Corned Beef question

Author Message
chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 11:57 AM
0
I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?

EdSails
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/9/2003
  • Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 1:54 PM
0
Not sure how long to corn it since I use the pre-corned ones, but putting a nice rub on and a few hours smoking followed by a half hour in the pressure cooker does wonders. I find a combo of oak and cherry does well in the smoking.

bdtn
  • Total Posts : 98
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 6/24/2008
  • Location: columbia, TN
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 2:09 PM
0
after pumping the brisket lay flesh side up then sprinkle with the spice then lay anothe bisket flesh side down on top.
then repeat till vat is full then cover with the rest of the brine then cure for 3-4 days. about a good hand full of spice for every 2 briskets
should do it.

pnwchef
  • Total Posts : 2230
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/16/2011
  • Location: Kennewick, WA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 2:54 PM
0
Chewy, if you brine and then pepper & smoke then its a pastrami. I was going to corn one in a week or so. You may also want to inject the solution into the brisket..................keep in touch...........

bartl
  • Total Posts : 1208
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/6/2004
  • Location: New Milford, NJ
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 4:33 PM
0
I don't have a copy handy, but when I was living in Amsterdam, we gave the corned beef recipe from the Settlement Cookbook to the local butcher, and he followed it and the corned beef always came out pretty good (although a couple of times it was a bit underpickled, a 1/4"-3/8" dot of gray in the center, so I would extend the brining time by about 10%).
 
Bart

ann peeples
  • Total Posts : 8317
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/21/2006
  • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 4:45 PM
0
I corned a  brisket once. Or rather two or 3. They were each 5-7lbs each. I used at least 5lbs of Penzeys-I happen to like more as then we dont have to spice later.. I even add a bay leaf or 2. I let it rest for 7 days.Absolutely fantastic corned beef-sandwiches included. Customers loved that they didnt have to add anything to the sandwiches. I served them "naked"-add whatever you wanted-swiss cheese, mustard, sauerkraut, thousand island, russian, onions, whatever.

bdtn
  • Total Posts : 98
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 6/24/2008
  • Location: columbia, TN
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:01 PM
0
pumping means injecting 10-14 percent  brine into the meat if you dont't inject it it could take up to 2 weeks to cure
depending on thickness on st paddys day we do a whole rear leg (steamship round) pumpit up with 10-15 % of brine let it sit
1 week turning every day then roasting for about 10 hour at 275 its a nice show carving giant corned beef and cheap

Foodbme
  • Total Posts : 9540
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 9/1/2006
  • Location: Gilbert, AZ
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:04 PM
0
chewingthefat


I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?


From Penzey's web site;
Corned Beef Spices salt free
To marinate beef brisket use 3-5 TB. per 5 lbs, along with salt brine


chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:13 PM
0
PNWCHEF


Chewy, if you brine and then pepper & smoke then its a pastrami. I was going to corn one in a week or so. You may also want to inject the solution into the brisket..................keep in touch...........

Bill, is a Pastrami a first and second cut of the brisket, or simply a first cut?
If I corn it and smoke it is it pastrami or corned beef??


Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:34 PM
0
CTF, pastrami is usually first cut, or flat. At least, it is when talking about the pastrami normally available in delicatessens.

edwmax
  • Total Posts : 2014
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 1/1/2007
  • Location: Cairo, GA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:51 PM
0
chewingthefat


I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?

I'm not sure what you have;  ... Looks like you may have spices only; no salt cure.   Penzys direction indicate 3 to 5 TBs per 5 lbs meat and mixed into the brine.    ... The brine mixture will have sodium nitrite and/or sodium nitrate and salt.   Use these exactly per manufacture's instructions and required curing time.    ... Homemade cures may have saltpeter; but this is no long used in commercial cures.   .... Morton Tender Quick (used for corned beef); Prague Powder (pink salt & different mixes available); & Insta Cure are the commercial cures.    .... Without the nitrite, nitrate or saltpeter your corned beef will have a gray color ( not red); but will still be good.  Some people like it this way.
 
In the older days (before refrigeration) the brine was so strong the meat would cure in 3 or 4 days.   Most of today's recipes call for 7 to 10 days with the meat and mixture stored in the cooler or Frig.   So curing time depends on the strength of the brine solution.
 
This is a good reference to start with:   http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/sodium-nitrate.html        ... i have found recipes for homemade cures on the web.   ... And there are many recipes for corning beef.   
 
