Corned Beef question

Post
2011/04/17 11:57:21
I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?
EdSails
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 13:54:25
Not sure how long to corn it since I use the pre-corned ones, but putting a nice rub on and a few hours smoking followed by a half hour in the pressure cooker does wonders. I find a combo of oak and cherry does well in the smoking.
bdtn
Hamburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 14:09:42
after pumping the brisket lay flesh side up then sprinkle with the spice then lay anothe bisket flesh side down on top.
then repeat till vat is full then cover with the rest of the brine then cure for 3-4 days. about a good hand full of spice for every 2 briskets
should do it.
pnwchef
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 14:54:25
Chewy, if you brine and then pepper & smoke then its a pastrami. I was going to corn one in a week or so. You may also want to inject the solution into the brisket..................keep in touch...........
bartl
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 16:33:39
I don't have a copy handy, but when I was living in Amsterdam, we gave the corned beef recipe from the Settlement Cookbook to the local butcher, and he followed it and the corned beef always came out pretty good (although a couple of times it was a bit underpickled, a 1/4"-3/8" dot of gray in the center, so I would extend the brining time by about 10%).
 
Bart
ann peeples
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 16:45:04
I corned a  brisket once. Or rather two or 3. They were each 5-7lbs each. I used at least 5lbs of Penzeys-I happen to like more as then we dont have to spice later.. I even add a bay leaf or 2. I let it rest for 7 days.Absolutely fantastic corned beef-sandwiches included. Customers loved that they didnt have to add anything to the sandwiches. I served them "naked"-add whatever you wanted-swiss cheese, mustard, sauerkraut, thousand island, russian, onions, whatever.
bdtn
Hamburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:01:36
pumping means injecting 10-14 percent  brine into the meat if you dont't inject it it could take up to 2 weeks to cure
depending on thickness on st paddys day we do a whole rear leg (steamship round) pumpit up with 10-15 % of brine let it sit
1 week turning every day then roasting for about 10 hour at 275 its a nice show carving giant corned beef and cheap
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:04:23
chewingthefat

I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?


From Penzey's web site;
Corned Beef Spices salt free
To marinate beef brisket use 3-5 TB. per 5 lbs, along with salt brine

Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:13:06
PNWCHEF

Chewy, if you brine and then pepper & smoke then its a pastrami. I was going to corn one in a week or so. You may also want to inject the solution into the brisket..................keep in touch...........

Bill, is a Pastrami a first and second cut of the brisket, or simply a first cut?
If I corn it and smoke it is it pastrami or corned beef??

Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:34:10
CTF, pastrami is usually first cut, or flat. At least, it is when talking about the pastrami normally available in delicatessens.
edwmax
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:51:27
chewingthefat

I am going to corn full cut beef briskets, smoke them and hopefully add a popular item to my menu. I bought 5 lbs of Penzys corning spices, my questions are how much spice for a 10-12 lb brisket, how long is the optimum corning process?

I'm not sure what you have;  ... Looks like you may have spices only; no salt cure.   Penzys direction indicate 3 to 5 TBs per 5 lbs meat and mixed into the brine.    ... The brine mixture will have sodium nitrite and/or sodium nitrate and salt.   Use these exactly per manufacture's instructions and required curing time.    ... Homemade cures may have saltpeter; but this is no long used in commercial cures.   .... Morton Tender Quick (used for corned beef); Prague Powder (pink salt & different mixes available); & Insta Cure are the commercial cures.    .... Without the nitrite, nitrate or saltpeter your corned beef will have a gray color ( not red); but will still be good.  Some people like it this way.
 
In the older days (before refrigeration) the brine was so strong the meat would cure in 3 or 4 days.   Most of today's recipes call for 7 to 10 days with the meat and mixture stored in the cooler or Frig.   So curing time depends on the strength of the brine solution.
 
This is a good reference to start with:   http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/sodium-nitrate.html        ... i have found recipes for homemade cures on the web.   ... And there are many recipes for corning beef.   
 
