Weekend in the District of Columbia

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Nancypalooza
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Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 7:06 PM
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Just a quick couple places from last weekend in the lovely District of Columbia, which is getting ready for its close-up.  We went to visit some good friends, hang out, giggle, and take in a museum or two.  I’m not the quantity king that Buffetbuster is but I can usually eke out three squares a day—whether they’re worth talking about or not is another story. 


I had some great advice from Scorereader (thanks man!)—I asked him for one place and he gave me about fifteen. So between his recommendations and my friends’ we settled on Busboys and Poets on 14th Street. The sign:  
 

And the lovely dining room:  
 
There were four of us so you get four breakfasts.  I chose the mehkleke (I can’t find it on their menu online and I’m quite likely misspelling it).  They described it as ‘Iraqi corned beef’ and it’s pretty much ground beef stewed with tomatoes, onions and bits of potato, so that’s pretty accurate, served with two poached eggs on top.  I had that sucker down before the ladies I was dining with had politely gotten to the middle of their plates.  It was super tasty good—not like the corned beef you’re used to, more like a stew, but excellent.
 
 
And alternately, buckwheat pancakes:  
 
and French toast:  
 
and straight-up bacon and eggs:  
 
There was honestly nothing to complain about.  The service was attentive and charming, they were serving toast made from excellent multi-grain bread, the coffee was great—my friend had a little foam heart in her latte.  Busboys and Poets is a restaurant attached to a good old-fashioned commie bookstore.  I love a good commie bookstore, and I love it even more when they want to feed you excellent food.  
We went on to the Eastern Market, and I had gotten several strong recommendations to try the Market Lunch.  The Eastern Market is in temporary digs because of a fire, and you could see the line for Market Lunch going in.  I was still very full and didn’t get in line.  I did see a terrific-looking monster burger being enjoyed by another diner.  Other fun sights at the Eastern market included this fine fellow:  
 
and I don’t know where they got these gorgeous tomatoes in January but I wanted some:  
 
and for Cliff, some pies:  
 
We then went on to the US Botanical Garden, on the Mall near the Capitol.  This is not a terribly large collection, surprisingly comprehensive, but they do have a cute atrium featuring a small-scale recreation of the mall.  The tiny Washington Monument with reflecting pool:  
 
I think there’s actually a lion sitting in President Lincoln’s seat:  
 
And somehow when I saw this plant I thought of our community of Roadfood posters:  
 
and the people in the new forum bugs and questions section have some inspiration from Thomas Jefferson:
 



Let’s see, other places to mention.  I didn’t take my camera to the District location of the Lebanese Taverna but that was some excellent food. Delicious hummus starter—I became entranced the whole evening watching the guy behind the counter put the oval pitas on the baking sheet or whatever was taking them into the oven, and they’re served piping hot to the point of blistering your fingers in a wire basket.  I had a butterflied broiled chicken that was served over crispy home fried potatoes with a wonderful salad; my companions had a mixed grill of beef and lamb, chicken shawarma, and this eggplant-chickpea-warm yogurt-pomegranate seed thing that I didn’t get to try but my friend assured me was terrific.  They serve a garlic puree with some of their dishes—let me tell you, that is some deliciously pungent stuff.  It’s like Mediterranean wasabi—you don’t get the taste out of your head very easily. Not that you want to.  
We also had a quick sandwich at a place called the Caboose Café in Alexandria—roast beef and grilled cheese, and a slice of lemon pound cake.  Excellent food and cheerful service, and the place is as cute as can be.  The lemon pound cake was presumably to go but it didn’t make it out the front door.

<message edited by Nancypalooza on Thu, 01/8/09 8:26 PM>

wanderingjew
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 7:22 PM
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Nancypalooza

I'm glad you got to make it to the Eastern Market. I was there last August and I'm surprised to see they're still in that temporary tent.

I went to Market Lunch, but didn't think that the crab cake I had was anything special, although the fresh cut fries that came with it were good.

So, I guess you didn't try the pig's head?

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 8:20 PM
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You know the problem with a pig's head is probably where to start.  Not to mention the glass in front of it.  :)  I wish I had a ruminant's stomach the way some of you guys seem to so I can have Second Breakfast and Elevensies, and I just can't do it.

buffetbuster
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 8:28 PM
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Nancy-
Absolutely gorgeous photos!  You must have a terrific camera.  And thanks for thinking of me with the pie photo.  Maybe I missed it, but what is the mini Washington Monument and Lincoln memorial made out of?

Iraqi corned beef, huh? 


