Firearm lovers.

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Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 10/31/13 5:30 PM
Al,
I'm Ready , Willing and Able to make as many stops as possible , as long as I can make it to work on Monday.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/3/13 7:44 AM
Uncle Groucho and I had a fine  (and successfult) day at the auction yesterday.  I will post a couple of photos and a 'report' about the event later today.
Thanks to Karl for helping handle our purchases.
 
The folks at the auction House even reserved my Mayors chair for me this time.


Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/3/13 2:12 PM


Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/3/13 2:18 PM
"(H)andle our purchases"? That sounds interesting.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/3/13 2:51 PM
Michael
I am running on a low-energy day today... Sorry for the slow reporting speed, but I am worn out !  We came home with 6 new long guns, 10 handguns and about 1500 rounds of various caliber ammunition.
  The good news is we got some good bargains, so I came home 'under-budget for the day.   Photos will follow as I get the energy level up a bit.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/3/13 2:55 PM
Mr. Mayor, you just make sure you get your energy up. I'll gladly wait.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 11/6/13 9:48 AM
We are slowly bouncing back from a very active weekend that seemed to drain our energy, to say nothing about our checkbook!!
 
Thanks again to Karl, Uncle Groucho, who gave up a Saturday to accompany me to the auction, then act as a steveador and porter haulling our freight to the truck. It was much more than a learning experience for him !!!
We stopped at Shapiro's Deli in Indy on our way to the auction house. Ordered two of their fine sandwiches to go for a brown bag lunch during the auction.  Then finally got to enjoy them 7 hours later as we departed ! The speed of the auction required that we stay focused to what was happening rather than take a lunch break.  Those Beef on Onion Rolls were good, even after sitting in the truck for a long time.
Now to the auction- 455 lots of firearms, ammo, knives and other stuff.
   I bid and lost on several items, but here is the list of stuff we brought home.  I have not done my photo work yet, so those photos will be coming as we get time soon.
Not in any sort of priority order...
1. Colt 1911 Gov't 22lr 5" Blk
2. S&W 1911 E-series 45acp SS
3. Tokarev M57 pistol w/holster 
4. Charter  Arms Bulldog Liteweight 44 spl. 2.5"
5. Charles Daly Colt SAA Clone, 357 mag 5.5" SS
6. Marlin 60 rifle 22 lr, synthetic stock Blk
7. Ruger NMBH 50th Anniversary 44 mag 6.5" w/case
8. Marlin 980 B/A 22 magnum
9. Marlin XL/7 rifle 30-06 B/A
10. Mossberg 500 12 ga Hog Hunter pump shotgun BLK
11. Metro Arms 1911 45acp 5"
12. Glenfield 60 rifle 22lr blue & wood
13. Springfield/Colt 1911 custom build 1911 45 acp Blk/SS
14. Para Ordance 16-40 1911 style 40 S&W, Blk/SS dble stack mags
Then 17 lots of ammo usually in 2 and 3 boxes per lot.
So that's what I am working on to clean, photograph, and inventory at this point.
 
It was a fine day. I hope Karl had as much fun as I did.

Sundancer7
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 11/6/13 10:49 AM
Sounds like a fun expensive day and I hope you do real well on your sale.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 11/6/13 11:42 AM
Wow! Some good stuff there.

Poverty Pete
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 11/6/13 1:51 PM
I'll be taking Father Ryan's marching band to Indy next week, for the Grand National Championships.  I'll be having at least one meal at Shapiro's, since it's within walking distance of Lucas Field.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:11 PM
I took a few photos this afternoon as I was cleaning the dust off of the new inventory. Here are four of the 1911 clones I am ading to my collection, at least for now.
 
A keeper for sure is this Smith & Wesson 1911 E Series SS model


 
Here is a Colt 1911 22 lr made in Germany by Walther (under license)

 
Kind of a freak 1911  a custom Sringfield frame and Colt barrel and slide team up to be a unique gun


 
and finally (for now) An American Classic Commander

 
More coming as I get better organized.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:19 PM
I really like that S&W. How does the fishscale feel?

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:19 PM
I really like that S&W. How does the fishscale feel?

Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:32 PM
It feels AWESOME , and it is quite attractive in person.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:34 PM
I like the idea of the pattern.

Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:43 PM
Al described it to me on the trip up and I did not comprehend what he meant, but seeing it and holding it was pretty neat. The man that bought the other one talked to us in the parking lot , he said after you shoot this gun you would never want to shoot a Colt ever again! His words not mine.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:47 PM
... and I'm still hanging onto my Combat Commander.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:53 PM
I bought one last year for a neighbor and didn't want to deliver it...so this one is for me !! All four have the feel of the 1911 that I really enjoy shooting.
Also got a Para Ordanance 16-40  same shape, but in 40 S&W caliber with a double stack mag that holds 14+1.  Three revolvers, Another Charter Bulldog Snubby in 44 spl. A Ruger NM Blackhawk 44 mag, and a Charles Daly 357 SS Colt SAA Clone that will go as soon as I can list it. I really don't care for the feel of the SAA. The Ruger is so much better 'for me'.

Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 5:57 PM
Dear Santa,
All I want for Christmas is......

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 6:14 PM
It doesn't seem to be working for me. lleechef keeps saying, "I can't hear you."

CajunKing
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 10:38 PM
MH - She gets her new stove and coach bag you get a "new" hand gun or two, we know she wont mind shooting it with you either it could be a his & hers gift

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 11/7/13 11:08 PM
CajunKing


MH - She gets her new stove and coach bag you get a "new" hand gun or two, we know she wont mind shooting it with you either it could be a his & hers gift


Last year she got a Competition Ruger .22 for Christmas. But I don't think I'm deserving of the same sort of thing.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Fri, 11/8/13 5:41 AM
Michael,
  You're on the right track , using the 'humble' approach...That works for me every time !!
Back to the 1911's for a minute.  The Sprngfld/Colt custom gun has an extra strong spring in it..like the one in my 45 Super. I got the gun apart and did a cleaning job on it, but I am having a difficult time getting it back together...Neighbor will assist later this morning.  Hands a bit to shakey to hold the spring steady while getting the bushing and button in place.
 
Here is the Para 16-40 40 S&W-



mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Fri, 11/8/13 11:04 AM
OK Here are the revolvers.
A 50th Anniversary Ruger New Model BlackHawk 44 magnum

A Charles Daly 357 magnum Colt SAA Clone,
A Pair of Charter Bulldogs in 44 spl. and a Taurus SS Large Frame 44 spl.
 

 

 

 
I will get to the long guns eventually.  There are 2 22lr's, one hog-12 ga. one B/A 30-06, and an interesting  B/A 22 magnum  photos soon.
 

Tampico
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Fri, 11/8/13 11:11 AM
mayor al


OK Here are the rvolvers.
A 50th Anniversary Ruger New Model BlackHawk 44 magnum
A Charles Daly 357 magnum Colt SAA Clone, A Pair of Charter Bulldogs in 44 spl. and a Taurus SS Large Frame 44 spl.


 
The choice of David Berkowitz aka Son of Sam. I think Charter Arms might be back in business.
 
 What did you pay for the Marlin XL7 in 30-06? Remington bought them and the Pre-Remington Marlins are excellent guns for the price.
<message edited by Tampico on Fri, 11/8/13 11:13 AM>

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Fri, 11/8/13 3:59 PM
Tampico
 The Marlin sells in the $300-$350 range on the resale market. I got this one for $250...30-06 rifles other than Garands are not in much demand here in Indiana, due to the caliber limits for hunting guns.
It is like new and will go on my Armslist listings shortly.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 11/16/13 6:46 PM
I completed an ARMSLIST transaction today--- trading my Norinco .223 AK rifle for some cash and a Taurus PT945 45acp pistol. The pistol is a double/single action version of the the1911 Commander style semi-auto.
No polymer, It is all SS with gold-colored accessories- trigger-hammer-safety-mag relaease- decocker and slide lock, and some rosewood grips.
It does look like a Hollywood 'Pimp-Gun !!  As pretty as this is it may be a keeper, if it shoots good also.

 


Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 11/16/13 6:59 PM
Very nice. The grips are the frosting.

CajunKing
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 11/16/13 7:53 PM
even with the flash - looks like a solid hand gun
love the growth pattern on the rosewood

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 11/17/13 11:10 PM
I did a reshoot of the photos to let you see how the gun looks in a 'less flashy' light.
I hope to get to shoot it soon, now that the tornado sirens have let up.
Here's the Mayor's new 'Flash'

 

 

 






 
   
 


Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Mon, 11/18/13 12:09 PM
I think it looks lovely, Mr. Mayor. Sort of like a downsized Desert Eagle dressed for a night on the town.

