Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog

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hkrall
Junior Burger
2010/03/24 16:03:51
Citizens Bank Park (Phillies stadium) is offering up 3 hot dog variations as contenders for the team/stadium's new signature hot dog. 

•South Philly Hot Dog

all beef dog / broccoli rabe / sharp provolone / crusty italian roll

Olde Philadelphia Hot Dog

all beef dog / "Amish" pepper hash / pickle / poppy seed roll

• Summer Hot Dog

all beef dog / cucumbers / pickled onion salsa / ancho chili sauce / pretzel roll

---- 

 can't post the link but if you want to read more, just google "philly's new signature hot dog"

My vote goes to the Olde Philadelphia, although maybe with a Martin's potato Roll to amp up the Pennsylvania Dutch theme? Surprised not to see any pork roll or cheese wiz going on, but I guess pork roll is more Jersey and Philadelphia is trying to get past Wiz. Pretzel roll is a cool idea. Some breakfast & lunch joints here you can get sandwiches (pork roll & cheese, etc) on a soft pretzel. It's awesome. 







post edited by hkrall - 2010/03/24 16:07:15
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 17:05:12
Hawk: I'm with you on the Olde Philadelphia and would love to see them use a Martin's Potato Roll. I'm voting for the Olde Philadelphia.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 17:17:21
Out of the three I would go with the Olde Philadelphia also. Simple, and I think I would like the pepper hash. I wouldn't like the other 2 dogs.

Does anyone know where the beef dog is from? To me that's more important than what's put on it. I've had the Phillies frank in the past at the Vet and it was horrible. Hatfield beef/pork is just a poor dog with a weird spicing. I've also had the Phillies beef frank from Hatfield, and it too isn't good.

Now if the beef dog is a Dietz and Watson from Philly, then you've got a quality dog.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 17:38:00
I would rather not get past the Cheez Whiz vs. eating provolone or broccoli rabe on a hot dog.

I would (if only) vote for...

Dietz & Watson with Cheez Whiz mustard (ohhh this is where it gets hard) some sort of  simple hot pepper relish on a pretzel roll.
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 17:57:27
I'd go with an Old Philly BUT switch the Roll from Poppy Seed to Pretzel---THEN you'd have a true Philly Dog!
hkrall
Junior Burger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 18:36:01
John I think the stadium has a contract with Hatfield so I assume that's what it is. 

In a dream world they would use natural casing franks made by Illg's meats or the Amish.. 

The Poppy Seed roll kind of makes sense as a nod to Levis' which was Philly's most well known hot dog place for years and maybe used poppy seed rolls since they were sort of kosher-style (I'm too young to remember details)
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 18:42:26
Give a nod to Levis' by serving it with a Champ Cherry!!!

Levis' Champ Cherry  soda one of a kind cherry-champagne taste. The Phillies win their first championship in 1950 and customers are calling the magic elixir "Champ Cherry" in honor of the win.


That's marketing.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2010/03/24 19:22:21
Bossa Nova
Hamburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 19:51:34
The Hatfield natural casing deli style beef hot dogs are pretty good.  The "deli style" is a different recipe from their regular beef hot dogs.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 20:09:10
Yes. The New York deli style dog is what we had at the Rahway Grill on the 6th Annual New Jersey Hot Dog Tour. A great dog and so much better than the other dogs Hatfield makes. They're not even sold in PA.
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 20:30:57
hkrall

John I think the stadium has a contract with Hatfield so I assume that's what it is. 

In a dream world they would use natural casing franks made by Illg's meats or the Amish.. 

