Hand Cut Lox

Lox and bagels with cream cheese is one of my favorite foods. I prefer the less salty nova. One thing I could never understand is the reasoning for the higher price of lox that's hand cut. Why the $1 to $2 surcharge for a sandwich with hand cut lox? Worse yet, when sold by the pound, hand cut lox can be up to $10 more than machine cut. Why the surcharge for the use of a sharp knife? Is this part of a deli labor contract. Is hand cut lox higher quality or fresher? Is it because it can be cut thinner? Was it better schooled or is this a food scam? I don't see a difference in taste.

well clothier, lox is serious business.

You are right, although I am sure there are less scruplous places out there that dont give you the belly. You should be able to tell, but sometimes they really do charge you for that sharp knife and the ooh and ahh of watching them cut it in front of you.

Also, technically nova and lox are different. But the terms have become interchangeable in many places.

In Chicago, belly was always saltier than nova and less expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by clothier

Right on the lox and nova. Love lox. Like Nova.

I'm the other way around - lox is over-salty to my taste (but will do in a pinch, better than none!), can't get enough Nova, especially on a nice poppy or sesame bagel w/ cream cheese, thinly-sliced red onion and a couple of capers. Alternative service is a Rhodes canapé special - thinly-sliced buttered brown bread, salmon, finely chopped red onion & hard-boiled egg, a few capers, cracked black pepper, spritz of lemon

Rhodes, your canape special is my favorite.....sometimes I replace the brown bread with warm buttered brioche.

And clothier, where did you say you were taking me to lunch today???

When I was in Amsterdam and Paris, lox is eaten on small pieces of rye bread. I've had lox on a toasted english muffin or Lithuanian rye when I'm not in the mood for a bagel. I enjoy lox with capers and a thin slice of tomato and onion. Gotta have chive cream cheese. A lox & onion or lox & cream cheese omlet is a breakfast favorite, besides Kewpee's cheeseburgers.

quote:

Originally posted by clothier

quote:

Originally posted by lleechef

Rhodes, your canape special is my favorite.....sometimes I replace the brown bread with warm buttered brioche.

And clothier, where did you say you were taking me to lunch today???

Anywhere you want to go.

I was thinking of Steve's Deli, over by Maple. They have hand sliced
lox, and the sour cream chocolate chip cake is almost as good as my mom's.

Oh, and great egg salad.

Pick me up in two hours. I gotta go out and get a pedicure......

quote:

Originally posted by clothier

go with the red polish this time, ok?

The purple was nice, but I'm such a tradionialist.

I was thinking of a French pedicure but if you want red........sigh......(rolling the eyes back).....well, OK. Pick me up at noon. Geeze, you guys are SO demanding!!

I though I was getting fitted for the chaps, bib and crop after lunch! Hey! You promised!

ROFL you two

NOT ME!

Why don't you guys take this crap offline ?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by clothier

But you were entertained, though, right?

I would say annoyed would be the more appropriate word. But then, who am I to question ? I'm sure people don't want to read this either.

What's left to say ? I said I was annoyed .... that's it. Obviously I can't stop you from posting what you wish to post. I expressed my feelings about it ... end of story !

quote:

Originally posted by clothier

I can only speak for the places here in Detroit that do hand cut, and the reason it is more is because you are getting lox from the belly, and not as much from the sides and filets. The belly has more fat, and should be tastier.

Look at that. Real question, real answer, no fluff.
I must be feeling ill.

So to keep this on topic..(actually i am just jealous that clothier does not come on to me)..
but i got some nova and lox yesterday...from Crown in hartford Ct. Excellent all around...I was gonna wait till I got home, but it called to me from the backseat so i ate it on the way to Boston. Unadulterated and simple. Sometimes the best. Even when flying down the higway at 85 mph.

Do i have to seperate you two? Nothing a good spanking wont fix. oops. is that too inappropriate?

Renfrew, I also experience times where the lox never gets to see the bagel. I'll take a slice and wrap it around some cream cheese. We don't get good bagels in this neck of the woods. Most are doughy and baked. I prefer boiled.

