Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter

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DawnT
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Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Sun, 05/8/11 5:18 PM
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What do you recall as your favorite platter? For me, this was a weekend treat that I used to order when I was a kid with my grandfather and looked forward to all week. He usually bought me half pound of lox wings to go whenever he bought his sliced pumpernickle during the week and a couple of salt bagels. It's hard to find a good bagel anymore and the few remaining real delis are quite a few miles away. Still there is no loss of places that still make a lox platter using lousy bagels and that flavorless, pasty, pink mush that passes as nova nowadays around here.
 
Of days past, that platter usually had enough to make the bagel and order another bagel to make another and still have veggies and garnish left over in most good delis.
 
 
 

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Sun, 05/8/11 8:58 PM
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I agree. Last time I got one, at Factor's Deli in LA, it was a disappointment. These days, seems like we are better off buying our own stuff and making it. 

tiki
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 1:59 PM
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 Brooklyn Bagel Works!!!--right down the street from my daughters place in Brooklyn--GREAT bagels and shmears and wonderful lox!! Love the place---when they fly out they stop and get me a dozen on the way to the airport1 what a great daughter!
 

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 3:01 PM
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Funny, Bagels and lox to me has always been something you had at home. Sunday runs to White's or Glick's delicatessens in New Haven were standard for the lox, whitefish, sable, kishka, corned beef, pastrami, half sour pickles, chopped herring, cole slaw and potato salad. And of course there was the stop for rye bread and bagels from Olmer's or maybe Lender's (Yes, there was a real Lender's, and they made real bagels) for their bagels. And the bialys came from Taicotsky's.
 
I cannot ever recall having any of that anywhere but at home, or at least at someone else's home.

brisketboy
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 3:37 PM
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Oh Michael, what memories you invoke. Grew up on the north side of Chicago right around the corner from Kaufman's Bagel Bakery and an authentic Jewish deli. My dad would bring home lox, bagels, schmalz herring, and the best rye ever. Sadly the days of the Jewish deli or deli of any kind I believe are numbered. Folks just don't want to eat that way I guess. Too many food police I suspect. What would I give for some real chopped liver.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 3:49 PM
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I forgot the chopped liver. That ws always brought home, too.

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 5:02 PM
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You're talking about the stuff of my dreams!
 
When my grandfather was alive he'd come to our house every Sunday morning with lox, whitefish chubs, codfish, cream cheese and bagels.  In those days the only bagels were plain, onion, egg (who eats those?) and bialys.  Today's bagels taste nothing like those of  my youth.  
 
When my grandfather brought lox wings one Sunday and watched me eat them they became a regular Sunday treat for me.
 
Now I'll order a lox and bagel meal at a delicatessen if I'm not ordering chopped liver on rye.  Lox and bagels is just not the same if I make it at home.
 
 
 

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 5:08 PM
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 5:30 PM
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Are egg bagels anything like egg matzos, aside from being chewy? Those I like.

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 6:24 PM
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Michael Hoffman


Are egg bagels anything like egg matzos, aside from being chewy? Those I like.

 
Michael, It's been an awful long time but If I remember, egg bagels are really not "crusty" and they are less chewy than a typical water bagel. I do remember I never liked them when I grew up in NYC.

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 6:28 PM
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When I was 21 and living in NYC, I started dating a girl whose father owned a large smoked fish company in Brooklyn. The best part of dating her was being invited over to her house on Sunday mornings and eating all the Nova and Sturgeon I could handle. I should have married that girl!

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 7:20 PM
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Growing up, we used to go to the Fairfax area in Los Angeles for that. Lox, whitefish and sable. Slowly all the delis disappeared from there except for Canters and that was always my least favorite place. My favorite was the Bagel Deli, where I first had the amazing combination sandwich (I think it was the "Joey Bishop") of pastrami and chopped liver. We'd get the fish there and then get bagels on Sunday from a friend's parents who owned the Brooklyn Bagel Bakery on Alvarado near Sunset. Every once in a while a few of us kids would go down there on a Sunday and get to pick bagels as they came out of the ovens. I always went for the bialys. Back home, we'd have fish  with bagels sunday evenings.......yum!