The Poppy Seed roll kind of makes sense as a nod to Levis' which was Philly's most well known hot dog place for years and maybe used poppy seed rolls since they were sort of kosher-style (I'm too young to remember details)




I'm old enough to remember Levis' and they did not use poppy seed rolls. Plain old frankfurter rolls. I loved Levis' combo (fishcake and dog) and I do like Illg's. Lenny's has had a good pepper hash.
LeadBelly
Hamburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 20:54:00
Yeah, can't remember poppy seed rolls at Levis'. But remember for a long while there were two competing Levis' in the same block before South Street; so maybe the one that went out of business first used a poppy seed roll. But I always went into the original Levis which did not. Combo with Champ Cherry from the old fountain. That was good. 
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 22:04:26
WCAU-TV Philadelphia also ran a story about the press conference put on by the Phillies. It includes video discussing the "Signature Hot Dog":
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/around-town/food-drink/Phillies-Fans-Pick-a-Favorite-Dog-88845622.html

Hatfield's web site has for some time stated that their Phillies hot dogs are served at the ball park. Some media photos of the choices for the signature hot dog clearly show a small skinless dog.

As the WCAU video clearly shows, the Phillies threw a press conference and fed the media free ball park food. Maybe that is why this story about a skinless hot dog got onto the AP wire.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/24 22:39:35
johnnymolson
Hamburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 02:30:18
I think the Olde Philadelphia dog would taste best.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 06:19:31
David_NYC

WCAU-TV Philadelphia also ran a story about the press conference put on by the Phillies. It includes video discussing the "Signature Hot Dog":
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/around-town/food-drink/Phillies-Fans-Pick-a-Favorite-Dog-88845622.html

Hatfield's web site has for some time stated that their Phillies hot dogs are served at the ball park. Some media photos of the choices for the signature hot dog clearly show a small skinless dog.

As the WCAU video clearly shows, the Phillies threw a press conference and fed the media free ball park food. Maybe that is why this story about a skinless hot dog got onto the AP wire.

 
So what we probably have here is a skinless, mediocre dog that is to be gussied up with some topping combinations. As I've stated many times, if you don't start with a good dog, it doesn't matter what you do to it. It will probably be the same frank that the Phillies promote on dollar dog night. That would be too bad especially since the Yankees and Mets have both upgraded their franks in recent years.  So have the Red Sox and Twins. Probably other teams as well.
 
For years the Red Sox served a poor quality frank as their "Fenway Frank". A year ago they switched to a quality dog made by Kayem.
 
As a Mets fan, I was subjected to years of Kahn's, Armour, and Ballpark. I stopped eating hot dogs at the games. I think the Yankees also used a cheap frank. Then a few years ago I noticed Nathan's and Hebrew National at both stadiums. The Mets also added a kosher Abele's & Heymann's frank. And since beer goes well with hot dogs, many ballparks began offering quality microbrews. Which would be the equivalent of a good regional frank or one from a butcher shop.
 
Philly should follow suit. I'd rather have a plain, steamed Hebrew National than a Hatfield (non N.Y. deli style) frank with some good or unique toppings. Better yet, get a quality dog, then top it with the Amish pepper hash. I know good dogs can be found in Philly. It would be nice to have a good hot dog with my beer rather than a $10.00 or $12.00 cheesesteak.

leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 06:47:16
Amish pepper hash....YES!!!!!!!
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 08:07:34
John Fox

David_NYC

WCAU-TV Philadelphia also ran a story about the press conference put on by the Phillies. It includes video discussing the "Signature Hot Dog":
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/around-town/food-drink/Phillies-Fans-Pick-a-Favorite-Dog-88845622.html

Hatfield's web site has for some time stated that their Phillies hot dogs are served at the ball park. Some media photos of the choices for the signature hot dog clearly show a small skinless dog.

As the WCAU video clearly shows, the Phillies threw a press conference and fed the media free ball park food. Maybe that is why this story about a skinless hot dog got onto the AP wire.

 
So what we probably have here is a skinless, mediocre dog that is to be gussied up with some topping combinations. As I've stated many times, if you don't start with a good dog, it doesn't matter what you do to it. It will probably be the same frank that the Phillies promote on dollar dog night. That would be too bad especially since the Yankees and Mets have both upgraded their franks in recent years.  So have the Red Sox and Twins. Probably other teams as well.
 