Hope this helps, but I can't answer you question from the info given.    ... nitrite, nitrate or saltpeter is dangerous if too much is used; and is why Cures are available for general use pre-mixed with salt.
post edited by edwmax - 2011/04/17 17:53:51
EdSails
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 17:58:10
Every St. Paddy's Day week when they have the CB's on sale I buy a bunch. This year they were 99 cents/lb. for point cut. Oddly enough, the ones I chose were flat and rectangular so maybe I'm missing the point?  Takes the wait out of brining, although I do have the Penzey's corning spice pack here if I ever get ultra-ambitious. I think I have around 5 left to keep me in pastrami heaven for a while. 
This is more or less what I followed---
 
http://playingwithfireand.../05/beef-pastrami.html
 
I used the version #3. I used basically the rub shown except added Juniper Berries from Penzey's and actually threw a tablespoon of that Penzey's Corned Beef Spice into the rub before I gave it a few spins in the spice grinder. Just wanted the peppercorns etc. cracked, not ground. Instead of ground pepper I used both black and white peppercorns. Had thumbs up from a few New Yorkers who I had over for dinner so I take it as a good sign. I've heard too what MH said about the flats being used but I had enough choice (the meat dept. guy wheeled a whole cart of CB's out for me to choose from before he put them out) so my "points" look identical to the flats they were selling for $2.99/lb. With the smoker you have, yours should taste awesome!
pnwchef
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 18:25:04
Hey Chewy, I would think both would fit in your restaurant real well. The pastrami taking on the smoked brisket, boiling another brisket for Corned beef. Put a smear of Philippe's mustard on either and your in heaven......pnwc
EdSails
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 18:45:12
PNWCHEF

Hey Chewy, I would think both would fit in your restaurant real well. The pastrami taking on the smoked brisket, boiling another brisket for Corned beef. Put a smear of Philippe's mustard on either and your in heaven......pnwc

 
My favorite mustard for pastrami and corned beef is from your neck of the woods, PNWC.
 

It is awesome!
pnwchef
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 18:53:20
Ed, I use the Beavers Hot and sweet.............Great minds.....
planojim
Cheeseburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/17 20:44:03
when making home made cured meats.....bacon, corned beef, sausages, etc....I normally follow Ruhlman's advice and recipes.  Here's his for corned beef:

http://ruhlman.com/2010/03/corned-beef-how-to-cure-your-own.html
 
I normally make 2 briskets at a time.  One I simmer and used for corned beef.  The other I coat in a 1:1 ratio of cracked black pepper and coriander seed.  Smoke it for 4 hours at about 210-240, cover in foil, bake at 200 for about 5 hours till it reaches internal temp of 175.  Uncover, bake till it reaches about 182.
 
ann peeples
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 09:29:08
Absolutely love Beaver Brand mustards!
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 11:54:08
Thanks one and all, I'll let you know how it turns out, hopefully have some pics!
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 11:55:06
Beaver Brand mustards are great.
 
Still looking for their large squeeze bottle of cranberry mustard.... for my mother who lacks sensible taste in food.
 
Their creamed horseradish sauce is quite good.
 
You could die using a like amount of Phillipe's mustard.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 12:02:27
Thinks I learn here: I buy that company's cream-style horseradish under the brand name Inglehoffer. And you can get Beaver cranberry mustard here:
 
http://www.beavertonfoods.com/beaver.php
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 12:15:20
Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.
 
http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 12:47:07
 Thank you for the mustard link.
 
As for Phillipe's Original...  The description of the mustard is mild.
 
 
Warning about the article...  Prices are up and the mustard is now in squeeze bottles... but the parking is still free.
 
It's absolutely worth the trip.  
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 12:50:26
Well, considering that it's unlikely I'll ever get to california before an earthquake slides it into the Pacific ... .
pnwchef
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 13:00:06
Beaver does make Cranberry Mustard, and if someone was to eat that kind of mustard, you would figure that person would be located in LA... Just Sayin'
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 13:14:22
Hey!  My mother is from New York.
 
Interesting to me is that Phillipe's does not serve corned beef.
 
Guess they don't have room for the lines that would form out the door.
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 13:24:34
Michael Hoffman

Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/

If you go to Penzy's, you can buy the hot mustard powder they use to make their mustard, really easy to make this atomic stuff Michael, it will clear your sinuses, or call them, Philippe's, they will ship you a bottle!

Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 14:29:22
I checked out their website -- Phillipe's. It can be ordered there.
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 14:40:27
It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.
 
  $125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING
 
 
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 14:42:59
mar52

It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.

$125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING



WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a deal.
pnwchef
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 16:20:30
mar52

It (The Phillipe's Original Mustard) can also be ordered from me.

$125 per jar.  FREE SHIPPING



I'll take 2 pork, 2 Roast Beef, 2 lamb sandwiches and a Jar of mustard  ........
EdSails
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 17:40:03
Michael Hoffman

Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/

 
Don't listen to her though.....take it from me. 
Order the cute baby animal.
ann peeples
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 17:58:01
Okay-not that I am jealous-You dont ever answer my obvious  answers, ctf.Okay-wont post my cooking techs. So sorry.
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 18:09:41
annpeeples

Okay-not that I am jealous-You dont ever answer my obvious  answers, ctf.Okay-wont post my cooking techs. So sorry.

??? what do you mean ann?

Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 18:14:23
EdSails

Michael Hoffman

Now I know that if I'm ever in California again I am abso------lutely going to have to go to Phillipe.

http://www.thedeliciouslife.com/philippe-original-mustard-made-me-hot/


Don't listen to her though.....take it from me. 
Order the cute baby animal.

Oh, I would. I love good cute baby animal.

Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/18 18:16:30
annpeeples

I corned a  brisket once. Or rather two or 3. They were each 5-7lbs each. I used at least 5lbs of Penzeys-I happen to like more as then we dont have to spice later.. I even add a bay leaf or 2. I let it rest for 7 days.Absolutely fantastic corned beef-sandwiches included. Customers loved that they didnt have to add anything to the sandwiches. I served them "naked"-add whatever you wanted-swiss cheese, mustard, sauerkraut, thousand island, russian, onions, whatever.

ann, today I got 5 lbs. of Penzy's corned beef seasoning delivered, really I did, I'm going to try your method, 1 first, so if I screw it up, it doesn't cost me much. Will let all know, hopefully pics! Thanks!!
Tom

ann peeples
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/19 05:30:45
Dont worry about my replies-menopause.
UncleVic
Sirloin
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/19 07:37:24
Chewingthefat... Check out this forum (search corned beef):
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/
david n
Junior Burger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/19 09:54:24
Pastrami is smoked corned beef.
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/19 12:00:12
UncleVic

Chewingthefat... Check out this forum (search corned beef):
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/

UncleVic, great resource, thanks!

Food_Fan
Cheeseburger
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/20 03:49:23
chewingthefat,
I though you might find this video interesting. It's of a woman using Food Network's Alton Brown's recipe for corned beef. 
  
The ingredient list scrolls by quickly so if anyone wants to copy it down use the "Pause" button on the lower left of the video screen to toggle pause and play.  
 

 
Back in 2009 I posted about how I made pastrami from store bought corned beef. I subsequently made another one from the triangular point of the brisket. I didn't like it because the point contains too much fat. I'm still stuck with one in the freezer but what do you want for $.99/lb.? When I smoke something else I guess I'll throw that on and scrape the meat from the fat and come out with something like pulled smoked corned beef.
 
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Pastrami-Home-Made-Smoked-Steamed-m498824.aspx
post edited by Food_Fan - 2011/04/20 03:56:06
EdSails
Filet Mignon
Re:Corned Beef question 2011/04/20 05:52:22
Food_Fan
Back in 2009 I posted about how I made pastrami from store bought corned beef. I subsequently made another one from the triangular point of the brisket. I didn't like it because the point contains too much fat. I'm still stuck with one in the freezer but what do you want for $.99/lb.? When I smoke something else I guess I'll throw that on and scrape the meat from the fat and come out with something like pulled smoked corned beef.

http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Pastrami-Home-Made-Smoked-Steamed-m498824.aspx

 
Just looked at your link. It looks good. I did the same thing with a point cut a few weeks ago but it seemed lean enough. As you said in your post, the homemade pastrami is WAY superior.