I'm not footing the bill for any of this tawdry business. Besides, I never did get my sparkly Patsy Cline outfit.

Lone Star, I never got the promised chaps, either. Men.......

quote:

Originally posted by chicagostyledog

Renfrew, I also experience times where the lox never gets to see the bagel. I'll take a slice and wrap it around some cream cheese. We don't get good bagels in this neck of the woods. Most are doughy and baked. I prefer boiled.

Any fans of Zabar's out there? Nothing like a morning on the Upper West Side fighting the crowds for sliced Nova, and then heading next door to H&H for fresh bagels, all the while with visitors who were either amazed, or wondered what all the fuss was about.

All this talk of lox is getting to me!! Havent seen any at all since the move to OK and i REALLY miss a bagal with belly, cream cheese onion tomato and capers!!!!!AARRGG!

quote:

Originally posted by chicagostyledog

Renfrew, I also experience times where the lox never gets to see the bagel. I'll take a slice and wrap it around some cream cheese. We don't get good bagels in this neck of the woods. Most are doughy and baked. I prefer boiled.

Chicago.. try getting a good bagel in KY..oy

I'm always searching for the finest boiled bagels. Most bagel chains bake their bagels. To make things worse, their products can't be eaten with lox and cream cheese; like the fruity, chocolaty, cheesy bagels. They're a few deli's in Milwaukee that sell good bagels, but I usually go back to Skokie & Lincolnwood, my old stomping ground, for the real thing.

quote:

Originally posted by lleechef

Rhodes, your canape special is my favorite.....sometimes I replace the brown bread with warm buttered brioche.
....

Mmmmm, warm buttered brioche (insert Homer Simpson drooling sounds....)

It lox like lutefisk will nova darken our doors again........

quote:

Originally posted by redtressed

It lox like lutefisk will nova darken our doors again........

Thanks redtressed. I knew there had to be a payoff at the end of all that drivel...

We too were always getting our bagels from Kaufmans or NY Bagel & Bialy, but as of late we do Bagel Country in Skokie. It's at the corner of Niles Center & Skokie Blvd (Yep, in the same little shopping center where Polk Brothers was a zillion years ago...). The bagels there are bigger and tastier than at the other joints...But beware!! No Saturday hours (except during winter when they open after sundown).

Here's the skinny on Nova and belly lox. The belly lox comes from the bottom of the fillet. The Nova from the loin. By the way, the word Nova comes from Nova Scotia, where much of the salmon that was cold-smoked (made into lox) came from.

If you were to steak a salmon you would see the belly portion as the narrowest part down to the little ends on either side of the opening below the backbone It is the fattiest part of the salmon, and for many people it is the tastiest. Because this is the area where poisons such as mercury happen to congregate in a salmon, those of us to fish for salmon get rid of this section, whether we fillet our fish or cut it into steaks.

And this is why I always choose Nova when buying my lox -- I hate mercury with my cream cheese.

Thank you Michael---didnt know that!

THe best palce for all smoked fishes is Russ & Daughters on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. I used to work down on JOhn Street and once in awhile, I'd bring a cooler bag and go there on my way home. Whitefish, Sable, nova, belly lox. smoked salmon- yum yum
yum.

www.russanddaughters.com

Great topic....in fact a short while ago for dinner I had Nova on a bagel ....when you want a quick fix and don't want to pay a "million dollars"....CostCo's Nova fits the bill perfectly....with butter (lactose intolerant)...tomatoes...onions.....yum!!

Bought a package of Nova at Costco last week and was surprised they'd raised their price from $9.99 to $11.99 a lb....still a great deal for a pound of basically good fish....of course if you want to spend a million dollars...."ZABARS" fish is second to none.....
IMHO

LaurieGee52

I was in NYC yesterday and found very reasonably priced nova and other smoked salmon at Garden of Eden Gourmet on 23rd Street just east of Seventh. House nova was only $17/lb.

Best find of the day was Sables on Second between 77 and 78. www.sablesmokedfish.com Run by a former Zabar's employee, the nova was melt in your mouth smooth. Lots of salads and other delicacies, wish there was a place like this in my neighborhood.

Great lox talk here. Grandfather used to work at Montrose Fish Market in Brooklyn. He made smoked fish and lox and always had a good supply in his refrigerator. We got spoiled on all this luxury. Now I'm catching my own fish in the PNW and making my own delicacies like smoked salmon, pickled salmon, lox, even caviar. One thing I have noticed is that the lox bought out here is smoked where what I always had in NY did not have the noticeable smoke smell or taste. I like smoked fish but prefer my lox without the smoke.

quote:

Originally posted by Trask

Great lox talk here. Grandfather used to work at Montrose Fish Market in Brooklyn. He made smoked fish and lox and always had a good supply in his refrigerator. We got spoiled on all this luxury. Now I'm catching my own fish in the PNW and making my own delicacies like smoked salmon, pickled salmon, lox, even caviar. One thing I have noticed is that the lox bought out here is smoked where what I always had in NY did not have the noticeable smoke smell or taste. I like smoked fish but prefer my lox without the smoke.

Lox -- Nova, belly -- is supposed to be cold-smoked. That's why it does not have a smoke smell or taste. To cold-smoke you need to have a smoking box and a way to transfer the smoke a long-enough distance away so that it cools before it gets to the chamber where you have the salmon. This might help:

http://www.kasilofseafoods.com/Smoking/cold-smoked-lox.htm

Michael, I've seen this site a couple of years ago and like he states the cold smoke process he uses is one of many methods. I also have a large cold smoker unit but when I make lox I don't smoke it at all. Just hard salt it for at least several weeks and then soak it out. There is, or at least was, a noticeable difference between what is available here and in NY in the 50's and 60's when I remember it best. A deli owner in Monticello, NY told me the way they made it was just storing it in salt and rinsing for hours to get the desired saltiness and softness. If you soak it longer it becomes almost spreadable and not very salty. I remember asking my grandfather about how it was made and long it was smoked and he mentioned that it spent very little, if any, time being smoked. I think many people think of lox as being smoked salmon which some is to more extent than others. I think marketing chooses to refer to it all as "smoked" even if you walk it through the smokehouse for a few seconds. If it isn't "smoked", then what? Raw? The lox market would suffer. In any case, I'll take the old NY style without the stronger smoke flavor but wouldn't turn down either.

Well, when I was growing up in Connecticut all the lox I knew about was cold-smoked. My father was in the wholesale food business, and among other things that he sold to restaurants, hotels, markets and delicatessens was lox. I used to pick it up for delivery from the company that cold-smoked it. Frankly, I can't ever recall lox having a smoke flavor or aroma. Cold-smoking -- something I can't do properly, by the way, no matter how many times I've tried -- is what gives lox that special texture and mouth-feel that makes it so very wonderful.

I've had some cold smoked salmon (not lox) and it is ok but nothing I would have the patience to make. It takes up to several days. 10 to 12 hours kippering is enough for me. The commercial lox from various places in Alaska, Washington and Oregon all had the noticable smokiness that did not exist in what you describe or I remember. I know I can get similar results to what you describe by hard salting for several weeks and soaking until very soft and slicing very thin. I have commercially fished salmon in the 70's but now sport fish them near home. Some is eaten fresh and some smoked (kippered) but the rest goes in the freezer and then thawed and packed in salt for making lox and some into our favorite pickled lox with lots of onions. Have you tried lox & scrambled eggs? A common menu item in NY & NJ.

I fish for salmon in the Great Lakes about 20 times a year. I've not fished Alaska, Washington or Oregon in eight years. I'll smoke some each year, but I buy my lox.
In fact, I'm almost out of salmon now. Come April I'll be heading up to Lake Ontario for some kings and coho. We're fishing steelhead now. As to lox and eggs, you bet. Actually, it's lox and onions and eggs for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

I fish for salmon in the Great Lakes about 20 times a year. I've not fished Alaska, Washington or Oregon in eight years. I'll smoke some each year, but I buy my lox.
In fact, I'm almost out of salmon now. Come April I'll be heading up to Lake Ontario for some kings and coho. We're fishing steelhead now. As to lox and eggs, you bet. Actually, it's lox and onions and eggs for me.

