Stainless Steel Charcoal Grill

I was going to wait and post this project when it was done but it’s moving along a little slower than I thought and I just can’t wait to share it. Besides you all may come up with some creative ideas on how to make it better. I’ll post more pictures as I go along so you all can see the steps involved.

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it when I look at most anything connected with cooking I think how can I or can I use that? Will it make my operation better and create a buzz when I’m at an event. As I have posted in the past if you put me next to another vendor that sells an equal product with an equal price I’ll figure out how to sell more food using fire and smoke or some other sort of pizzazz.

That said about 5 or 6 months ago I stumbled on a ebay auction for an old stainless steel steam kettle from a high school in Iowa. But they wanted $2500.00 for it. When I looked at it all I saw was a GREAT BIG all Stainless Steel  CHARCOAL GRILL sitting right in front of my trailer at events full of Black Angus All Beef Hot Dogs, Spicy Sausage, Polish Sausage, and Cajun Sausage, with smoke gently rolling off of it and all those great smells to draw a crowd. And being the envy of every guy that cooks on a Weber grill in his back yard. LOL

But $2500. Was way too high for this adventure so every day I searched Ebay auctions for another. Finally I found a small one without a lid in Chicago but it wasn’t listed in the right category and had a starting bid of only $99.00 So I watched and waited. In the mean time there was an equipment vendor in Detroit that had listed a really big Steam Kettle 3 or 4 times for $975.00 and it didn’t sell. The pictures weren’t very good and it wasn’t very clean, so no one had bid on it. I emailed him but he just wouldn’t come off the price. Finally the Chicago unit auction was ending right in the middle of my lunch rush and I had to tell a customer he had to wait until I bought this thing on Ebay. Instead of being upset he was laughing his ass off. So I got the Chicago Steam Kettle for $99.00. Here is a picture of it.  



I drove up to Chicago on the following Monday and arrived to pick up my kettle at 10:00 am. After loading it I asked to use the companies computer for a few moments and sent a note to the guy in Detroit. I sent him my cell phone number, and a picture of the steam kettle in my truck  and told him I could be in Detroit in 3 hours but I wanted to trade my steam kettle and cash for his. He called me and said he had to have $500. difference and I said I’ll see you when I get there. So I got to Detroit and we traded plus $500 cash and we both were happy. I was back in Springfield by 7:00PM. Here is the unit I traded/bought.

 


Now the big Steam kettle is 38 inches across so I ordered the Grill, and Charcoal Grate from a Ranch King Grill from Weber. They are 37 inches across. It came in last Friday. It fits perfectly as does the charcoal grate. The grill has hinged sides so you can add charcoal for a long cook, very cool. So now after cutting all the extra pipe connections off and finding a good temp gauge for one of the holes, we are cutting 6 one inch holes in the bottom so it can breathe. I'm as I write this waiting to buy again on an ebay auction 4 Stainless Steel Sale Boat Locker Vents as per below. These will go on the lid.




After I get all of this done it’ll go to a polishing company so it will look brand new. And then we will build a small stainless steel trailer with a removable tongue so that it can be towed to events and parked right in front of my concession trailer.  

One last thought: In case you’re not aware a steam kettle is double walled and under normal use steam is pumped in between the walls in order to cook soups without direct heat. Now after I get the outside polished and all the vents attached I'll use it at events the rest of this summer, but my full intent is in the winter to wield all the vent holes in the kettle shut so that the air can get into the kettle but the double walled section can again be water tight. Then drill a series of small holes around the inside about 4 inches above  the food level so that as the mixture of wood and charcoal burns it heats the water in-between the walls turns it to steam and it keeps coming out of the small holes and keeps the food moist. It'll be just a very tiny mist nothing severe.

I wish I was an engineer so I’d know how big and how many holes to drill but we will start very small and with a minimum number and do a trial and error testing until we get it right. So what do you think?   The Worlds Only Stainless Steel Weber Grill LOL    

You've got an interesting idea, but I think you're going to work on your proof of concept.  Having been the Director of Manufacturing Engineering for Groen in Jackson, MS, I know a little bit about how a steam jacketed kettle works.

Before I get into it, I'll preface my comments by saying that I may not fully understand what you plan to do or what you plan to cook during the winter, so my post may be worthless.

First of all, most kettles are not double-walled all the way up to the lip of the kettle.  In most cases, it's only the bottom half of the kettle that is double-walled.  If your kettle is constructed that way and you drill holes four inches above your food line, you'll also be above your double-walled portion of the kettle. 

If your kettle is indeed double-walled all the way to the top, you'll still have some engineering problems to solve.  If you're going to release steam into the cooking chamber, how do you plan to handle the supply side of the source of the steam, which obviously is water?  If you're producing steam that's released into the atmosphere, the water must be replaced, but it must be controlled so that you don't force water up the inside of the kettle and out the steam vent holes you drilled into the inner wall of the kettle.  This can be accomplished with a valve between your steam generator and your kettle, if you had an external boiler to produce the steam.  Because you plan to produce the steam by means of a heat source under the kettle, you've got a whole different kettle of fish, and keeping your water supply at a workable level could be problematic.  

If you release the steam into the cooking chamber, that means you no longer have a pressure vessel and the result will be that you will only be reaching a temperature of 212 degrees within the jacketed portion of the kettle.  The reason a steam-jacketed kettle works so well is because the steam under pressure reaches much higher temperatures than 212 degrees.  By drilling holes into the inner wall, you no longer have a pressure vessel and the water in the lower portion of the kettle will actually then serve as an insulator and prevent you from reaching temperatures much higher than 212 degrees.  You'll pretty much end up with a big "double boiler".  I don't know what you're planning on cooking in this "winter version", but if you don't need real high temperatures, you may be OK.

Unfortunately, the laws of thermodynamics may keep you from doing exactly what you hope to do.

If I've misunderstood your intent and purpose, I apologize for wasting space on this thread. ;)

Jman,
Your not BSing me about Having been the Director of Manufacturing Engineering for Groen in Jackson, MS, are you, and no disrespect meant?

I want some proof and if you were, you’re a god’s send. And please don’t take that in a bad way but someone can come to a forum and announce they were most anything and the group would never know the truth. In fact just a few months ago we went through that with a guy who called himself Spud, who when caught disappeared with some debilitating illness.By the way this unit is a 1965 model did you work for Groen then? Can you get me some specs if I give you the model number?

But that said you did misunderstand or more likely I did not give a very good description of my objective. First what I cook year around is mostly the same but the winter months allow me to spend more time on projects than do the summer months. So I’ll start with the trial and error experiments after my main season slows during the winter months. I don’t need actual steam I need moisture. I want to keep the cooking area moist.

The area in the top of any smoker, or grill dries food quickly especially after reaching a temp of anything over 240 degrees. Charcoal cookers can easily get to 500 degrees and in fact the perfect steak cooking temp is between 400 and 500 degrees. Look at Ruth Chris Steak Houses’ http://www.ruthschris.com  Our famous steaks are seared to perfection at 1800 degrees and topped with fresh butter so they sizzle all the way to your table.

My kettle is double walled to the halfway point as you indicated, but my cooking grate is also at the, or just below the halfway point. But it really doesn’t matter as long as the water level is above the charcoal/wood cooking level. See below.

I want to fill (maybe not fill) the lower portion with water through the old steam in line. Once the water has been put into what has become a water reservoir I’ll cap the system, just like your car radiator. Then the heat from the charcoal will heat the water trapped between the two walls. Pressure cannot become a problem because of the holes along and just above the food cooking grate.

 It’s my thought that the heat from the charcoal/ wood will heat that water to a temp that is considerable higher than 212 degrees; and all it need do is produce some evaporation through the holes that will flow into the cooking area. I don’t want a bunch of steam rolling into the cooking area just moisture rich mixture of air as the water in the bottom evaporates. Too much water/moisture would be worse than too little water/moisture. After I experiment over time I’ll know how often I need to replace the water in the bottom of the cooker.

So now what do you think?

One more question, do you know of a really good product/procedure  I can use to polish the outside of my cooker, I’d rather do it myself if I can.

Drof BBQ  love the idea on grill and moisture.
Do you have drill, some help in polishing. Get buffers and jewels rough from hobbie shops or woodworking places. Course to final polish. Love to see final product. If you see highly polished wheels and tanks on Trucks this is what they use or can take to truckstop and they will do, for a charge.
High speed buffers and rough. Touch up after that.

One things for certain, you cannot heat water above the boiling point of approximately 212 degrees, depending on altitude without pressure.  What your describing here seems to be more like a water smoker, where the heat source is below a vessel of water that helps keep the air temperature even and to a certain extent around the range of 250 or so degrees.  I have no idea if the person you question is who he said he is, but his description of what happens in a water jacket steam vessel is quite correct.