Hope this helps, but I can't answer you question from the info given.    ... nitrite, nitrate or saltpeter is dangerous if too much is used; and is why Cures are available for general use pre-mixed with salt.
<message edited by edwmax on Sun, 04/17/11 5:53 PM>

EdSails
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/9/2003
  • Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 5:58 PM
0
Every St. Paddy's Day week when they have the CB's on sale I buy a bunch. This year they were 99 cents/lb. for point cut. Oddly enough, the ones I chose were flat and rectangular so maybe I'm missing the point?  Takes the wait out of brining, although I do have the Penzey's corning spice pack here if I ever get ultra-ambitious. I think I have around 5 left to keep me in pastrami heaven for a while. 
This is more or less what I followed---
 
http://playingwithfireand.../05/beef-pastrami.html
 
I used the version #3. I used basically the rub shown except added Juniper Berries from Penzey's and actually threw a tablespoon of that Penzey's Corned Beef Spice into the rub before I gave it a few spins in the spice grinder. Just wanted the peppercorns etc. cracked, not ground. Instead of ground pepper I used both black and white peppercorns. Had thumbs up from a few New Yorkers who I had over for dinner so I take it as a good sign. I've heard too what MH said about the flats being used but I had enough choice (the meat dept. guy wheeled a whole cart of CB's out for me to choose from before he put them out) so my "points" look identical to the flats they were selling for $2.99/lb. With the smoker you have, yours should taste awesome!

pnwchef
  • Total Posts : 2230
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/16/2011
  • Location: Kennewick, WA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 6:25 PM
0
Hey Chewy, I would think both would fit in your restaurant real well. The pastrami taking on the smoked brisket, boiling another brisket for Corned beef. Put a smear of Philippe's mustard on either and your in heaven......pnwc

EdSails
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/9/2003
  • Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 6:45 PM
0
PNWCHEF


Hey Chewy, I would think both would fit in your restaurant real well. The pastrami taking on the smoked brisket, boiling another brisket for Corned beef. Put a smear of Philippe's mustard on either and your in heaven......pnwc

 
My favorite mustard for pastrami and corned beef is from your neck of the woods, PNWC.
 

It is awesome!

pnwchef
  • Total Posts : 2230
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/16/2011
  • Location: Kennewick, WA
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 6:53 PM
0
Ed, I use the Beavers Hot and sweet.............Great minds.....

planojim
  • Total Posts : 175
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/25/2005
  • Location: plano, TX
Re:Corned Beef question - Sun, 04/17/11 8:44 PM
0
when making home made cured meats.....bacon, corned beef, sausages, etc....I normally follow Ruhlman's advice and recipes.  Here's his for corned beef:

http://ruhlman.com/2010/03/corned-beef-how-to-cure-your-own.html
 
I normally make 2 briskets at a time.  One I simmer and used for corned beef.  The other I coat in a 1:1 ratio of cracked black pepper and coriander seed.  Smoke it for 4 hours at about 210-240, cover in foil, bake at 200 for about 5 hours till it reaches internal temp of 175.  Uncover, bake till it reaches about 182.
 

ann peeples
  • Total Posts : 8317
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/21/2006
  • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 9:29 AM
0
Absolutely love Beaver Brand mustards!

chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 11:54 AM
0
Thanks one and all, I'll let you know how it turns out, hopefully have some pics!

mar52
  • Total Posts : 7593
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 4/17/2005
  • Location: Marina del Rey, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 11:55 AM
0
Beaver Brand mustards are great.
 
Still looking for their large squeeze bottle of cranberry mustard.... for my mother who lacks sensible taste in food.
 
Their creamed horseradish sauce is quite good.
 
You could die using a like amount of Phillipe's mustard.

Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 12:02 PM
0
Thinks I learn here: I buy that company's cream-style horseradish under the brand name Inglehoffer. And you can get Beaver cranberry mustard here:
 
http://www.beavertonfoods.com/beaver.php

Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 12:15 PM
0
Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.
 
http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/

mar52
  • Total Posts : 7593
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 4/17/2005
  • Location: Marina del Rey, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 12:47 PM
0
 Thank you for the mustard link.
 
As for Phillipe's Original...  The description of the mustard is mild.
 
 
Warning about the article...  Prices are up and the mustard is now in squeeze bottles... but the parking is still free.
 
It's absolutely worth the trip.  

Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 12:50 PM
0
Well, considering that it's unlikely I'll ever get to california before an earthquake slides it into the Pacific ... .

pnwchef
  • Total Posts : 2230
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/16/2011
  • Location: Kennewick, WA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 1:00 PM
0
Beaver does make Cranberry Mustard, and if someone was to eat that kind of mustard, you would figure that person would be located in LA... Just Sayin'

mar52
  • Total Posts : 7593
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 4/17/2005
  • Location: Marina del Rey, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 1:14 PM
0
Hey!  My mother is from New York.
 
Interesting to me is that Phillipe's does not serve corned beef.
 
Guess they don't have room for the lines that would form out the door.

chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 1:24 PM
0
Michael Hoffman


Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/

If you go to Penzy's, you can buy the hot mustard powder they use to make their mustard, really easy to make this atomic stuff Michael, it will clear your sinuses, or call them, Philippe's, they will ship you a bottle!


Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 2:29 PM
0
I checked out their website -- Phillipe's. It can be ordered there.

mar52
  • Total Posts : 7593
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 4/17/2005
  • Location: Marina del Rey, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 2:40 PM
0
It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.
 
  $125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING
 
 

Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 2:42 PM
0
mar52


It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.

$125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING



WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a deal.

pnwchef
  • Total Posts : 2230
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 3/16/2011
  • Location: Kennewick, WA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 4:20 PM
0
mar52


It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.

$125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING



I'll take 2 pork, 2 Roast Beef, 2 lamb sandwiches and a Jar of mustard  ........

EdSails
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/9/2003
  • Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 5:40 PM
0
Michael Hoffman


Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/

 
Don't listen to her though.....take it from me. 
Order the cute baby animal.

ann peeples
  • Total Posts : 8317
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/21/2006
  • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 5:58 PM
0
Okay-not that I am jealous-You dont ever answer my obvious  answers, ctf.Okay-wont post my cooking techs. So sorry.

chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 6:09 PM
0
annpeeples


Okay-not that I am jealous-You dont ever answer my obvious  answers, ctf.Okay-wont post my cooking techs. So sorry.

??? what do you mean ann?


Michael Hoffman
  • Total Posts : 17810
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 6:14 PM
0
EdSails


Michael Hoffman


Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/


Don't listen to her though.....take it from me. 
Order the cute baby animal.

Oh, I would. I love good cute baby animal.


chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Mon, 04/18/11 6:16 PM
0
annpeeples


I corned a  brisket once. Or rather two or 3. They were each 5-7lbs each. I used at least 5lbs of Penzeys-I happen to like more as then we dont have to spice later.. I even add a bay leaf or 2. I let it rest for 7 days.Absolutely fantastic corned beef-sandwiches included. Customers loved that they didnt have to add anything to the sandwiches. I served them "naked"-add whatever you wanted-swiss cheese, mustard, sauerkraut, thousand island, russian, onions, whatever.

ann, today I got 5 lbs. of Penzy's corned beef seasoning delivered, really I did, I'm going to try your method, 1 first, so if I screw it up, it doesn't cost me much. Will let all know, hopefully pics! Thanks!!
Tom


ann peeples
  • Total Posts : 8317
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/21/2006
  • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
Re:Corned Beef question - Tue, 04/19/11 5:30 AM
0
Dont worry about my replies-menopause.

UncleVic
  • Total Posts : 6025
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 10/14/2003
  • Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Re:Corned Beef question - Tue, 04/19/11 7:37 AM
0
Chewingthefat... Check out this forum (search corned beef):
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/

david n
  • Total Posts : 1
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 9/13/2005
  • Location: dallas, TX
Re:Corned Beef question - Tue, 04/19/11 9:54 AM
0
Pastrami is smoked corned beef.

chewingthefat
  • Total Posts : 6093
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 11/22/2007
  • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
Re:Corned Beef question - Tue, 04/19/11 12:00 PM
0
UncleVic


Chewingthefat... Check out this forum (search corned beef):
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/

UncleVic, great resource, thanks!


Food_Fan
  • Total Posts : 139
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 2/3/2009
  • Location: Roselle, NJ
Re:Corned Beef question - Wed, 04/20/11 3:49 AM
0
chewingthefat,
I though you might find this video interesting. It's of a woman using Food Network's Alton Brown's recipe for corned beef. 
  
The ingredient list scrolls by quickly so if anyone wants to copy it down use the "Pause" button on the lower left of the video screen to toggle pause and play.  
 

 
Back in 2009 I posted about how I made pastrami from store bought corned beef. I subsequently made another one from the triangular point of the brisket. I didn't like it because the point contains too much fat. I'm still stuck with one in the freezer but what do you want for $.99/lb.? When I smoke something else I guess I'll throw that on and scrape the meat from the fat and come out with something like pulled smoked corned beef.
 
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Pastrami-Home-Made-Smoked-Steamed-m498824.aspx
<message edited by Food_Fan on Wed, 04/20/11 3:56 AM>

EdSails
  • Total Posts : 3552
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 5/9/2003
  • Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Re:Corned Beef question - Wed, 04/20/11 5:52 AM
0
Food_Fan

Back in 2009 I posted about how I made pastrami from store bought corned beef. I subsequently made another one from the triangular point of the brisket. I didn't like it because the point contains too much fat. I'm still stuck with one in the freezer but what do you want for $.99/lb.? When I smoke something else I guess I'll throw that on and scrape the meat from the fat and come out with something like pulled smoked corned beef.

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Pastrami-Home-Made-Smoked-Steamed-m498824.aspx

 
Just looked at your link. It looks good. I did the same thing with a point cut a few weeks ago but it seemed lean enough. As you said in your post, the homemade pastrami is WAY superior.