying $4.99 for 1/2 gallon.

And, when they changed to the smaller container, Breyers lowered the price by forty percent, and that it has stayed there ever since?

Got it-- I can see why you are pleased.

But for the people of Earth, that hasn't happened. Here, Breyers moved to the square carton with some fanfare (it did fit better into the freezer), made efforts to assure everyone it contained the same amount of ice cream as its old container, sold it as a half gallon for some time, and, after establishing that container as being the same size, shaved off some weight.

I have not seen any balloons on the lid announcing "New, smaller size!"

You obviously have a business opportunity. Everyone else has to pay MSRP-- over $5 here. I am reflecting what happen here, to me, an Earthling. What happened to me was Breyers lowered the amount of ice cream in its standard size and did not lower the MSRP. I do not count sales and I do not count introductory prices. I do not count the time I bought Breyers for $1 when my retailer's freezer broke down.

I have a letter from Breyers acknowledging why they moved to the smaller container-- it was to cover the raising cost of its ingredients.

"You say you were paying $4.99 for 1/2 gallon.

And, when they changed to the smaller container, Breyers lowered the price by forty percent, and that it has stayed there ever since?

Got it-- I can see why you are pleased."

Actually, I WAS paying $4.99 for (the 1.75 qt) that until my Super-Walmart came into the picture, about a year or so ago. I only buy 2 flavors, Strawberry and Coffee. The vanilla is good also, but not 4 me on a regular basis. Hagen-Daaz is also cheap in price compared to other vendors here.

Agreed: I don't buy a whole lot of things from Wally's. Catfood and ice cream; yes I do.

I don't buy anything from Walmart. I have health care and would feel guilty knowing part of the money I save off anything I buy comes out of the employee's pockets. The retailer I buy ice cream from (or used to) pays health care.

And a number of other reasons why I wouldn't buy anything there but I don't want this thread to go off topic.

I don't know what you paid where-- I would just suggest you have to compare apples with apples. The price went up per serving and, in my opinion, the packaging was and continues to be deceptive.

Well. Good for you. And I did compare apples with apples, sir. Also: I don't eat veal, but that's an ethical decision, not an economic one. I think that many people forget that if some citizens choose to work @ places such as Walmart --->> Well, that is THEIR decision, not mine.

Wal-mart is the largest employer in the US. When they refuse to pay health care, the employees either do without, or the taxpayers pick up the tab. When people work for Wal-mart, it is often because they have to put food on the table and there are no other jobs available. Often, there are no jobs available because Wal-mart blows into smaller markets and puts other small companies out of business and ironically, Wal-mart picks up their employees (and pay them less and doesn't provide health care).

Wal-mart is the largest employer in the US. A person who does not eat veal should be able to understand the ethical connection; should be able to see when he or she pays $2.46 cents for something everyone charges $3.29, it comes out of the pocket of the person who is wringing him/her up or standing at the from door giving pleasant greetings. If he smiles, it is probably gas (he can't be thinking about his benefits).

So you know, I don't eat veal either. I don't eat cow, sheep, pig, kangaroo, German Shepards anymore (though they are rather tasty), nor parakeets.

But to bring it back to the thread-- I don't eat Breyers and won't while they continue to use the cheater cartons.

Prices aside, here in NC, most of the major brands and also the store brands have switched to the smaller carton. I actually noticed this a year or so ago,when my ice cream pies weren't coming out right. I believe the exception in this area is Blue Bunny, which seems to have a lot of air anyway.

So, please forgive my curiosity, but why is your argument with Breyer's? Are all of the others in your area still 1/2 gallon?

And, just to note, I don't eat anything commonly kept as a house pet.

quote:

Originally posted by BunnySlippers

And, just to note, I don't eat anything commonly kept as a house pet.

Bunny! Yum!

I forgive your curiosity, BunnySlippers, if you forgive the cliché: it was the straw that broke the camels back.

I have been aware that discount ice creams had moved to the cheater cartons but I have (almost) always willing to either pay for quality or do without. The use of the cheater carton by Breyers came recently; I had been stewing privately.

Then last weekend, my yogurt (Brown Cow)-- also a quality product-- moved from 8 ounces to 6 ounces. What they have called "single serving" since they have been in business changed overnight. Now (according to them), "single serving" is 6 ounces. Not unlike Breyers, they were bought up a larger corporation that has been making an inferior product (Dannon) and did not care that it would run its reputation into the ground.

What some may call the dannonization of American yogurt...

