Gumbo: With or without okra?

I was told by a family friend from New Orleans that gumbo although slightly different family to family, eatery to eatery that a general rule of thumb is that New Orleans or Creole style gumbo has no okra but Louisianna or Southern style gumbo does include okra.
 
What is your take on this? Do you use okra in your gumbo?
 
 

Yes.

mark

Gumbo without okra?  No way!

Gumbo without okra?  No way!

I don't like snot in my Gumbo, NO Okra!

Sure. No need for okra, as long as the file is in there.

I never liked okra.  Even fried okra seemed bland and "snotty".
The first time I had it in a good gumbo, I was hooked.  It adds a depth, flavor and texture that cant be beat.  I even find myself fishing for the okra pieces.

If you have fried okra at New Orleans to Go I think you may like it.

Its not that I mind fried okra.  Ill always get some at a buffet and have ordered it as a side.  It just doesnt have a lot of flavor, for me.  I end up dipping it in steak sauce or BBQ sauce, etc.
britt

Fried okra has many different flavors depending on the spice blend in the batter.  New Orleans to Go has some of the best I have ever eaten in my 65 years on this Earth.

In the recipe CajunKing gave me for gumbo, okra wasnt included .I put it in at the last possible minute, and dont seem to get the "snot" effect.I also feel it adds alot to the flavor of the gumbo.
And in the true sense of gumbo, according to my Louisiana freiends, File powder is to be sprinkled on top of the finished product, not mixed in as an ingredient....

Gumbo is from "gombo", meaning okra. I wouldn't think of making mine without it.

shortchef


Gumbo is from "gombo", meaning okra. I wouldn't think of making mine without it.

 
Gombo, great name for a Mastiff or some other big dog!

shortchef


Gumbo is from "gombo", meaning okra. I wouldn't think of making mine without it.

There ya go--------------rule of thumb---------------gumbo--- creole style---optional---if used sliced very thin and not too dominant---more like an elegant soup.
If it is gumbo cajun style then it is a grand stew and chunky okra-----sometime in both preps cooks will omit okra and use file powder to flavor---not much--and thicken.
 Russ
 
 

okra is always in my gumbo!

With.
And if it doesn't have Okra, it better have file'.

Chili without beans, but gumbo with okra.

Being from Gumbo Country (St. Martinville, LA) and married to a gumbo expert  (my wife, from Mamou, LA) I have to chime in...
 
I don't like okra in my gumbo.  Never have.  My grandmaw only made okra gumbo (with shrimp) in okra season, and I dreaded it.  Even though hers had no tomatoes (this is Cajun country), I still didn't like the slimy texture.  That's not to say I don't like okra.  God knows I picked enough of it!  It's good stewed, pickled, or fried, but I don't like it in gumbo.
 
To me, gumbo is one of two varieties:  Hen and sausage (my favorite) or seafood (crabmeat, shrimp, dried shrimp, oysters).  Both with a dark roux.
 
Sorry for the N'awlins crew out there.  Just my opinion.
 
cy

Don't know why, but I've never had a slimy experience with any batch of gumbo I've ever produced with okra.  I wonder if Shirley Corriher could comment.
 

No okra for me, I don't like the "snot" either.



Dennis in Cary

With!

cy_dugas


Being from Gumbo Country (St. Martinville, LA) and married to a gumbo expert  (my wife, from Mamou, LA) I have to chime in...
 
I don't like okra in my gumbo.  Never have.  My grandmaw only made okra gumbo (with shrimp) in okra season, and I dreaded it.  Even though hers had no tomatoes (this is Cajun country), I still didn't like the slimy texture.  That's not to say I don't like okra.  God knows I picked enough of it!  It's good stewed, pickled, or fried, but I don't like it in gumbo.
 
To me, gumbo is one of two varieties:  Hen and sausage (my favorite) or seafood (crabmeat, shrimp, dried shrimp, oysters).  Both with a dark roux.
 
Sorry for the N'awlins crew out there.  Just my opinion. 
cy

 
Cy_Dugas took the words right out of my mouth, I Guar-on-tee 

My friends Mr. Aucoin and Mr. Ocmond down in Cajun country both want it "wit" okra.  (Have they been visiting Philly too often?)

Don't mean to be an "I told you so", but from the start, seemed obvious no conclusion was going to be reached other than "whatever floats your pirogue".

I like any okra in a soup or stew fried only.
The only time I like it boiled slimy is when I am making fungi.

http://recipes.caribseek.com/Saint_Thomas/okra-fungi.shtml

Okra all the way.  I will eat it in any form or fashion.  Yes.  I love it marinated raw in salads also.

Is the purpose of Okra in anything used for a thickner?
 
I raise okra every year in my garden.  100% of the time it is fried with a corn meal coating until it is brown in bacon grease with a little salt and pepper.  Great as a snack or as a side.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Sundancer7


Is the purpose of Okra in anything used for a thickner?
 
I raise okra every year in my garden.  100% of the time it is fried with a corn meal coating until it is brown in bacon grease with a little salt and pepper.  Great as a snack or as a side.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

In a way.  The sticky liquid inside of okra does help as a thickening agent.  I eat okra because i like it; the least favorite way being fried.  (No offense ;).

It just aint Gumbo without it...... There outta be a law!

Sundancer7


Is the purpose of Okra in anything used for a thickner?
 
I raise okra every year in my garden.  100% of the time it is fried with a corn meal coating until it is brown in bacon grease with a little salt and pepper.  Great as a snack or as a side.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Call me crazy, but I've never even thought of it as a thickener; just a great ingredient.  I've always considered the roux the thickener.

Seafood gumbo with okra, chicken, turkey or duck gumbo with sausage and file.

I read a suggestion that you fry your okra a little drain it a d theb add to the gumbo. This keeps it from being slimy. I have to have okra in my gumbo, but okra, fried or stewed is one of my favorite vegetables

emsmom


I read a suggestion that you fry your okra a little drain it a d theb add to the gumbo. This keeps it from being slimy. I have to have okra in my gumbo, but okra, fried or stewed is one of my favorite vegetables

You took the post right from my finger tips!  And yes, to okra!  My BF doesn't care for it so I do flash fry it but would prefer not to.

Frozen okra, cooked as directed, does not end up slimy in gumbo. Shoot... I hate that! The slimyer the better for me! I can eat my weight in slimy boiled okra... mmmm. :~)
Joe

Yes, I'm a boiled okra lover, too, PapaJoe8.  Perhaps because of my Southern heritage. 

You're right, I've never had a problem with frozen okra in ending up slimy in gumbo.  Don't recall whether I've used fresh okra in gumbo or not.

N'AWLINS OKRA STEW

 

This stew is rather tame for a Cajun dish. But those who like their N'awlins cuisine a little perkier can toss in more of the Cajun seasoning, stir well, and cook a few minutes longer to combine the flavors. To serve famtheily style, cook up a batch of brown rice and spoon the okra stew over the top. You can also serve the stew in individual bowls as a side dish. Traditionally the onions and peppers would be fried in oil before adding the remaining ingredients. Omitting the oil makes this dish truly low calorie and low fat. If you don't have a kitchen scale at home, weigh the tomatoes and okra when you purchase them at the market in order to have the proper quantities. Measuring by weight gives more consistent results in a recipe.
 
 
1 1/4 lbs. (560 g) fresh tomatoes, coarsely chopped
1 1/4 lbs. (560 g) fresh okra, washed, stem ends trimmed off
1 large purple onion, coarsely chopped
1 red bell pepper, diced
2 large cloves garlic, minced
1/2 t. Cajun seasoning
1/2 t. dried thyme leaves
1/2 t. dried oregano
1/2 t. dried marjoram
1/4 t. fennel seeds, crushed in a mortar and pestle
1/2 t. salt or to taste
Freshly ground black pepper to taste
2 C. (480 ml) water 2 T. cornstarch
2 T. water

1. Combine the tomatoes, okra, onion, bell pepper, garlic, Cajun seasoning, thyme, oregano, marjoram, fennel seeds, salt, and pepper in a large, deep skillet or wok. Pour the 2 C. (480 ml) water in and cook over high heat, stirring frequently for 7 to 10 minutes, or until the okra feels tender when gently pierced with a fork.
2. Combine cornstarch and water in a small bowl or cup and stir thoroughly to make a smooth, runny paste. Add the paste to bubbling okra stew a little at a time, stirring constantly, until thickened to desired consistency. Adjust seasonings if needed.Serves 6.

In answer to a couple of responses...

There are supposed to be 3 thickeners used in gumbo.  They can all be used, or a combination.
Roux, file', okra.  My "nanny" was an African American lady we all called Aggie.  She made an okra gumbo with only okra and dried shrimp.  My grandmaw on my Dad's side makes okra gumbo with a roux.  So does Maw.  My wife's mom makes seafood gumbo with a dark roux and adds file', but no okra.  My former boss George's wife made a ham and okra gumbo with tomato, but no file' or roux.  I don't know.  I never really think about the thickener.  I like my gumbo kind of thin, but usually add a bunch file' powder for taste, not thickening.  Sorry, but I still don't like okra in my gumbo.

cy

I actually made a pot of gumbo for dinner tonight - smoked chicken and andouille sausage.  I always like a dark roux - even in a seafood gumbo - but I never use tomatoes and seldom add okra but will add file'.

  I have several different strains of French -Cajun -Louisiana people as in laws and they all have definite opinions on what gumbo should or should not be - but I think it's like everything else about cooking - it's about what you like -



 

This is America and that means you can make your foods anyway you like, be it Gumbo, potato salad or chili or anything else. Thank goodness we have the resources that the rest of the world does not enjoy. Personally, no Okra in my Gumbo, NO BEANS in my Chili and no sugar in my coffee!

I guess Gumbo is kinda like chili... and Jazz. Make it however you want. And... every pot has it's own soul. :~)
Joe

Oh... I forgot. I only have one rule for cooking. There are no rules.

Well said, PapaJoe8.

PapaJoe8
I guess Gumbo is kinda like chili... and Jazz. Make it however you want. And... every pot has it's own soul. :~)
Much respect Papa Joe for an excellent analogy, as a fanatic of the world's best music jazz, you summed it up perfectly, in fact jazz is a reflection of gumbo, throw in ingredients from  the US and Caribbean into a pot and out comes a new and improved product, no difference jazz or gumbo= both from New Orleans
 




 

Foodbme

This is America and that means you can make your foods anyway you like, be it Gumbo, potato salad or chili or anything else. Thank goodness we have the resources that the rest of the world does not enjoy. Personally, no Okra in my Gumbo, NO BEANS in my Chili and no sugar in my coffee!

 
What a tasteless remark, all over the world in any nation or region, among any ethnic group,  folks make their foods any way they want too, even in totalitarian states.

Thanks Baileys and Jonjax! Say enough stuff and sometimes something makes sense... maybe?

Jonjax, are you a member of the Teagarden society? Jack Jeagarden that is. All you have to do to be a member is like his jazz. :~)

I think what FoodB said is that we are lucky to have the resources to make things anyway we like.

Oh, but I do think that in Texas it is against the law to put beens in your chili. Just joking! Just read the chili section here and you will get it. :~)
Joe

OK, some of you folks have this exactly opposite of what the facts are.  Creole gumbo ALWAYS has okra in it,and often has tomatoes also.  Cajun gumbo NEVER has okra in it...unless it is OKRA gumbo...which is almost completly okra.  I grew up in Eunice, Louisiana which is right in the middle of Cajun Country and now live in Baton Rouge, which is heavily influenced by New Orleans.  Been eating both styles all my life.  Prefer Cajun.  Again, Creole...always okra, Cajun...never okra...unless it is Okra Gumbo.

Wow, thanks Jbs! I was not going to say it here, good thing... because I ahd always heard that Gumbo somehow ment Okra. Now I know the real deal. Thanks again!!!

