Chicken and Waffles---good food or an insult?

The LA Times has an article today about the University of California Irvine cafeteria serving chicken and waffles in honor of MLK Day. Several people, primarily students, have claimed it was "insensitive". Give me a break! Chicken and Waffles is a staple, found in places like Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles in Los Angeles and Sylvia's Queen of Soul Food in New York's Harlem. When I go to Roscoe's, the majority of people in there are usually African-American.What next---------serving corned beef and cabbage on St. Patrick's day will be insensitive too?
 
http://www.latimes.com/ne...259024.story?track=rss

I think it's just a sensitive issue all around.  A few years back our cafeteria at work decided to celebrate MLK Day by serving fried chicken, collard greens, corn on the cob, biscuits and watermelon.  Some of us were a little disturbed by this, until one of our coworkers mentioned the same thing about St. Patrick's Day so I guess it was all meant to be harmless.  Maybe we were just being too sensitive to the whole thing.  BTW the food was great that day.  Wish they would bring back the menu on occasion.  I think sometimes we just read too much into things.

Bastardi Pazzo!!!!  Next thing you know they will be claiming that Italians who like pasta are not politically correct

I guess this doesn't go away doesn't it? Last year, same thing happened at NBC's cafeteria in NY and somebody snapped a picture of the menu board and it made the rounds with the same accusations of insensitivity even though the meal was planned and prepared by the head chef who was also black and vetted by her superiors. She claimed that she prepared Dr. King's favorite meal in his honor and was befuddled at the media furor. NBC appologized.

I discussed this with Roz who is black.  Many of you know her and I ask her opinion of this and her response was that it was ridiculous.  What better way to celebrate some ones life with what they enjoy.
 
She and I both would totally enjoy waffles and fried chicken.
 
Perhaps it would have been different had it been chitlens and collards but if it had, so what?  We all live in a diverse life.  I have know Roz for better than 25 years and she enjoys all types of food and she does not racially equate roadfood folks with their desire of food.  She is not that way and neither am I.
 
The time is way over for folks to get off on racial food.  I enjoy collards, fried chicken but not necessarily chitlens  Not because of the implications but because I do not care for them.
 
For those of you who know Roz, you will totally understand.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

And I'll raise a bowl of Matzoh Ball Soup and  a plate of chopped liver loaded with Schmaltz to that!

We WASPs are fine with chicken and waffles as long as the restaurant provides a knife and fork for eating the fried chicken.
 
Actually I prefer the PA Dutch approach to chicken and waffles - creamed chicken over waffles.

Sundancer7


I discussed this with Roz who is black.  Many of you know her and I ask her opinion of this and her response was that it was ridiculous.  What better way to celebrate some ones life with what they enjoy.

She and I both would totally enjoy waffles and fried chicken.

Perhaps it would have been different had it been chitlens and collards but if it had, so what?  We all live in a diverse life.  I have know Roz for better than 25 years and she enjoys all types of food and she does not racially equate roadfood folks with their desire of food.  She is not that way and neither am I.

The time is way over for folks to get off on racial food.  I enjoy collards, fried chicken but not necessarily chitlens  Not because of the implications but because I do not care for them.

For those of you who know Roz, you will totally understand.

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

 
Hey Paul, let's not forget your love of crackins

 

That cracks me up  I am glad you found it and I am glad you were there and met ROZ.
 
Actually they were not that good  Roz did not like them either.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

I'm still amazed at it. Shows that no good deed goes unpunished. Funny thing----I bet a lot of the "soul food" type restaurants probably also served specials to commemorate the day. If I had thought of it, probably would have been a good day to go to M&M Soul Food or Jaybee's Barbecue----two of my favorite places---and I think likely to have served a special dish or two that day. I think a lot of it is the students-----seems like they need to protest something all the time!

I would like to know what the outcry would have been if the food choices served on MLK day wouldnt have been something Dr.King didnt enjoy.

Annpeeples:  Touché !!

Do these politically correct  people ever realise how much they impede free speech and expression.  I have zero tolerance for them and take great pleasure in turning the tables on them. It is pretty funny.