ChiTownDiner
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 8:41 PM
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Nancy -

Great finds and descriptions...Busboys and Poets looks so warm and comforable...sorta like going out and eating at home all at once! 

BTW - Love the Jefferson quote - so appropriate! 

billyboy
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 9:50 PM
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Nancy- great, great report!  Love the pics and the descriptions.  That Iraqi corned beef sounds delicious. Busboys and Poets sounds like my kind of place.

ann peeples
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 10:15 PM
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Nancy-loved the pics and the allusions to......hmmmmm.

ellen4641
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 10:48 PM
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Great pics and narrative, Nancy!
I won't be taking home that pigs head, but your "broiled butterflied chicken, over home fries" sounded real good!


mar52
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 01/8/09 11:29 PM
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Great photos but I have trouble with head shots.  (wink)



Ahi Mpls.
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:14 AM
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YAY!!! now I'll have a visual the next time I read  about poor Frankie carrying home christmas dinner in " Angela's ashes" 

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:25 AM
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Nancy, Great photo tour.

Don't you just love looking in a meat case and having something looking back at you?
 
And why would that plant remind you of us?

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:34 AM
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Oh, I'm always giving the posters here crap about being cranky old men.  Old man cactus . . what do you think I'm talking about there Joe?  :)

Cliff, that is just the $175 Canon that Consumer Reports perennially recommends.  I finally wised up about somebody's suggestion here, actually, and I try to make sure I'm using as much natural light as possible, so we sat by the window at Busboys & Poets, etc.  In fact a lot of times when I don't have pictures--like the Taverna--I don't take it out when I think that I have a bad shot at getting good pictures.  But thank you.  It is due to absolutely no skill on my part.  As for the stuff on the monuments, I never saw a sign that explained what they were made of; it's something natural-ish but it looked too uniform to be bark.  I'm thinking it's some kind of florist's tape.  I actually have more of the buildings in my flickr set if you're interested: http://flickr.com/photos/nancypalooza/sets/72157612213290429/

annie I also have more pictures of Plants with Filthy Names.  Because I am twelve. :)

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:36 AM
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Oh, and I keep forgetting to add this; one morning we had breakfast at a Le Pain Quotidien, which I believe Michael Stern wrote about a few months back.  It's a small high-end chain and they really emphasize the baked goods.  We had a basket of assorted slices of bread, and they have these pots of various butters and jams on the tables.  They have this apricot preserve stuff that you would kill for.  I know you're thinking, apricot.  It is the stuff, man.  I slathered it all over a pain au chocolat and stuffed myself.  And now I find that I can't order it online and I am really sad.  I'm gonna have to wait until the next time I'm in LA to get some.

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:39 AM
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Nancypalooza


Oh, I'm always giving the posters here crap about being cranky old men.  Old man cactus . . what do you think I'm talking about there Joe?  :)

Cliff, that is just the $175 Canon that Consumer Reports perennially recommends.  I finally wised up about somebody's suggestion here, actually, and I try to make sure I'm using as much natural light as possible, so we sat by the window at Busboys & Poets, etc.  In fact a lot of times when I don't have pictures--like the Taverna--I don't take it out when I think that I have a bad shot at getting good pictures.  But thank you.  It is due to absolutely no skill on my part.  As for the stuff on the monuments, I never saw a sign that explained what they were made of; it's something natural-ish but it looked too uniform to be bark.  I'm thinking it's some kind of florist's tape.  I actually have more of the buildings in my flickr set if you're interested: http://flickr.com/photos/nancypalooza/sets/72157612213290429/

annie I also have more pictures of Plants with Filthy Names.  Because I am twelve. :)

 
Yeah, those old guys are a Prickly bunch".


Ivyhouse
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:46 AM
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Nancy --

Great photos!  You went to one of my favorites -- Lebanese Taverna.  Everything I have tried is wonderful  -- the last time I was there (this past Monday - Bethesda) I got the baba ghannouge, a kafta kabob sandwich, and a date & nut filled pastry called mamoul (I think).  Always fresh, always delicious and yes, the pita is made right there -- mine was still hot when I got it.
 
Next time I am in the District will have to try Busboys and Poets -- looks very nice.

buffetbuster
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Fri, 01/9/09 9:54 AM
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I did check out the rest of the photos and they look just as good.  You are a natural photographer!  Thanks for letting me see them.

Oh, and we are all twelve!

Mrs.Crunch
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 10:45 AM
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Nancypalooza,
WOW!! Fantastic Job!! I have never been to D.C.....
You are a breakfast girl just like me!