And Jbs... welcome to Roadfood! We need the likes of you here!
Joe

Thanks Papajoe.  Hope I didn't come across to strong, just wanted to set the record straight.  For what it's worth, the previous poster who mentioned "gombo" was correct.  That is the origial African name for okra, which came to these shores from...Africa.  What the dish has evolved into today however is divided along the cultural lines I was refering to.   

To suggest that okra is never used in gumbo in Cajun country is simply untrue.  There is no such absolute.  I have many friends in the heart of the area who consistently use it,  and in my travels in the region I consistently see it.  

Poppa
 
I like Jack Teagarden, the Texas trombonist, vocalist, long time Pops Armstrong colleague anf part of a multi-generational music family. That said, I am more of a bop, post bop, noveau bop and modernist, but a lot of my listening goes to the the pre-60s swing classics too.

I can't speak for all of the many West African ethnic groups and their languages, however among many of the Western Africans that were enslaved and brought to Cuba, the US Mainland and other port of calls for the slave trade after the crossing of the Middle Passage, the word for okra is kimbombo and it is considered sacred food for the orishas/deities
 
Our afro-cuban neighbors make an interesting make a sauteed platter of okra in tomato sauce with green peppers, onions, garlic and other condiments. They also serve okra/kimbombo to their orisha altar they have in the living room
 
 

It's almost Mardi-Gras!  That means the smell of beer, boudin, and gumbo!
 
In my earlier response I mentioned my wife and her Mamou upbringing.  If you ever want to taste an authentic Cajun gumbo, you've got to come down to LA and enjoy the country (not city!) Mardi Gras and the inevitable gumbo that goes with it.
 
Andouille, a big hen or rooster, dark roux, lots of Trinity, tons of rice, maybe file'...
 
BUT NO OKRA!
 
Happy Mardi Gras
 
Cy

MellowRoast


To suggest that okra is never used in gumbo in Cajun country is simply untrue.  There is no such absolute.  I have many friends in the heart of the area who consistently use it,  and in my travels in the region I consistently see it.  

 
 
MellowRoast...I believe you...but all that means is that the folks you know are making Creole Gumbo, not Cajun Gumbo...which is a perfectly valid choice on thier part.  That does not change the FACT that Cajun Gumbo does not have okra in it...unless it is specifically okra gumbo...in which case it is almost completly okra to the exclusion of just about everything else! 
 
In a standard , let's say chicken/sausage or seafood gumbo, the presence of okra in the pot, or the lack thereof is what determines whether the gumbo is Creole style or Cajun style.  I never said that no one in Cajun Country makes Creole Gumbo.  My statement was simply to clarify which was which.
 
 


 

I truly find the history of gumbo fascinating-dont know which one I am making, but a good friend shared his recipe, an I go with that....okra in, file sprinkled on top!

You're fixing Creole style...and that is a perfectly valid choice.    Does your friend's recipe include tomatoes?  That is also occasionly included in Creole Gumbo...but like okra, never in Cajun Style. 

jbs780


You're fixing Creole style...and that is a perfectly valid choice.    Does your friend's recipe include tomatoes?  That is also occasionly included in Creole Gumbo...but like okra, never in Cajun Style. 

Now I beg to differ with you on your statements
 
Gumbo is a unique creation and each cook has his own version of what a gumbo consists of.
 
As for the Cajun/Creole argument - I have enjoyed and prepared many a gumbo in and around Lafayette/Breaux Bridge area that included okra.
 
I have always felt the difference lies more with the roux and the use of tomato paste than whether the gumbo has okra.
 
Creole gumbo = lighter roux and tomato paste for a brick reddish color gumbo
Cajun gumbo = darker roux no & tomato paste for a darker brown and smokier flavor
 
Living in Louisiana, you notice that as you travel out of N'awlins with each and every mile you travel to the south and west, recipes are changing ever so slightly.  The flavors become more (I don't want to use "intense" but I can't think of the word I want here) "intense".  Not an over powering use of heat (that goes back to the restraurants "Blackened" which IS NOT cajun, thats burnt)
 
A cajun dish is a well balanced blend of seasoning with the fresh cajun trinity and other ingredients.
 