I'm married to someone of Polish descent.  I think he would laugh like crazy of someone had a day in honor of Pollacks and had a menu featuring duck blood soup and cabbage and all the other "specialties".  There could even be an edict that in order to partake in the feast you had to wear plaid pants and a striped shirt (as in "you look like a real pollack in that outfit).  He would find that hilarious and so would everyone else. 

Allgood and analei, you've hit upon it exactly. I'm of Jewish descent. If I was still in college and my school cafeteria served potato pancakes (latkes) in honor of Chanukah, I would be thrilled. It's not "insensitive"---it's just honoring something through an easily identifiable item----food. Free speech-----it seems those who call out "insensitive" are the biggest impediments to free speech. And allgood----your hubby might laugh like crazy if a place did that. But you might ask him----would he go? I bet he would! Of course, the chances might be even better if the served pierogies!

Free speech means you're free to speak your mind.  It doesn't give what you say the right to be free from criticism.
 
I doubt any insult was intended, but it's hard to equate ethnic slurs.  We live in a region where the phrases "guinea tee" (a sleeveless tee-shirt) and "jew him down" (bargain) are fairly common.  The Italians tend to laugh about "guinea tee."  The Jews tend to find "jew him down" antisemitic.  I don't fully understand the differing reactions but they exist, and there's nothing wrong with trying to be sensitive to someone else's feelings.

Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle


Free speech means you're free to speak your mind.  It doesn't give what you say the right to be free from criticism.

I doubt any insult was intended, but it's hard to equate ethnic slurs.  We live in a region where the phrases "guinea tee" (a sleeveless tee-shirt) and "jew him down" (bargain) are fairly common.  The Italians tend to laugh about "guinea tee."  The Jews tend to find "jew him down" antisemitic.  I don't fully understand the differing reactions but they exist, and there's nothing wrong with trying to be sensitive to someone else's feelings.

 
I agree to some extent. When I was sixth grade, a good friend talked about how his dad bought something and "Jewed him down". I was very uncomfortable---even hurt. But that was mainly ignorance. What the cafeteria at UCI tried to do was HONOR Dr. Martin Luther King. Their way of doing it was with a food identified with the black experience, served in honor of a great man. I can't see how that could possibly be construed as "insensitive". As I mentioned before, if I'd gone to Roscoe's, they probably would have had something on the menu to honor him. The City of Long Beach, CA has a parade for him---and it uses as part of it's route Dr. Martin Luther King Blvd. Is that "insensitive" too? Or is it just a tempest in a teapot? What would have happened if the school (and other places too) chose to ignore MLK Day. Wouldn't that have been more insensitive?

It's a difficult balance, for sure.  For sure, some people choose to take offense where none was intended because they like to play the victim.  Also, some folks like to get up real close to the fine line between recognizing cultural differences and offensive stereotyping.  Then when the storm happens they plead ignorance.
 
I'd put my money on the chicken and waffles having been meant as honoring, not insulting, the memory of Dr. King.  And the people who objected probably overreacted.  But what if they had served just watermelon?  Which they didn't - but if it had happened, it would be easy to see the insult there.  It's possible to insult with a simple food item.  Chicken and waffles just doesn't seem to me to be that food item.
 
I find it hard to be angry with people who have endured generations of insults and abuse (and much worse) when they see a snub that isn't there.  And I think that may account, at least in part, for why African and Jewish Americans might be more sensitive to possible slights.

Lo Lo's Chicken & Waffles in Phoenix is owned By Mrs. White's, (Of Mrs White's Golden Rule Cafe) Grandson. They both practice The Golden Rule and sell Soul Food. Both people are Black Americans with their customers being a mix of all races, Black, White Hispanic, etc.
 
 Those UC Irvine Kooks are only ranked below the Uber PC-Kooks at Cal- Berkley! Get over it!

Lo Lo's Chicken & Waffles in Phoenix is owned By Mrs. White's, (Of Mrs White's Golden Rule Cafe) Grandson. They both practice The Golden Rule and sell Soul Food. Both people are Black Americans with their customers being a mix of all races, Black, White Hispanic, etc.
 
 Those UC Irvine Kooks are only ranked below the Uber PC-Kooks at Cal- Berkley! Get over it!

It would be insensitive if they served Tea Sandwiches and Bangers & Mash, along with High Tea!