<message edited by Mrs.Crunch on Sun, 01/11/09 10:46 AM>

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 4:42 PM
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Thanks Mrs. C and everybody else for the nice words; I do like my breakfast.  :)

FriedClamFanatic
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 4:58 PM
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Great shots, Nancy! And a wonderful report.

A few years back, my wife and I took our daughter to the National Zoo a cple of days before Christmas - we had to be in DC for other business.  It was fascinating! No crowds, of course, and because it was cold, the animals were all moving around a bit. They were all interested in watching us as much as we were in watching them

John A
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 5:22 PM
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Outstanding report and pictures. Easy for me to rate it five stars, too bad there is not a plus. What model Canon is that?

HDtravlr1
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 9:28 PM
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Great trip report and very timely for me as I am going to DC in a couple of weeks.

Thanks

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 9:38 PM
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John A


What model Canon is that?



Thanks John--that is a Canon PowerShot A560.  I don't know if Photobucket also does this, but Flickr will tell you the kind of camera that was used for a picture--it's on the picture's individual page.  (Yes I had to go look--I don't ever remember.)  It's about a year old and the models change about that frequently so they may be onto the next iteration of it now.

FCF I also love the National Zoo, except for the orangutan and gorilla exhibits.  I always have problems with those; they look too much like people for me to feel okay standing there goggling at them.

HD I love DC because you can just never do the same things twice and so much of it is free.  I mean, not really because our taxes are paying for it, but it's nice that you can just walk into your country's best museums.
 

Tony Bad
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 10:11 PM
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Nancypalooza


FCF I also love the National Zoo, except for the orangutan and gorilla exhibits.  I always have problems with those; they look too much like people for me to feel okay standing there goggling at them.


You mean like this?



They were really doing a lot of work at the zoo when I was there in October 2008. The "Asia" trail is complete, and based on that, it is going to be magnificent when it is all done!


oh...and to add...great pictures and report. You certainly found some interesting places!
 

<message edited by Tony Bad on Sun, 01/11/09 10:16 PM>

wanderingjew
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Sun, 01/11/09 10:57 PM
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Nancypalooza


FCF I also love the National Zoo, except for the orangutan and gorilla exhibits.  I always have problems with those; they look too much like people for me to feel okay standing there goggling at them.


Compared to "some folks" I won't mention,  I think you just offended the orangutans and gorillas.



leethebard
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 3:24 AM
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Nancy,enjoyed your pictures...interesting and very artistic...even the pig's head!

mr chips
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 4:34 AM
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Loved the photos and reading of your adventures.

MiamiDon
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 7:07 AM
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Lovely pictures and report, Nancy.  Did you folks dine while sitting on a sofa at Busboys and Poets?

John A
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 7:24 AM
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Thanks John--that is a Canon PowerShot A560. I don't know if Photobucket also does this, but Flickr will tell you the kind of camera that was used for a picture--it's on the picture's individual page. (Yes I had to go look--I don't ever remember.

 
Thanks Nancy, I use an old A570. I'm not able to find  how you can see what kind of camera is used???

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 8:44 AM
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Ivy I loved the Taverna; the menu was so huge it looks like you could go there for years and never get the same thing twice.  I was also mesmerized by the giant lamb and chicken roastie-cylinders in the kitchen. 

Don we did not sit on a sofa at B&P; I tend to make a royal mess trying to eat an actual meal like that but I did notice a little family nearby who were using the sofa to kind of keep the kid contained, you know?  Very helpful for that sort of thing.
 
John I can't get a screen capture saved as a .jpeg but you have to click on the individual picture to be on the page where you'd see comments, etc. and it's on the right toward the bottom, near where it tells you whether it's public or private.  Tells you when it was taken too, and where if they've mapped it.

WJ I was there back in 99 or so and one of the orangutans was trying to cover up with this bit of fabric they had in their display and sleep and I just felt like I was invading their personal space.  Didn't like it.

John A
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 12:45 PM
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Aha, TY.

Scorereader
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 2:10 PM
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I've haven't been to the site in a few days, so I'm a bit of a johnny come lately, but  Great pics Nancy! Looks like you had some good eats.

The best part of living and working on the hill is Eastern Market. Glad you went. Maybe next time you come to DC, they'll be done with the original building.

WJ: The building, except for the facade, had to be entirely rebuilt. The fire gutted and destroyed the whole thing. Hence, it's taking a long time to rebuild. Remember, this is DC afterall.

I'm looking forward to the re-opening, but the current temp building is a heck of a lot cleaner than the old market pre-fire. But, a bit short on charm.

