Pastrami Sandwich?

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Michael Hoffman
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Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 12:57 PM
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One of the photos accompanying the report on D.T. Kirby's purports to be of a pastrami sandwich. If it really is, pastrami and lettuce, with mayonnaise on the side, I am reminded of the kosher corned beef sandwich I was served at a Holiday Inn in Charleston, West Virginia once. It was corned beef, lettuce and tomato on white bread with mayonnaise.
 
People who do not understand pastrami should not be permitted to serve it.

LindaW
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:25 PM
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Michael,
Perhaps it's a dipping sauce for the fries...I too shudder to think they put even lettuce and tomato with pastrami..let alone mayo. Then again, getting decent pastrami even up in the Albany, NY area is not an easy feat..I can only imagine what it might be like in Indiana.
Happy holidays and may all your pastrami sandwiches be served on rye with spicy brown mustard.

outolunch
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:36 PM
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Actually you can get more than decent pastrami in Albany. Albany is home to Old World Provsions which has AMAZING pastrami. Old World is the supplier to many of the delis in NYC including, I understand, Katz!

Russ Jackson
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:36 PM
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Pastrami and Corned Beef should never be served with Mayonaise...JMO...Russ

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:36 PM
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I suppose it could be a dipping sauce, but when I see lettuce on a pastrami sandwich the mayonnaise dog always raises it's ungly head for me.

And thank you for your wishes.

enginecapt
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:39 PM
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I agree. No lettuce, no tomato, no mayo.

May I put raw onion on mine, Mr. Hoffman?

DawnT
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:44 PM
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Goodness, that's an abomination! Seeded Rye or in a pinch unseeded is the only other acceptable bread choice. The only green thing that should be on that plate is perhaps a Kosher dill pickle spear. Maybe a monkey dish of cole slaw or ny style potato salad on the side. Guess these people wouldn't understand  serving tubs of dill pickles or sauerkraut on the table as appetizers either.
To me this is just as bad as screwing up a Cuban sandwich!

Oh, let me guess. They use the finest pastrami from Jenni-o or Butterball...right?  Oscar Mayer?

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 1:50 PM
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enginecapt


I agree. No lettuce, no tomato, no mayo.

May I put raw onion on mine, Mr. Hoffman?


You certainly may.

ScreamingChicken
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 2:10 PM
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DawnT


Oh, let me guess. They use the finest pastrami from Jenni-o or Butterball...right?  Oscar Mayer?


Given that Kirby's serves Vienna Beef hot dogs it's not a stretch to think that the pastrami might also be a VB product.
 
You could always call 765-429-6666‎ and ask.  Note that long distance charges may apply.  And then you wouldn't have to guess...you'd know!!!
 
Brad

MiamiDon
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 2:11 PM
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That certainly is not the traditional jewish-style presentation.
 
But then, I love grilled pastrami with grilled onions and melted swiss subs.

the ancient mariner
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 2:43 PM
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With a Dr Brown's Cel-Ray, of course. 
But, Mayonaisse never. 
Tomatoes, who ever heard of a tomato
on pastrami-----God forbid. 

Russ Jackson
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 2:56 PM
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Jewish Rye, Pastrami, Mustard and nothing else. I would not even toast or grill the bread. The addition of grilled onions would be better served atop the potatoe salad or on the side. Cold butter might work but I have never tried it on Pastrami but it works with hard salami and mustard on Jewish Rye...Russ

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 3:14 PM
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If you want to get some pretty darned good rye try Block's Bagels on East Broad Street.
 
Unfortunately, the Bexly Kosher market shut down last year, and the only place you can buy any Kosher stuff is at the Kroger on East Broad Street. Their pastrami and corned beef are both first cut, only.
<message edited by Michael Hoffman on Wed, 12/23/09 3:17 PM>

Greymo
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 3:24 PM
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There are many amazing things about this  "all wrong" sandwich.  One that no one has mentioned is the fact that the bread slices are so thick  (and look like cinnamon swirl  to me) and there is twice as much bread as there is meat.............wow!   (I did notice what appears to be a sliver of a dill pickle slice on the left side of sandwich   but I may be wrong.

This sandwitch certainly makes me appreciate, all the more, the wonderful Jewish deli that we have in Baltimore.  I would love to be going there right now.