I am quite surprised.
 
I find "Jew him down" extremely offensive.  I don't care if it's commonplace in areas.  A place serving latkes because it's Chanukkah is not offensive.  There is a difference.
 
Whenever there is a Jewish holiday, any Jewish holiday all of the markets in this area put up large displays of foods eaten specifically during Passover.
 
It's a nice gesture, even though it's incorrect.  What do we do?  We buy and eat the Passover foods.  We do not alert the press.
 
Certain things or foods are stereotypically negative. Myself I wouldn't have thought fried chicken and waffles offensive as they are served at many restaurants.
 
In the students' case I find it going a bit overboard but I'm not them.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
I would be very offended by this menu. Where are the Ribs??
That may be part of the problem.  It may have been perceived as a toss-out special, when a complete and enticing meal/menu could have been offered. 
I wonder what is going to happen in that cafeteria when Chinese New Year comes up shortly? General Tso and fried rice is not much of a offering but it does equal chicken and waffles. If the cafeteria offers more than two items, that will cause a scene too.
 
mark

I teach at a private school, so we had classes on MLK Day.  Our sit-down dinner that night was fried chicken with all the fixins.  They do this every year, and the kids joke about it -- yet they love the chicken and complain that the dining hall doesn't serve it often enough!  For the Chinese New Year, we always have a huge Chinese food spread (we have about 30 Chinese students), and everyone loves it.    Chris

I seem to remember reading somewhere a while back that chicken & waffles was a favorite meal of the late Dr. King.  I don't know how accurate that is as everything on the internets isn't 100% true.  I got the impression from the original article that the chef at UC Irvine was doing this as a way to celebrate Dr. King and with chicken being the meat of the day on the menu he wanted to come up with a dish that he might have liked to eat if he were here today.  
 
Bruce, I second what you voiced about free speech and criticism.  I wonder though, where you live, the phrase about Italian t-shirts, is that said by Italians about each other or by non-Italians about Italians?  I've heard it fairly often in the city when someone of Italian descent would use it to describe someone else Italian.  Where I grew up in Central NY, there weren't and still aren't very many Jewish people but I used to hear that phrase frequently when growing up.  I would make me cringe as it obviously wasn't being used as a term of endearment.  
 
I'd be curious to hear specifically what the offended students had thought of the menu choice and if it was a knee-jerk reaction or they had inquired further about why the chef had made that the food of the day.

Who doesn't like fried chicken?  I know a few and perhaps Michael who hates chicken wings is one of those? 
 
At my age, I am not offended by any food regardless of the special day.
 
I believe folks who get offended are a little bit sensitive over absolute nothing.  This is an age of absolute no food diversity.  Why should we? 
 
I am a white American male and Roz is a black African American female.  Neither of us are ever offended by any food.  As Andrew Zimmern says:  If it looks good, eat it. 
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

ALLGOOD


I'm married to someone of Polish descent.  I think he would laugh like crazy of someone had a day in honor of Pollacks and had a menu featuring duck blood soup and cabbage and all the other "specialties".  There could even be an edict that in order to partake in the feast you had to wear plaid pants and a striped shirt (as in "you look like a real pollack in that outfit).  He would find that hilarious and so would everyone else. 

 
Then your husband needs to come to the Chicago area where the first Monday in March is celebrated as Pulaski Day and everything possible goes Polish for the day and Chicago City schools close. There are Polish feasts and even the supermarkets advertise various Polish foods on special.

When you come to my home for a special meal, it's Italian Food.  Because it's who I am and where I came from.  Whether it's the peasant food we ate because we couldn't afford anything else or milk fed veal, I am proud and happy with my ethnic background and the foods associated with it. 
 
I guess you could say I'm uninsultable.

Yeah, but you eat well.

I will echo joerogo-I am of German descent. and I make a wonderful beef rouladen handed down from my great-grandmother.I am happy and proud to serve this dish.

