Hot!Chili dog vs. Coney dog ?

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TxGrl
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/02 21:37:57 (permalink)
Well, I don't know how they do it in New England, but as a fifth generation Texan, we call 'em Chili dogs: and the chili has no beans. We lightly toast and butter the buns, I prefer all beef Nathan hot dogs cooked on the grill until split: add mustard, yellow or deli (NEVER ketchup) top with chili, dill pickle rellish, grated cheddar, and chopped onions. That's how great grandma ate 'em, and how we all do in my family, including reunions. I never heard of a coney until a Sonic franchise came to our small country town. ;)
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ConeyDetroit
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/06 22:00:11 (permalink)
I have eaten a lot of coneys and visited well more than a hundred coney island restaurants in the Detroit area for the book Coney Detroit, coming out of Wayne State University Press in April.
 
Detroit and Michigan are the epicenter of the coney nation with hundreds of coney islands and lots of different ways of making them, as well as variations such as the coney taco, the coney pizza and the omelet. (I am not making this up.)
 
These are the essentials of a coney island:
 
A meat sauce (Detroit style) or topping (Flint style) on a hot dog (traditionally with a natural casing) in a bun (should be steamed) topped with minced white onion and yellow mustard.
 
Some will argue about whether the onion should be minced or chopped, machine cut or hand cut, and I have seen it all. A few places will put the mustard and onions on before the coney sauce. There is lots of regional pride and competition over Flint-style vs. Detroit-style coneys, but both are coneys. (We get into all that and even visited the sauce, hot dog and bun factories.)
 
For Coney Detroit, we had a dozen photographers shoot in Detroit, Flint, Jackson, Port Huron, Battle Creek, Traverse City, Ypsilanti, as well as outside of Michigan in Worcester, St. Petersburg and near Las Vegas. They are not just a Michigan thing, of course, but no one does more of them.
 
A coney dog is a distinctive subset of chili dogs. One important distinction: Coney sauce has NO BEANS. We enjoyed a lot of coneys as we did the book, but the real coney story is about the great people, many of them Greek and Albanian, whose families turned this food into a phenomenon in Detroit and Michigan.
 
Joe Grimm
 
#32
Foodbme
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/06 23:20:34 (permalink)
ConeyDetroit

I have eaten a lot of coneys and visited well more than a hundred coney island restaurants in the Detroit area for the book Coney Detroit, coming out of Wayne State University Press in April.

Detroit and Michigan are the epicenter of the coney nation with hundreds of coney islands and lots of different ways of making them, as well as variations such as the coney taco, the coney pizza and the omelet. (I am not making this up.)

These are the essentials of a coney island:

A meat sauce (Detroit style) or topping (Flint style) on a hot dog (traditionally with a natural casing) in a bun (should be steamed) topped with minced white onion and yellow mustard.

Some will argue about whether the onion should be minced or chopped, machine cut or hand cut, and I have seen it all. A few places will put the mustard and onions on before the coney sauce. There is lots of regional pride and competition over Flint-style vs. Detroit-style coneys, but both are coneys. (We get into all that and even visited the sauce, hot dog and bun factories.)

For Coney Detroit, we had a dozen photographers shoot in Detroit, Flint, Jackson, Port Huron, Battle Creek, Traverse City, Ypsilanti, as well as outside of Michigan in Worcester, St. Petersburg and near Las Vegas. They are not just a Michigan thing, of course, but no one does more of them.

A coney dog is a distinctive subset of chili dogs. One important distinction: Coney sauce has NO BEANS. We enjoyed a lot of coneys as we did the book, but the real coney story is about the great people, many of them Greek and Albanian, whose families turned this food into a phenomenon in Detroit and Michigan.
Joe Grimm

Welcome Coney Detroit!
We look forward to your discussions on here. If you have time, suggest you read as many threads under the "Hot Dogs, Sausages and Bratwurst" Forum as you can to familiarize yourself with some of the discussions on here that have involved Hot Dogs in all it's various forms from all regions of the Country.
#33
John Fox
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/07 06:00:44 (permalink)
Coney Detroit,
 
As for the actual franks that are used in the Detroit area, what do you prefer out of Koegels, Winter Sausage, and Dearborn Sausage?
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Russ Jackson
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/10 08:29:43 (permalink)
ConeyDetroit

I have eaten a lot of coneys and visited well more than a hundred coney island restaurants in the Detroit area for the book Coney Detroit, coming out of Wayne State University Press in April.

Detroit and Michigan are the epicenter of the coney nation with hundreds of coney islands and lots of different ways of making them, as well as variations such as the coney taco, the coney pizza and the omelet. (I am not making this up.)

These are the essentials of a coney island:

A meat sauce (Detroit style) or topping (Flint style) on a hot dog (traditionally with a natural casing) in a bun (should be steamed) topped with minced white onion and yellow mustard.

