Helpful ReplyHot!Firearm lovers.

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Post
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/17 20:42:59
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

I spent a couple 3 hours at a state run range today it's about a 30 minute drive from my home up in the hills above my house. I go there because my membership range doesn't allow rapid fire. I wanted to test out the Ram-Line 50 round 10/22 mags I have. I have 2 that are 10+ years old and 2 that are brand new. The 2 new ones worked fairly well but the 2 old ones were crap. They didn't want to bring the bullet high enough to feed.

MikeS.

I have a couple of those, and while I haven't used them in several years, they did work well at the time.

By the way, speaking of hi-cap magazines. I got word a little while ago that my grandson just qualified Expert during field training exercises in Korea with the M2, M249, Mk 19 and M203. He qualified Expert with the M16 in Basic.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/17 22:00:52
Ok, so what are those?
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/17 22:22:04
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

Ok, so what are those?

The M2 is the .50-caliber Browning machine gun. The M249, or SAW, is a 5.56mm (.223-caliber) light machine gun, the Mk 19 is the automatic grenade launcher, which is, in effect, a grenade machine gun, and M203 is the single shot grenade launcher that attaches to an M16.
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/18 16:03:22
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

Ok, so what are those?


Adult "toys" perfectly described by Mr. Hoffman. These "toys" are one of the reasons IED's are the preferred weapon by the enemy in Iraq. Directly attacked a squad of American servicemen/ servicewomen can "unleash H**l" in a way that almost...almost...makes you feel sorry for the other guys. Call in air support and we are talking a major bad day for the bad guys. So they use explosives in road side devices. Not a cowardly move but a wise one if you want to go home that night.

The Irgun and Haganah waged bombings in the middle forties...Menachem Begin (later Prime Minister if Israel) commanded the bombing of the King David Hotel in July of 1946. This was not a terrorist bombing?

BTW I am Presbyterian. Israel was born from terroist bombings, against the British and the Arabs. I will admit they were a bit more restrained...kill a Jew we kill and Arad.

Time to get off the soap box.

BTW the Uzi is a piece of crap right up there w/ the Chinese AK. Spits out a bunch of bullets but control is almost impossible. The Bulgarian AK is a wonderful milled as opposed to a stamped weapon and actually hits what you aim at. The Brazilian 1911 knock offs are also great pieces.
prisonchef
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/21 15:56:19
v960,
better never let peggy hear your thoughts on an uzi. she loves hers and does all the maintance on it. she can rebuild it blindfolded and has practiced with it enough that every round goes to within an inch of aim point at 50 yards. while i do not care for the thing myself i will admit that it goes bang everytime and that's more than i can say for the 16 that i got in 69!!!! 3 shots and jam 3 shots and jam!!! got a 12 gauge wingmaster and the old man sent shells in my care package said he learned the same thing on guadalcanal with an m1!!! to this day i still feel that the suppliers of the early 16's should have been tried and executed as war criminals.
jack
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/22 07:23:01
Not a firearm but kinda related;

Understanding Engineers

What is the difference between mechanical
engineers and civil engineers?

Mechanical engineers build weapons and civil
engineers build targets.
chicagostyledog
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/22 08:25:27
Visit http://www.brassfetcher.com for some interesting ballistic gelatin testing. I've been a fan of Speer 135gr 38+p short barrel until last month when I purchased the new Buffalo Bore 150gr Hard Cast Wadcutter self defense ammo.
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/22 11:22:05
quote:
Originally posted by prisonchef

v960,
better never let peggy hear your thoughts on an uzi. she loves hers and does all the maintance on it. she can rebuild it blindfolded and has practiced with it enough that every round goes to within an inch of aim point at 50 yards. while i do not care for the thing myself i will admit that it goes bang everytime and that's more than i can say for the 16 that i got in 69!!!! 3 shots and jam 3 shots and jam!!! got a 12 gauge wingmaster and the old man sent shells in my care package said he learned the same thing on guadalcanal with an m1!!! to this day i still feel that the suppliers of the early 16's should have been tried and executed as war criminals.
jack

Jack,
There is a hour long show about the 16 on the History Channel that explains the problems w/ the 16 in the early years. The criminals were in the Army. They changed the gunpowder type, did not even issue cleaning kits to save a few bucks and ended up getting a bunch of guys killed. My AR-15 or my Bulgarian AK has NEVER jammed or malfunctioned. I was almost thankful when someone stole my Uzi and Chinese AK. We keep SK's in the back of our farm trucks and in a holster on our four wheelers (feral dogs are a big problem in piedmont NC). The SK's grow legs at the end of each farm season.

We have one Mexican guy who works for us each year. He takes one of the SK's home each year but brings it back. "It kill the pig good" Last year at the send off party (the workers are seasonal) I gave him a few boxes of handloaded ammo. "This kill the pig faster".

BTW one of the Latino wives actually asked for my tamale recipe..."just like my Mother's tamale" Am I good or what? The recipe is off the back of the masa bag but we use homemade lard and farm raised pork.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/27 09:09:49
I went out and bought a decent Simmons scope for my 10/22 Thursday. Got it mounted and supposedly bore sighted at the gun shop. When I got to the range and started shooting it it wasn't even on the paper. And I was shooting at an 11x13 or even bigger target page at 25 yards.

I'll have to go back, maybe this afternoon, and try again.

MikeS.
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/27 17:48:38
I'm going to be my true PIA here. Ruger makes sledge hammers. The 10/22 (I own three curently) shoot well but not like a Remington or Kimber.

I can put a thirty round mag in my 10/22 and chase down a feral dog. But a single round in the ten zone isn't going to happen.

I am a NRA life member and a NC lifetime Sportsman...I can shoot and hit what I aim at but a Ruger is an axe when we want a knife. BTW, dropped more varmints w/ my Ruger Ranch rifle than w/ anything else.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/27 17:57:12
I have an accurized 10/22 with a bull barrel and a Leupold 4X scope, and it does pretty well on tacks.

It's not bad on squirrels and woodchucks, either.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 00:19:12
V960, why don't ya ship those rotten sledge hammers up here I'll put them to use. I'll bust some cans and milk jugs with them. Which caliber of ranch rifle? I have the mini-30.

I did get back to the range Sunday afternoon and got the scope sighted in. It was wayyyy low and right. I put up a large, 30"x40", piece of kraft paper and at 25 yards was barely on it. I did finally get it tuned in to where I was on the bullseye at 25 yards on a 25y pistol target.

I'll go back tomorrow and reset it for 50 yards. I may have to take some tacks along...

MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 00:20:23
Oh yeah, when I want to drive tacks at 100 yards I use my Ruger model 77/22. I prefer the 10/22 though.
Namho
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 11:04:25
Wow I had no idea this was here. I am a part time "wannbe gunsmith" I love to take old guns and restore them. I am a 10/22 junkie, nothing like a 800 dollar .22 . My weapon of choice is a 1911, there is no substitute! I also love my supper blackhawk .44 if I need more stopping power than any of my .45's.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 13:38:10
quote:
Originally posted by Namho

Wow I had no idea this was here. I am a part time "wannbe gunsmith" I love to take old guns and restore them. I am a 10/22 junkie, nothing like a 800 dollar .22 . My weapon of choice is a 1911, there is no substitute! I also love my supper blackhawk .44 if I need more stopping power than any of my .45's.


Or a $2,500 STI/SVI after all is said and done, BTDT.

John
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 14:45:47
quote:
Originally posted by Namho

Wow I had no idea this was here. I am a part time "wannbe gunsmith" I love to take old guns and restore them. I am a 10/22 junkie, nothing like a 800 dollar .22 . My weapon of choice is a 1911, there is no substitute! I also love my supper blackhawk .44 if I need more stopping power than any of my .45's.


Nahmo, 1st welcome to the forum and 2nd welcome to this thread! As you have probably seen there are several of us that like our firearms. I know I do.

I sure wouldn't put 800 into a 10/22 although I've been thinking about a VQ trigger and possibly a new trigger group. But I sure see where a lot of people put a lot of money into theirs.

"My weapon of choice is a 1911, there is no substitute! "

I'm not a big fan of the 1911 although I have 3 clones of it. A Coonan in .357mag and 2 Colt Double Eagles, 1 in 10mm and the other in .45auto.

Mt favorite .45 is my Springfield XD .45auto
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 14:47:03
John, what the heck are you talking about? "Or a $2,500 STI/SVI after all is said and done, BTDT."

MikeS.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 14:48:29
Better yet we need pictures!
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 16:57:56
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

V960, why don't ya ship those rotten sledge hammers up here I'll put them to use. I'll bust some cans and milk jugs with them. Which caliber of ranch rifle? I have the mini-30.



They're not rotten sledge hammers but they are sledge hammers,slightly above the fit and finsh of a Chinese AK. I would not have bought three 10/22's if I didn't see a value.

Compare one to a Kimber or even a Remington...forget putting on up against a Browning. I've got four Ruger rifles, (they seem to pay more attention to the M77 than the 10/22) and three pistols. Good but not great stuff.

A Kimber out of the box will shoot ten times better than a tuned Ruger 10/22.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 17:41:54
Hi Mike,

RE: Namho's $800 .22. BTDT = Been There, Done That. Had an STI set up for IPSC, between it and the magazines I was into it for about $2,500. One day someone else wanted it more than I and made me an offer I could not refuse.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/sti_guns/sti_executive.htm

John
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/28 19:47:28
Thanks John, I didn't know what an STI was.
Namho
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/29 18:54:01
quote:
Originally posted by V960

quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

V960, why don't ya ship those rotten sledge hammers up here I'll put them to use. I'll bust some cans and milk jugs with them. Which caliber of ranch rifle? I have the mini-30.



They're not rotten sledge hammers but they are sledge hammers,slightly above the fit and finsh of a Chinese AK. I would not have bought three 10/22's if I didn't see a value.

Compare one to a Kimber or even a Remington...forget putting on up against a Browning. I've got four Ruger rifles, (they seem to pay more attention to the M77 than the 10/22) and three pistols. Good but not great stuff.

A Kimber out of the box will shoot ten times better than a tuned Ruger 10/22.
Thats a challenge I would take any day...Dont get me wrong, I love the Kimber .45's and I have never had a Kimber rifle but right at the moment I have three 10/22's that would make the kimber blush.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/30 11:02:57
What can you guys tell me about red dot sights? I see 30mm and 42?mm tubes. Whats the difference?

Do you look through the tube to see the dot?

What size reticle would be good for a .22lr at 50 yards, 4mm or 8mm?

How well do they work in bright daylight?

What else do I need to know?

TIA,

MikeS.
Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/30 16:42:21
I don't know if I'd want a red dot for a .22, especially if you really want accuracy (such as hitting a squirrel at 50 yds.) The red dot is "fairly accurate" but not super accurate, so for 50 yd. shots I'd get a 4X scope on my .22. For a pistol a red dot would be more helpful - again, unless you're shooting x-ring competition. They work in daylight - some have a dimmer to accomodate bright light.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/05/31 07:51:01
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

What can you guys tell me about red dot sights? I see 30mm and 42?mm tubes. Whats the difference?

Do you look through the tube to see the dot?

What size reticle would be good for a .22lr at 50 yards, 4mm or 8mm?

How well do they work in bright daylight?

What else do I need to know?

TIA,

MikeS.


Is the .22 set up for mounting a red dot/scope? If so just be sure to get the same size rings as the tube.

You look through the tube just like a scope, you can get much shorter tubes. I've had red dots that are very short. This is a specialized dot used for fast action handgun competitions. You can get good ones for well under $100.00.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/docter-red-dot-sight-third-gen-35-moa.html

For 50 yards get the smaller reticle.

They are fine in bright sunlight.

Best for very fast target acquisition.

Here's a couple of my present ones, this BSA dot was on the AR when I bought it.



Bought this one at a gun show for $50.00, it's mounted on a Browning Highpower .22 Semi Auto. Browning told me they only made seven like this for the 2004 SHOT show.



Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/01 07:10:22
I'll give you $100.00 for it right now.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/01 07:19:06
quote:
Originally posted by Oneiron339

I'll give you $100.00 for it right now.


The red dot, you got it?
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/01 18:30:59
quote:
Originally posted by Namho

quote:
Originally posted by V960

quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

V960, why don't ya ship those rotten sledge hammers up here I'll put them to use. I'll bust some cans and milk jugs with them. Which caliber of ranch rifle? I have the mini-30.



They're not rotten sledge hammers but they are sledge hammers,slightly above the fit and finsh of a Chinese AK. I would not have bought three 10/22's if I didn't see a value.

Compare one to a Kimber or even a Remington...forget putting on up against a Browning. I've got four Ruger rifles, (they seem to pay more attention to the M77 than the 10/22) and three pistols. Good but not great stuff.

A Kimber out of the box will shoot ten times better than a tuned Ruger 10/22.
Thats a challenge I would take any day...Dont get me wrong, I love the Kimber .45's and I have never had a Kimber rifle but right at the moment I have three 10/22's that would make the kimber blush.


I own two basically standard 10/22's (very minor adjustment, trigger jobs and the extended mag release) and one that I, IMHO, foolishly had tuned (bull barrel, stoned action and trigger jobs). I own a pre-bankrupcy .22 Kimber that is unreal in fit, finish and accuracy. I think the world of Ruger's products but it is like comparing a Porsche to a Ford to compare a Ruger to a Kimber. Just my opinion, but I own all of the above...cars and weapons.
Namho
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/02 08:26:27
I was looking at the kimber rifles online(very sweet), I do plan to own one some day but the foolish thing is to think its better because it cost more. The main thing you need to remember is "its not the arrow, its the Indian" Like I said...I would take that challenge any day!

I had to edit this because it didn't sound right to me. I am in no way insulting your Kimber. I have just seen so many high priced guns at the range get put away early because they were not out shooting the others.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/02 18:05:48
quote:
Originally posted by Namho

I was looking at the kimber rifles online(very sweet), I do plan to own one some day but the foolish thing is to think its better because it cost more. The main thing you need to remember is "its not the arrow, its the Indian" Like I said...I would take that challenge any day!

I had to edit this because it didn't sound right to me. I am in no way insulting your Kimber. I have just seen so many high priced guns at the range get put away early because they were not out shooting the others.


"I have just seen so many high priced guns at the range get put away early because they were not out shooting the others."

Namho, No disrespect toward you but as you said, "its not the arrow, its the Indian".



genewj
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/03 08:40:27
Until my ears started giving out on me and the doc. said quit, I shot Steel, even had a target setup outside of back door at our place in Houchi Cal. When i was stressed go out the back door and Pop away with air pistol at 25 yrs with 1" steel targets.
perfect in that game is 40. forty targets knocked down of various sizes and various distances depending on the caliber of hand gun U'r using and type of sights. my best score ever was shooting chickens at 200 yrds standing using a 9 power scope and cassdt bullets in my 32-20.. routine 100 yrd 40's with .22,32-20,4.44's
Now i do not gert to shoot anymore.
I'll never forget the range masters look when at 17 in Navy bootcamp in san Diego, they took us to the range and spent hours on safety and then handed us Colt .45's to try our luck..I didn't have a single shot out of the 10 circle. Didn't shot the M1 too well however.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/03 10:25:00
Oneiron, I won't be doing any hunting of animals. Cans and plastic bottles though can be real mean I have a 10/22 that I just put a 3x9x40 scope on a couple weeks ago. A 3x9 because I got it used for 25 bucks. It a Simmons which is a decent brand.

I have a Mk II that currently has a Burris 2x EER scope but I really don't like the scope on this pistol. Might try it out on my .357 carbine.

The red dot would go on the Mk II if I decide to get one.

MikeS.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/03 10:30:16
Went to the range Friday and shot or tried to shoot my Coonan .357 magnum semi-auto. Almost every round failed to eject. I'm shooting some 10 year old reloads I did back in '98 while still living in Fresno. Either the load is too light for the action or I might have a busted ejector. I'm going to strip the pistol when I get home tonight and see if I can see anything wrong.

If these loads are just too light then I'll shoot them up in something else. Fortunately I have a few choices when it comes to .357
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/08 14:23:23
I went and bought a 2nd XD a couple days ago. This 1 is in 9mm and has a stainless steel slide and black polymer lower.

MikeS.
Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/08 16:01:22
quote:
Originally posted by MikeS.

I went and bought a 2nd XD a couple days ago. This 1 is in 9mm and has a stainless steel slide and black polymer lower.

MikeS.

When I'm rich like you I might get another 9MM, however, I'd prefer more punch -either another .40 or a .45.
lunasatic
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/12 14:00:48
I'm a gun illiterate asking for enlightenment, please? My husband just bought a .410 pistol (I believe it also shoots .44 mags, but don't quote me on that!)for $500 or so. He was deeeeeeeelighted, and I was happy for him, but, just between y'all & me, what's the big deal? Was it maybe just one of his personal goals, or is there something special about this gun? I remember my ex had (has?) a .410 double-barrel shotgun that he taught our son to hunt with, and he was more protective of it than he was of me! What's so special about the .410? Thanks!
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/12 18:34:47
quote:
Originally posted by lunasatic

I'm a gun illiterate asking for enlightenment, please? My husband just bought a .410 pistol (I believe it also shoots .44 mags, but don't quote me on that!)for $500 or so. He was deeeeeeeelighted, and I was happy for him, but, just between y'all & me, what's the big deal? Was it maybe just one of his personal goals, or is there something special about this gun? I remember my ex had (has?) a .410 double-barrel shotgun that he taught our son to hunt with, and he was more protective of it than he was of me! What's so special about the .410? Thanks!


IMHO, a .410 shotgun is an expert's gun. People buy them, because of the reduced recoil, for kid's first gun. Kid can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside and is discouraged. A twenty gauge is a much better idea...again IMHO. A twenty patterns well, the ammo is cheaper than .410's and you can actually hunt w/ it.

The .410 pistol is probably also able to handle a .45 long Colt round but make sure before trying this. It will fit, it will fire but having a hand cannon explode in your hand will ruin your whole day.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/12 23:23:04
I doubt it shoots the 44magnum, more likely the 45 long colt (LC) that v960 mentions.

As to why he likes the 410 so much I couldn't tell you. I'm not a fan of it, the ammo is too expensive.

Is the gun he bought called The Judge by chance? I've recently read and actually held one of these recently. It makes for a nice snake killer using the 410 shot shell and would be a decent home defense gun using the .45LC round.

Sorry we can't explain his fascination with it. Maybe someone else here can.

MikeS.
Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/13 07:13:46
I always liked a .410 for some unknown reason, maybe the shells looked neat, or probably because it was my first gun many moons ago. I just bought a Rem. 870 pump in .410 a few months ago. It's fun to shoot and Mrs. Oneiron likes it better than the 12 ga. It also helps wing shooting skills because you really have to be "on" the claybird to hit it.
lunasatic
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/13 13:04:05
Thanks for the .410 input. The pistol was bought (I was told) for combination home defense and shooting varmits (ie: snakes) when hubby is out hunting walking sticks. Hubby is 60+ and doesn't see/hear like he used to, but still loves the outdoors. Maybe it's an aiming thing? I dunno. Me, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at point-blank range with a baseball bat! Hubby's the usual southern redneck ex-military marksman. (Translation: can still take out a squirrel's eye @500 yds through thick vegitation.) I've noticed Southern men are usually ace shots; maybe from being raised outside with a gun hunting the next meal? My son's first gun (age 6 or so) was the aforementioned ex's .410, which he'd inherited from his grandpa. My son's a crack shot, but prefers the "peacefulness of fishing" (his quotes). Thanks again, guys! L
lunasatic
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/13 14:20:52
Heard from hubby re .410 pistol:It's a blue Taurus Model 4410 TKR/3SS; shoots 2.5" .410 shells and .45 Long Colt bullets, and has a red dot laser front sight, per the spec sheet that came with it. Dunno about "The Judge" part, nothing mentioned.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/13 14:30:05
quote:
Originally posted by V960

quote:
Originally posted by lunasatic

I'm a gun illiterate asking for enlightenment, please? My husband just bought a .410 pistol (I believe it also shoots .44 mags, but don't quote me on that!)for $500 or so. He was deeeeeeeelighted, and I was happy for him, but, just between y'all & me, what's the big deal? Was it maybe just one of his personal goals, or is there something special about this gun? I remember my ex had (has?) a .410 double-barrel shotgun that he taught our son to hunt with, and he was more protective of it than he was of me! What's so special about the .410? Thanks!


IMHO, a .410 shotgun is an expert's gun. People buy them, because of the reduced recoil, for kid's first gun. Kid can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside and is discouraged. A twenty gauge is a much better idea...again IMHO. A twenty patterns well, the ammo is cheaper than .410's and you can actually hunt w/ it.

The .410 pistol is probably also able to handle a .45 long Colt round but make sure before trying this. It will fit, it will fire but having a hand cannon explode in your hand will ruin your whole day.

I'll have you know that a .410 firing a slug is legal for hunting deer in Ohio.
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/13 15:10:55
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman
I'll have you know that a .410 firing a slug is legal for hunting deer in Ohio.


Michael,
That is unreal to think about. Ohio has deer that are MUCH larger than any NC deer it is not even funny. But then again it is basically a .45 cal shotshell. But for me when slug hunting the 11-87 SP w/ a rifled barrel comes out.
porkbeaks
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/14 11:20:10
I just received this in an email from an old high school friend who is a retired jarhead officer. He is not the author. pb

"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories,without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use
reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it
wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act." By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)
KOK
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/14 11:39:57
I was about to ask a question about the Bersa 380 when I saw your post. It is all around excellent, and because I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where only the personal shake-boy of the Governor may get a carry permit, it is even more apposite.

Does anyone have any opinions/experience with the Bersa 380 (Thunder model)? A range/gun store owner recommended it but when I tried one at another range, it operated poorly. I got the impression that the rental gun was not kept as well as my own guns so that may have been part of the problem.

Any thought on the Bersa would be appreciated. I'm also considering the Bersa .45 but have and love my Colt clone so it may be the .380.

Thanks,

Kevin
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/14 15:49:19
Kevin, I've heard both good and negative of this pistol. I've never fired one personally. I have a Walther PPK clone in .380 and I really like it. Look for a Walther or a clone of the PPK is my current recommendation.

I'm going to put your question up on a couple gun boards I frequent. They have a lot of insight to different guns.

MikeS.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/14 16:57:50
quote:
Originally posted by V960

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman
I'll have you know that a .410 firing a slug is legal for hunting deer in Ohio.


Michael,
That is unreal to think about. Ohio has deer that are MUCH larger than any NC deer it is not even funny. But then again it is basically a .45 cal shotshell. But for me when slug hunting the 11-87 SP w/ a rifled barrel comes out.

I have rifled barrels for my 1100 and my 870. But I do most of my gun hunting for deer with revolvers.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/14 17:55:33
Excellent post porkbeaks, thank you.

KOK - I've owned several Bersa's and found them to be reliable when cared for.
KOK
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/15 11:46:24
Thanks John A. The store/range owner is someone who's opinion I trust so I indeed did think the Bersa malfunctioned due to poor maintenance. My Norinco .45 has had many thousands of rounds with little problem as I'm pretty meticulous about cleaning.

Mike S - Do you have an FEG? Do you mind if I ask the approx price of your PPK clone? I can get the Bersa for $250 +/- and I'm trying to keep price down as I'm also trying to soon buy a Mini-14 Ranch rifle as I believe either the Feds, or Maryland (or both) will again legislate against what they deem assault weapons.

Thanks again,

Kevin
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/16 12:17:36
Kevin, I do have the FEG but I bought it about 20 years ago, price was around 100 - 125. I like it just fine, it has been quite reliable.

I've heard back from my other gun sites about your question. A number of them have this pistol and they all like it.

MikeS.
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/18 21:57:55
Cute;

Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/19 07:14:17
Good cartoon!
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/19 07:30:22
LOL, good one Mike.
V960
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/19 15:33:37
The cartoon reminds me of the old joke about two guys walking in the woods when they see a bear. One stops and quickly puts on a pair of running shoes...the other guy lokks at the first guy and tells him "You can't out run a bear"

"I don't have to out run the bear, just you"
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/20 08:52:59
quote:
Originally posted by KOK

I was about to ask a question about the Bersa 380 when I saw your post. It is all around excellent, and because I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where only the personal shake-boy of the Governor may get a carry permit, it is even more apposite.

Does anyone have any opinions/experience with the Bersa 380 (Thunder model)? A range/gun store owner recommended it but when I tried one at another range, it operated poorly. I got the impression that the rental gun was not kept as well as my own guns so that may have been part of the problem.

Any thought on the Bersa would be appreciated. I'm also considering the Bersa .45 but have and love my Colt clone so it may be the .380.

Thanks,

Kevin


Kevin, Just ran across this -

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=24907
KOK
Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/06/20 10:56:27
quote:
Originally posted by John A
quote:
Originally posted by KOK
Kevin, Just ran across this -

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=24907
Thanks John. I believe I will start to look for the Thunder .380 based on all I've read.

Kevin
MikeS.
Fire Safety Admin
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/07/08 10:35:58
I haven't had a chance to do any shooting for over a month now. What with PP being so sick all my time has had to go elsewhere. Heck, I had even bought a new pistol last month and I haven't fired it even once.

I'm gonna try real hard to get out this next Friday and fire off a few rounds.

There is a big gunshow in Va the last weekend of this month, real close to Dulles airport. I plan on going and am looking for a couple long guns. A Marlin camp 9 or .45 and a lever action .22lr

MikeS.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/07/08 16:50:16
Competition next week so I sent 200 rounds downrange today. 50 freestyle, 50 strong hand, and 100 weak hand.
John A
Filet Mignon
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/07/10 14:05:23
Watch about 20 feet in front of him.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d0_1183090807
Oneiron339
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RE: Firearm lovers. 2007/07/10 16:24:50
quote:
Originally posted by John A

Watch about 20 feet in front of him.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d0_1183090807

OUCH! He's pretty lucky.
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