Being a 100% Irish["dishwasher wanted, Irish need not apply], the late 18's and early 1900's were not kind to my forefathers, one of whom came here as and indentured servant, that said, there is absolutely nothing that someone could say in general about being Irish, that would remotely offend me. I speak for all of my personal Irish heritage friends when I say this. We are all confident in the wonderful successes this incredible Country has blessed us with, and the hard work and family bonds that made all the success possible. We also happen to naturally have a wonderful sense of humor, and a propensity to not take ourselves too seriously. In a nutshell most of us find Pc, bullcrap! Whew, I now need a beer!
PS. "God created liquor to keep the Irish from conquering the world."
Irish Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to go to hell so they will look forward to the trip!

Sundancer7


Who doesn't like fried chicken?  I know a few and perhaps Michael who hates chicken wings is one of those? 

You're right Paul. I do not like fried chicken.

Right now I am watching "Portlandia", an absolutely hilarious satire on my home city of portland and its foibles. Because it is about semi-privlidged white folks who are incredibly p.c. I doubt there will be attacks and since so many of us here  in Portland see exaggerated visions of ourselves in the humor, it is truly enjoyable and  there is little worry about offending by the artists who created it. I think that the Irvine students were trying to be sensitive to American racial history and may have gone overboard and were trying to bridge a gap between perceived black-white differences and sensibilities that is very difficult to navigate when you are trying to be sensitive to the differences.  

would this fly in Irvine?
  Southern food goes upscale at Pican, others
 When Pican owner Michael LeBlanc began pitching his concept of an upscale Southern restaurant, all he got was silence.
[font="georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif; line-height: 22px; font-size: 16px; border-collapse: collapse"] Never mind that he'd been a top executive at Polaroid, running its Asia/Pacific operations. Or that he'd opened the first black-owned brewery on the West Coast.
Soul food as fine dining? InOakland, no less?
"The stares, the looks, were deafening," LeBlanc says of those early investor meetings. "I wanted to say, 'Please don't look at me in that voice.' "
That Pican is now a chirping success in Oakland's Uptown district isn't just a testament to LeBlanc's vision. It's part of a Bay Areamovement pushing the boundaries of what Southern cuisine can taste - and look - like.
Down the street from Pican is Tanya Holland's always-busy Brown Sugar Kitchen, with its signature chicken and waffles. A second branch is scheduled to open this spring in San Francisco, where the elegant 1300 on Fillmore and rustic Farmer Brown have established themselves in the past few years.
"It's Southern influence with California ingredients," says David Lawrence, the executive chef at 1300 on Fillmore.
It's a California spin on Cajun, Creole and Caribbean flavors. And it's coming from a new wave of black-owned restaurants that is neither mom-and-pop nor celebrity-driven, like Michael Jordan's chain of steak houses or Norm Nixon's Odessa in Laguna Beach (Orange County) and Sean "P. Diddy" Combs' Justin's in New York, both now closed.
continued......

If I may be sold bold, why chicken and waffles together? That makes no sense. Is there syrup with the waffles? Are they meant to be eaten together in some bizarre waffle rollup with meat? How do you eat that?
I could see getting some fried chicken and having the waffle for dessert, but usually I will just have breakfast for dinner, get bacon, butter and Aunt Jemima!

I don't know that I paid attention to this thread when it first came around.  But, since then, I have traveled to Irvine and I think the problem may be less about African-Americans being offended and more about non-black people thinking African-Americans being offended.  According to UCI's enrollment data (are you proud of me, nancypalooza?), only 2% of their population identifies themselves as African-American.  
 
I am not sure who tried to compare UCI to Berkeley, but if you think that Irvine, CA is the same bastion of liberalism as Berkeley, CA, you've never been to either place.
 
I am, however, offended that tomorrow is National German Chocolate Cake Day.  

senor boogie woogie


If I may be sold bold, why chicken and waffles together? That makes no sense. Is there syrup with the waffles? Are they meant to be eaten together in some bizarre waffle rollup with meat? How do you eat that?
I could see getting some fried chicken and having the waffle for dessert, but usually I will just have breakfast for dinner, get bacon, butter and Aunt Jemima!

On one of the Food Network shows, they talked about how some of the clubs in Harlem closed very late at night, and some of the patrons and/or musicians were looking for late dinner and some early breakfast, thus chicken and waffles was born.  Or that's their story anyway. 