For years the Red Sox served a poor quality frank as their "Fenway Frank". A year ago they switched to a quality dog made by Kayem.
 
As a Mets fan, I was subjected to years of Kahn's, Armour, and Ballpark. I stopped eating hot dogs at the games. I think the Yankees also used a cheap frank. Then a few years ago I noticed Nathan's and Hebrew National at both stadiums. The Mets also added a kosher Abele's & Heymann's frank. And since beer goes well with hot dogs, many ballparks began offering quality microbrews. Which would be the equivalent of a good regional frank or one from a butcher shop.
 
Philly should follow suit. I'd rather have a plain, steamed Hebrew National than a Hatfield (non N.Y. deli style) frank with some good or unique toppings. Better yet, get a quality dog, then top it with the Amish pepper hash. I know good dogs can be found in Philly. It would be nice to have a good hot dog with my beer rather than a $10.00 or $12.00 cheesesteak.



John: As usual, you're right on the money. I don't eat the hot dogs at Citizens Bank Park (I won't eat the cheesesteaks there either but, that's another story). I've wished for a Hebrew National frank ever since the park opened. Seemingly, the thinking is "let's serve any old dog, they'll buy it." 
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 08:52:52
I just found another humorous story and video by a Philadelphia-area editor of Montgomery Newspapers:
http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2010/03/24/columns/doc4baa249b57300644581487.txt

In the video, the executive chef, Glenn Richmond, describes the hot dog as "a grilled all beef Hatfield". Since he didn't say "Phillies", there is a chance they are using another one of Hatfield's all-beef hot dogs. I would certainly hope he did as his counterparts did at other ball parks and get the best hot dog made by Hatfield. But John is probably right, that their regular dog is just being spiffed up a bit.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 09:34:07
It must be a Hatfield exclusive to  Phillies/Aramark deal.

The CP catering packages that date back to 2008 list Hatfield all beef jumbo franks. Hatfield does not mass market jumbo all beef franks.


http://www.aramarksports.com/citizensbankpark/pdfs/catering_menus/Pre_Game_Areas.pdf


http://www.hatfieldqualitymeats.com/Products/ProductCategory.aspx?ProductCategoryID=7

I am pretty sure there would be an internal memo that instructs anyone who is in charge of giving descriptions not to say Phillies or Hatfield Phillies (or just Hatfield jumbos)...since some Hatfield Phillies and any Hatfield jumbo product (at  the Supermarket level) are an all meat product.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2010/03/25 10:17:07
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 13:34:37
While dogs made to a certain size may be exclusive to a client, store, restaurant, etc. more often than not they are made to the same recipe. I've spoken to distributors as well as people who work for companies producing hot dogs. Empire National (not the Empire that makes turkeys or chickens) has one recipe. But they make different sizes and some with a collagen casing. They made a special dog for Tabatchnik's in Union that was 1/3 lb and had a casing. When Tabatchnik's closed, Empire discontinued this dog. But it was the same recipe as their others.

A distributor told me that the better beef dog from Hatfield is only made for the New York/New Jersey market to compete with Sabrett. I know of 4 recipes produced by Hatfield. This one (excellent), an all beef (Phillies frank, poor quality) a beef/pork (also was sold at the Vet; pretty bad), and a beef and pork frank with turkey and/or chicken.I won't even try this one.

I would bet that the beef dog to be served at Citizen Bank Park, while perhaps being a different size, and not sold retail, is the same recipe mediocre dog that has been sold there and in the supermarkets. If so, then to use this dog and dress it up with fancy toppings while creating a marketing blitz, to me is like putting lipstick on a pig.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 13:48:17
Yes in the foodservice end of Hatfield they offer a great deal of custom sizing options...without mentioning anything about formula. If anyone could or would have say it would be Aramark (based in Philadelphia) but chances are it is just size.

You will ALWAYS see or hear Hatfield written or mentioned when it is about Phillies and hot dogs They don't ever stress Hatfield in regard to sausage (even though it is supplied by Hatfield) and funny enough there is a Hatfield Grill that serves chicken bites...when there really is no connection to Hatfield products and chicken.