Sundancer7
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/18/13 1:53 PM
  Here is a selfie that I just took this morning.  A red bellied woodpecker has spent a month drilling a perfectly round hole for a spring nest.  Starlings have a nasty habit of pestering the bird until it leaves the work.  I was intent on sending them to visit with Jesus and I discovered that I had no 12 guage shells.  I jump in the truck to buy some shells.  I had no intention of buying anything else.  I got there and saw this neat belt just like the one I always wear which is a natural leather pistol belt with very heavy leather for $80.00.  I had to have it and then I saw this neat Marlin semi automatic .22 long rifle with a composite stock.  Oh well I had to have it also and some ammo.  I bought the 12 gauge shells and came on home a few dollars shorter.  Loaded the shot gun which was dad's 12 gauge Browning that I had never shot.  Went outside and the Starlings were gone.  Lucky them.  Not a very good selfie though.
 

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN
<message edited by Sundancer7 on Wed, 12/18/13 1:59 PM>

Root-Beer Man
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/18/13 3:46 PM
Mayor Al, that is one nice looking Taurus! Let us know how it shoots. I have a Taurus MilPro in .45 that I use for my EDC. Yours looks a lot nice, tho!

Uncle Groucho
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/18/13 6:31 PM
Sundancer , did you at least break the cherry on that Browning?

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/18/13 6:31 PM
Paul, Let me know how you like that Browning...Those are fine shotguns and really do a nice job of making shooting a pleasure.
 
Uncle Groucho and I will be headed for a firearms auction on New Years Day...among the items I have an interest in is a second one of these Taurus 945's in the same finish and trim. It looks to be going cheap (as of now)...plus they have several Henry Big Boys and Golden Boys rifles...45 LC, 44 Mag, 22 Mag, 17 Mag as some 22 LR. Depending on how the bidding goes  I hope to add a couple to my guncase.
We will report back on the results of the sale.

Sundancer7
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 12/19/13 4:59 AM
Uncle Groucho


Sundancer , did you at least break the cherry on that Browning?

 
I still have not fired the Browning 12 light.  It was made in Belgium.  I have no idea of the age but my guess is about 50  years.  My dad bought it new and he rarely used it.  It is in pristine condition.  I thought about selling it but I have no idea of the value.  My guess is not very much.
I was prepared to shoot it and I had my ear protectors on but the starlings left.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN


mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 12/19/13 9:52 AM
Paul
Your shotgun is worth between $700 and $1400 depending on condition. It is a very nice gun and quite popular in hunting situations. If you email me a detailed description I can research the value a bit better for you.
AL

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 12/19/13 4:29 PM
I posted my Springfield Long-Slide 45 Super Pistol on Armslist for sale on Tuesday, Today It sold to a guy in New York. I will take it to a local FFL for shipment after receiving payment.   Internet shopping is an interesting hobby.

CajunKing
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Mon, 12/23/13 6:33 PM
Just read the article about Mikhail Kalashnikov passing away at age 94.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/rif...dead-94-163848393.html
 
He never patened the design and never made the millions that other gun designers have.  He did it for his country.  He was an interesting man, I have read several of his books

tmiles
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Tue, 12/24/13 3:07 PM
CajunKing


Just read the article about Mikhail Kalashnikov passing away at age 94.

http://news.yahoo.com/rif...dead-94-163848393.html

He never patened the design and never made the millions that other gun designers have.  He did it for his country.  He was an interesting man, I have read several of his books

He couldn't patent it, even had the USSR recognized patents. He was a federal worker who designed it on company time. He did get promoted to general officer rank, and so got a pension. The AK-47 is not especially accurate, and it is heavy compared to western 5.56 rifles, but it is idiot proof and cheap. I have handled one, but never got to fire it.
 
I saw it demonstrated in the summer of 1969, as a college boy at OCS summer camp. It is  hard to hold on target at full auto as compared to the early M16s that the US was using at the time, but it never jammed. The AK could be rubbed into the dirt and still fire. The M16 was a far better rifle, but only if given excellent care, and lubrication with LSA, a special lubricant. Get it muddy, and it wasn't even a good club. At OCS, our training rifle was the M14, a gun that used the same round as the AK47.
<message edited by tmiles on Tue, 12/24/13 4:21 PM>

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Tue, 12/24/13 5:21 PM
The AK 47 and the M14 do not use the same caliber ammunition. The M14 uses 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) ammunition while the AK fires 7.62×39mm ammunition.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Tue, 12/24/13 8:08 PM
There are some major differences in thinking when it comes to the concepts of military long-guns that have evolved over the years.
The USA has held to the longer range, bigger caliber rifle of the WWll era thru Korea and into Vietnam, then switched to the less expensive smaller, lighter, shorter range 'assault rifle' concept for it's main battle rifle
The other side mainly the USSR but includes many other countries, looked for the mass-produced, cheaply made shorter range, no-maint. type of "junk" gun, with the AK platform becoming the backbone of that school of thinking.
 