My letter to the company president (of Brown Cow) brought to the surface my disappointment with Breyers. I have decided the best way to push back on this trend to hide price increases by reducing the volume (or changing the size or shape of the container) is to pick one product and lucky for Breyers (aka, Unilever), it is they.

When I started looking into this a few days ago, I did not really find very much. My motivation is let other consumers know that the problem is not with them: clearly, this trend to establish a "standard" size and then change the size is wrong, unethical, and (IMHO) fraudulent. I would like to let consumers know that they aren’t alone—should they do search (for example) for “1.75 quarts” and “ice cream” and “fraud”, they will find others that are similarly inclined.

I encourage them to join me and to take actions in their respect state’s attorney’s office (often under the heading “consumer protection”). We don’t have to take it…

P.S. I don't eat house pets, either. If my goat gets into my roses again, I will drag the BBQ out where he can see it. He isn't a house pet.

(why can't I see spelling mistakes first time I post?)

My main gripe with the "downsizing/price-lowering trend is with toilet paper. Has anyone else noticed how much bigger the paper tube holder in the middle is these days?

TP has always been over the place-- I have always looked at "sq feet" since I won't remember between purchases and (in this case) I don't have a particular favorite (just ones to avoid).

To bring it back to ice cream, as I did research on this, Breyers went to the smaller size because it still wanted to market itself as a quality ice cream, but did not want to go over the MSRP of $5 per unit.

It is very easy to see how the next time gas, or cocoa beans, or strawberries go up, the standard "1.75 quart" container (56 ounces?) will drop to 48 ounces.

How do I know this? Physic? No... I have seen 48 ounce containers.

Breyers isn't strictly all-natural anymore. From their web site:

A&W™ Root Beer FloatCraving a frothy root beer float? Save the glass and straw. We've got an unbeatable creamy vanilla ice cream swirled with A&W™ Root Beer

1.75 Quarts
Ingredients: ICE CREAM: MILK, SKIM MILK, CREAM, SUGAR, CORN SYRUP, REDUCED MINERALS WHEY, NATURAL FLAVOR, MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, GUAR GUM, CAROB BEAN GUM, CARRAGEENAN. ROOT BEER SHERBET SWIRL: SKIM MILK, SUGAR, WATER, CORN SYRUP, CREAM, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, GUAR GUM, CAROB BEAN GUM, POLYSORBATE 80, PURIFIED WATER, CARAMEL COLOR, RED 40, YELLOW 6, BLUE 1, ANNATTO.

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

quote:

Originally posted by jeepguy

Breyer's is just another of the many pumped full of air and other weird stuff. I'll stick to my Dove bars, that's real ice cream.

Oh, really?

Just like everything else in the USA, vote with your feet and your pocketbook.

Don't waste your time complaining, I doubt that they are going to change their policy because you spent 39 cents.

I hardly consider it a waste of time. To be sure, I shall and I have but unless you let them know you are unhappy, you are a tree that falls in the forest.

This kind of letter, also, is received as the voice of many (if one consumer takes the time and the 39 cents to mail a letter, he or she is voicing the opinion of thousands of others).

The American consumer doesn't always have to take what the manufacturer doles out.

Our Darigold brand here in the Northwest still sells their excellent product in 1/2 gal. containers. I thin I will send them a thank you note.
Regards

I just sent this e-mail to the Darigold Co.

Hello. I want to take the time to thank you for keeping the 1/2 gal. container. I think it is disingenuous the way the others have sneaked in the 1.75 gal. size. If you have to raise the price do it in the open. Not throught the back door.
Thanks
Jim Armstrong
Centralia, Washington.

I still getting over the 10.5 to 12 oz. pound of coffee[V}.

I knew that attempt at converting to the metric system had it's roots in nefarious guerilla marketing. The 'ol can't dazzale 'em baffle 'em trick run amock!

quote:

Originally posted by Pat T Hat

I still getting over the 10.5 to 12 oz. pound of coffee[V}.

I knew that attempt at converting to the metric system had it's roots in nefarious guerilla marketing. The 'ol can't dazzale 'em baffle 'em trick run amock!

hahahaha (insert knee slapping emoticon here).

Guess what? I used the "pound" coffee can example in my letter to "Breyers". I am not in favor of "big government"-- but I would like to see true standards set and if someone wants to sell something else, it should come with a big label (e.g., "we are ripping you off"). In particular, if a manufacturer changes its carton size, it should be required to prominently disclose the size. Serving portions should be DEFINED by the government, e.g., yogurt was 8 ounces until Danon came in with their substandard product and overwhelmed the market.