In the reverse sense it is good for Hatfield to simply mention Phillies hot dogs as served at Phillies games...to the Supermarket customers.
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 13:53:57
John Fox

David_NYC

WCAU-TV Philadelphia also ran a story about the press conference put on by the Phillies. It includes video discussing the "Signature Hot Dog":
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/around-town/food-drink/Phillies-Fans-Pick-a-Favorite-Dog-88845622.html

Hatfield's web site has for some time stated that their Phillies hot dogs are served at the ball park. Some media photos of the choices for the signature hot dog clearly show a small skinless dog.

As the WCAU video clearly shows, the Phillies threw a press conference and fed the media free ball park food. Maybe that is why this story about a skinless hot dog got onto the AP wire.

 
So what we probably have here is a skinless, mediocre dog that is to be gussied up with some topping combinations. As I've stated many times, if you don't start with a good dog, it doesn't matter what you do to it. It will probably be the same frank that the Phillies promote on dollar dog night. That would be too bad especially since the Yankees and Mets have both upgraded their franks in recent years.  So have the Red Sox and Twins. Probably other teams as well.
 
For years the Red Sox served a poor quality frank as their "Fenway Frank". A year ago they switched to a quality dog made by Kayem.
 
As a Mets fan, I was subjected to years of Kahn's, Armour, and Ballpark. I stopped eating hot dogs at the games. I think the Yankees also used a cheap frank. Then a few years ago I noticed Nathan's and Hebrew National at both stadiums. The Mets also added a kosher Abele's & Heymann's frank. And since beer goes well with hot dogs, many ballparks began offering quality microbrews. Which would be the equivalent of a good regional frank or one from a butcher shop.
 
Philly should follow suit. I'd rather have a plain, steamed Hebrew National than a Hatfield (non N.Y. deli style) frank with some good or unique toppings. Better yet, get a quality dog, then top it with the Amish pepper hash. I know good dogs can be found in Philly. It would be nice to have a good hot dog with my beer rather than a $10.00 or $12.00 cheesesteak.

 
I'm sure there's someone in the Philly's organization who is the Liaison Person to the Concessionaire. If a Roadfooder in Phlly could get their name and contact info, we could start a write-in or email campaign to get a quality Dog for our fellow brethern in Philly. I'm sure Aramark or whomever has a contract with Hatfield or whomever, but contracts can be revised or replaced.
 
Just send them the above Epistle of St. John of NJ and that should do it!
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 15:22:12
Or better yet, just convince Citizens Bank Park to demand their supplier (Aramark/Hatfield) to provide them with the premium frank made by Hatfield and available to hot dog establishments in Jersey. I've bought them at Restaurant Depot.

Rahway Grill and Curbside Cafe are 2 popular places that serve this frank. It's boiled at Curbside and griddled at the Rahway Grill. It was the overwhelming choice as the favorite dog on the 6th Anuual New Jersey Hot Dog Tour last September when we visited the Rahway Grill. I'm sure it would be a big hit at Phillies games.
post edited by John Fox - 2010/03/25 15:25:22
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 15:42:50
Unfortunately, I don't think we have a chance in hell of convincing the folks at CBP or at Aramark of changing to or adding the premium Hatfield product. I've been amazed at the reports of Citizens Bank Park having superior ballpark food. Yes, The Schmitter sandwich is unique and not to be missed, and the crab fries from Chickie's and Pete's is a good item but, the hot dogs are mediocre at best. 

And for those people who are eating cheesesteaks for the first time, it's convenient to have Tony Luke's there if you like standing in line for half an inning.

The Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, and Orioles all have better food selections in their parks.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 15:52:57
They won best MLB  ballpark food in 2007 and best vegetarian something or other last year.

