Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question

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DawnT
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Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Mon, 03/29/10 4:32 PM
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My Dad's in his 80's with a lot of medical conditions. Caffiene sensitivity and lactose intolerance among them. One of the things that we try to do is either let him have something he shouldn't have once in a while as a treat. Unfortunately, caffinated coffee isn't one of those things that we can let slip. He's been hankering for a Caramel Frappuccino. That should be easy enough to do with decaffinated coffee and Lactaid milk with Splenda. Problem is the clone recipe books and websites virtually all parrot each other or introduce ingredients that aren't in the drink from what I remember like ice cream or desert toppings.
 
I haven't had one for a few years, but I don't recall milk being added to a Caramel Frappucino as virtually all clone recipes call for. Many call for the addition of caramel ice cream syrup topping. Again, I only recall that being squirted on the inside of the cup and on the top of the whipped cream. I do recall them using a clear,thin, caramel syrup pumped from a container that's like a cordial similar to the Italia D'Oro type clear syrups that you can buy in a liquor or coffee shop for additions to drinks. Clone soures cite double strength coffee or espresso as a subsitute. I know my Cuban coffee and the taste of that espresso, but not Italian roasts, so I can't rule espresso out, but there is certainly nothing that tastes even remotely to the Cuban style espresso that I know and drink daily.
 
From what I recall:
 
1,They first pour in the coffee blend from a pitcher in a cooler.
2, Add a scoop or so of crushed ice.
3, Add a few pumps of the clear syrup
4, Blend
 
Meanwhile they spritz the inside of the cup with a thick, caramel ice cream-like topping for effect. Pour in the blended drink, and top with whipped cream and again drizzle the thick caramel over the cream for presentation. No visible milk added from my recollection.
 
 
 
So my question is this. Is there any milk in the Caramel Frappuccino?
What's in the coffee blend? Is it double strength coffee? Espresso? Blend of either and milk? Sugar?
 
 
Starbucks website lists a figure of 3.5 g of fat and 5g protien for the 'Frapp. w/o whipped cream for a "Grande". None of the above will add protien or fat to the drink unless there must be milk hidden somewhere like the coffee blend.
 
Any professional or first-hand knowledge? 
<message edited by DawnT on Mon, 03/29/10 4:35 PM>

David_NYC
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Mon, 03/29/10 11:16 PM
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Dawn:
Ah, the wonderful world of sodium caseinate, corn syrup solids, HFCS, skim milk powder, and some dairy products. There is a fan(???) site for SB, and this 6-month old thread lists the ingredients of two of the bases you may be interested in:
http://www.ihatestarbucks.com/bb/topic.php?id=1380

There is a brand new thread on there discussing a new base SB is rolling out May 1st to allow more customizing of Frappuccinos:
http://www.ihatestarbucks.com/bb/topic.php?id=1682
ADDENDUM: Starbucks sells regular and SF syrups on their website and in stores, in addition to coffees.
<message edited by David_NYC on Tue, 03/30/10 12:38 AM>

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 1:20 AM
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Thank David.  I had some time to do some searching and even stopped by a local starbucks and bought a grande. What a ripoff! It's been several years since I've been to one and they must be making money hand over fist. It seems that they no longer are dispensing the coffee base from a pitcher in the cooler like they used to. There's a two base dispenser now. It's light colored now for one thing. Inital taste gave two impressions. Xantan Gum (Your link shows Algin/Kelp which I think is nothing but Agar with a fancy name for food service) and some sort of chocolate taste (I was right! shows cocoa powder. Sodium caseinate is milk casien). Agar and Caesin? Two ingredients found in most any bacteriologial lab or ice cream processing. Hmmm, need to pull my old Difco manual. This is sounding like they either started with an ice cream base or the guy worked in a micro lab that invented it and got creative with some of the media. Must be the new stuff in the second link that they're already using.

Gears are turning.

Thanks David!

David_NYC
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 12:02 PM
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Based on the many stories out there about how the drink was invented, I would guess they started with an ice cream base.

I just looked at Google News, and see there has been a lot written about the new customizable Frappuccinos (Search for Starbucks Frappuccinos) in the last month. One story said sales approach $1 billion a year.

It sounds to me that a blend of Lactaid Vanilla & Chocolate ice cream, crushed ice, decaffeinated coffee, caramel syrup, and caramel sauce topping might make a suitable clone. The Lactaid ice creams have the stiffeners and sweeteners. Vanilla might be necessary in case the Chocolate overpowers the caramel flavor.