Hey Dr, What about the intense heat of the coals in the bottom of the steamer jacket. Is there going to be a buckling effect with the dbl wall air space building up pressure ?????????????????

BillyB


Hey Dr, What about the intense heat of the coals in the bottom of the steamer jacket. Is there going to be a buckling effect with the dbl wall air space building up pressure ?????????????????

No I have already built a small unit and cooked on it. It's on my back deck right now. I used it at the Art Fair here in town and you'd be shocked at how thick the walls are on these kettles. When I was using it at the art fair I got the idea about the water and knew I had to have a bigger unit. Every guy that walked by wanted to buy it. LOL

BillyB


Hey Dr, What about the intense heat of the coals in the bottom of the steamer jacket. Is there going to be a buckling effect with the dbl wall air space building up pressure ?????????????????

 
Did not think of this, can you put a smaller grate on the bottom as in the WSM does. can be had rather cheap at the Home Depot. 14--16" to keep air flow under the charcoal.

RodBangkok


One things for certain, you cannot heat water above the boiling point of approximately 212 degrees, depending on altitude without pressure.  What your describing here seems to be more like a water smoker, where the heat source is below a vessel of water that helps keep the air temperature even and to a certain extent around the range of 250 or so degrees.  I have no idea if the person you question is who he said he is, but his description of what happens in a water jacket steam vessel is quite correct.

Again pressure should not be a problem because it’s not a sealed unit. Yes it will be similar to using a water pan in a smoker but much more sophisticated, if it works LOL
 

Curbside Grill

BillyB


Hey Dr, What about the intense heat of the coals in the bottom of the steamer jacket. Is there going to be a buckling effect with the dbl wall air space building up pressure ?????????????????

 
Did not think of this, can you put a smaller grate on the bottom as in the WSM does. can be had rather cheap at the Home Depot. 14--16" to keep air flow under the charcoal.

Already did that I'll post more pictures today

Dr, looks like you have all your ducks in a row...........but then again your not serving duck.............Good Idea and nice big cooking surface area..............Bill

Was wrong but a chart to work with, have to go to work, still use a buffer.
http://www.hobbytool.com/jewelers-rouge.htm

Dr of BBQ


Jman,
Your not BSing me about Having been the Director of Manufacturing Engineering for Groen in Jackson, MS, are you, and no disrespect meant?

I want some proof and if you were, you’re a god’s send. And please don’t take that in a bad way but someone can come to a forum and announce they were most anything and the group would never know the truth. In fact just a few months ago we went through that with a guy who called himself Spud, who when caught disappeared with some debilitating illness.By the way this unit is a 1965 model did you work for Groen then? Can you get me some specs if I give you the model number?

But that said you did misunderstand or more likely I did not give a very good description of my objective. First what I cook year around is mostly the same but the winter months allow me to spend more time on projects than do the summer months. So I’ll start with the trial and error experiments after my main season slows during the winter months. I don’t need actual steam I need moisture. I want to keep the cooking area moist.

The area in the top of any smoker, or grill dries food quickly especially after reaching a temp of anything over 240 degrees. Charcoal cookers can easily get to 500 degrees and in fact the perfect steak cooking temp is between 400 and 500 degrees. Look at Ruth Chris Steak Houses’ http://www.ruthschris.com

My kettle is double walled to the halfway point as you indicated, but my cooking grate is also at the, or just below the halfway point. But it really doesn’t matter as long as the water level is above the charcoal/wood cooking level. See below.

I want to fill (maybe not fill) the lower portion with water through the old steam in line. Once the water has been put into what has become a water reservoir I’ll cap the system, just like your car radiator. Then the heat from the charcoal will heat the water trapped between the two walls. Pressure cannot become a problem because of the holes along and just above the food cooking grate.

It’s my thought that the heat from the charcoal/ wood will heat that water to a temp that is considerable higher than 212 degrees; and all it need do is produce some evaporation through the holes that will flow into the cooking area. I don’t want a bunch of steam rolling into the cooking area just moisture rich mixture of air as the water in the bottom evaporates. Too much water/moisture would be worse than too little water/moisture. After I experiment over time I’ll know how often I need to replace the water in the bottom of the cooker.

So now what do you think?

One more question, do you know of a really good product/procedure  I can use to polish the outside of my cooker, I’d rather do it myself if I can.

