True Kosher Dills

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The-Porcus
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True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 12:44 AM
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For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?

Rick F.
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 3:15 AM
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Vlasic

Mayhaw Man
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 8:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by The-Porcus

For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?


How is the pickle preserved if they are not put in some kind of brine? What keeps the pickles from drying out during the first couple of days?
Explain yourself, man! There could be grounds for charges of Cucumber Abuse or maybe Cruelty to a Cucumber.

lleechef
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 11:44 AM
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You tell 'em Mayhaw!!

Rusty246
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 12:18 PM
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I go Claussen! After we finish off a jar, I just take some pickling cukes, make spears out of em' and put in the same jar the pickles came in. In about a week, they're pretty darn good.

Kristi S.
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/9/03 4:11 PM
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Ba-tampte

howard8
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/17/03 2:40 PM
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Schorrs sour and half-sour, for my taste are better than Ba-tampte. I also use the left over brine to season my cucumbers. I look forward to someone giving a recipe, sans vinegar.

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/17/03 4:29 PM
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For real pickles, take 20 small kirby cukes (uwaxed and bumpy) and scrub under cold water. Bring 3/4 cup kosher salt in cold water to a boil, turn off heat, and let cool. This is your brine. Meanwile, smack about 16 garlic cloves with the back of a large knife. Distribute equally into canning jars with cukes. Divide 1 bunch of dill, 6 or so bay leaves, and 4 small hot peppers into jars. Divide 3 TBS pickling spices (mustard seeds, perppercorns, coriander seeds, and dill seeds) into jars. Add brine to totally cover. Put lids on tight and shake. Set in a cool, dark place. Remove the lids once a day and spoon off any foam that might form. Cover and shake. You will have half sour after about 4-5 days, and sour after about a week. Refrigerate -- if any are left. This is what they do at the Second Ave Deli in NYC. Rob

The-Porcus
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/18/03 6:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mayhaw Man

quote:
Originally posted by The-Porcus

For lovers of deli sandwiches, the kosher dill (full or half sour) is the side dish that must be there if the pastrami, or Montreal smoked meat or corned beef is to really do its magic. Years ago, my Jewish aunt shared a recipe with me for making such dills. I made the mistake of putting the recipe only on my hard drive and - much thanks, Mr. Gates! - it vanished! So, alas too has my aunt, skywards to the great pickling grounds above.

I'd be interested in some brainstorming about how to do it. What I do recall most is that (a) vinegar never got near these pickles (that is, they fermented on their own) (b) that they got put in glass bottles out in the late summer sun for several days running and (c) most oddly, the recipe called for putting a slice of stale rye bread across the mouth jar of each pickle bottle. But nuances such as how much kosher salt to use per gallon escape me. I tried a batch this summer, must have used too little salt and created an excellent bacterial broth.

While your all at it, who likes which commercial available kosher dill?


How is the pickle preserved if they are not put in some kind of brine? What keeps the pickles from drying out during the first couple of days?
Explain yourself, man! There could be grounds for charges of Cucumber Abuse or maybe Cruelty to a Cucumber.


Hey Mr. Mayhaw - who said "no brine"? Kosher salt (mentioned in my first posting) is the medium as Grampy in his quite different recipe illustrates.

I said "no vinegar" and that doesn't have anything to do with brine. When my fishermen forbears spoke of someone"lost in the briney deeps", I don't think they were chanting about drowning in vats of vinegar .

The-Porcus
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/18/03 6:47 AM
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Just to put my two cents in on my own question - up here in Canada there is a company called Strub's that does have true kosher dills. The brine is cloudy and a warning comes on the bottle not to equate that with any unwanted deterioration of the product. We get Claussen's but no variety that is without vinegar, the natural enemy of the cucumber!

Argent
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/18/03 7:50 AM
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At Atmans deli in Baltimore Md, They have real pickle barelles. They have a choice of Cucumbers, tomatos , Etc . Grab tongs and fish your own.

howard8
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/24/03 8:47 AM
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The-Porcus:
I am interested in the results of Grampy's recipe. Let us know if you try it. Anyone know if there is a downside to refrigerate the mixture from the start?