I have seen this topic now (as I searched further on Google). Hope to see it pop up more as Google search engine catches up the searches. I also see WIKI has an entry (which I edited to update the purchase by Unilever... not sure if or when that change is posted)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breyers

Here's another thread re: breyers: http://tinyurl.com/y9oka4

need spellchecker on this thing...

BTW, Jim, I did write to Darigold and suggest I would get some when I could find it.

quote:

Originally posted by BunnySlippers

Prices aside, here in NC, most of the major brands and also the store brands have switched to the smaller carton. I actually noticed this a year or so ago,when my ice cream pies weren't coming out right. I believe the exception in this area is Blue Bunny, which seems to have a lot of air anyway.

So, please forgive my curiosity, but why is your argument with Breyer's? Are all of the others in your area still 1/2 gallon?

And, just to note, I don't eat anything commonly kept as a house pet.

Around the Carolina's, Mayfield, Breyers, Edy's and Pet have all downsized, 1.75 liters, with a average price increase of .60 cents(seen a full dollar at some grocers). One company(dsd/vendor wise) has not-Blue Bell. Also, to be fair, the publix brand ice cream is still at 1.89 liters.
Not bad for a company in a portion of 16 states, to be 2nd in the nation for sales.

Hey-- fun, fun!

Do a Google search. Use "Breyers" and "cheat" or "cheater carton"

quote:

Originally posted by Bootstrap

You know that movie when the guy tells you to go to the window and shout "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!"? (Network, by the way)...
(snip)
For those that love ice cream (I do)-- I implore you: Write a letter! Email! Complain! I suggest Breyers in particular because if you read their web page, you can feel the reluctance and can smell the guilt. Write Breyers. I suggest you open with "I almost bought your ice cream today..."
(snip)
I have also filed a complaint with Consumer Protection in my state. (No, I got nothing else better to do). I know they will say as long as it is correctly labeled (size) but I am taking it down a "deceptive advertising" route, since when the cheater container first came out, it was labeled as "same size as your old half gallon container".

Prices go up. Containers get smaller. It stinks. I frown. Then I move on. Of all the worthy causes to fight for and injustices to fight against in this world, the price of ice cream is about as insignificant as it gets in my book.

Prices do go up, that's not my complaint. Not always do the containers get smaller. When manufacturers are deceptive about how they go about raising their prices-- such as making the container smaller, I don't feel bad complaining about it. There are lots of injustices in the world and, small as it is, you recognise that this is one of them. However, what is important to you doesn't have to be as important to me and vice versa. Right? My world does not revolve around this ice cream or ice cream containers but so far this has cost me about 70 cents and time I would otherwise spend in front of the TV. Whether or not that investment brings the world back the honest 1/2 gallon container, I don't know, but we can be sure your frown has not done a dang thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat T Hat

I still getting over the 10.5 to 12 oz. pound of coffee[V}.

I knew that attempt at converting to the metric system had it's roots in nefarious guerilla marketing. The 'ol can't dazzale 'em baffle 'em trick run amock!

Andy Rooney did a great bit on this a few years back. If it keeps up, a "pound" can will soon be 8 oz!! Anyway Dunkin Donuts, unlike the competition, still puts a pound in each bag.

In Massachusetts "unit pricing" has the store put the price per pound, ounce, liter or whatever on the store shelf. If you take the time to read it, package "size" can't fool you.

quote:

Originally posted by Bootstrap

However, what is important to you doesn't have to be as important to me and vice versa. Right?

Which is exactly why I said "in my book". This is a forum for opinions, and I was just stating mine. Good luck on your crusade for fairer ice cream packaging.

quote:

Originally posted by tmiles

In Massachusetts "unit pricing" has the store put the price per pound, ounce, liter or whatever on the store shelf. If you take the time to read it, package "size" can't fool you.

Ah, but there's the rub! The average consumer doesn't. Marketing knows this. Doesn't make it dishonest, just weaselly and distasteful!

I do some work in a business that spends thousands on big beautiful, colorful signage that explains the procedure, the goals, price, and potential outcome. Yet still the majority of my customers walk up and ask "uh whatta ya do here?". I sometimes tell them "Who me? Why I work here." I'll tell them to read my signs of which have been spent copious amounts of dough and have practically placed on their heads. I still need to spell it out because it would seem they can't be bothered, they're illiterate, or english is not their first language.
I'm in outdoor amusements in the summer, or I'm a carnie if you prefer. When I'm not putting out delicious fair food (Oh you know you love it!!!) I sometimes work games.