We moved from the 30-06 to the 7.62x51mm (.308win) to lighten the weight of the ammo the troops would carry without changing the basic combat range of the MBR.  Then we made the jump to the 5.56mm (.223cal) with the M-16 to give the troops a direct response to the AK's shorter and lighter round. Now the new AK's are also a 5.56mm round  and a plastic stock and forearm to lighten the gun and make it a match for the M-16/M4 of today's US Military.
 
As an Old Guy, I tend to think in terms of the 7.62x51mm as being the ideal compromise between size, range, weight and cost.   But there are valid arguments for the AK round and the US's 5.56mm as well.

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/25/13 12:49 AM
Mayor Al, I'm interested in buying a gun or two. How does it work with Armslist or should I just go to the site and figure it out. Thanks

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Wed, 12/25/13 8:31 AM
Texascajun
  Armslist is a simple classfied listing arrangement.. no fees for listing, and they take no liability for scams or 'legalities'. 
As a buyer, you find the gun you are looking for...hopefully within your State and within a reasonable drive distance, establish communication with the seller, work out a deal and a meeting place and then make a face-to-face transaction.  I have done dozens of them and have only a couple that 'fell thru' with the other guy not showing up...and one where the buyer turned out to be 15 years old...(I did not complete the sale).
 
If you want to buy from an out of state listing there is a bit more "risk" of having a scam posting trying to get your money then not sending the gun. I always speak directly with the seller on the phone before sending money on a deal.  Actually I sell quite often that way,  but I don't buy much from the out of state on-line deals.
 
I will deliver my Springfield 45 to a local gunstore tomorrow (I received a bank check yesterday in the mail)...My local FFL will ship it to a dealer in Buffalo, NY where my Armslist Buyer will then pick it up from his FFL Dealer. That way we have a tracking record of the transaction that covers both the buyer and me regarding the legal aspects of a transaction. I charge the buyer the amount of the shipping and transfer fees (about $40)  I do a lot more face to face deals than 'shipping' deals. But Armslist has worked ok for me...I am retired and have the time to keep the communications moving on my 'deals'.
 
Hope that helps...I also used gunbroker and guns america..but they have rather complex fee systems  that I got tired of dealing with. Sort of like selling on Ebay...I don't do that anymore either.
AL

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 12/26/13 1:00 AM
Thank You Mayor Al, I will check it out tonight. It sounds easy. I want a good revolver for my wife, prob. a 357 and hope to find a good deal. 

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 12/26/13 8:21 AM
Smith & Wesson makes some light weight 357's which can also shoot the less potent 38 special.
 
Taurus does also. and some of their guns are quite  reasonable in price.

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Fri, 12/27/13 11:56 PM
Thanks again mayor Al. I looked at a 357 Taurus at Academy for that reason -- her using the 38 ammo. I could get the gun (It was expensive), but they couldn't tell me when we could get ammo. I'm going to check armslist for the gun and hopefully some ammo so we don't have to throw it at the targets. My wife loves to shoot and finding some ammo is really hard here. I can do great with shotgun shells and shells for my 30/06 but she doesn't want to target shoot with the shotguns and the 30/06 shells get expensive. I bought her a crossbow for her birthday and she's having a blast with it and I'm saving money as she can reuse the bolts endlessly. 

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 12/28/13 11:37 AM
You're still having trouble with ammunition shortages there? No problems at all here in Central Ohio that I know of.

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 12/28/13 2:07 PM
I know it's crazy. I keep hoping things will get back to normal here soon. Shells for my .22's are unavailable. I have heard that a lot of people are buying up certain rounds as soon as they hit the stores and selling them on Facebook and other sites, I can't verify that as its hearsay. WalMart told me to get there as soon as the shipment comes in as there will be people there to get all of certain rounds. I can't as I work 14 hour days lately. I still say the market will even out here soon and all will be back to normal. 

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 12/28/13 3:45 PM
Amazing.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 12/28/13 4:04 PM
In the Louisville area prices are quite high...if they have various calibers in stock. Not a real shortage...but when they get a shipment in they ration the sales 1-3 box max in a day....depending on the store. Our local gun stores seem to have adequate supplies, as does the Cabelas in L-ville.
 
One of the reasons we are headed for the auction next week is that 400 of the 900 lots listed are for ammo of various types and calibers. Some is already more pricey than I want to pay...but some lots are holding in the reasonable area and I will try to get some of them.  The internet bidders get hit with shipping Plus a 15% buyers premium...I avoid both of those by attending the live auction. I have to pay the 6% sales tax, but thats the only fee forbuying other than the winning bid.
 