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 11:02 AM
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You really don't want to refrigerate the pickles for the first few days, because they need to ferment at room temperature to create a true brine. Brine works as a preservative, just as refrigeration does, but they are at cross-purposes when used together. This method actually goes back to ancient Egypt, although I learned it from the owner of the 2nd Ave Deli only recently.

howard8
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 1:31 PM
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Thanks Grampy. I now have an understanding of why u start the process at room temperature.

Lone Star
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 2:50 PM
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Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?

Mayhaw Man
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 3:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lone Star

Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?


It is a pickle that is half sweet

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 3:08 PM
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Half-sour pickles are merely pickles that do not ferment the full week, but only about 4 days outside the fridge. This is why they are usually greener, a tad sweeter, and crisper.

Lone Star
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 4:16 PM
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Thanks Grampy - I am going to have to try one.

hilldweller
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 6:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lone Star

Somebody please tell me - what is a "half-sour" pickle? How are they different from "regular" pickles?


For my money, the only way to go is with what I'd call the "advanced half-sour." That's a half-sour that's well on its way to sour, but not quite. The half-sours straight out of the refrigerated jars are an abomination IMNSHO because they're really not at all soured yet. They're like wet cucumbers. Yuk. Bring 'em home, break the vacuum seal, and let 'em ferment a few days. Then we're starting to talk about a decent pickle.

But I have no great love for sour pickles on the other side of the pickle coin either, at least as I have experienced well-soured pickles. They're limp, soggy, characterless lumps of mush with no crunch that are also so "sour" that the "sour" taste ovewhelms all other characteristics. I'd say a good analogy is the opinion that a meat connoisseur has towards well-done meat in that it destroys the product; and that a full-sour pickle is similarly "overcooked" to the point that it's been destroyed. (Of course, I like my meat well done, so I obviously have much less respect for my meat than I do for my pickle!)

kdiammond
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 10/28/03 9:34 PM
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I have made Kosher dills in much the same way as Grampy-- However, I will caution you not to do a large batch in an apartment. I grew cukes at my Mom's house and took them back to the apartment to process. Within the week my apt. was smelling like a pickle factory. Fortunately, I had foodie neighbors (mostly from NY as am I) so they did not complain but did come by bringing jars for some of the treats.

marberthenad
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 11/1/03 8:57 PM
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Speaking of New York, there used to be this company that went from street fair to street fair with its own sours, half sours, and hot pepper pickles. I think they tried to open up a retail space somewhere on the Upper West Side. I wonder if they are still open.

By the way, I'd second the view that Ba-tampe pickles are extraordinary. Simple and sour, or half-sour. I used to be a Strub's fan, until I tried my first Ba-tampe cuke.

JimInKy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Mon, 11/3/03 5:53 AM
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In all the Roadfood recommended eateries I've visited--29 to date--I've only had one bad experience. And that was in June 2000 at Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor. I hate to report this as Zingerman's is a favorite of Jane and Michael's. I may tell the story another time.

A large whole pickle came with my Reuben ($10.95 for the small sandwich). I'm not really familiar with these kind of pickles and am guessing it was fermented; it certainly wasn't cooked. Well, it was about the worst thing I ever tried to eat. After a few small bites I had to give up. A server noticed I wasn't eating it, and politely told me she could offer another variety. The second pickle looked like the first and tasted just as bad. I would not eat it. Both looked like freshly harvested cucumbers, but had an offensive off taste to me, neither pickle nor vegetable.

The pickle disappointment was the least of my bad experience at Zingerman's, but I've wondered why I so disliked these pickles. I love pickles and cannot remember ever disliking one before that day. Maybe these were the half-sours being discussed here and that was my first experience with them. They were quite green and crisp.

Anyone have a possible explanation?

The-Porcus
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 11/22/03 7:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JimInKy

In all the Roadfood recommended eateries I've visited--29 to date--I've only had one bad experience. And that was in June 2000 at Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor. I hate to report this as Zingerman's is a favorite of Jane and Michael's. I may tell the story another time.

A large whole pickle came with my Reuben ($10.95 for the small sandwich). I'm not really familiar with these kind of pickles and am guessing it was fermented; it certainly wasn't cooked. Well, it was about the worst thing I ever tried to eat. After a few small bites I had to give up. A server noticed I wasn't eating it, and politely told me she could offer another variety. The second pickle looked like the first and tasted just as bad. I would not eat it. Both looked like freshly harvested cucumbers, but had an offensive off taste to me, neither pickle nor vegetable.