Some folks think this to be weaselly and dishonest yet I'm there not only with detailed expensive signage to be read, I'm also there to explain said sign and if need be read it word by word to them. Truth is, being open and honest works to my advantage. Pre-conceptions being what they are. I'll flat out tell you how to win. Who'd believe me?

Everyone walks up to a game expecting to get shafted and at the same time wants a Teddy Bear for two dollars. They don't but they won't(most of the time, win one for two that is). Thankfully for me!!
Point is I'm upfront just like that price to the ounce store sign in your local market. All one inch by three inches of it.
However as I said, I'm also there to explain it, to encourage reading it, understand it and tell them how to do it so there is no beef if (and most likely when) you walk away empty handed. If you ask I'll tell you that too. I'll tell you it's hard but I'll tell you how. Not that it does any good because I've obviously gotten over on someone. I'm not complaining because that's also the name of the "game" on my end. Mine are honest games of skill and as long as I spell it out, entertain you and give you a fair shot with a fair warning I've done my job. The difference in perception is what's fair. My business got nothin' compared to Madison Ave.

Is this "new and improved" store marketing technique dishonest?
Maybe not in a legal sense but they are definitly "getting over" on everyone when they choose not having to explain themselves or their game before the questions are asked. Is this fair? I don't recall any fair warning about changing what a "pound" of my coffee is. No sign 'splainin that around is there? Who knows how many I bought before I read the can. Would I have bought it anyway? Sure, but that's not the point! Maybe I'd have done more comparison shopping sooner. Ground my own sooner, who knows? Played a different game as it were. I had to figure out the game rules changed on my own.

It is a game ya know. Just like anything meant to seperate you from your money faster. At least in my business I don't pretend to be doing anything else and my customer KNOWS it! There are no pre-conceived notions about what your really getting. Teddy Bears and winning them don't come in half gallons and ounces. Customers aren't really expecting any more than what they get. If I'm doing my job I'll at least show you a good time, a few yucks and chuckles and just maybe a Teddy Bear as a bonus. If you read my sign (which you won't till I tell you to) you'll notice I don't sell them by the ounce and I don't re-package my product to be anything other than it is...A Big Dumb Bear!
I wonder if that could be a industry term or just a big time marketing metaphor?
Regardless...I'm guilty of being one too.

Getting your money's worth is all in your sense of perception.
You need the information to have that sense
That's real good advice to read them signs. Not every huckster, yuckster, carnie or the worse of them all, marketing executives, will read them or explain them to you. Reading comprehension is so important yet so under utilized in our society I find. I suspect I'm not the only one!


Now......

Hey Harry...Yeah you!!! Come on over here and let me show you how to play MY game!!! You can be a Winner, Winner, Winner!!!

There Ain't No Business Like Show Business!!!!

Well-- I guess someone is listening, and isn't very happy about it.

If you Googled for "cheater carton" yesterday, Google would point to this very page. Samething, 'breyers' & 'cheat' (and other combinations).

Try it now-- not only does Google not list it first, it can't find it at all.

Makes you wonder what other combinations are blocked, and how someone goes about persuading Google to not list what it would normally kick out on this kind of search.

I noticed something about Kraft mac & cheese-when it is on sale,that includes all the shapes,etc.Anyone of them,except the original(i.e.spirals)is a hell of alot less ounces.....

I see the biggest problem with cheater containers is that is screws up recipes already in circulation. BunnySlippers already mentioned it screwed up the pies she made with ice cream.

Another Unilever cheater container: their quart jar of Hellmann's mayonnaise is now 30 ounces.

One night I wanted to find out what happened to Dreamery Ice Cream. If you have nothing better to do, research the ice cream industry over the last 8 years or so, and the machinations, buyouts, plant swaps, brand divestitures, and FTC rulings that went on because of the near monopolization of the ice cream industry by foreign-owned Unilever and Nestle.

You are not going to beat them, but at least rip them off for some free product by complaining that your favorite recipe did not turn out right until you pulled all the containers out of the trash and saw they quietly reduced the product of one of the ingredients. The lawmakers are too meek to pass a law requiring that manufacturers of cheater container products put a label on the product for six months saying the quantity was reduced.

I never got around to cooking with ice cream. Maybe Unilever can start marketing cheater pie pans so recipes come out right using their cheater containers. :)

I hear what you are saying (about laws & just making a fuss) and most my friends (I mentioned that I have been complaining about it) say I should accept it.