The whole select the toppings to cover thing is a sign of where their thoughts are about going in another direction. Sales may be down a tad but just switch the pillows and keep the sofa. Don't know if it is a caught between the s**t and tide situation about switching up the hot dog that they have to compete with Sabrett in NJ...when Hatfield has and will be selling the hell out of their Supermarket product as Phillies in Philly.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2010/03/25 16:03:17
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 16:07:06
From "The Things I Didn't Realize" Dept.
I'd didn't realize that the Dodgers didn't have "Dodger Dogs" when they were in Brooklyn! " />
They only started selling them after moving to LA,CA.
I didn't realize that Dodger Dogs are made for them by Farmer Johns.

Maybe Farmer Johns can create a quality dog for the Phillies???????
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 19:52:14
Although I've never had one, I hear from friends who visit LA that the Dodger Dog is lousy.

I know we're talking about a stadium here, but a disturbing trend in hot dog establishments the last few years has been the emphasis on the stuff put on a hot dog rather than the actual frankfurter itself. Raspberry/wasabi/cream cheese dogs don't cut it with me. Gus Poulos and Nathan Handwerker would be turning over in their graves if Papaya King and Nathan's offered crap like that which appeals to the hip and trendy.

If someone opening a hot dog restaurant wants to be different, they should seek out a quality dog from a small butcher shop or regional producer that isn't known by many. Or else stick to the tried and true brands and prepare them well.
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:11:52
I found a separate website for Hatfield food service products. Here is the page for Beef Franks (they have another for all meat franks):
http://www.hatfieldqualitymeatsfoodservice.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?ProductCategoryID=14
Note the footnote for their Deluxe food service hot dogs: "Deluxe Grill Franks use superior raw materials and additional seasonings."
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:12:14
John Fox

Although I've never had one, I hear from friends who visit LA that the Dodger Dog is lousy.

I know we're talking about a stadium here, but a disturbing trend in hot dog establishments the last few years has been the emphasis on the stuff put on a hot dog rather than the actual frankfurter itself. Raspberry/wasabi/cream cheese dogs don't cut it with me. Gus Poulos and Nathan Handwerker would be turning over in their graves if Papaya King and Nathan's offered crap like that which appeals to the hip and trendy.

If someone opening a hot dog restaurant wants to be different, they should seek out a quality dog from a small butcher shop or regional producer that isn't known by many. Or else stick to the tried and true brands and prepare them well.


I bought a box of them a while back from a chain called Smart & Final. They're a Regional Costco/Sams Club wannabe without needing to buy a membership card. The Dogs are about 10" long and I'm guessing close to a 1/2 pound. They weren't outstanding but they weren't too bad. Just an average Dog!
Do you have Farmer John's Products available in NJ?
post edited by Foodbme - 2010/03/25 21:14:58
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:13:48
No, they don't reach this far east. FJ is owned by Hormel.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/03/25 21:26:31
David_NYC

I found a separate website for Hatfield food service products. Here is the page for Beef Franks (they have another for all meat franks):
http://www.hatfieldqualitymeatsfoodservice.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?ProductCategoryID=14
Note the footnote for their Deluxe food service hot dogs: "Deluxe Grill Franks use superior raw materials and additional seasonings."


Damn! The jig would be up if allowed to view the info without a log in! The smoking gun is corn syrup in the Hatfield  stable.

Wardynski in Buffalo also designates the * for specially made for roller grills.

acer2x
Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 09:10:30
And the winner is

http://www.philly.com/philly/restaurants/90112202.html

Will it be a home run or a strike out?
MiamiDon
Filet Mignon
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 09:47:38
The weiner:
 
SOUTH PHILLY DOG WITH BROCCOLI RABE


CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 10:07:10
I didn't vote for it. No sense complaining. Just won't eat it. Will go with my standby favorite Citizens Bank Park sandwich: The Schmitter.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 14:16:32
Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 14:54:08
John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 15:55:13
CheeseWit

John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.


What do Youze guys expect??
You're getting fed by Aramark!
Aramark feeds people with Institutional Food-----As in Mental Institutions!" />" />" />
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 16:42:27
Foodbme

CheeseWit

John Fox

Yuck! I read the article and for all their "brainstorming" the answer to me is pretty obvious. SERVE A BETTER QUALITY DOG!!!!!