The pickle disappointment was the least of my bad experience at Zingerman's, but I've wondered why I so disliked these pickles. I love pickles and cannot remember ever disliking one before that day. Maybe these were the half-sours being discussed here and that was my first experience with them. They were quite green and crisp.

Anyone have a possible explanation?


The greeness and crispness does say "half sour" to me and I can well imagine that if one never had them before and one's palate was eaegerly awaiting and expecting a full sour, the effect could be unsettling. Sometime, maybe go back there and nibble another but chanting the mantra "No ordinary dill, no ordinary dill..."

chicagostyledog
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 01/8/04 9:25 AM
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True Kosher dill pickles are barrel cured in refrigeration, never cooked, for that authentic deli crunch. Chipico Pickles (Chicago Pickle Company) is owned by Vienna Beef in Chicago. Their pickles are available in a variety of sizes, cuts, and pickling spices and manufactured under strict Kosher guidelines in Florida and California. Chipico Pickles can be enjoyed at restaurants, delis, and hot dog stands. They are available in 5 gallon pails at Restaurant Depot.

wilewil
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 02/19/04 11:43 AM
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Restaurant Depot - How strict are they about their "membership" requirements. I cook for my church, but not on a regular basis, using them might be advantageous. I have heard they have at least some good items.


Bill

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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 06/22/04 8:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Grampy

For real pickles, take 20 small kirby cukes (uwaxed and bumpy) and scrub under cold water. Bring 3/4 cup kosher salt in cold water to a boil, turn off heat, and let cool. This is your brine. Meanwile, smack about 16 garlic cloves with the back of a large knife. Distribute equally into canning jars with cukes. Divide 1 bunch of dill, 6 or so bay leaves, and 4 small hot peppers into jars. Divide 3 TBS pickling spices (mustard seeds, perppercorns, coriander seeds, and dill seeds) into jars. Add brine to totally cover. Put lids on tight and shake. Set in a cool, dark place. Remove the lids once a day and spoon off any foam that might form. Cover and shake. You will have half sour after about 4-5 days, and sour after about a week. Refrigerate -- if any are left. This is what they do at the Second Ave Deli in NYC. Rob


Hey Rob,
We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
Thanks!

Frank


hrichard
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 06/22/04 9:09 PM
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True New York / Conn. / NJ sour and half sour pickles can be ordered on line from www.picklelicious.com I promise you, these are the real things - full of garlic and brine, not vinegar. I have gone through several gallon jars after 2 decades of deli deprivation.

Rich

TIPPY LEE
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 06/23/04 2:27 AM
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I like Mt. Olive!....In Eastern Kentucky....Tom B.

6star
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 06/23/04 2:55 AM
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This recipe might be similar to your aunt's, though it doesn't say anything about stale rye bread: http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/appetizers/pickles/halfsour.html

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 06/23/04 9:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by fcbaldwin

quote:



Hey Rob,
We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
Thanks!

Frank




Frank:

Use a gallon of water to the ratio of kosher salt. You may have to experiment with salt, because it does not come from one source, and the last box of Morton's I bought was actually saltier than the previous I have purchased!

fcbaldwin
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 06/23/04 11:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Grampy

quote:
Originally posted by fcbaldwin

quote:



Hey Rob,
We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
Thanks!

Frank




Frank:

Use a gallon of water to the ratio of kosher salt. You may have to experiment with salt, because it does not come from one source, and the last box of Morton's I bought was actually saltier than the previous I have purchased!


Thanks! Our water is soft as well. So we may have to use less salt anyway. I'll take your advice and experiment with a small batch first.


fcbaldwin
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 06/23/04 11:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich Hirsch

True New York / Conn. / NJ sour and half sour pickles can be ordered on line from www.picklelicious.com I promise you, these are the real things - full of garlic and brine, not vinegar. I have gone through several gallon jars after 2 decades of deli deprivation.