MiamiDon
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 3:36 PM
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That's pumpernickel/rye marble bread, Greymo.  I just saw some in the supermarket a half hour ago.  I almost bought some to go with some corned beef.

mar52
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 3:37 PM
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I really like the Picasso Bread.  Guess you have a stormy, stormy night after eating that sandwich.

Greymo
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 3:40 PM
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MiamiDon


That's pumpernickel/rye marble bread, Greymo.  I just saw some in the supermarket a half hour ago.  I almost bought some to go with some corned beef.


I know that is what it is  but doesn't look  like what I see around here.  Incidentally,  I was buying some rye bread this am  and the baker told me that the  marble rye is their best seller for the rye breads that they sell!

LindaW
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 4:05 PM
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Out to Lunch...yes we do have Olde World Provisions, however, they are not open on weekends, nor can you just go there to get a sandwich,  I believe during the week. So for us poor working stiffs, we are SOL...Gershon's in Schenectady is about the only decent place left...and they are a far cry from the quality of deli I grew up with.

acer2x
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 4:11 PM
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Michael's story reminds me of the story I posted before when I was behind a tourista in line at Hershel's Deli in the Reading Terminal Market in Philly. He ordered a corned beef with lettuce and tomato and mayo on wheat bread. The counterman asked him, "Are you sure about that?" I could only laugh.

the grillman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 5:12 PM
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Mayo on pastrami is possibly the only thing worse than ketchup on a hot dog.

Russ Jackson
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 5:35 PM
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Miracle Whip on Pastrami would be even worse. If somebody can top that I want to know...Russ
 
You would most definitely go to Hell if you did that!
<message edited by Russ Jackson on Wed, 12/23/09 5:37 PM>

Foodosaurus
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 6:04 PM
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Oh no.... everything always comes back to ketchup on a hot dog.  Lets try to keep this to one travesty at at time!

EatingTheRoad
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 7:00 PM
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acer2x

He ordered a corned beef with lettuce and tomato and mayo on wheat bread. The counterman asked him, "Are you sure about that?" I could only laugh.


Haha....I love that



Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 7:11 PM
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EatingTheRoad


acer2x

He ordered a corned beef with lettuce and tomato and mayo on wheat bread. The counterman asked him, "Are you sure about that?" I could only laugh.


Haha....I love that

So, when you said about this restaurant, "Steve, great write-up and terrific photos!" And, "I love that Marble Rye...I would definably (sic) get me some of that(,)" what you really meant was, um -- Gee what was it that you meant?

boilermaker
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 7:30 PM
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LOL I didn't realize this review would stir up so much controversy.
 
Yes, the pastrami sandwich as served on the menu does have mayo, mustard, lettuice, onions, tomatoes, pickles and cheese. What I usually order is just mustard and pickles. I like my bread toasted. So I've sinned :p It may not hold up to a pastrami from NY or NJ, but tastes are a bit different here.
 
Remember, this is central Indiana. Not much Jewish influence here (or any ethnic). Until hispanics started moving out here 10 years ago, the best Mexican was usually Taco Bell.

Tony Bad
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 8:07 PM
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boilermaker


LOL I didn't realize this review would stir up so much controversy.
 
Yes, the pastrami sandwich as served on the menu does have mayo, mustard, lettuice, onions, tomatoes, pickles and cheese. What I usually order is just mustard and pickles. I like my bread toasted. So I've sinned :p It may not hold up to a pastrami from NY or NJ, but tastes are a bit different here.
 
Remember, this is central Indiana. Not much Jewish influence here (or any ethnic). Until hispanics started moving out here 10 years ago, the best Mexican was usually Taco Bell.
 


The "way it is supposed to be" is the way you like it. I have had many interesting and enjoyable meals that were non-traditional versions of things I have had just one way before. Yeah, some have been misses, but some have also been hits. Once down in TX someone got us lunch and brought me back a pastrami on sourdough bread sandwich that seemed to have an oil/vinegar dressing on it. It was good!


Thanks for a good review of an interesting looking place.



ces1948
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 8:33 PM
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I'm not familiar with the term "first cut" in reference to Pastrami or corned beef. What does that mean?

EatingTheRoad
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 8:41 PM
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Michael Hoffman


EatingTheRoad


acer2x

He ordered a corned beef with lettuce and tomato and mayo on wheat bread. The counterman asked him, "Are you sure about that?" I could only laugh.