DawnT
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 7:41 PM
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Some of you touched on some good points. The lox wings were great poor man's lox. It took a little work to cut out the meat, but very well worth it.
 
 Unfortunately, authentic bagels are not only a rarity now, most folks after nearly 40 years of being exposed to these long, shelf-life, bready things called bagels wouldn't care for them. Several years ago, I returned back from Palm Beach early in the morning and stopped in Deerfield Beach to pick up a couple of dozen bagels and bialys for my parents and myself. I brought some, still very fresh to work that same morning and most of the folks thought that something was wrong with them b/c they didn't taste anything like grocery store bagels and didn't care for these bagels.
 
The line between lox and nova has been blurred nowadays. Even looking on the web, what's called nova now doesn't look like the ruby red slices with a light smoked taste and firm texture that used to be served as nova years ago in delis. I don't think it's even cold smoked anymore and just regular salmon cured with smoke flavoring. Even the name no longer means anything. How has Nova become made from Alaskan salmon? They must be very well traveled. No doubt farm raised contributes to the degradation of quality as well.
 
Gee this has me jonesing for some roll mops or herring in wine sauce and onions and some half sours. I guess some raisin pumpernickle would be pushing it.

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 8:11 PM
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Herring in wine sauce sounds really good right now. I haven't had any for.....ummm, 3 weeks now!

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 8:27 PM
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That reminds me. I've got Acme (brand) herring with onions in cream sauce in the fridge. And, A friend brought me an incredible home baked rye bread today. That's going to be dinner for me tonight. I'm headed downstairs, right now! 

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 8:59 PM
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Ed, my family used to go to The Bagel.  That was where a waitress quit after taking our order.
 
We waited and we waited and we finally ended up at Canter's.  
 
The Bagel Delicatessen was great.

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 9:00 PM
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I forgot to comment on the egg bagels.  They were yellow, softer and not good at all.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 9:04 PM
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I guess I've never heard of egg bagels.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 9:07 PM
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This whole thing had me leaning over the kitchen sink earlier eating creamed herring and onions from the jar.

mayor al
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 9:30 PM
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A week ago this morning, we enjoyed a lunch at SHAPIRO'S Deli in Indianapolis. This is as close a Jewish Deli as you can find in the Midwest, I believe. 
 
 Janet had a fine Reuben while I opted for the Bagel (Onion) toasted , with Cream Cheese, a Pile of Smoked Salmon and some red onion, Tomato slices and Capers and Garlic Olives sprinkled on top.  I haven't enjoyed this treat for years, so it was a fine example of foods that I have missed !

acer2x
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Mon, 05/9/11 9:33 PM
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Egg bagels were popular in Philly until the water(boiled then baked) bagels arrived.
 
I spent many  late Saturday nights getting fresh baked bagels and bialys at Brooklyn Bagels on Bustleton Avenue in Philly and then going next door to Abe's Appetizers for hand sliced nova,sable, whitefish salad, muenster & imported swiss cheese for Sunday morning brunch.

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 1:08 AM
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Michael Hoffman


This whole thing had me leaning over the kitchen sink earlier eating creamed herring and onions from the jar.

Welcome to my world.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 2:23 AM
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EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 1:51 PM
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mar52


Ed, my family used to go to The Bagel.  That was where a waitress quit after taking our order.

We waited and we waited and we finally ended up at Canter's.  

The Bagel Delicatessen was great.

 
That whole area has changed so much. The southern part of Fairfax, where the Bagel used to be, is now "Little Ethiopia". I was at the northern part a few months ago and almost all the delis are gone except for Canter's. The felafel places that I ate at a lot also are both gone, as well as the fish market. The bakeries, Diamond and Schwartz, are still there, but what good are bakery items except to wash down fatty, delicious pastrami and corned beef. 
Who knows, Mar, maybe we ran into each other in passing there when we were kids?

brisketboy
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 2:52 PM
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I got so frustrated some years back and tried to make my own version of lox by putting two salmon fillets between lots of salt and sprigs of dill, wrapped them and put them in the fridge for three days. They were surprisingly good but still not the same. My kingdom for a Jewish deli. Unfortunately not in Austin.

MellowRoast
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 3:37 PM
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I wish I could get some chopped liver around here.

ann peeples
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 3:48 PM
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I have got an easy recipe for a good chopped liver, Mellow.Let me know if you want it.

Greymo
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 3:49 PM
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Weird as this sounds,  I had my  best restaurant  lox and bagel platter at  a Hilton Hotel in Ocean City, MD.  a few months ago.  Ordinarily, I do not eat in hotel dining rooms but this was  a breakfast package deal.  I ordered  the  lox and bagel platter and told the waiter  that I did not want any  onions on it.  (allergic to raw onions).  When he  brought out  my platter, I could not believe it.  I think they  served it on a  charger for there to be enough room for everything.  On it  was an "everything" bagel  (and  a great one) ,  a huge serving  of  delicious  lox,  and  three lettuce cups.  One  was filled with  really  nice tomato slices; another was filled with chopped eggs and the thrid  had  a huge mound of  capers!  I think I spent nearly one hour eating it..................the waiter even returned with another  warm bagel !

ann peeples
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 3:56 PM
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Sounds fantastic, Gerymo.Gotta have the chopped eggs-although I mix them in my chopped liver. I had to make a lox platter for my bosses friends funeral. He was pleased with my presentation-plenty of lox, cream cheese( no flavored stuff here) onions, tomatoes and capers.We made our own bagels in my bakery( not boiled, but pretty damn good) and I made a batch of my liver. Basically,chicken livers, tons of onions, butter, sherry and mixed with chopped eggs and saltines.

brisketboy
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 4:08 PM
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STOP you guys!

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 4:55 PM
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If it's not made with schmaltz it's not chopped liver.

Greymo
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 5:01 PM
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Now,  you sound like my grandmother!

chef marty
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 6:25 PM
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A few decades ago a very fortunate business venture left me with a lot of Russian Caviar. Breakfast most days was a caviar omelet or a toasted buttered English muffin liberally adorned with the stuff. I was like a drug dealer- selling enough to cover the costs of my own needs and sharing with friends and fellow chefs.
 
Family Thanksgiving that year was at my brother's in Burlington, Vt.- which happened to have one of the great non-NY bagel bakeries then. After a bit of trading with some friends in the wholesale seafood business, I arrived in Vt with a two kilo tin of caviar, two sides of smoked Scottish salmon, two sides of authentic NY lox, one side of NY style nova, six lbs of smoked sturgeon, some smoked whitefish, matjes herring, herring in cream sauce, and a few assorted fish salads. I went to local sources for the bagels, rye and pumpernickle breads, fresh cream cheese, veggies, apple cider, fruit pies and of course Ben and Jerry's ice cream (nothing succeeds like excess).   Brunch began early and lasted that whole Wednesday before turkey day.
 
A quarter of a century later, I still consider sharing that time and those goodies with my happy loving family (and every day miss those who are no longer with us) as one of the greatest days and warmest memories of my life.
 
 

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 6:29 PM
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And a very delicious memory it must be.

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 7:44 PM
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brisketboy


I got so frustrated some years back and tried to make my own version of lox by putting two salmon fillets between lots of salt and sprigs of dill, wrapped them and put them in the fridge for three days. They were surprisingly good but still not the same. My kingdom for a Jewish deli. Unfortunately not in Austin.

 
You made "grav lax". My son lives in Austin. I'll ask him about a deli and report back.

MellowRoast
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 9:28 PM
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annpeeples


I have got an easy recipe for a good chopped liver, Mellow.Let me know if you want it.

Thank you, Ann, if you say it's easy, I'd be honored.  (Also, I wonder if you'd part with your tartar sauce recipe.)
<message edited by MellowRoast on Wed, 05/11/11 6:38 AM>

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Tue, 05/10/11 11:54 PM
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@brisketboy: In Austin, my son suggests either Manny Manhattans or, Newrks.
He say's, neither of them are really any good, though.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 12:31 AM
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Ah, I remember a bar on Congress in downtown Austin called The Manhattan Lounge. Probably not the same place. Lots of good fights there.

DawnT
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 1:33 AM
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Michael Hoffman


If it's not made with schmaltz it's not chopped liver.

 
Well Michael, you went and said it.
 
 I started to write that earlier, but thought it might hurt  Ann's feelings. Butter can hold it's own to a degree. Besides, I rarely ever include that in a printed recipe as it's one of those things that's relegated to a near trade secret deli status and one of those non-pc things that are difficult to rationalize with many goyim how it makes the quintessential difference in some recipes. I know many others feel the same way and maybe Ann too. Just one of those things that you don't talk about much like using MSG or lard in a recipe. It makes it taste good, but if you actually reveal it, people get weird on you and best left unsaid. I hope Chewey is reading this and realizes I let the cat out of the bag.
 
I haven't done it for ages, but mine uses half calves liver and half chicken liver. Otherwise mine is much the same except that I don't use sherry or a cracker extender either. Schmaltz makes the difference though. 
 
Damnit Michael, now I'm jonesing for some gribenes. Thanks a lot @ 1:30 in the morning! 


Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 2:53 AM
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I've not had any gribenes in at least ten years. But I do have some schmaltz in the refrigerator, and I shall now go spread some on a slice of rye to eat before heading for bed.

Twinwillow
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 9:55 AM
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Oy vey. You're all driving me crazy. Please, I'm trying to start a diet here!

brisketboy
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 10:27 AM
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Thanks Twinwillow, unfortunately as with many starting ventures success was it's own worst enemy. When Manny Hattan's first opened up they were a passable deli mimicing the NY style. They had good pastrami, corned beef sandwiches excellent half-sours and lox and bagels. They have of late sucumbed to the ever enroaching yuppydom and redid their business model and the NY deli is no more. All the sandwiches are now named for local celebs and I suspect they may be closing their doors soon. Damn shame too.

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 12:21 PM
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When I made matzo ball soup last month I used schmaltz. Everyone was saying how good they were. I didn't mention about the schmaltz, didn't want to weird out the younger generation too much. 

ann peeples
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 12:23 PM
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No hurt feelings-my recipe does call for schmaltz, but I have yet to find it. So I substituted butter, which works quite well. I am sure it would be even better with schmaltz.

MellowRoast
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 12:25 PM
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If you can't get your hands on any schmaltz, can you use schmaltz liquor?

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 1:02 PM
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Ann,
I got myself scmaltz at a kosher deli. It comes in a plastic tub. You might try that.
Ed

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 1:07 PM
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Think I see some rendering in my future.
 
Ed, do you think Jerry's has it?  You could save me a phone call or walk across the street.
 
The phone call would probably be useless.

MellowRoast
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 1:19 PM
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Ann, like Paula Deen, I'm absolutely fine with butter. 

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 1:33 PM
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 I just noticed the use of lard and chopped liver in the same sentence.
 
OMG!

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 2:07 PM
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mar52


Think I see some rendering in my future.

Ed, do you think Jerry's has it?  You could save me a phone call or walk across the street.

The phone call would probably be useless.

 
I looked on their website but they don't show anything in the actual deli section. If you're close I would certainly try------even if they don't sell it in the pre-made containers like I got they should have some they could sell you in a small pint container. Other than that, I got mine at a Kosher deli, so you might want to try some of the Kosher deli/meat markets up on Pico west of La Cienega. 

ann peeples
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 2:16 PM
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Thanks, Ed-would love to make it with scmaltz-will explore our Jewish delis here!

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 2:38 PM
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Have you shopped in those stores on Pico?  You could get rammed to death by a shopping cart.
 
When I'm ready to gehakte I'll give it a go.

Michael Hoffman
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 2:56 PM
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Not gonna say it. Nope. Not gonna.

DawnT
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 3:19 PM
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I can't see the reason to buy it. Used to be a butcher would give you the fat they pulled off the butts of chickens. I doubt that now though. Rendering the fat with some chopped onion and a little s&p in a frying pan is basically all it is until the fat is rendered and the onions get brown. When you do this with chicken skin, you also get Gribenes and a fat old man nearby swiping it off the paper towel as fast as you can make them. It doesn't even have to be that. One place that I worked for, the morning ritual was making the chicken stock. We used chicken backs in bulk bags that each would get 4 whacks with a cleaver b4 thrown in the pot to break the bones. In the walk-in we kept a bag of what we called vegetable trash. Onion ends and pieces, celery leaves and stalk trimmings,and carrot peelings. That all went into the pot along with a handfull of peppercorns. All of that was later strained. The fat from the top was ladled out and put in the walk-in. That rendered fat from the stock was used like schmaltz. Whole point is the smoothing characteristics of chicken fat. Whenever we did whole chickens for chicken salad we did the same.

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 3:23 PM
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Now that's an interesting idea.  I could make a pot of chicken soup, skim the fat and then fry up some onions.
 
Great idea!

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 5:25 PM
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mar52


Have you shopped in those stores on Pico?  You could get rammed to death by a shopping cart.

When I'm ready to gehakte I'll give it a go.

 
Oh yeah......hate to say it, but no worse than shopping in Super A Foods (Persian) or Marukai (Japanese). You need hard boots that can't get run over and a sign that says "DON'T HIT ME". 

EdSails
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 5:25 PM
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DawnT
 
The fat from the top was ladled out and put in the walk-in. That rendered fat from the stock was used like schmaltz. Whole point is the smoothing characteristics of chicken fat. Whenever we did whole chickens for chicken salad we did the same. 
 
 
Leftover boiled fat is not schmaltz. Schmaltz is rendered, slow fried with the onions. You need a lot of skin and fat to do it. I think I'm going to just buy it--------I don't have a dozen chicken's worth of fat and skin to make schmaltz. 

<message edited by EdSails on Wed, 05/11/11 6:12 PM>

Trask
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 6:10 PM
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Twinwillow


When I was 21 and living in NYC, I started dating a girl whose father owned a large smoked fish company in Brooklyn. The best part of dating her was being invited over to her house on Sunday mornings and eating all the Nova and Sturgeon I could handle. I should have married that girl!

 
If that was Montrose Fish Market, my grandfather worked there (50's).  & yes, the lox, sable, etc. were good & plentiful !!


DawnT
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 6:57 PM
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Ed, re-read my post. I didn't say that the skimmings were schmaltz. In fact I posted the proper way I used to make schmaltz. In the restaurant I worked the skimmings were used LIKE schmaltz for the texture. It was used in the chopped liver and some salads mixed with mayo. The taste is neutral and the effect is the same in circumstances where you need that texture. If you're looking for schmaltz for the taste or as a spread, that's an entirely different situation where the carmilization flavor comes into the picture and perhaps other enhancements such as garlic are added.
 
The skimmings were typically a foodservice/restaurant/deli thing. Foodservice uses some techniques that are not employed in home cooking. In fact there are many other tricks of the trade that would be used in deli preparation that you would probably take issue with as well and you're not going to see in any cookbook.
 
Please carefully read a posting before you decide to post one of your authoritive comments.  

mar52
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Re:Perfect Lox and Bagel Platter - Wed, 05/11/11 8:21 PM
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Rethinking.  Buying is always easier.

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