Rich


Rich,
I have had picklelicious' full sours and I agree they're GREAT! I just wish it didn't cost so much for the shipping....but it's worth it when you're craving the genuine thing.

Frank

gottatravel
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 07/17/04 2:38 PM
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I found 2 types of Nathan's pickles recently in my supermarket.
"New York Kosher Halves" and "Sweet Horseradish Pickles"
Both were in the chill section. I found these to be very crunchy and quite tasty.
Looking back at past messages I have not seen any mention of this brand of pickle. Does anyone have an opine on these?
My favorite was the Sweet Horseradish.

CheeseWit
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 07/17/04 5:18 PM
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The best? Try The Pickle Guys in New York City. Unbelievable quality. You might have to wait in (or "on") line, but well worth it. They do ship anywhere. Check their website...just google them.

BT
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sun, 07/18/04 12:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Argent

At Atmans deli in Baltimore Md, They have real pickle barelles. They have a choice of Cucumbers, tomatos , Etc . Grab tongs and fish your own.


OH MY GOD! Is Atman's still there? When I was in college (JHU, '67), we used to trek to Atman's every Sunday for kosher chow. A "regular" corned beef sandwich was a quarter, extra lean was $.45. And you are correct: the pickles were killer (I don't recall the price of those). But then back in those days, you couldn't really go wrong at any deli that sold genuine kosher.

fcbaldwin
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 07/21/04 6:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Grampy

quote:
Originally posted by fcbaldwin

quote:



Hey Rob,
We've got a potentially great crop of pickling cukes coming in. The one thing I need to know from your recipe is how much water do you start with (when you add the 3/4 cup of kosher salt) for the brine. As I understand it, the amounts of salt and water that make the brine are important.
Thanks!

Frank




Frank:

Use a gallon of water to the ratio of kosher salt. You may have to experiment with salt, because it does not come from one source, and the last box of Morton's I bought was actually saltier than the previous I have purchased!


Grampy,

The pickles are done!! Using your (2nd Street Deli's) ratio of 3/4 cup of kosher salt to water, and adding grape leaves to help keep the liquid clear (and it works!), these pickles are the REAL DEAL! We let them go 9 days in the brine, then "decanted" them into clean containers with strained and boiled brine (that was allowed to cool before pouring over them), and they are just great.

We tried a small batch using 1/2 cup of salt to the gallon, and it didn't work...they went bad within 4-5 days in the brine. The 3/4 cup to 1 gallon is perfect.

Also, my favorites are the larger cukes for the pickling. But everyone has a preferable size, so we put up several sizes.

Frank

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 07/21/04 6:43 PM
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Frank:

I have 4 jars working on their fourth day in my cellar. I can't wait!

Best,
Rob

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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sun, 10/10/04 9:55 PM
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I've not made pickles. I just buy them from the store and my favorite brand is Claussen's. They're good and crunchy.

carl reitz

fcbaldwin
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Mon, 10/11/04 9:30 AM
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Carl:
Just my opinion but the Claussen's just don't compare to the real New York deli kind of "pickle barrel" taste.
The ones we made this summer are all gone, so if I want the real thing I'm gonna have to order them from NY. Two places that I've tried and really liked are The Pickle Guys ( http://www.nycpickleguys.com ) and Pickleicious ( http://www.picklelicious.com ).
It's expensive having them shipped, but worth it if you get that craving.

Frank

carlton pierre
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/14/04 10:36 PM
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Y'know I always figured some place in NY would actually have better pickles than Claussen, but Claussen is best I can come up with where I live. Now, the idea of having some flown out here, that is definitely of interest and worth trying. Thanks for the suggestion.

carl reitz

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 10/14/04 10:39 PM
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Carl: Can't you find Ba-tampte anywhere?

carlton pierre
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/15/04 5:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Grampy

Carl: Can't you find Ba-tampte anywhere?


Hey Grampy, what the heck is that, a brand, a disease, a pickle? What? Never heard of it.

carl reitz

kozel
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/15/04 8:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by carlton pierre

quote:
Originally posted by Grampy

Carl: Can't you find Ba-tampte anywhere?


Hey Grampy, what the heck is that, a brand, a disease, a pickle? What? Never heard of it.

carl reitz


http://www.kosherfest.com/exh_detail.asp?CompID=QEO1FA00I1PG

Would you believe they have a kosher food trade show here in NYC?