Uncle Groucho and another friend of mine are headed to Indy with me, to participate in the auction on New Years Day.
Here's the list as it stands Saturday, 4 days before the live auction. The ammo is listed on pp 5-9.
https://www.proxibid.com/...amp;ipp=100&sort=0

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sat, 12/28/13 11:37 PM
That could be correct for the gun stores around here also. I am never off work during the gun store hours so WalMart and Academy are my main choices. I just returned from WalMart as my daughter has mono and wanted chicken soup. They didn't have the 22 LR's, .357 or .38 that I wanted.  The auction has a good variety. I like that little Ruger 357 on page 1. That looks like a good gun for the wife and they have ammo for it on the later pages.  Thanks a lot for the link and the information Mayor Al.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 12/29/13 9:34 AM
Remember to calculate the Buyers Premium (15%) and the shipping charges to an FFL near you, if you decide to bid on line. That adds a pretty good amount to the winning bid cost.  If you go to the Proxi-bid home page, select firearms auction under 'Catagories', you can scroll thru the coming auctions..there are several in Texas...If you find one that has what you want, and it is close enough...go to it (live bid). That way you can inspect the gun(s) to see if they are in good condition before bidding...plus you skip all the extra fees.
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/firearm-auctions.asp
AL

Texascajun
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Sun, 12/29/13 11:25 AM
That sounds great Mayor Al. I will try to do one of the Texas auctions and save some money. Thank You for all your help!

RKB
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Mon, 12/30/13 12:18 PM
I was surprised to see reloaded 45ACP listed there, in plastic bags, with no indication of the loader having an '06 FFL. Selling reloads for profit without a license is a federal offense, not to mention the liability issue.
I personally would never shoot anyone's reloads other than my own, and will not load for anyone else.
I might have to attend that auction though, that browning Superposed 20ga on pg 3 looks interesting, as do a couple of the Winchester Model 42's and Model 12's.
Where is the auction held?
Bill

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Re:Firearm lovers. - Mon, 12/30/13 9:07 PM
I am going to get Mayor Al out of retirement and get him to learn me how to post pictures and links.  " Freijeauctioneers . com ".
I had a good time at the last auction and look forward to this one , bring a pen and a scratch pad , they talk fast and move right along.

mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Mon, 12/30/13 11:46 PM
Bill
F & F Auctions is on US 40 a couple of miles west of Clayton, IN.
Come across I-70 from Ohio, thru Indy,  to Exit 59 (Indiana Rt 39)...go North a couple of miles to U S 40 turn west about 3 miles, The auction house sits on the right side of the highway in a rural-farming area.
    Click on the link I posted earlier and click on the web-address at the top of the page . Follow the instructions for map and directions.
There will three of us in our little group.  The folks at the sale have a big lazy boy chair set up for me, we are old friends and they take good care of us.  If you go , please look for us and introduce your self, We always enjoy company and meeting our RF friends.  I am a big guy with a walking cane, usually wear a vest with patches all over it. We should arrive about 11:30 am to give us time to inspect the guns of interest.
See you Wed.
 
 

eruby
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Tue, 12/31/13 6:55 AM
Uncle Groucho


I am going to get Mayor Al out of retirement and get him to learn me how to post pictures and links.  " Freijeauctioneers . com ".
I had a good time at the last auction and look forward to this one , bring a pen and a scratch pad , they talk fast and move right along.
Not trying to step on toes Uncle Groucho, here is the link for Freije Auctions. 
 
http://freijeauctioneers.com/
 
For links, just copy the address in the page title bar and paste.  Click 'allow access' if you get the pop up box.
 
As for pictures, photobucket is an easy, and free hosting site.
 
http://photobucket.com/


mayor al
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Tue, 12/31/13 9:39 AM
Thanks Eruby,
We'll do our best to school'em, but if he hears it from someone other than a teacher, he'll pay more attention !!  hehehe
Tomorrow at this time we will be on the road !! Looking forward to the trip.

RKB
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Re:Firearm lovers. - Thu, 01/2/14 8:51 AM
Al,
Sorry I could not make it, someone else had plans for me
That Superposed went for less than I expected, I would have liked to check it out, they are great skeet/clays guns and I have always wanted a nice 20ga. Now that I can afford one, they seldom show up on the market in good condition. Ah well.
I'll keep watching this post, hopefully we can meet up in the future.
Bill

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