I go there every Sat morning for b'fast and vegetables.

Nancy, you've got a lot more visits to polish off my list! ;o)
But, since you went to Woodley Park AND Cap Hill, you've hit two of the three neighborhoods I've lived in. Woodley Park was my last neighborhood before moving to eastern Hill. Before that I live in glover Park - sometimes mislabelled as: upper Georgetown.

Lebanese Taverna was a Woodley Park favorite, but next door to that is a wonderful sushi place called Saki's. Of course, they have a wonderful selection of Saki, but the fresh, and artistically prepared sushi made me a believer in sushi.

thanks again for sharing your trip pics and descriptions!


CajunKing
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 3:56 PM
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Nancy

Great report, I haven't been to DC in some time, my Aunt & Uncle used to live in Arlington, but have since moved to central VA, so no trips to DC.

Looks like I need to make a trip back, you hit some great places.
 
Scorereader
 
My first taste of sushi was in DC, I wish I could remember the name of the place, it was not far from the air and space museum.  They had a nearly blind bartender who would put his finger into the glass and fill the drink to his finger. (hey the alcohol killed the germs)
 
My uncle would eat there alot.
<message edited by CajunKing on Mon, 01/12/09 4:02 PM>

Nancypalooza
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 4:59 PM
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So Score, when was I in Woodley Park and when was I in Capitol Hill?  I remember Georgetown pretty vividly and I heard the story about how they voted so the Metro wouldn't go there and all that--we took the Circulator!  I love that name!--and I know when I'm in Crystal City.  So the Eastern is Capitol Hill?  Then was I in Woodley Park for the Taverna or for Poets & Busboys?

Also, I may have heard tell that apparently the Library of Congress has the World's Greatest Archive of Porn.  Is this true or an urban legend?

Scorereader
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 5:37 PM
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ok. When you were at Eastern Market, you were on Capital Hill.
eastern Hill, is even further east than where you were. Near RFK is East Cap Hill. But it's all Cap Hill, from the Capital to RFK Stadium.
Metro Stops on Cap Hill include Capital South, Eastern Market, Potomac Ave, Stadium/Armory on Orange Line, and Union Station on Red Line.

Eastern Market is between my house and my work (Madison Building of Library of Congress)

Woodley Park is the Zoo and Lebanese Taverna.

Glover Park, is north of Georgetown going up Wisconsin Avenue.

My job moved temporarily to Crystal City from 7-2006-10/2007. It was an ok place. (Restautrant Row on 23rd Steet is a cool place), but I hated the commute. Something about living in the city and commuting to VA sat wrong with me.

Anyway, I'm glad you had a good time. Hope you come back soon!

The beauty of visiting DC is that getting here is the big cost - the museums, are free.


the ancient mariner
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 01/12/09 6:16 PM
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Last time I was there the Cherry Trees were in bloom.  It was 1999
and the whole area was snow white ---- cherry blossoms were every where.  I must have taken 50 pictures of couples who asked me to snap them, or who I volunteered to ------ most of them were Japanese who probably came to the US to check out their gift to us.  Ah so !!!!

The Clintons did not come out and visit with us so they are on my list !





 


i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 05/11/09 10:36 AM
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Nancypalooza


I had some great advice from Scorereader (thanks man!)—I asked him for one place and he gave me about fifteen. So between his recommendations and my friends’ we settled on Busboys and Poets on 14th Street. The sign:  

 

 
 
Went here for Mother's Day brunch yesterday and we couldn't have chosen a better place. Nancypalooza's great write-up and photos commencing this thread captured my sentiments exactly and a local DC paper hailing Busboys and Poets as having "a mellow and inviting vibe that accommodates families with small children, beer-swilling bohemians and couples on a cozy first date — all on the same weekend evening" proved equally true.
 
Our five-person selections of the Mediterranean burger (onions, parsley, ground beef with goat cheese on a whole wheat pita), turkey burgers (with chipotle mayo) and "Spinach & Wheat Berry" salad (baby spinach, candied walnuts, sun dried cranberries, etc.) topped with grilled shrimp were each top-notch.
 
Very inviting. Great food. Brunch 'til 3:00 pm. And with Ben's literally around the corner if any of your RoadFooders needed a pre-meal "primer." What's not to like?
 
 


divefl
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 05/11/09 10:44 AM
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I missed this report in January. Glad to see it popped up.

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 10:53 AM
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I am heading to the DC Area this weekend.  I enjoyed Nancy's report so I thought I would dig it up in my quest for info.
 