Grampy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 10/15/04 9:07 AM
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The only photo I could find. The second from top left is the accurate image:


carlton pierre
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/16/04 7:56 AM
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I'll look at Jungle Jim's next time I go to Cincy and see if he carries the Ba-Tampte brand. I may call the phone number from the website and see if they will ship here to Tennessee. Thanks for the tip.

carl reitz

speechpeach
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/16/04 12:27 PM
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I found half sours at my local Kroger this week....they have recently started selling them...also found a bottle of spaghetti sauce that was $9.56---(did not buy it) and lots of different types of olive oil and vinegars...

jeepguy
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Sat, 10/16/04 12:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rusty246

I go Claussen! After we finish off a jar, I just take some pickling cukes, make spears out of em' and put in the same jar the pickles came in. In about a week, they're pretty darn good.
Claussen garlic spears in my house. I love those things!

mikey1024
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:06 PM
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The Best Best Best Best Best Kosher Dill is made by Topor's in Detroit with NO Vinegar! Yes you heard it right No Vinegar!

Call them up and order some - either New Dills or the Bottom of the barrel Aged Dills

The New Dils are fresh and crunchy
The Aged have a Oak like barrel taste and kinda sour

MMM Good

Mikey

mikey1024
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:11 PM
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Topor's Pickles
2850 Standish
Detroit, MI 48216
Tel: (313) 237-0288



Mikey

Rusty246
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:39 PM
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Being a Claussen eater(but may have to try Grampy's suggestion as we carry the Ba-TAmpe brand here), what is the difference between half and full sour. I know it SHOULD sound obvious, but would someone enlighten me? I looked at the pickleisicious(sp?)website and one jsut looks greeer than the other.

Rusty246
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rusty246

Being a Claussen eater(but may have to try Grampy's suggestion as we carry the Ba-TAmpe brand here), what is the difference between half and full sour. I know it SHOULD sound obvious, but would someone enlighten me? I looked at the pickleisicious(sp?)website and one jsut looks greeer than the other.

I would like to add that Boar's Head makes a good pickle IMO.

Rusty246
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rusty246

quote:
Originally posted by Rusty246

Being a Claussen eater(but may have to try Grampy's suggestion as we carry the Ba-TAmpe brand here), what is the difference between half and full sour. I know it SHOULD sound obvious, but would someone enlighten me? I looked at the pickleisicious(sp?)website and one jsut looks greeer than the other.

I would like to add that Boar's Head makes a good pickle IMO.

I think I jsut broke my own record for typos.

renfrew
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Tue, 11/9/04 2:53 PM
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Topors are pretty good. I also like Gus's Pickles and the Paterson Pickle Company.

vincero
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 03/10/05 7:39 PM
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I make real good sour pickles, but I need to know how to preserve the cukes in order to make them year round?

rhammill
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Wed, 08/17/05 11:00 PM
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I think this is what you're looking for ...

I don't remember on which site I found this. It is one that I grabbed because I am looking for a good pickle recipe to try as well. I haven't tried it yet (still researching ...)

Randy

KOSHER GARLIC DILL PICKLES


Source: My Mother's Kitchen: Recipes & Reminiscences by Mimi Sheraton (Harper Collins)


Yield: 24 to 30 pickles

· 24 to 30 small, very firm Kirby cucumbers, free of bruises or brown
spots
· 7 or 8 cloves garlic, unpeeled but lightly crushed
· 1 teaspoon coriander seeds
· 1 teaspoon mustard seeds
· 1 teaspoon black peppercorns
· 4 or 5 small, dried hot red peppers, or 1/2 teaspoon crushed, dried
hot red Italian peppers
· 3 bay leaves
· 12 to 14 sprigs dill, preferably with seed heads, well washed
· 1 teaspoon dried dill seeds, if the dill has no seed heads
· Heel of sour rye bread with caraway seeds
· 3 quarts of water, or as needed
· 3/4 cup kosher (coarse) salt, or as needed

INTRO: "The following is a basic recipe that may be altered to suit varying tastes, and which should be adjusted slightly to the number of pickles being done in a particular size and shape of crock or jar. (I use a crock with a 5-quart capacity, which takes from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pounds of cucumbers, depending on size.) It is essential that the pickles be covered by the brine.