Back to the OP's question......
 
Gumbo can either have okra or not, neither way is right or wrong, and over the years the lines between cajun/creole have blended.  Just like a good cajun creation, well balanced and delicious.

CajunKing... I was not talking about individual recipes...there are thousands...I was talking about the clearly defined differences in the two styles of the dish.  They are as I have previously explained.  I didn't make this stuff up, and I'm not suggesting that one is style is better than the other, or that any one recipe is the one and only recipe tghat should be made, or whatever.  The cultural differences between the two versions of the dish are what they are.  It does not matter where you are when you make a pot of gumbo.  If you are in Breaux Bridge and you put okra in the pot, you're making creole gumbo.  If you are in downtown New Orleans and you leave the okra (and the tomatos) out of the pot you are making Cajun gumbo.   Both are good!  But they are clearly defined. 
 
The same can be said for jambalaya.  In New Orleans they make Creole Jambalaya.  It ALWAYS has tomatos in it., which gives it a read color.  Cajun jambalaya is brown...no tomatos...and a different flavor also.  Both are good, but the difference is well defined...tomatos-Creole, no tomatos-Cajun.
 
It's ALL GOOD! 

Okra, crayfish, shrimp, sausage, chicken and file powder:



mark 

Now THAT is gumbo, mark! Any leftovers for me to have?

jbs780

MellowRoast


To suggest that okra is never used in gumbo in Cajun country is simply untrue.  There is no such absolute.  I have many friends in the heart of the area who consistently use it,  and in my travels in the region I consistently see it.  

 
 
MellowRoast...I believe you...but all that means is that the folks you know are making Creole Gumbo, not Cajun Gumbo...which is a perfectly valid choice on thier part.  That does not change the FACT that Cajun Gumbo does not have okra in it...unless it is specifically okra gumbo...in which case it is almost completly okra to the exclusion of just about everything else! 
 
In a standard , let's say chicken/sausage or seafood gumbo, the presence of okra in the pot, or the lack thereof is what determines whether the gumbo is Creole style or Cajun style.  I never said that no one in Cajun Country makes Creole Gumbo.  My statement was simply to clarify which was which.
 

Yes, Cajun gumbo is made both with and without okra, for crying out loud.  It's also made with and without chicken, with and without sausage, and with and without crawfish.  And I have loads of Cajun friends who'll be happy to attest to it.  (Zheesh.)

MellowRoast

jbs780

MellowRoast


To suggest that okra is never used in gumbo in Cajun country is simply untrue.  There is no such absolute.  I have many friends in the heart of the area who consistently use it,  and in my travels in the region I consistently see it.  

 
 
MellowRoast...I believe you...but all that means is that the folks you know are making Creole Gumbo, not Cajun Gumbo...which is a perfectly valid choice on thier part.  That does not change the FACT that Cajun Gumbo does not have okra in it...unless it is specifically okra gumbo...in which case it is almost completly okra to the exclusion of just about everything else! 
 
In a standard , let's say chicken/sausage or seafood gumbo, the presence of okra in the pot, or the lack thereof is what determines whether the gumbo is Creole style or Cajun style.  I never said that no one in Cajun Country makes Creole Gumbo.  My statement was simply to clarify which was which.
 

Yes, Cajun gumbo is made both with and without okra, for crying out loud.  It's also made with and without chicken, with and without sausage, and with and without crawfish.  And I have loads of Cajun friends who'll be happy to attest to it.  (Zheesh.)

 
Ok Partner whatever makes you happy.  You live in Chattanooga, and have Cajun friends.  I've lived in south Louisiana 54 years.  Grew up on the stuff, been eating it all my life.  Even took Louisiana History in school for Criminey sake!  But you, know more about Cajun/Creole culture and history and food than I do.  I admit it.