The ones that don't know me very well... ;)

There are certain laws (federal & state) that govern (e.g.) ice cream (e.g.) milk fat content and (I think) overfill (how much air they can pump into it). I am going to try to find a receptive legislater somewhere so size can be defined. I hear what you are saying about some being "meek". To me, it is reasonable request, and sometimes... let me suggest if I was running for office there can be sure fire hits-- I think I could run for governor in this state with just one objective: honest half gallon ice cream containers and have a shot at winning. I am too fat from eating all this ice cream to have an affair and not smart enough to have an opinion about anything else so I can't disagree on anything.

;)

Maybe I can find an ear, maybe not. But if I made ice cream still in half gallons (hello Darigold), I would maarket the hell out of it. I already have some scripts playing in my head that would be very funny and they may be coming to a theater near you.

Or at least You Tube. Got a video camera?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that EVERYTHING Unilever sells has shrunk; not just Breyer's Ice Cream. Country Crock, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, Hellman's, Best Foods Mayo, and on and on and on...
It seems the company was in financial difficulty a few years back. Now their stock is up and the consumer gets scrrewed. One more example of the middle class being squeezed out in favor of rich SOB's. The economy is doing great--Just ask any rich guy.

Though Unilever is certainly a leader in cheating the consumer, it is certainly not the only one. I think I mentioned somewhere in the thread (or another nearby) that I think it is ultimately the responsibility of (here) the federal government to regulate volume of certain product containers, particularly. E.G., milk is sold in gallons, half gallons, quarts, pints, etc. Recently, my yogurt went from 8 ounces (cup- one serving) to 6 ounces (what Unilever calls one serving!(today, tomorrow, will it be five?)). Clearly, if we rely on the ethics of businesses like Unilever, they will do whatever they can do to screw us with these hidden price increases. The government does (as I have read and understand it) regulate (e.g.) ice cream to some extent, how much air they can whip into the product, overfill, what can be called "natural" (though I don't see much in the way of tara gum growing out in the front yard).

Well, I used to work for edy's/dreyers and they were the first ones to change to the 1.75 quart size. Breyers promptly took out a full sized ad in USA Today stating that they were still a half gallon and would not change. Everyone knew it wouldn't take long for them to jump on the bandwagon. Many food companies do so. Remember when you were a kid and a big mac seemed gigantic in your hand. Well, you may be bigger, but the big mac has shrunk significantly. Potato chips, candy bars, they all do it. That way they can keep the price the same, and squeeze more profit. Most times the amount of chance seems so small, in this case it was 8 oz or roughly one scoop. Well, that can mean millions to large manufacturer and it did to Edys/dreyers. This caused an unfair business advantage that breyers could not ignore. Visually, it looks no different from any of the other "half gallons" and people will unknowingly pay just as much. Anyhow, it's all about big money. Most home grown US food companies have been bought out by the mega giant non-US holding companies. Ben and Jerrys and Breyers by Unilever and Edy/dreyers by Nestle. Next time go to a mom and pop scoop shop. The ice cream and ingredient will be WAY fresher, and you'll keep a little guy in business.

I find it interesting, in going up and down this thread, that almost everyone seems to assume that the ice cream industry is just out to screw consumers. Has anyone considered the fact that the cost of doing business continues to go up, far beyond the price of the ingredients? There's transportation/fuel, energy, payroll, health insurance, infrastructure, food safety and security compliance, unstable raw milk pricing -- not to mention that dairy is the most heavily regulated food-related industry. In my experience, dairy is one of the most people-minded industries we have, but they can't give it away for free.

Jim Dudlicek
[url]www.dairyfield.com[/url]

Are you kidding? That's not the issue here. Raising prices is a normal part of changing economies.

Changing sizes, LOWERING quantities with no explanation and no change in price is where the deception occurs. They're not saying hey, we have to charge more, you know how it is. They're lowering the quantity with the idea that we're too careless and stupid (and sometimes we are) to notice. Don't pretend it's possibly 'in our best interests.'

quote:

I find it interesting, in going up and down this thread, that almost everyone seems to assume that the ice cream industry is just out to screw consumers. Has anyone considered the fact that the cost of doing business continues to go up, far beyond the price of the ingredients?

Funny, as I look and down the thread, I don't find anyone assuming the ice cream industry is trying to screw people because of increased price nor denying increased costs. I think people are upset because some in the ice cream industry are trying to screw people with the DECEPTIVE carton which Breyer's (et al) took out LARGE ADs and printed on the carton when they first came out that THEY WERE THE SAME SIZE, only the shape of the carton had changed.

After consumers accepted the new carton-- big surprise! YOU shrink the size of the carton. I don't see any large font proclaiming "New! Smaller Size!". Let's be honest (you can at least try to be honest)-- Unilever (et al) simply wanted to raise prices 12 percent and hoped no one noticed.