To accomplish this, the cucumbers to be pickled should be stood on end close together on the bottom of the crock, so they hold each other firmly in place. Even so, they may loosen and float to the top. To avoid that, place a plate or disk of wood directly in the brine, over the pickles, and weight them down, either with a clean stone or a 10-ounce glass two-thirds full of water. If it is necessary to skim the gray film off the brine's surface, replace the weight each time it is removed. The pickling receptacle should have a wide mouth so a salad or bread-and-butter plate, or similar sized disk of wood, can fit inside it. It should be made of ceramic, glass, or wood, not plastic or metal. Unwaxed Kirby cucumbers are the only type that will work for pickling.


Because of the yeast it contains, the crust of rye bread will result in a mildly fermented brine, similar to the Russian and Polish Kvass, and will give a subtle, mildly fermented flavor to the pickles.


In making these pickles, it is important that you do not used mixed pickling spices, because the cinnamon, cloves, and other sweetly aromatic spices in them will detract from the pickles' flavor. Also, it is important that you do not use iodized salt in the process, as that will leave a bitter aftertaste; if you cannot get kosher (coarse) salt, use uniodized table salt, substituting about two-thirds of the amount called for. These are fresh brine pickles, and no vinegar should be used.


DIRECTIONS: Thoroughly wash a wide-mouthed bean pot, crock or glass jar.
Carefully wash the cucumbers, rubbing gently with a sponge, a soft brush, or your hands to reomoves all traces of sand. Discard any with bruises.
Stand the cucumbers on end around the sides and across the bottom of the crock or jar, so that they hold each other in place but not so tightly that they will crush each other. A second upright layer can be added if the jar is tall enough. To the crock add the garlic, all herbs and spices, and bread.


Mix 3 quarts of water with 3/4 cup coarse salt and stir until the salt dissolves. Pour the salt water into the crock to completely cover the pickles. The brine should overflow so you can be sure no air pockets remain. If it does not, place the crock under the faucet and let water run in slowly until it does overflow. You may wash out a few spices in the process, but that will not be critical.


Place the jar on a stain-proof surface in a cool place, but not in the refrigerator. A temperature between 65 and 70 degrees is just right. Place a dish or wooden disk directly over the pickles, in the brine, and top with a weight as described [above]. Cover the crock loosely with a dish towl or a double thickness of cheesecloth.


Check the pickles every 24 hours and remove any white or gray foam that has risen to the surface; this will prevent rotting. Shake the crock slightly to distribute spices and be sure to re-weight. Add salt or other seasonings if the brine seems bland. The pickles will be half sour in about 4 to 5 days, and very sour in about 10 days. When they have reached the degree of sourness you like, they can be stored in the refrigerator in tightly closed jars. Pour some strained brine into the jars to cover the pickles. They will keep for about 5 weeks, assuming they have not been eaten long before.

OldDetroiter
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 05/13/10 2:04 AM
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In the Detroit Metro area you can buy Topor's New Dills which, when they are good, they are the closest thing to a real "new dill" I've tasted in decades.  However, look at em good before you buy because the quality varies quite a bit from batch to batch. Sometimes they are too pickled (wrong color) and often, the pickles are too big to even qualify.  I suspect that their "quality control" is somebody with little knowledge about new dills. Also, they have to be eaten in a couple days after the jar is opened or they turn soggy. 

OldDetroiter
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Thu, 05/13/10 2:13 AM
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The quality of Topor's new dills varies tremendously.  See message #56.  I suspect "the kids" have inherited this company and don't know diddly about dills.  But....any port in the storm, and one can always look at 'em before you buy.
<message edited by OldDetroiter on Thu, 05/13/10 2:15 AM>

Matt Gleason
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RE: True Kosher Dills - Fri, 06/4/10 8:32 PM
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BaTempte in NY makes a great pickle.  I prefer half sours myself and you are correct about the color of the brine.  New dills and half sours will have clear brine and the lid on the jar will be sucked in.  If the brine is cloudy and the lid is popped up, then the pickles have started to ferment and go sour.