If I find myself at Citizens Bank, I'll try the Schmitter. Or else it will be a pretzel.




John: I'm with you buddy. The dogs suck. Pretzels suck too by the way. That's another one of my pet peeves about the CBP food. Here, in the city that has excellent soft pretzels, we get poor to mediocre frozen J&J pretzels. You can get better soft pretzels outside the park after the games being sold out of shopping carts.


What do Youze guys expect??
You're getting fed by Aramark!
Aramark feeds people with Institutional Food-----As in Mental Institutions!" />" />" />




Understood. Totally.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 18:55:19
I don't know if Aramark is at Citi Field or Yankee Stadium, but at least they have good hot dogs at these stadiums. And as mentioned previously, if the Phils have a contract with Hatfield, they can at least serve the better dog that you can get in Jersey and New York.
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/08 21:11:06
John, I don't think the demand for better dogs exists here in Philly. Hot dogs take a back seat to cheesesteaks and hoagies here. In North Jersey and NY, hot dogs and pizza rule the roost. And the public wants better hot dogs in your area just as they want and fight over the "best" steaks and hoagies here.

I think people here subscribe to the "a hot dog always tastes better at a game than anywhere else" thinking and because it's a tradition to have a dog at a baseball game, they buy one (or more). The quality doesn't matter all that much to the majority of people attending.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 06:18:46
Agreed. And that's the way it is in most of the country. Sometimes I forget that since our little community appreciates good hot dogs. I just wish that when the Phillies or some other company creates all this hype about a better hot dog, that they are improving the actual frank; not taking a lousy dog and throwing on a lot of extra junk. Too bad that this also seems to be the trend with a lot of the newer hot dog joints.
acer2x
Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:01:19
What about using the idea of the new Philly Dog on a Vienna Beef dog( or similar quality dog) a la a Chicago Dog?
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:12:48
John Fox

Agreed. And that's the way it is in most of the country. Sometimes I forget that since our little community appreciates good hot dogs. I just wish that when the Phillies or some other company creates all this hype about a better hot dog, that they are improving the actual frank; not taking a lousy dog and throwing on a lot of extra junk. Too bad that this also seems to be the trend with a lot of the newer hot dog joints.



And I agree with your take too. Now how do we get you to come to Philly for a combination cheesesteak and hot dog tour? I have at least 4 or 5 hot dog stops and a multitude of cheesesteak shops to take you to.
CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 08:40:25
I'd love to hear from Marc Bruno of the Roadfood team who's with Aramark on this subject. Marc, if you're out there, jump in with your point of view either here or privately.
hkrall
Junior Burger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:00:27
I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 


John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:46:39
I don't know if opening a new hot dog place that uses great quality dogs and prepares them well would work either. A few years back a Papaya King opened on South 40th Street in Philadelphia. It lasted a little while and went out of business. They served a top of the line frank, prepared it well, and sold it at a reasonable price.

The Hot Dog Truck at 24th and Passyunk serves a quality Dietz and Watson frank and tops it with pepper hash.

Despite these two places serving very good dogs, and despite the presence of Thumann's in supermarkets, it just seems that people in Philly are happy eating poor quality hot dogs. So even though I would look to serve a better dog, maybe the people who make the decisions at Citizen Bank are right. The key to selling more hot dogs (and making more money) in Philly is not to serve a quality dog, but to gussie it up with a bunch of toppings that appeal to people who really don't care much about the frank. Which I totally disagree with. Like I said earlier, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 15:48:56
hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 
saps
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 16:00:01
Foodbme, you forgot something on your last post:  " />" />
hkrall
Junior Burger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 17:30:01
How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs?


Because I live in Philadelphia, worked in food service and restaurants for years, and talk about hot dogs constantly, and 99% of the people who live here couldn't care less about what brand of hot dog they are eating!