Some will argue about whether the onion should be minced or chopped, machine cut or hand cut, and I have seen it all. A few places will put the mustard and onions on before the coney sauce. There is lots of regional pride and competition over Flint-style vs. Detroit-style coneys, but both are coneys. (We get into all that and even visited the sauce, hot dog and bun factories.)

For Coney Detroit, we had a dozen photographers shoot in Detroit, Flint, Jackson, Port Huron, Battle Creek, Traverse City, Ypsilanti, as well as outside of Michigan in Worcester, St. Petersburg and near Las Vegas. They are not just a Michigan thing, of course, but no one does more of them.

A coney dog is a distinctive subset of chili dogs. One important distinction: Coney sauce has NO BEANS. We enjoyed a lot of coneys as we did the book, but the real coney story is about the great people, many of them Greek and Albanian, whose families turned this food into a phenomenon in Detroit and Michigan.

Joe Grimm


 
Welcome Coney Detroit,
 
I hope this is not your one and only post. If it is I guess we will consider it a Detroit drive by. Being from Detroit myself I have not found a more passionate group when it comes to the Hot Dog. Defending them as the first and best Coney in the country. I agree and have found a true Detroit Coney to be in a league of its own. Most other concoctions around the country revolve around an inferior hot dog with a masking sauce. Detroit uses only top quality for the entire process. A boiled Dog would never fly in Detroit. Would love to hear more incite about the up coming book and what your favorites were.  Plus yours or any recipes you picked up along the way? And maybe a nice picture of a Coney for those of us no longer there....Russ 
#35
buffetbuster
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/10 09:06:50 (permalink)
ConeyDetroit-
Welcome to Roadfood and thanks for the excellent reply.  This sounds like a book I will be interested in buying when it comes out. 
#36
John Fox
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/10 09:22:10 (permalink)
I too will be buying this book. Speaking of books, I got an e-mail from Bruce Craig who already has a book out called Hot Dog: A Global History. His new book will be coming out in June or July of this year. It will be called Man Bites Dog. It will be about the regional styles of hot dogs and hot dog culture in America.
 
I met with Bruce and a photographer over the summer and took him on a Tour of a bunch of Jersey places that will be included in the book. Of course there will be a section on Detroit Coneys. Bruce travelled the country for over a year doing research for this book. I'll let you know when it becomes available.
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Foodbme
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/10 10:48:22 (permalink)
Coney Detroit,
Is "Coney Detroit" the title of your book?
Will it be available on Amazon.com?
#38
TnGuy
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/01/10 13:36:58 (permalink)
Foodbme

Coney Detroit,
Is "Coney Detroit" the title of your book?
Will it be available on Amazon.com?

 
http://www.amazon.com/Coney-Detroit-Painted-Turtle-Katherine/dp/0814335187/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326220240&sr=1-1
 
 
 
David
#39
Fenway
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/03/25 12:12:18 (permalink)
I grew up just outside of Fall River, Mass., and if it is the place i am thinking of, the dog you are showing is baked beans and not chili. But it is delicious just the same!
#40
pitaaaaaaaaa
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2012/04/02 21:37:20 (permalink)
Wow, that's a beast! I can only find plates like that at the fairs, maybe even outside farmers' market.
 
Thanks for sharing that ahh-mazing macro-filled photo !
#41
Jamerican28
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2013/09/19 11:10:08 (permalink)
mikejames533

What is the difference between a chili dog and a coney dog?

Real coneys use ground beef heart and beef suet as the base for their coney sauce.  They also have several spices added to it before it is simmered in a large pot.  They are topped with mustard and onion.  These types of coneys were founded in Jackson, Michigan back in the late 30's early 40's and most food historians credit this as the birthplace of coneys in America although Detroit, New York, and other places dispute that laying claim to their birth in America.  Once you've had a Jaxon style coney dog like this you'll know the distinct difference between a coney and a chili dog. 
 
Detroit style and most New York coneys are a runnier base.  They are similiar to a chili dog except they have spices added to their sauce.  They also are topped with onion and mustard.  The texture is runny and the taste is different as not much ground meat is used.  The flavor of the spices used, generally Greek, Hungarian, Macedonian, or some type of that kind of ethnic food, are often what people associate Coney Island diners with.
 
There are other places such as Flint that have a coney sauce similiar to the Jackson style but use a ground hamburger and Greek spice base for their sauce.  They also are topped with onion and mustard.  These are close to a Jackson coney in texture but have less tang with the absence of beef heart. 
 
The rest of the country west of the midwest and south of New York that I've been generally just refers to chili dogs as coneys.  Cincinatti is a perfect example.  Their sauces, though good, are not true coney sauces.  They are chili.
 