If soy milk is an option, the new Starbucks formula may be a possibility.

CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 1:08 PM
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If you really want to go into the lab...

You could use a decaf espresso or coffee cold-filtered  concentrate to reduce the acid. Almond milk (if it is ok) will give it a nice nutty kick. No lactose in almond milk.

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 2:32 PM
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I didn't intend to make a better clone of this, but scratch my dad's itch. But hey, you never know. I mentioned to David in a PM that just to give it a try, I made one of the clones for him with some double strength decaf,lactaid,a few shots of caramel Italia d'Oro clear syrup as a starting point. He seemed fine with it, but based on my taste of the real one, next one would have about a 1/4 tsp of xanthan gum added to the blender for the thicker texture along with some chocolate or mocha decaf General Foods Instant coffee as a second start to fill in that chocolate hook.

On a side note, while I'm a heavy coffee drinker, I could never understand how or why this place has such an appeal especially for the prices. What's especially amusing is that this place is considered "healthy" by so many people. The place I visited yesterday was in a difficult location to get into and as far back as the early 60's, it either been empty or the few places that opened up failed shortly. Starb$ has managed to turn this corner into a goldmine and the place was packed at 9 in the evening. Best part is that most of the people in there at the time were obviously there after working out at the Bally's nearby. I didn't see anyone sucking on a cup of joe either. Those drinks,sandwiches,and pastries add up both in $$$ and calories based on the nutritional information that I was searching through for clues yesterday.

CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 3:56 PM
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I got out Starbucks Passion for Coffee cookbook (1994) to see if there was a recipe.  The only frozen drinks are frappes...

18-22 ice cubes
7 oz. double-strength coffee chilled ***Starbucks Gazebo Blend (combination of East African and Arabian coffees***
3 T sugar
3 T syrup of choice
whipped cream

All in the blender (except whipped cream) until smooth.

Makes 1 16 oz. frappe.



MiamiDon
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 4:21 PM
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DawnT, where do you get xanthan gum?

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 4:39 PM
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There's a tiny health food place tucked into that little plaza behind Allen's pharmacy on Bird and Red called Beehive Natural Foods. They stock Xantan and Guar Gum. The brand they sell is NOW brand in a 6 oz container for $8.99. That's really a lot of product as it only takes very small amounts to thicken a cold liquid in a blender.  Very nice people to deal with and they will order anything in small quantities that they have access to.

www.nowfoods.com 
 
 
Edit:
 
Sorry Claudia, didn't see your post until after I sent this. Thanks for the info. I just made some strong brewed chocolate coffee that I forgot that I had in the freezer from Christmas gift in those tiny vaccumed packed packages from gift sets. Looks like I found a use for this one. I'm going to try it with the xanthan gum once it cools in the freezer. 
<message edited by DawnT on Tue, 03/30/10 4:46 PM>

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 6:15 PM
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OK the results look promising here if anyone is interested. Keep in mind that I'm using FF ingredients and whole milk,corn syrup,and regular coffee would work better. Both my M8 and neighbor tried this and were quite impressed with the taste.

4 standard coffee measures to 5 cups (coffee decanter measure) of chocolate flavored ground coffee. Brewed and chilled. I'm using a Bunn coffee maker, so my coffee will be weaker then most drip types.


3/4 cups of the above
1 level measuring teaspoons of xanthan gum
3 TBSP splenda
1 cup Lactaid FF milk
2 1/2 TBSP of beverage grade, clear caramel syrup. I used Italia d'Oro. Torino is probably the same.(Only brand I can find now is DaVinci that's really very very weak and thin by comparison and doesn't taste as good. If you use this brand 6Tbsp) 
2 slightly heaping cups of commerical,bagged ice.

Blend. Blending time also affects the thickness of the xanthan gum to a point. Overblending time affects icy texture. I didn't time it and stopped to taste it and add a bit more xanthan gum.