Doesn't mean I don't care, I'd love to see a change, what I'm saying is that there is a golden opportunity in this city for someone to introduce Philadelphians to better hot dogs, because nobody else is doing it.  I'd be there every day!


It does seem a shame that Hatfield actually makes a better quality dog that they are not serving. But I think to a large company, they are thinking that's just not what Philadelphia eats. 




CheeseWit
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 17:59:23
Hey Hawk, on a side note, great job on your illustration of your hot dog of the week this week (and every week for that matter)!
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 18:00:29
Philadelphia doesn't eat it because they don't have access to it. And they don't have access to it because Hatfield doesn't make it available to them. I was told by a distributor that the dog was made to compete with Sabrett. But that doesn't mean Pennsylvania people won't like this dog.

People in Boston for years were happy with their Fenway Franks. It was a cheap mediocre dog. Someone decided to upgrade the Fenway frank despite its popularity. Kayem makes them now. And the response has been great. Red Sox fans love the new Fenway frank! And maybe Philly fans would like a better dog also. I think it would be worth a shot.
John Fox
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 18:10:34
Foodbme

hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 

 
It seems like the "Push Marketing" worked for the Red Sox. I know that there is more of a "hot dog culture" in New York and New Jersey than Philly. But for years they offered lousy dogs at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. And people bought them. Ditto for lousy beer. Well, they upgraded both the beer and the hot dogs. And both are doing well and appreciated by people who may not have bought these products on their own. The same could happen in Philly.

Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 22:51:20
John Fox

Foodbme

hkrall

I think with food service on that scale it really comes down to demand, and there is no demand for better quality hot dogs in philadelphia, aside from a few writers and enthusiasts. 

Most people in Philly aren't even aware that there are hot dogs out there that taste any different from oscar mayer / ball park / hatfield / etc, and nobody seems willing to gamble on doing it differently.

The only way to change that is for someone to open up a new hot dog place here that uses great quality dogs and does it right; something along the line of Crif Dogs (fast, open late, both traditional and a few "wacky" variations) would probably make tons of money with the right location - south street, old city, even across the street from Pat's & Geno's.. 

You make a whole bunch of Generalizations with no basis in fact. How do you know there's no demand for better quality Hot Dogs? How do you know that no one is willing to gamble on doing it differently? How do you know that the ONLY way to change the status quo is by opening a Hot Dog Stand with quality dogs.?
 
IMO, One Hot Dog Stand isn't going to change anything in a city as large as Philly. It would take MANY years to do that. Pat's & Genos took many years to develop their brands.
IMO, If one or two large venues such as a Baseball of Football Stadium would start selling a PROPERLY PROMOTED QUALITY HOT DOG to thousands of people per game, they could change the perceptions of thousands of people very quickly and that would change the demands of consumers and influence supermarkets to carry the product. It's called 'Push Marketing." 

 
It seems like the "Push Marketing" worked for the Red Sox. I know that there is more of a "hot dog culture" in New York and New Jersey than Philly. But for years they offered lousy dogs at Yankee and Shea Stadiums. And people bought them. Ditto for lousy beer. Well, they upgraded both the beer and the hot dogs. And both are doing well and appreciated by people who may not have bought these products on their own. The same could happen in Philly.

 
Thank you John!
I've been involved in Marketing for over 40 years. Some people just don't "Get It". You Obviously Do!
There are several ways to market a new Hot Dog product. You can open a shop/cart and hope to change the world in 30-40 years, OR you can align yourself with a  sizable Hot Dog manufacturer, get them to create a unique, QUALITY recipe for you OR give you a Quality Dog from their existing product line OR find another Vendor. Hot Dogs are sold in the MILLIONS all over the country, and especially in Ballparks. You can't convince me in a million years that patrons won't appreciate and buy a QUALITY dog. Hatfield, Aramark and the Philly's are satisfied with the status quo. As long as the Beer's cold, who cares. Nothing will change until the fans rebel. But they won't. So, you're stuck with what you've got. I wonder how much Hatfield has to kick back to the Phillys & Aramark!!
acer2x
Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/09 23:20:05
Before the growth of the cheesesteak culture in Philly, there was a strong hot dog presence. Levis' and Lenny's were institutions and there were 2 kosher hot dog/knockwurst producers- Formost and Samuel Sandler. My father used to take me to a place on Roosevelt Blvd near Rhawn Street-Vic's-that looked a little like Pink's in LA.  I think a quality beef dog would do well in town but would never surpass the cheesesteak. As it is, I get Hebrew National and Nathan's products at the local markets.