Haha....I love that

So, when you said about this restaurant, "Steve, great write-up and terrific photos!" And, "I love that Marble Rye...I would definably (sic) get me some of that(,)" what you really meant was, um -- Gee what was it that you meant?


Umm...are we being redundant again Michael Hoffman? I believe what I meant was what I said "Steve, great write-up and terrific photos!" and "I love that Marble Rye...I would definably get me some of that." Is there something contradictory in what I've said.

Can I ask you why you're tying to incite something? I was being encouraging of his post. Why must you so often be negative and bring a damper to things? I would much rather bring praise to an individuals review rather than try to nitpick and downgrade it. If you notice, and omitted, I asked for further clarification from him. Should I have said something like "your review stinks...that's not a pastrami sandwich....why did you write this?" ...or should I have done it more underhandedly somehow? I like more than so fault me if you must but I know which of those would be more well received by others. Good day sir.....oh, and Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas, I hope you spend it with family and friends and receive everything you've asked for whether that be a present, a smile or a full belly.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 8:49 PM
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What you should have done, if you cared about something called integrity, was to be honest. By the way, nice use of a redundancy.

EatingTheRoad
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 9:17 PM
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Since when is one's integrity lowered by finding plus points in something rather than knocking it? By your math I must then be negative for it to be honest? I did enjoy the write-up and I did enjoy the photos.

I'm glad it's not you judging at the Pearly Gates...we'd all be in trouble.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 9:27 PM
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Hey, if you find "points" in a pastrami sandwich with lettuce, tomato, onions and mayonnaise, then integrity is not the problem.

EatingTheRoad
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 9:46 PM
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Okay Michael...okay...

the grillman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 9:56 PM
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ces1948


I'm not familiar with the term "first cut" in reference to Pastrami or corned beef. What does that mean?


A beef brisket, which corned beef and often pastrami, are made of, is composed of two major muscles.  The first cut, is the leaner, flatter cut of the brisket....it slices more evenly, and usually has a thin layer of fat on one side.  Once that thin layer of fat is separated, the lean meat is obvious.  It's most presentable, and among many people, the most desirable, part of the brisket.  I like it myself, most of the time.

The point cut is the other muscle part of the brisket, it is fattier, has more marbling, and doesn't slice as well.  You also can't de-fat it by trimming, as it has streaks of fat running through it.  While some prefer the flat cut, the point cut is richer in flavor, due to the fat content.  Occasionally, I enjoy this portion of the meat, too.  To me, the ideal sandwich has some of each.

You will often order a corned beef sandwich as lean (from the flat cut), or juicy (read, fattier) from the point cut.  Many delis charge a couple bucks extra for lean.

An analogy would be white meat vs dark meat chicken.   Some people prefer only one vs. the other.  Some don't care.  Certainly the white meat is leaner; but many will prefer the dark, due to it's richer flavor. 




sk bob
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 10:07 PM
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Boilermaker, don't let these crotchity old farts scare youoff.
 Good job.

1bbqboy
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 10:12 PM
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Palace Cafe- Ashland
<message edited by bill voss on Wed, 01/20/10 8:14 PM>

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 12/23/09 10:24 PM
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Excellent explanation of first cut.

BillyB
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/20/10 6:29 PM
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http://www.kennyandzukes....menu_feb09-takeout.pdf   I'm going to stop here in March, Look at the PLT in the "Our Pastrami" part of the menu..MH will love it.....I'm thinking hot Pastrami on Rye and a Knish, maybe a small portion of Chopped chicken liver................Billyb

1bbqboy
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/20/10 8:04 PM
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http://www.savethedeli.com/2009/05/21/kenny-and-zukes-a-visit/
<message edited by bill voss on Wed, 01/20/10 8:06 PM>

BillyB
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/20/10 8:12 PM
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I got the idea from you Bill..............Billyb

1bbqboy
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/20/10 8:19 PM
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BillyB


I got the idea from you Bill..............Billyb


:)
I didn't realize Ellen's buddy had been there, so I thought I'd post a pic of chef ken from his report.

1bbqboy
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/27/10 7:41 PM
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hey billy, (and ellen, if you want to fly crosscountry on short notice),
 
http://www.portlandfood.org/index.php?showtopic=10266&hl=
 
Come meet David Sax, author of "Save the Deli", while you stuff yourself on pastrami, bagels, and other nosh at Kenny & Zuke's on Tuesday, February 2nd at 6pm. David spotlighted Kenny & Zuke's in Gourmet Magazine as one of two shops that represent the future of delicatessen. He also named Kenny & Zuke's as one of the top 10 delicatessens in North America.