Yes, I was the Director Of Manufacturing Engineering for Groen from 1989 until 1993 when we decided to move back home to Kentucky.  I suppose I can send you some references that could be checked, but I think that would be a little overkill.  My background is heavy in manufacturing starting with a Tool & Die apprenticeship concurrent with getting my BS in Mecanical Engineering and an Associate degree in Applied Manufacturing Technology and have held various manufacturing management positions over a forty year career.

As far as your application, I did misunderstand how you would be using it.  When I read your post around 4 a.m. this morning, my reading comprehension might have been a little lacking. ;)

Unless the steam chamber is fully pressurized, the steam temperature will not rise above 212 degrees, no matter how hot your heat source is.  At 212 degrees the water will turn to steam and then escape out the holes you drilled.  You might see a little natural drift above 212 degrees because you will increase the pressure somewhat when the pressure within the steam chamber is somewhat restricted by the size of the holes, but it will be fairly negligible.

You will still have a problem with maintaining sufficient water levels in the void between the walls, while not overflowing it through the holes.  You could install a sight gauge that would allow you to monitor your water level so that you know when to add water, or you could install a gauge with a built-in valve that would add water as needed.  You could probably alter your sight gage so that it can also be your inlet if you're not plumbing a waterline to the kettle.

As far as cleaning, it depends on the condition of the ss.  If it's just dull, I'd recommend using Bon Ami.  You can use it with a cloth, or if you've got a car buffer, you can make that kettle shine like a new penny.  You can buy commercial ss cleaners, but I don't think they'll work as well.

Ok here is a better picture

Here you can see the top grate is 37 inches across

The top grate is about 7 inches from the top so I have room for pork shoulders or hams and even ribs in a rack.

The charcoal grate is still well above the bottom of the kettle so it will breath well.

Here is the stained area that I need to polish

Not the best photo hope you can read it

I like what you've done there.  If I remember correctly, one of the big customers for that model was the U.S, Navy, for use in their galleys.

Are you planning on casters for that hunk of metal. LOL
That is not that bad looking. I was expecting worse the way you described it.

No casters although that's not a bad idea. My thought was a trailer with a removable tongue so the tongue is not a problem when I’m using it at an event. I have a really neat table that I’m building to go with it.

Looks like that thing could eat a Webber grill for breakfast!  Can't wait to see some "action" pics.

Dr, B    ….. I think your water problem may be a little more simpler than you realize.   What I believe you will actual wind up doing is controlling the water feed into the kettle.  Rather than trying to maintain water level in the outer water jacket, let the water flash to steam as it enters the jacket. Then you can control the amount of stream at the water valve.  This way the size and number of holes (stream outlets) will not matter.  The outer jacket temp will still be about 212 deg  and thus very little to no water in the outer jacket.    ….. Simply start you coals and add a small amount of water.  When the kettle comes up to working temp, adjust the water flow for a steady steam supply. Let the water flash to steam when it hits the hot side of the kettle. Thus, no (or minimal) water level required.  The suggestion for a sight glass is good to insure too much water is not in the jacket.  ......I think a small 3/8 dia water supply line and valve is all that is needed.


Now, if you fill the outer jacket with water and try to maintain a water level thus generating steam, I believe you will have and uncontrolled amount of steam, i.e. tooo much.   If you try to control them amount of steam being ejected into the cooking area, then size and number of the holes will matter and you may get into a pressure/safety issues by restricting the steam flow as pressure will start building. And, more steam (hotter) will eject from the holes at higher pressure and faster rate.

Flashing the water to steam while maintaining basicly a dry jacket looks to be the simplest method for what you are trying to do.

Hope I expained this OK, If not ask.

Dr. B   ..... Are you still going to use a water pan above the coals?    I think as steam rises and hits the lid some may condense and drip onto the coals.  A dry pan or shield may be needed.

Doc

Two things one get over to a welding supply store an see what they have for buffer wheels for stain less.
As part of my job of the last 30 years I have done a lot of sanitary TIG welding on stainless steel  with the right wheels an  pads it wouldn’t take to long to get it shining like a new dime 
There is all so a weld cleaning acid that should take care of it as well but that stuff is very nasty  an you have to be care full not to get it on you. 

An two be care full about putting any water in the inner jacket  steam is nothing to take lightly you could end up with more than you can handle faster than you thought possible.  It not like you can shut down the heat quickly  on what you are planning
edwmax hit the high  points well.

Dr of BBQ

the Chicago unit auction was ending right in the middle of my lunch rush and I had to tell a customer he had to wait until I bought this thing on Ebay. Instead of being upset he was laughing his ass off.  

that's hilarious ... you're as bad me about ebay