From Wiki:

There's also a Pennsylvania Dutch Version:
A version of this dish mostly known within areas that have Pennsylvania Dutch influences consists of a plain waffle with pulled, stewed chicken on top, covered in gravy.
 
The Soul Food Version:
The exact origins of the dish are unknown; there are several versions of its origins.
One version:
"As unusual as it might seem, the marriage of chicken and waffles actually has deep roots. Thomas Jefferson brought a waffle iron back from France in the 1790s and the combination began appearing in cookbooks shortly thereafter. The pairing was enthusiastically embraced by African Americans in the South. For a people whose cuisine was based almost entirely on the scraps left behind by landowners and plantation families, poultry was a rare delicacy; in a flapjack culture, waffles were similarly exotic. Chicken and waffles for decades has been a special-occasion meal in African American families, often supplying a hearty Sunday morning meal before a long day in church...".[2] Another version:
Some historians believe the dish goes back to the late 19th century, when Southern African-Americans, recently freed from slavery, began migrating to the Northern United States. According to author John T. Edge: "My guess is that it comes from the days when someone would go out in the morning and wring a chicken's neck and fry it for breakfast. Preparing a breakfast bread with whatever meat you have on the hoof, so to speak, comes out of the rural tradition".[1] Benny's Home Cooked.com notes:
"It is interesting to note that this combination and/or recipe does not appear in Abby Fisher's 1881 cookbook What Mrs. Fisher Knows About Old Southern Cooking. Mrs. Fisher was a former slave and her book is generally considered the first cookbook written by an African-American. These foods appear (but not together) in Mrs.Porter's 1871 cookbook Mrs. Porter's Southern Cookery Book.[3]

[edit] Wells Supper Club

A restaurant named the Wells Supper Club in Harlem (1938–1999) used the slogan "Wells: Home of Chicken and Waffles, Since 1938".[4]
A commonly quoted story is that the Wells Supper Club started selling the chicken and waffles dish to late-night patrons of their club in 1938 "as it was too late for dinner, and too early for breakfast"; so Wells Supper Club served both dishes on the one plate.[5][6]

The Travelin Man


I don't know that I paid attention to this thread when it first came around.  But, since then, I have traveled to Irvine and I think the problem may be less about African-Americans being offended and more about non-black people thinking African-Americans being offended.  According to UCI's  (are you proud of me, nancypalooza?), only 2% of their population identifies themselves as African-American.  

I am not sure who tried to compare UCI to Berkeley, but if you think that Irvine, CA is the same bastion of liberalism as Berkeley, CA, you've never been to either place.

I am, however, offended that tomorrow is .  

 
Irvine is nothing like Berkeley!!!!!! I was a student at UCI around this time..how come I don't remember this happening? I would've loved to eat some chicken and waffles on campus hahaha anybody try Bruxie in Orange yet? Been dying to try.

The best I ever had was at the old Zens diner around Denver Pa
It was the Pennsylvania Dutch Version and was wonderful ,as was most of their food
I really miss the Place

Heartburn

The best I ever had was at the old Zens diner around Denver Pa
It was the Pennsylvania Dutch Version and was wonderful ,as was most of their food
I really miss the Place

Being from PA, I prefer the PA Dutch style----HOWEVER--- I've never turned down the Fried Chicken version. Have been to Lo Lo's Chicken & Waffles and Mrs. Whites Golden Rule many times!
http://www.loloschickenandwaffles.com/
http://mrswhitesgoldenrulecafe.com/

senor boogie woogie


If I may be sold bold, why chicken and waffles together? That makes no sense. Is there syrup with the waffles? Are they meant to be eaten together in some bizarre waffle rollup with meat? How do you eat that?
I could see getting some fried chicken and having the waffle for dessert, but usually I will just have breakfast for dinner, get bacon, butter and Aunt Jemima!

 
I think I recall you being from Bucksnort, TN.  Being from the south, I am sure that if you ever bought fried chicken in the south, it is usually served with honey.  Perhaps some type of bread and probably southern corn bread.
 
It is my personal thought that chicken, waffles and syrup is just sort of a take off from that.  I have enjoyed it in LA at Ralph's and other places in Atlanta.  Personally, I think the combination really goes good together.  Apparently a lot of other folks do also.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN