Ignore the Pizza Police

Post
i95
Double Chili Cheeseburger
RodBangkok
Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 09:12:51
Very good article, in depth and brings up a question, perhaps this belongs in a new thread.

Mentioned here are the trademark or copyright regulations effecting particular food items.  Much like the German beer purity laws, do you think this is something that should be applied more often to a regional recipe?  What comes to mind first off was, and still is the word Kobe beef.  The mass use of this term to describe tacos, burgers, steaks, etc that were clearly priced well below the cost of real Kobe beef and thus started to erode the origin of this item, and gave a lot of people the false sense that they had in fact tried it when they were duped by marketing spin.  Another one that I see a lot is a hot sauce called Sri Racha that is popular in the US, its actually made in California and has nothing to do with or even close in flavor to the real Sri Racha sauces that originate in where else Sri Racha, Thailand.  So I guess my question is should these names be protected, whatever they are, perhaps southern fried chicken, or Chicago style pizza, New York style pizza.  Is it worth going thru the hassle of protecting these by doing what the Italians did, by getting together and defining the essence of a food item and making sure it stays pure? 

Your thoughts?
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 09:35:41
Thanks for posting that.
leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 09:45:04
Fascinating article......These pies sure sound great, and sound like they have the most important ingredient in pizza...LOVE! Great ingredients, love and care all make great pizza.......New York? New Haven? New Zealand...make it right, and they will come....or else go to pizza hut...oh never mind that!!
carolina bob
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 09:49:05
"Nobody cares" is right. I know I don't. Great pizza is great pizza, no matter what name you put on it. Frank Pepe's place is #2 on my list of Roadfood restaurants that I'm eager to get to, second only to Bobcat Bite in Santa Fe. One of these days...
Davydd
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 10:17:43
Having German beer purity laws authentic Neapolitan pizza laws is not a bad thing. It preserves a bench mark. It appears the only commonality is Frank Pepe came from Italy. So New Haven style pizza it is. Is that a bad thing? No.

I hope to taste authentic Neapolitan pizza in Naples, Italy this coming October. I will be following up on Washington, DC area pizzerias this coming year as well. I've already been to a few that claim Neapolitan authenticity. Then sometime soon I hope to get to New Haven. I'll now have to give wanderingjew an opening to step in here. Pizza is pizza.
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 10:23:39
TnTinCT
Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 11:36:54
Really interesting article, but really, by the time I got to the end - I just want a slice now. Time for a run to Pepe's!
MiamiDon
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 11:46:02
There's an American branch of the society promoting Vera Pizza Napoletana.

http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/

Here's a list of the US members:

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/members.html
Mosca
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 12:26:28
Carolina Bob

"Nobody cares" is right. I know I don't. Great pizza is great pizza, no matter what name you put on it. Frank Pepe's place is #2 on my list of Roadfood restaurants that I'm eager to get to, second only to Bobcat Bite in Santa Fe. One of these days...


Absolutely. Rooster Sauce might not come from Sri Racha, but it sure is good.
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 12:43:58
MiamiDon

There's an American branch of the society promoting Vera Pizza Napoletana.

http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/

Here's a list of the US members:

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/members.html


None in Ohio!
ynotryme
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 15:37:26
all that matters is that if it's delicious.
TJ Jackson
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 15:55:31
Michael Hoffman

Thanks for posting that.

Btw, old dude......

Happy (belated 1 day) 10th Anniversary as a member of this board! (7/1/2000 - 7/1/2010)

I think the only other active member who is even close to ten years and not named Stern is Jennifer_4

I think
Howard Baratz
Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:09:36
TJ Jackson

Michael Hoffman

Thanks for posting that.

Btw, old dude......

Happy (belated 1 day) 10th Anniversary as a member of this board! (7/1/2000 - 7/1/2010)

I think the only other active member who is even close to ten years and not named Stern is Jennifer_4

I think

 
Not so, TJ.

TJ Jackson
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:15:09
Howard Baratz
Not so, TJ.

Well, I did say "I think" :-)

(as in.....I am too lazy to sort memberlist by signup date ascending and find the first instance of currently active poster)

I am not sure I will remember to congratulate YOU tommorrow, Howard.......frankly, you should have signed up here 3 days earlier and then YOU could have been the old man of the forums :-)  

You blew it, dude :-)
post edited by TJ Jackson - 2010/07/02 17:17:05
wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:16:27
TJ Jackson

Howard Baratz
Not so, TJ.

Well, I did say "I think" :-) (as in.....I am too lazy to sort memberlist by signup date ascending and find the first instance of currently active poster)

I am not sure I will remember to congratulate YOU tommorrow, Howard.......frankly, you should have signed up here 3 days earlier and then YOU could have been the old man of the forums :-)


Remember, even though the website has been around since 2000, the interactive forum as we know it didn't become "live" until 3/1/03....
TJ Jackson
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:19:27
I'm a bit confused

if the forums did not exist until a few months before my own arrival, why would someone have a much much older forum id?
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:29:02
ynotryme

all that matters is that if it's delicious.

So true!!

wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:40:41
TJ Jackson

I'm a bit confused

if the forums did not exist until a few months before my own arrival, why would someone have a much much older forum id?


You were still able to join and become a member of the roadfood website prior to the interactive forums.
If you go into archive.org you'll see that the forum model was quite different prior to 2003.

ces1948
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 17:57:06
MiamiDon

There's an American branch of the society promoting Vera Pizza Napoletana.

http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/

Here's a list of the US members:

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/members.html


The only one in Florida is across the state from me in Naples.  Appropriate location I would say. Like to give it a try someday.
MiamiDon
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 19:24:20
ces1948

MiamiDon

There's an American branch of the society promoting Vera Pizza Napoletana.

http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/

Here's a list of the US members:

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/members.html


The only one in Florida is across the state from me in Naples.  Appropriate location I would say. Like to give it a try someday.


Yeah, I noticed that, and thought, "Hmmmm...".
sk bob
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 20:59:40
if its good pizza,who cares.
the important thing is that if the person who is eating it likes it & thinks its good, its good to them. to each his own.
F the snobs.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 23:01:03
TJ Jackson

Michael Hoffman

Thanks for posting that.

Btw, old dude......

Happy (belated 1 day) 10th Anniversary as a member of this board! (7/1/2000 - 7/1/2010)

I think the only other active member who is even close to ten years and not named Stern is Jennifer_4

I think


Huh?
Greymo
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/02 23:22:24
sk bob

if its good pizza,who cares.
the important thing is that if the person who is eating it likes it & thinks its good, its good to them. to each his own.
F the snobs.
 

What in the  world do   you  mean  by "F the snobs"?
post edited by Greymo - 2010/07/02 23:23:37
leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 07:20:25
"To each his own"...then how can you be a snob if your "own" is more refined. Some people will eat any kind of hot dog, can't really taste a difference. Good for them. Same with pizza. But many won't eat a certain kind of pizza....chain pizza, and poorly made individually- owned pizza turns me off...to my taste buds, it's not pizza as I expect it to be.....I'm not a snob.....it's just different taste.......If I prefer a craft beer instead of Miller lite,I don't think I'm a snob...if no one was what he called a "snob" we'd all be eating at chains and roadfood would be dead!!
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 08:43:16
leethebard

"To each his own"...then how can you be a snob if your "own" is more refined. Some people will eat any kind of hot dog, can't really taste a difference. Good for them. Same with pizza. But many won't eat a certain kind of pizza....chain pizza, and poorly made individually- owned pizza turns me off...to my taste buds, it's not pizza as I expect it to be.....I'm not a snob.....it's just different taste.......If I prefer a craft beer instead of Miller lite,I don't think I'm a snob...if no one was what he called a "snob" we'd all be eating at chains and roadfood would be dead!!

A big amen to that...

TJ Jackson
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 12:33:31
NYPIzzaNut
MiamiDon
There's an American branch of the society promoting Vera Pizza Napoletana.

http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/

Here's a list of the US members:

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/members.html

None in Ohio!

Not sure why you felt a need to point this out

Well, hmm, maybe I do, actually.

In any case, the fact that none of the listed members are in Ohio is a mostly meaningless fact, just as it will be mostly meaningless when some pizza joint in Ohio does eventually gain this distinction.  The reason it is meaningless is that many good pizzerias PREFER to NOT be rated VPN for various reasons even if they were already able to meet said standard  Why?  Because most folks dont known what VPN means, so having that distinction would be meaningless to most customers and ergo have no impact on their business. 

Further, even among those who ARE well aware of what the designation means, there is disagreement whether or not a VPN pizza is actually a superior product.  I for one would say that a VPN pizza tends to be too wet in the middle for my tastes.  

leethebard
"To each his own"...then how can you be a snob if your "own" is more refined....

...if no one was what he called a "snob" we'd all be eating at chains and roadfood would be dead!!
NYPIzzaNut
A big amen to that...

Gotta thank you both for these big belly-laugh inducing statements.  I need to laugh more.  Thank you.
post edited by TJ Jackson - 2010/07/03 12:42:10
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 14:16:14
Anytime.
sk bob
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 18:26:56
Greymo

sk bob

if its good pizza,who cares.
the important thing is that if the person who is eating it likes it & thinks its good, its good to them. to each his own.
F the snobs.
 

What in the  world do   you  mean  by "F the snobs"?


Forget the snobs.
 
in a way we're all snobs of some sort, are we not?
post edited by sk bob - 2010/07/03 18:30:21
leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/03 22:34:31
Tj...glad you're so easily amused...guess you're not a humour snob!!!!
David_NYC
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/04 13:11:36
Generic NYC slice joints often have a menu board that advertises Neapolitan and Sicilian pizza. The Sicilian is a dollar or two more per pie. The Neapolitan is round and thin. The Sicilian is rectangular, thicker, and usually baked in a pan.

Most of the folks who opened up these NYC joints didn't know anything about trademarks. And the average New Yorker doesn't know about EU place-of-origin labeling rules.
marzsit
Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/07/15 05:26:23
I've had to fly to new haven for work a few times, and have been to pepe's twice. the pizza was good, but wasn't that much different from what i can get at home. there are tons of mom and pop pizza places that make similar pies, but pepe's was the only place where i've ever found clams on a pizza.. which is really strange since clams are abundant here, but usually get breaded and fried or made into chowder..
analei
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 10:15:31
I feel split. On one hand, who cares, but at the same time, the pizza in Italy, or should we say specifically from Napoli is not what you will find there in the aforementioned establishments in New Haven and surrounding states. Is this to say one is better than the other. No..just different, and it is all good, but do not call it one thing when it is not.

Why not celebrate the differences, the innovations, and all that.

The French are very particular that no sparkling wine is allowed to be called champagne unless it is from their own region bearing that name. While perhaps pizza does not rate as high as champagne, i think leaving things to be authentic with its rules and regulations is just fine. 
analei
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 10:17:19
Yikes..please no one get up in arms about pizza being less important than champagne.  . I am sure for some it rates far higher. As for me, it is the perfect drink. I wish i were wealthier so I could drink it every day. 
wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 10:22:20
marzsit

I've had to fly to new haven for work a few times, and have been to pepe's twice. the pizza was good, but wasn't that much different from what i can get at home. there are tons of mom and pop pizza places that make similar pies, but pepe's was the only place where i've ever found clams on a pizza.. which is really strange since clams are abundant here, but usually get breaded and fried or made into chowder..


I remember your comment from a couple of weeks back, but needed time to respond. Although I left Seattle almost a decade and a half ago- my experience with pizza in the metro area was anywhere from just south of  mediocre to downright nasty. I spent my 3 years and 3 months there giving it "the old college try" and was disappointed each and every single time. Since your post I wondered if the situation has changed and checked with my friend who lives in the  Wallingford section of Seattle  but has been to NY more than enough times to know good pizza and as I suspected- it hasn't.
Davydd
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 10:36:40
wj,

I suspect in a decade and a half that the pizza situation has changed in Seattle as it has across most of the country for the better in many instances. There are no regional secrets or monopolies anymore. You can say the same with craft beers and chef driven restaurants. The internet has made so many people much more aware and expectations have increased.
wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 10:51:41
Davydd

wj,

I suspect in a decade and a half that the pizza situation has changed in Seattle as it has across most of the country for the better in many instances. There are no regional secrets or monopolies anymore. You can say the same with craft beers and chef driven restaurants. The internet has made so many people much more aware and expectations have increased.


Davydd
 
I agree to an extent, and that's why I waited a few weeks to respond so I can check with a local source whose opinion I trust. In his opinion the situation hasn't changed. Perhaps if Marzit can provide some specific examples of some of the local pizza places that "aren't much different" then we can have something to go on.
 
You mentioned craft beers as an example, I still say anything from the Rocky Mountain Region and westward still has the monopoly on quality with Northern New England being the exception. Of course there are few exceptions such as the superb pale ale I had earlier this year at the Cocoa Beach Brewing Company in Cocoa Beach Fl and a few brews I enjoyed last year in Nashville with Poverty Pete- but I still think these are few and far between.
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 11:20:28
why would people eat pizza in Seattle? Too many other options.
leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 11:59:21
Hey,for some, pizza is the # 1 choice!!!!
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 12:26:18
Maybe Salmon pizza would work.
joerogo
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 13:57:33
bill voss

Maybe Salmon pizza would work.



I think that would go perfect with an Iced venti 6 shot 2/3 half-caf, 2 1/2 pump sugar-free cinnamon dolce, 2 1/2 pump sugar-free vanilla, 1 pump sugar-free gingerbread, splash of 1% milk (half 2% and nonfat) 2 splenda 3 honey packets(stirred in with the espresso first to melt) light ice, light whip, with cinnamon dolce and nutmeg sprinkles iced coffee.
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 13:59:12
I'll  stick with a bloody mary.
analei
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 16:54:40
JoeRogo..do you know my friend Alexia? Her drink sounds just like that. She drives me nuts with her pretentious, and she tells them in which order to add the ingredients. A mere plebeian like me orders French roast coffee with some cream and sugar. 
joerogo
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/03 21:32:30
analei

JoeRogo..do you know my friend Alexia? Her drink sounds just like that. She drives me nuts with her pretentious, and she tells them in which order to add the ingredients. A mere plebeian like me orders French roast coffee with some cream and sugar. 

 
I copied that from one of wanderingjews trip reports
 
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/04 09:35:35
I was about to ask if you were changing your name to Wanderingjoe...

Brad
Ciaoman
Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/04 10:59:27
There is one thing about Pepe's that is true to its Italian roots...no slices.  They only sell whole pies.  Folks like me spend an hour give or take on the sidewalk outside Pepe's (rain, snow or shine) waiting for a table.  The wait can be fun because you run into people from all over the country and beyond. 
 
IMHO, the Pepe's pie is all about the oven.  Coal rules...it imparts both flavor and texture to Pepe's superlative crust.  Like the best Italian bread you've ever had.  You often see lots of outside crusts left on the plate at lesser places; at Pepe's, everyone eats the crust. 
wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/04 12:46:57
joerogo

analei

JoeRogo..do you know my friend Alexia? Her drink sounds just like that. She drives me nuts with her pretentious, and she tells them in which order to add the ingredients. A mere plebeian like me orders French roast coffee with some cream and sugar. 

 
I copied that from one of wanderingjews trip reports
 


If I remember my coffee lingo-

A decaf skinny latte is also called a "why bother"

http://www.callihan.com/seattle/coffee.htm

I'm actually very easy to please- just a large dark roast with  a few drops of half and half a  half of a packet of raw sugar - then one refill with the same stuff and I'm good for the day!
post edited by wanderingjew - 2010/08/04 12:48:07
plb
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/08/04 12:56:51
marzsit

I've had to fly to new haven for work a few times, and have been to pepe's twice. the pizza was good, but wasn't that much different from what i can get at home. there are tons of mom and pop pizza places that make similar pies, but pepe's was the only place where i've ever found clams on a pizza.. which is really strange since clams are abundant here, but usually get breaded and fried or made into chowder..

 
I've read here for years about white pizza with clams and drooled.  After an exhausting search I finally found it here in Dallas.  It was as good as I hoped.  OK, it was in Highland Park not Dallas, at a high end Italian placed called Nonna.      
 
JJ416
Junior Burger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/10/05 12:30:58
Totally agree..and even though I don't think there needs to be a "pure" organization for Neapolitan pizza--I do love the lists of "best" pizzas on blogs, magazines food critics etc...if only because there are many of us who have very particular taste on what we want in pizza.  I love thin crusted pizza with slightly more sauce than cheese and spice IN the sauce not added on top!  It is very very hard to find.  I recently walked Henry St in Williamsburg (NYC) looking for "Lucali" which I heard had amazing pizza. Unfortunately, it was closed until 6pm so we stopped on the way back at "Francescos" The pizza was delicious and the food at the moderately priced restaurant reminded me of the great tasting Southern Italian restaurants of old.  The point is everyone has their own standards--fine. But there are many of us who have a more defined sense of  taste that needs to be satisfied  the rest of you would readily enjoy--it doesn't work the other way around! 
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/10/05 12:38:17
analei

I feel split. On one hand, who cares, but at the same time, the pizza in Italy, or should we say specifically from Napoli is not what you will find there in the aforementioned establishments in New Haven and surrounding states. Is this to say one is better than the other. No..just different, and it is all good, but do not call it one thing when it is not.

Why not celebrate the differences, the innovations, and all that.

The French are very particular that no sparkling wine is allowed to be called champagne unless it is from their own region bearing that name. While perhaps pizza does not rate as high as champagne, i think leaving things to be authentic with its rules and regulations is just fine. 
Pizza at its best is food for the gods and rates well above any other food or drink in the universe.


leethebard
Sirloin
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/10/06 17:57:59
Oh you are so right,NyPizzaNut....God's gift to food!!!!!!
analei
Double Cheeseburger
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/10/07 11:08:41
NYPIZZANUT..laughs..you have named yourself so aptly.
I love pizza too. Is there anymore more perfect food? One can something from the food pyramid on a nice mantle of crust.
 
I am craving some right now.
NYPIzzaNut
Filet Mignon
Re:Ignore the Pizza Police 2010/10/07 14:02:56
analei

NYPIZZANUT..laughs..you have named yourself so aptly.
I love pizza too. Is there anymore more perfect food? One can something from the food pyramid on a nice mantle of crust.

I am craving some right now.
I didn't have to give it much thought...