David set out on a journey across the United States and around the world in search of authentic delicatessen, cataloging the best dishes and quickly disappearing specialties. He knows pastrami. He knows bagels. He knows chopped liver. Learn about David's favorite spots, his favorite dishes, tell him about yours, listen to him tell stories about the characters who have been slicing pastrami by hand for 30 years, whose grandparents invented the foods you love. And eat.

Contact Kenny & Zuke's to sign up. $15, food & drink included. 503.222.DELI or info@kennyandzukes.com. Signed copies of the book will be available at the event.

plb
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/27/10 9:10 PM
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My favorite was from a place called Boston Deli in downtown L.A. in the mid 80's.  It came on an onion roll with Russian (or Thousand Island) dressing and cole slaw in the sandwich.  I just tried a search on Boston Deli and there was nothing having to do with L.A.  But that's the way I always order Pastrami, even in NYC.

Hey Boilermaker, there is a lot of Jewish influence in Indy.  Get thee to Shapiro's.

plb (Boilermaker '71) 

boilermaker
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/27/10 9:32 PM
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plb


My favorite was from a place called Boston Deli in downtown L.A. in the mid 80's.  It came on an onion roll with Russian (or Thousand Island) dressing and cole slaw in the sandwich.  I just tried a search on Boston Deli and there was nothing having to do with L.A.  But that's the way I always order Pastrami, even in NYC.

Hey Boilermaker, there is a lot of Jewish influence in Indy.  Get thee to Shapiro's.

plb (Boilermaker '71) 


Had lunch there a couple of weeks ago. Kinda pricy but droolingly good. Thanks plb!

Twinwillow
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 01/27/10 11:46 PM
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stlouisguy


Mayo on pastrami is possibly the only thing worse than ketchup on a hot dog.
 

Hey! How about ketchup on a pastrami sandwich? 



ellen4641
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Thu, 01/28/10 12:37 AM
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bill voss


hey billy, (and ellen, if you want to fly crosscountry on short notice),

http://www.portlandfood.org/index.php?showtopic=10266&hl=

Come meet David Sax, author of "Save the Deli", while you stuff yourself on pastrami, bagels, and other nosh at Kenny & Zuke's on Tuesday, February 2nd at 6pm. David spotlighted Kenny & Zuke's in Gourmet Magazine as one of two shops that represent the future of delicatessen.


Hey, BILL VOSS,  thanks so much for thinking of me !!
I've already had the utmost pleasure meeting David Sax during his book signing tour , at his Philly stop in Nov...
I even turned it into a Roadfood trip report.....   it's part of my "PASTRAMI IN PHILLY" report ....
 
I've always wanted to try Kenny & Zukes, though!!  That pic of all those pastrami's looks awesome !
This weekend I'm already going to be tied up with a PASTRAMI OUTING in NYC.... !!!
I am "MEATING UP" with THE Teddy ...........who calls himself "the pastrami king"...
He writes a real good pastrami  blog ,  http://www.pastramiblog.blogspot.com/..... he's a nice 25 year old Polish kid who just LOVES his pastrami !  It was funny, cause once someone gave him heat on his blog for using russian dressing on his pastrami ...
and Teddy said "Hey, I'm Polish, and I don't follow any Kosher dietary laws"...
 
Stay tuned for my  probable Roadfood trip report on here entitled "The pastrami queen meats up with the pastrami king" !!!
 
Thanks again, Bill Voss for thinking of me !!

1bbqboy
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Tue, 02/2/10 11:39 AM
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http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2010/02/small_bites_a_sparkling_riesli.html
 
Christopher FarberDavid Sax3 QUESTIONS

A short chat about what's cooking

Freelance journalist David Sax grew up loving Yitz' Deli in his hometown of Toronto, and these days travels the globe reporting stories for publications such as New York Magazine, Vanity Fair and GQ. While on the road, he's tasted a world's worth of pastrami and corned beef. He's in Portland today, Feb. 2, promoting a new book focused on the challenges that delicatessens face.

Q: You spent the past few years searching for the world's great Jewish delicatessens. From the title of your book -- "Save the Deli" -- it sounds like you're troubled by what you found. How is the great deli tradition being threatened?