Top with FF whipped cream and drizzle inside of cup and top of whip cream with Smucker's caramel ice cream topping syrup (also FF)


This is pretty close for a FF product. Criticism was that the coffee taste could be stronger. To me, it seemed pretty close to the real one yesterday. Can't increase the brew or the chocolate goes to strong. Perhaps regular coffee would taste better or maybe the addition of some instant coffee to the inital brew.  It would be interesting to try everything regular using corn syrup. Anyways, nice treat for the cardiac impared folks. Syrup amounts are minimal,so carbs and triglycerides shouldn't be much of a worry.
<message edited by DawnT on Sat, 04/3/10 1:58 AM>

CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 6:34 PM
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Very cool Dawn! Thanks for the 411.

I am going to try it with almond milk.



David_NYC
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Tue, 03/30/10 10:42 PM
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Dawn, I think you did great, and formulated it leaving out the caffeine and lactose. Replacing some of the chocolate flavored ground decaf with regular ground decaf might solve the problem of not enough coffee taste. Glad your dad is able to have a treat once in a while.

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Wed, 03/31/10 12:54 AM
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Chocolate / coffee balance seems right to me with this concentration David. Either way, it's good enough and he's happy. Now I have to find a source for the coffee. Hopefully there's a similar decaf available locally, I haven't checked yet. This was from one of those Christmas gift sets that half the coffees that are in it nobody drinks.

Have to thank you David for the links and info that put me on the right track after I bought that sample drink yesterday. Still think the root of this was based some how with an ice cream base. I found a few clone attempts on the net where people used ice cream and claim a closer tasting clone. Odd at first, but sort of makes sense now. 


CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Wed, 03/31/10 1:33 PM
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Millstone made a decaf chocolate velvet coffee...that seemed to rated well.

http://www.amazon.com/Millstone-Chocolate-Velvet-12-Ounce-Packages/dp/B001EQ4HAI

But they are currently not  showing decaf chocolate velvet on their site. Just chocolate velvet.

http://www.millstone.com/ourcoffees/flavored/Default.aspx

It figures. People liked it so they had to stop the madness.







DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Wed, 03/31/10 4:15 PM
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I think Millstone is carried locally by Winn Dixie or it used to be. I haven't bought any flavored coffee in quite a while. I still have some brew left from yesterday in the fridge to do another batch today and enough to do one more I think.

I found an interesting recipe on the web last evening :
What's more interesting is that Coffeemate's ingredients read similar to Star$
$$ Frap base. The ingredient amounts don't look right though. It takes over 2 c of ice to get a similar consistancy with 1 3/4 c of liquid volume

Base:

2/3 c Coffeemate
1/2 c sugar
1/3 c instant coffee
2 tbsp unsweetened cocoa powder


Add:

1/2 c milk
1 /2 c ice
2 tbsp of the above base.
syrup ?



CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Wed, 03/31/10 5:46 PM
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If it is off I wonder if it could be internet recipe confusion between the Starbucks frozen frappuccino and  the Supermarket Starbucks frappuccino in the bottle.
<message edited by CCinNJ on Wed, 03/31/10 5:47 PM>

David_NYC
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Wed, 03/31/10 7:04 PM
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For General Foods International Coffees, Kraft has a product finder, but it truncates part of the name of the coffees. Drill down from here:
http://productlocator.kraftfoods.com/kraftfoods/productlocator.htm
Product Category: Beverage
Brand: General Foods International Coffee
Then, (try to) pick a flavor.
They also sell it online.

CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Thu, 04/1/10 11:55 AM
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Some of the liquid base and powder must fall off the truck and land on Ebay. People pay like $100 for "hot" Starbucks concoctions. I better stop...before I start up about those tip jars.

David_NYC
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Thu, 04/1/10 1:09 PM
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I think some is sold by owners/employees of licensed locations, e.g. gas stations. While Starbucks may not want to see their 'stuff' sold at retail, there is no stealing involved. Some may also be surplus from licensed locations that shut down.

CCinNJ
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Thu, 04/1/10 2:02 PM
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When an employee or operator of an employee is selling it there is usually stealing involved.

I went through a communication process with Starbucks in regard to legitimate coupons a few years ago.

DawnT
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Re:Any Barista's ? Frozen Frappuccino Question - Sat, 04/3/10 2:05 AM
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I've edited the recipe above to reflect some changes. The consensus has been the coffee has been too weak, so it's now brewed with less water (1/2 decanter/5 cups decanter measure). The xanthan gum has been raised to give a creamier taste to 1 tsp. I also added another amount for the clear, caramel syrup for the DaVinci brand. Gordon Food Service quit carrying Torino and Italia de Oro brands and now only carries DaVinci which is like flavored water.