I never liked Jimmy John's in Delaware County. Johnnie's Dog House makes a decent Chicago Dog but I don't know what brand they use.
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnniesDogHouse.htm
 
Lenny's is still around:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/Lennys.htm
 
So is Jimmy John's:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JimmyJohns.htm
post edited by acer2x - 2010/04/10 09:56:09
acer2x
Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 09:10:42
I'll add Texas Weiners to the Philly hot dog scene. There was one in Center City on 13th Street and one in South Philly.
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/APJTexasWeiners.htm
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/TexasWeiner.htm
 
Never been here:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/BlueInGreen.htm
 
or here: 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnsDoggieShop.htm
http://www.hollyeats.com/ConeyIslandJoes.htm 
http://www.hollyeats.com/JohnnysHots.htm
or here but I'm going soon:
http://www.hollyeats.com/MoesHotDogs.htm
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/NicksCharcoalPit.htm
 
There's even a Papaya King here now. Go figure:
 
http://www.hollyeats.com/PapayaKing.htm
post edited by acer2x - 2010/04/10 09:55:24
hkrall
Junior Burger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 12:38:57
acer-
I always wondered what brand of hot dog Levis' used, nice piece of history there!

Both Texas Weiner places are great, and serve the dogs split & grilled, on short, double wide rolls.. Tony Luke's also does the split & grilled and they are all pretty good, none of them natural casing or anything though, but I like them.

Unfortunately Blue & Green and Papaya King are closed.

Moe's is good, they do the pepper hash, jumbo deitz & watson (maybe 4/lb?) dogs on big rolls, mostly steamed but they will also deep fry them. 


hkrall
Junior Burger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 12:49:17
You can't convince me in a million years that patrons won't appreciate and buy a QUALITY dog. Hatfield, Aramark and the Philly's are satisfied with the status quo. As long as the Beer's cold, who cares. Nothing will change until the fans rebel. But they won't.


I think the patrons would love a quality dog! I just don't see Aramark making that change, but if John talks them into it I'll buy you all a hot dog.

Believe it or not, the new dogs are a big improvement on the standard Phillies dogs which are wrapped in foil ahead of time and sit there for hours, lukewarm with a smashed bun.

I don't think the fans will rebel, because even though Philly has a little bit of a hot dog history, the majority of people here aren't passionate about hot dogs the way they are about other things.

If Aramark started serving cheesesteaks with Swiss cheese on baguette you would have people ripping the seats out of the stands and throwing them onto the field, and flipping over cars in the parking lot!
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 13:25:56
Some frankfurter manufacturers may not be interested in making a better quality product, especially those with their own slaughtering operations. If consumers all start demanding a high quality hot dog, what are they going to do with all that fat and mystery meat that finds it ways into hot dogs?

Besides Conagra's Hebrew National, can anyone think of any producer of quality hot dogs discussed here on RF who also has a slaughter operation? (Hatfield has a pork slaughtering operation, don't know where they get their beef and poultry from.)
post edited by David_NYC - 2010/04/10 13:27:45
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Vote for Philly's new signature hot dog 2010/04/10 18:28:05
David_NYC 

If consumers all start demanding a high quality hot dog, what are they going to do with all that fat and mystery meat that finds it ways into hot dogs?


 
Haven't you heard the old Adage -" You can do something with every part of a Hog except the squeal!"
the fat winds up as lard and in dog food. The skin = Pork Rinds!
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