A: Delis have declined in great numbers over the past several decades, from thousands to a few hundred, and the threat comes on several fronts: First, it's economically difficult to run Jewish delis compared with other restaurants. It requires skilled staff who can work with specialty foods that are deceptively troublesome to prepare and serve. Despite the fact that they practically exist to serve them, corned beef and pastrami sandwiches are the least profitable items for delis to sell. Second, there's a cultural drain of Jews away from Jewish delicatessens. Unlike Chinese restaurants or taquerias, there simply aren't any new Jewish immigrants from Poland or Romania coming over to open up delis ... and they haven't been coming since the Nazis wiped out that whole world. With each generation that comes of age in America, fewer Jews are involved in delis. That dilutes the tradition. Toss in competition from cheap sandwich chains like Subway, and the fear over fat and salt, and it's a perfect storm.

Q: Of all the places you visited, Portland's own Kenny & Zuke's Delicatessen stood out. It's a very new business that's not steeped in the history of places like New York's Katz's Deli, which has been around since the 1880s. What made a place that's only been open a couple of years so special?

A: Kenny & Zuke's didn't start out with any grand ideas. It was two guys who made pastrami as an experiment and sold it at a farmers market. But they built everything with a focus on the quality of the food foremost, and never tried to replicate some version of the "New York" deli, with taxicab murals and other shtick. They began from scratch, baking the bread and bagels in-house, curing the lox, smoking the pastrami, baking the rugelach, and the flavors really stood out because of that. They're not reinventing Jewish delicatessen in any radical way. They're simply doing it right, with a respect for the tradition but without indulging in the shticky nostalgia that too many delicatessens focus their energy on.

Q: Think of this as the delicatessen equivalent to the eternal "boxers or briefs" question: Pastrami or corned beef, and why?

A: Just bread, because I go commando.

David Sax speaks at 6 p.m. today, Feb. 2, at Kenny & Zuke's Delicatessen, 1038 S.W. Stark St.; $15, including food and drink; reservations at 503-222-3354 or info@kennyandzukes.com. Signed copies of "Save the Deli" (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, $24, 336 pages) will be available at the event.

-- Grant Butler

1bbqboy
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ScreenBear
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Wed, 02/3/10 6:36 PM
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As the guy next door to me when I was little in Newark, N.J. used to say, "Boyesz, boyesz, don't knock so hard the ball against the wall."

   The Bear

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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Thu, 02/4/10 12:32 PM
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Years ago, I was working as an intern at a newspaper; a bunch of us walked to a local deli and ordered sandwiches to take to the park. We all ordered more or less the same -- pastrami or corned beef, rye, brown mustard, Dr. Brown's Cream Soda or Cel-Ray. Then the office clerk, a girl barely out of high school, who had "former cheerleader" written all over her, struggled with her order, since she'd obviously never been to such a place. "Um, corned beef, uh, on ... Wonder Bread with American cheese and Miracle Whip?"

One of our number, the archetypal genuine Nice Jewish Girl from Brooklyn, scowled and blurted out, "Oy. How goyische!"

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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Thu, 02/4/10 12:50 PM
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I remember the MAD magazine parody of the old TV show "Bridget Loves Bernie" which was about a mixed-marriage couple (Bridget--Catholic and Bernie--Jewish). Bridget's brother (a priest) is at Bernie's family's deli and the waiter asks "what'll it be, Father?". The priest replies "I'll have a corned beef sandwich on date-nut bread with mayonnaise and a glass of milk", so the waiter turns to the kitchen and yells "one #6 Gentile with the works".
<message edited by Jamie638 on Thu, 02/4/10 1:39 PM>

jmckee
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Re:Pastrami Sandwich? - Fri, 02/5/10 11:18 AM
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Jamie638


I remember the MAD magazine parody of the old TV show "Bridget Loves Bernie" which was about a mixed-marriage couple (Bridget--Catholic and Bernie--Jewish). Bridget's brother (a priest) is at Bernie's family's deli and the waiter asks "what'll it be, Father?". The priest replies "I'll have a corned beef sandwich on date-nut bread with mayonnaise and a glass of milk", so the waiter turns to the kitchen and yells "one #6 Gentile with the works".


Oh, I'm going to look that up this weekend. My wife and son, last year for my birthday, gave me "Absolutely MAD," the complete 600 issue output of the magazine to that point on DVD-ROM.