Michael,
Lots of boats on the rivers here now. The rains let up and the steelheaders in their drift boats are taking advantage of the good colored waters in spite of the cold east winds. I prefer the bay and ocean. Besides bottom fishing the chinook spring run peaks around May & June and the fall run in October in Tillammok Bay. Silvers during the summer. Although salmon is fun fishing my favorite thing is to bottom fish on a nice ocean - less pressure, crowds, and it's hard to beat the fresh white flesh of the lings & rock fish & occassional halibut. Good luck in April! I'll be out floating about then too. P.S. A great source for fish smoking, etc. is "Smoking Salmon & Trout" by Jack Whelan. He goes into detail on all aspects of equipment and technique and handling your fish.

quote:

Originally posted by Trask

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

I fish for salmon in the Great Lakes about 20 times a year. I've not fished Alaska, Washington or Oregon in eight years. I'll smoke some each year, but I buy my lox.
In fact, I'm almost out of salmon now. Come April I'll be heading up to Lake Ontario for some kings and coho. We're fishing steelhead now. As to lox and eggs, you bet. Actually, it's lox and onions and eggs for me.

Michael,
Lots of boats on the rivers here now. The rains let up and the steelheaders in their drift boats are taking advantage of the good colored waters in spite of the cold east winds. I prefer the bay and ocean. Besides bottom fishing the chinook spring run peaks around May & June and the fall run in October in Tillammok Bay. Silvers during the summer. Although salmon is fun fishing my favorite thing is to bottom fish on a nice ocean - less pressure, crowds, and it's hard to beat the fresh white flesh of the lings & rock fish & occassional halibut. Good luck in April! I'll be out floating about then too. P.S. A great source for fish smoking, etc. is "Smoking Salmon & Trout" by Jack Whelan. He goes into detail on all aspects of equipment and technique and handling your fish.

We wade for steelhead in the streams this time of year, and sometimes in the summer when the summer-run Skamanias show up. When the fish are in the lakes it's a trolling thing. I use a long noodle-rod with two-pound test line when stream fishing for steelies. I've enjoyed floating in the Pacific Northwest, but that's not common in this area.

It is common to drift with the current while bottom fishing. Sometimes use the kicker to hold the spot otherwise it's a trolling show for salmon. I sold my Whaler a few years ago but last year about this time I drove to N Carolina to pick up a used 20'CC and brought it home via Florida. Long trip but nice boat to fish on. T-top and electronic box are great. Where did you fish in Oregon?

The Deschutes, North Umpqua, Clackamas, Salmon and Columbia rivers, and the Pacific out of Astoria.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

The Deschutes, North Umpqua, Clackamas, Salmon and Columbia rivers, and the Pacific out of Astoria.

You covered a good portion of the state. Astoria is a nice place. I'm about 70 miles south of there. Occassionally go up there to sturgeon fish. I fished out of Coos Bay & off the Umpqua at Winchester Bay. A couple of years ago there was an article showing a fly fisherman that caught a 71 pound Chinook on the Rogue.
I notice there are a lot of old posts here and don't even realize I'm responding to messages over a year old. Thanks for being here. I'm in the process of making kielbasa. Just ground the meat and will stuff soon and smoke it tomorrow.

You make your own kielbasa? I am impressed.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

You make your own kielbasa? I am impressed.

I started several years ago with the Kitchen Aide and attachments but eventually got a dedicated grinder and stuffer. Ethnic grandI just finished stuffing a 14 pound batch that I have tied into loops and it will go into the wood burning smoker tomorrow for about 5 or 6 hours. Lots of fresh garlic. Hard to find anything like it from stores. 100% pork shoulder. I make a nice fresh Italian and a cajun boudin also but we're on the wrong page here. If you're interested in pics, I can e-mail you a few fish and sausage ones.