If you are not clear on the nature of this DECEPTIVE practise-- notice now (recently) the shape of the cheater carton has gotten TALLER but narrower. This is so it looks like the old carton.

Clearly what is needed is enforcement (or legislative action regulating the) of size standards by the government since the industry cannot be trusted to do it themselves. Funny how the serving size changes on single serving packages to match whatever size the industry is currently marketing.


I would like to add: what is particularly hurtful is that Breyers followed the trend. I understand that big business is big business and perhaps Breyers really stopped being Breyers after Unilever paid the check, but for those ice cream lovers (I think you missed what they had to say here because you have your own agenda) they are more SAD rather than angry. I am sure this is not lost on Unilever or they would have stamped their name proudly (as Donald Trump does on everything he owns). They do not do this; they play on the Breyers reputation until the voices that say French Vanilla tastes like rubber will cast aside whatever is left of the natural ingredient legacy in the name of a few more cents a share.

Sad.

You are just like one of my readers who every few months or so will send me an e-mail rant on this issue (which is long dead, by the way) while yearning for a return to the good ol' days when every town had its own creamery and everything was sweet and perfect -- which is fine. I love nostalgia, but it ignores the realities of modern-day business and marketing, which many like yourself broadly define with terms like "deceptive" just because they're not like they were before.

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Unilever (et al) simply wanted to raise prices 12 percent and hoped no one noticed.

You are misinformed if you believe that companies raise prices simply because they "want to." The host of factors I noted in my previous posting all figure into price increases.

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If you are not clear on the nature of this DECEPTIVE practise-- notice now (recently) the shape of the cheater carton has gotten TALLER but narrower. This is so it looks like the old carton.

Any packaging redesign must be done with great care so as to preserve the spirit of the brand and keep it recognizable to the consumer. A taller carton also yields more surface area for bolder graphics and a larger facing in the freezer case. Your assertion that it's done deliberately to deceive consumers is purely a product of your own distrust of big business.

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Clearly what is needed is enforcement (or legislative action regulating the) of size standards by the government since the industry cannot be trusted to do it themselves.

The last thing dairy needs is more regulation. Dairy is already the most regulated food-related industry. And what would be regulated? The size is clearly marked on the container, and nowhere on a 56-ounce scround does it say "half gallon." Your argument, as I understand it, is that a company is deceptive if it does not call attention to its product's perceived shortcomings -- not really the cornerstone of successful marketing. It's up to companies like Blue Bell and Purity to boldly proclaim their commitment to a full half-gallon and let consumers make their own decisions.

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I am sure this is not lost on Unilever or they would have stamped their name proudly (as Donald Trump does on everything he owns). They do not do this; they play on the Breyers reputation

Of course they "play" on Breyers' reputation -- that's why Unilever acquired the brand (along with Good Humor, B&J and others). I can't swallow your apparent assertion that as soon as a big company enters the picture, all is lost. If not for such transactions, many companies and brands would vanish, or at least not live up to their full potential. While many might feel that "going corporate" as such is the worst thing that can happen to a brand, for the most part it means a greater infusion of resources for capital improvements and new product development. It's not all mustache-twirling robber barons and 6-year-olds working in coal mines.

Jim Dudlicek

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Changing sizes, LOWERING quantities with no explanation and no change in price is where the deception occurs. They're not saying hey, we have to charge more, you know how it is. They're lowering the quantity with the idea that we're too careless and stupid (and sometimes we are) to notice.

Reducing the quantity is the alternative to raising the price. When the cost of production goes up, you either jack up the price on the same quantity or maintain price and reduce quantity. No deception, just simple economics. Bad PR, maybe. But do you expect a company to say, "Hey, everybody, we're giving you less!"

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(jim said)You are just like one of my readers who every few months or so will send me an e-mail rant on this issue (which is long dead, by the way) while yearning for a return to the good ol' days when every town had its own creamery and everything was sweet and perfect -- which is fine.

I am nothing like anyone else. Sad that some corporations treat customers with valid concerns as complainers who they choose to ignore, and ascribe characterizations such as "ranting". If anything (since you apparently did not read my first message), I am more loyal to my brands than most other people. I tend to stick with them long after most others have left. Case in point: Breyers.

And... the issue is not long dead, since, obviously, you and many others choose to participate in this thread.

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(boot said): Unilever (et al) simply wanted to raise prices 12 percent and hoped no one noticed.

(jim said)You are misinformed if you believe that companies raise prices simply because they "want to." The host of factors I noted in my previous posting all figure into price increases.