In my mind without beef heart being used in a grind you don't really have that tangy taste that I associate with a coney but the addition of Greek style spices even without the beef heart still make those types distinctly different from a regular chili dog.  In the end what you associate as a coney is largely based on what region of the country you're from.  If I can post some pictures here I will.
post edited by Jamerican28 - 2013/09/19 11:16:31
#42
Jamerican28
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2013/09/19 11:22:35 (permalink)
Jackson/Flint style coney:

 
Detroit/New York style coney:

 
Chili dog:

#43
ScreamingChicken
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/08/31 12:09:23 (permalink)
Here's a coney from J's Dairy Inn in Liberty, Indiana.  It was ordered by my traveling companion and he said the sauce had good flavor with lots of onion.
 

#44
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/08/31 14:57:39 (permalink)
  I remember first having what were labeled "Coney Islands" in the school cafeteria (7th grade, small Texas Gulf Coast town in the Houston-Galveston area, circa early 60s). The Coney Islands consisted of the dog on a bun with chili (no beans!) and a small strip of American cheese (about 1/4 of a slice). I don't remember whether there were diced onions or mustard, too. I don't recall any. Those Coneys were about the only thing I ate in the school cafeteria. Yummy. At least my memory says they were, but this was long ago.
  My own chili dog is a New England style hotdog bun, pan-grilled to a golden brown, then a third of a slice of American cheese,some finely chopped onion, an all beef hotdog (grilled or steamed), and topped off with Hormel Chili (no beans). Sometimes it is homemade chili, but for this use Hormel is fine, besides being quick and easy.
  I think, aside from regional trends, there may be as many different kinds of coneys or chili dogs as there are cooks and people with personal preferences.
#45
mar52
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/08/31 15:02:51 (permalink)
I forgot to add to this to the conversation...
 
A Coney Dog is washed down with a Vernor's.
#46
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/09/02 10:21:58 (permalink)
To me a Coney Dog is more of a Sloppy Joe on a Dog. And a Chili Dog is, well, l what it say it is.
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/09/12 15:37:33 (permalink)
I was just at Texas Lunch in Port Jervis, NY and stopped in for a snack. One thing that does it for me is the copious amount of diced onions applied over the mustard and prior to saucing. The surface area of the onions holds much of the sauce that filters through while still holding enough sauce on top. When I prepare them at home I much prefer this style and adjust my sauce thickness to achieve this result.
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/09/13 01:18:34 (permalink)
I don't have an opinion cuz I don't much about hotdogs except that I like them with relish and mustard. But I also like to be included in stuff, so I also googled "coney dog vs. chili dog" to see if I could get a good concrete answer for you, but all I got was a link to yor blog!!! You're first on the list when it comes to "coney dog vs. chili dog".
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OzdogsOfPhoenix
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/10/15 21:41:18 (permalink)
OK I might be taking my chances among this group of disinguished conesseuirs but isn't a real "Coney" gonna be a Nathans frank? That's really kind of a major distinction between that and a chili cheese with onions. And about the only one AFAIC. Mega historical basis here. And personal motive, it remains one of my fave styles. Both of them. I super LOVE Nathan's franks and I love chili cheese with chopped onions.
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Michael Hoffman
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/10/15 22:12:58 (permalink)
OzdogsOfPhoenix
OK I might be taking my chances among this group of disinguished conesseuirs but isn't a real "Coney" gonna be a Nathans frank?


Nope. It has nothing to do with New York's Coney island.
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bartl
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/10/16 13:35:08 (permalink)
OzdogsOfPhoenix
OK I might be taking my chances among this group of disinguished conesseuirs but isn't a real "Coney" gonna be a Nathans frank?



Michael Hoffman corrected me on that almost exactly 3 years ago; it's from Cincinnati's Coney Island Amusement Park, which was named after New York's Coney Island (at least according to this site). 
 
Bart
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OzdogsOfPhoenix
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Re:Chili dog vs. Coney dog ? 2014/10/17 05:05:33 (permalink)

Nope. It has nothing to do with New York's Coney island.




Verbose answers are no sin here. So much historical photographic and literary evidence points to Nathans having a definitive influence on Coney Island, similar perhaps to White Castle burgers that I'd love to hear your insights to the contrary. And I'm not clear on how Sabretts made inroads so I don't pretent to be an expert on that morphology.
 
Funny thing, the original thought I had for a food vending cart was fallafel. Not only did I really like the stuff but there were these college towns around and know how most of us start with a dream? My dream was selling fallafel pitas and then I found out that baked products are so totally unsuited for steam trays and I put that dream to sleep until my wife needed a really good excuse not to get a job.
 
Anyways, the whole world looks to New York not only as the world's financial center but one of the ideological bastions of hotdogology so I would beg you to inform us in infinite detail,
 
what the real deal is man. Lay it down, spin it out, make it real so we can actually FEEL you. Set us straight, flip us the skinny, paint the picture in our minds so we truly understand. Man. Or woman. Gender non-specific entity who posts (we hear you guys like politically correct speech there). (Please don't take that hard, I'm joshing with you.)
#53
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