Staying on king Street, where are the must eats?(let me cut the Five Guys smart a$$es off right here) Any good Italian within walking distance? 

wanderingjew
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 11:08 AM
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joerogo


I am heading to the DC Area this weekend.  I enjoyed Nancy's report so I thought I would dig it up in my quest for info.

Staying on king Street, where are the must eats?(let me cut the Five Guys smart a$$es off right here) Any good Italian within walking distance? 


Joe,
 
Not sure where King Street is, but if you take the Metro - there's a really good Ethiopian Restaurant right across the street from Ben's Chili Bowl called Dukem. I went there 2 years ago-
http://www.dukemrestaurant.com/
 

i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 11:09 AM
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Um, there is no King Street in D.C.

 

I believe there's a King Place in the city's Foxhall section

but no King Street. Might you be referring to King Street in

Alexandria, VIRGINIA -- and directly across the

Potomac River from D.C.


rumaki
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 11:10 AM
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Are you going to be in Old Town Alexandria, VA? 
 
My husband and I lived in Old Town for nearly 20 years, and this was our favorite Italian place: Geranio's.
Excellent fish, and very good fried calamari. 
 
http://www.geranio.net/information.htm

i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 11:25 AM
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BTW and if it was King Street in Alexandria, Virginia where

you were looking and for Italian dining, look no further than:

 

 

http://www.rusticorestaurant.com/index.html

 

It's located just north of Old Town Alexandria'a King Street location (but before the Washington Sailing Marina) and, at least in the past, has featured beer popsicles for dessert (in addition to great contemporary and Italian-influenced fare) -- seriously, what's not to like?
 
However ON King Street -- and where I, not long ago, enjoyed a great fish & chips meal with The Travelin Man -- is the venerable (as well as VERY small and VERY informal):
 

 

http://www.eamonnsdublinchipper.com/

 

Very, very good.
 
 
(P.S. Look for the modern day speakeasy PX right next to Eamonn's and identifiable by the blue light. Seriously.)

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 12:27 PM
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wanderingjew, Thanks for the info.  Never had Ethiopian, but willing to try anything.
 
rumaki, I don't really know my way around this area, but we are staying at the Hilton on King Street.  Thanks for the info on Geranio's.
 
i95, If you check my post you will see I mentioned the DC "AREA". 
 
Rustico looks good, especially the pizza and toppings.  Lots of beer, no mention of wine though.  Thanks!  
 
Boy, too bad I missed the meet-up at Eamonn's.  I know we would have had a swell time
 
 
 
 

i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 12:55 PM
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joerogo


i95, If you check my post you will see I mentioned the DC "AREA". 

 
Merry Christmas.


joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 1:08 PM
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i95

joerogo

i95, If you check my post you will see I mentioned the DC "AREA". 

Merry Christmas.

 
Thanks Buddy!
 
You up for breakfast on Saturday...


i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 1:28 PM
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Sure. Meet me here.

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Thu, 11/4/10 6:11 PM
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i95


Sure. Meet me here.

I don't get it?

Scorereader
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Tue, 11/16/10 2:48 PM
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Joe - sorry I missed this thread. How could that be?
Hope you had a good trip.  I would've had suggestions for King Street/Old Yown Alexandria.
 
be sure to let us know where you ended up eating.

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Tue, 11/16/10 3:08 PM
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Scorereader, Thanks buddy, I'll be back.
 
My daughter just moved from Old Town to Arlington.  This was my first trip to see her new place, my wife has been there several times.  So, when my wife told me to book the Hilton on King Street, I did what I was told.  Just like every good husband would.
 
When we got there and I found out we were eight miles from my daughter, I asked why she wanted to stay here?  She said the breakfast was good at this hotel.  So, I should have been asking for help in Arlington, not Old Town.  Just don't tell i95
 
We had a good dinner at Sette Bello in Arlington.  Decent enough trendy, Italian food  And a great lunch at Ray's Hell Burger.  Both were easy walking from my daughters new digs.

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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 11/29/10 4:39 PM
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would you believe they've closed Sette Bello?
 
But Sette Osteria is still open in Dupont circle. Maybe I should give this place a try before it also "takes a little break to look for a more intimate location."
 
 

joerogo
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 11/29/10 7:17 PM
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Scorereader

would you believe they've closed Sette Bello?  

 
Wow!  It had to be the overhead crushing them.  The place is huge and it was packed.  You never know

i95
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Re:Weekend in the District of Columbia - Mon, 11/29/10 7:39 PM
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In news of another restaurant closing also in Arlington, see here