I am not at all "misinformed". The price was increased by reducing the size of the carton, that is a fact. We don't need to play a semantic game about the meaning of "want". I have not complained about valid price increases and have stated so already. When the costs go down, I don't see Unilever bringing back the 1/2 gallon container.

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(boot said): If you are not clear on the nature of this DECEPTIVE practice-- notice now (recently) the shape of the cheater carton has gotten TALLER but narrower. This is so it looks like the old carton.

(jim said)Any packaging redesign must be done with great care so as to preserve the spirit of the brand and keep it recognizable to the consumer. A taller carton also yields more surface area for bolder graphics and a larger facing in the freezer case. Your assertion that it's done deliberately to deceive consumers is purely a product of your own distrust of big business.

Curiously, the new style looks larger than the old style-- it was not created for convenience of the consumer. Consumers are catching on to the fact that the cheater cartons do not contain 1/2 gallon. I am confident that many if not most consumers even at this late date are still not aware that what they think are half gallons have been shorted.

When Breyers (et al) brought in the "Texas squat"-- it went out of its way to assure consumers that it contained 1/2 gallon. It has not taken any steps to let its customers that it has reduced the container size.

You know nothing about me or for that matter, my level of distrust (if any) of "big business" (as above you tend to cluster everyone who happens to disagree with you as complainers). My distrust here is with Unilever in particular, and it was earned by the deceptive practices that began after they purchased Breyers.

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(boot said): Clearly what is needed is enforcement (or legislative action regulating the) of size standards by the government since the industry cannot be trusted to do it themselves.

(jim said)The last thing dairy needs is more regulation. Dairy is already the most regulated food-related industry. And what would be regulated? The size is clearly marked on the container, and nowhere on a 56-ounce scround does it say "half gallon." Your argument, as I understand it, is that a company is deceptive if it does not call attention to its product's perceived shortcomings -- not really the cornerstone of successful marketing. It's up to companies like Blue Bell and Purity to boldly proclaim their commitment to a full half-gallon and let consumers make their own decisions.

Quite obviously, further regulation is needed if when companies like Unilever change the size and shape of its containers, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars assuring the public that the container contains the same amount of product as the old style, and then, after a few months, start delivering shorter weights.

Unilever-- rather than being upfront with price increases (valid or not) has chosen to put its corporate thumb on the scale.

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(boot said): I am sure this is not lost on Unilever or they would have stamped their name proudly (as Donald Trump does on everything he owns). They do not do this; they play on the Breyers reputation

(jim said) Of course they "play" on Breyers' reputation -- that's why Unilever acquired the brand (along with Good Humor, B&J and others). I can't swallow your apparent assertion that as soon as a big company enters the picture, all is lost. If not for such transactions, many companies and brands would vanish, or at least not live up to their full potential. {clip}

I made no such assertion; don't attribute to me something I did not say, it is dishonest. For some one who cannot find fault at reducing the size of a containing in order to raise price to the consumer, I am not surprised. However, I will ask that you try to work harder and be responsible for the conclusions that you yourself draw.

I do not find fault with "big business" since there are many companies that could be included under this umbrella and I try hard to avoid repeating such prejudices (though it can be difficult in threads when people are quoting and requoting). I try to be very specific and I will repeat here that my problem is not with "big business", my problem (here) is with the dishonest marketing practices of Unilever.

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(jim said)While many might feel that "going corporate" as such is the worst thing that can happen to a brand, for the most part it means a greater infusion of resources for capital improvements and new product development. It's not all mustache-twirling robber barons and 6-year-olds working in coal mines.

I don't want to get drawn into an "all big business bad" conversation, particularly if you start it and try to pass it off as something that I believe. Many big businesses are bad, and I guess more than a few are good. In this case, it seems to me, like many "big businesses", Unilever bought into a company knowing it had a stellar reputation, and knew it could play on that reputation, cutting the quality of product and level of service until the consumers caught on to it. People pay more for Breyers because it used to be better than other brands. It is quickly becoming just another brand in the freezer. Its reputation is tarnished and no one will be surprised to see Unilever dump it after consumers no longer consider it a quality product.

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Reducing the quantity is the alternative to raising the price.

Another is reducing the quality of the product. It is clear to everyone that Unilever is not adverse to doing either.

The honest approach, if forced to raise price, is to raise the price and not hide it behind this kind of carton scam.

The consumers will eventually catch on. Too bad for us we have to put up with this kind of marketing and with the people who think they can justify it.

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Originally posted by Bootstrap

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Reducing the quantity is the alternative to raising the price.

Another is reducing the quality of the product. It is clear to everyone that Unilever is not adverse to doing either.

The honest approach, if forced to raise price, is to raise the price and not hide it behind this kind of carton scam.

The consumers will eventually catch on. Too bad for us we have to put up with this kind of marketing and with the people who think they can justify it.

The issue is dead because it isn't one in the industry -- it's all old news -- and there's only a tiny minority of consumers worried about it. I joined the thread to share my insights of the industry.

Look, believe whatever you want to believe. The fact is -- and I've learned this through my contact with the industry -- ice cream companies did not come up with a "carton scam" as an excuse to raise prices. Production costs went up (and continue to do so), and they chose to decrease the size of the carton in order to more easily maintain their price point. As for the quality of the product, that's a matter of opinion. Be that as it may, Breyers continues to be the top-selling brand of ice cream in the United States, according to the latest IRI figures.

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Look, believe whatever you want to believe. The fact is -- and I've learned this through my contact with the industry -- ice cream companies did not come up with a "carton scam" as an excuse to raise prices. Production costs went up (and continue to do so), and they chose to decrease the size of the carton in order to more easily maintain their price point. As for the quality of the product, that's a matter of opinion. Be that as it may, Breyers continues to be the top-selling brand of ice cream in the United States, according to the latest IRI figures.

Thanks for giving me permission to have my own opinion.

You do not need contacts in the ice cream industry to know what happened, nor do you need a degree in business to drop buzz words like "price point controls" to say exactly what has been said already: Unilever changed the size of the carton because they wanted the raise the cost of their ice cream but did not want the consumer to notice.

Maybe you skipped the ethics course, just forgot what your were taught or, heck, copied off the guy's paper in front of you but the whole operations of shifting container sizes stank and continues to stink. Whether (or not) Breyers is number one selling ice cream or not does not make it right, and doesn't mean most consumers think what they did was right.

As far as it being a dead issue... I guess we will have to see. As I suggested before, the resolution is not in talking with people such as yourself who think the consumer is fair game as long as the weight is on the package somewhere, it is in talking to one's state legislators, people who also eat ice cream and who are looking for easy things to stand behind like outlawing ice cream cheater cartons.

I misspoke when I said "weight" was on the label (I meant volume). Weight isn't usually on the cartons out here... because ice cream manufactures can change the weight by pumping up the amount of air they put in the package.

What do your connections tell you is in the average carton today? It's my understanding it can be half air-- that's right, right?

Another way to control costs... fair game, eh?

Ice cream eaters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your spoons.

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Originally posted by Bootstrap

I misspoke when I said "weight" was on the label (I meant volume). Weight isn't usually on the cartons out here... because ice cream manufactures can change the weight by pumping up the amount of air they put in the package.

What do your connections tell you is in the average carton today? It's my understanding it can be half air-- that's right, right?

Another way to control costs... fair game, eh?

Fine, whatever. You have trumped my insight with suspicion and conjecture. Congratulations.

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Originally posted by Jim2903

You have trumped my insight with suspicion and conjecture.


Bravo!!! I have no idea what that means but Bravo any way!
That is a great line no matter what it means.
Not that I agree, how could I? I'm one of those "Big Business Bashers"! They're so afraid of the likes of me they surely have my interests at heart.

Nice "power point" with the price point as well.
This is a great discussion of ethics and how to talk them away with merchandising strategy.

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Fine, whatever. You have trumped my insight with suspicion and conjecture. Congratulations.

No need to get you nose out of joint. I think fairly said: you brought the sour tone of the discussion to the table. If you want something more civil, examine the language you are using.

Bootstrap I just found this Forum with a Google search. ( 10th page ) I see that I am not the only one who thinks that what has happened to Bryers Ice Cream, is more than just a Shame. It is no exaggeration when I tell you that I am "Heart Sick" about it. I am going to check out this Small place that is around this area. Who clames to make there own Ice Cream, to see if they realy do, but I am doubtful.
So I guess there is no longer any Ice Cream available any where that dose not contain Gums and Seaweed and other Slimey ( NOT CREAMY ) Non Ice cream Junk in it? I am Pissed!!!

It was last night that I discovered that now we only get 88% of a half gallon of ice cream for the 1/2 gallon price. When I buy ice cream I only buy the best and it just sickens me once again that without any fan fare whatsoever the consumer is getting screwed. How much outrage would there be if the package touted Now 12.5% less ice cream for the half gallon price!!!!!!! I'm probably being unrealistic though

$5.99 for a 1/2 gallon of Bryers in the local suppermarket these days.