So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think?

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Post
2012/10/27 17:06:26
You may be suprised by my unscientific findings over the last 11 years here...what is your opinion?
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 17:19:48
It can't be NYC...even with all the egomaniacal megolomania.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 17:21:35
Emmitsburg, Maryland?
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 17:40:25
Michael Hoffman

Emmitsburg, Maryland?

No, not snobs, Savants!

Extreme Glow
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 18:02:01
Any place in Texas.
Davwud
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 18:23:23
I would have to say Texas however I do find that denizens of the different BBQ regions seem relatively equally passionate about their particular take and deride all others. Particularly Q in non Q areas.
 
DT
Twinwillow
Sirloin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/27 19:58:04
As a Texan, I will have to say amongst ourselves, we are very opinionated about our favorite BBQ.
I've seen some of my fellow Texas almost come to fisticuffs arguing about their favorite BBQ joints, the type of wood used, sauce or, no sauce, the rub used and, the general ambiance of the joint.
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 01:21:18
Extreme Glow

Any place in Texas.

True.
Foodbme
Porterhouse
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 01:55:28
In general, Kansas City has the most overrated BBQ and Sauces in America!
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 11:33:39
Foodbme

In general, Kansas City has the most overrated BBQ and Sauces in America!

And one of the two cities I'm talking about. The other is not in Texas, I've found Texans very friendly and complimentary, but the I'm from Kansas City and I know BBQ group, are some serious PITA.
And the other city is???

Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 12:30:17
I would never refer to anyone from Emmittsburg as an idiot.
 
That said, I am really looking forward to trying some of the barbeque available in that Maryland location. One of these days ...
RKB
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 13:31:10
Memphis.
wheregreggeats.com
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 13:41:30
Chicago
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 14:17:15
Chicago?!?  We may have some high handed opinions about our Pizza, Hot Dogs, and Italian Beef Sandwiches, but if Barbecue ever was a key part of our local food culture, it is no longer quite so prominent.  In recent years we've seen a renaissance of decent 'Que make its way back into our city, but nothing we would brag about or even compare to other regional Smoked Meats.  We're just happy to have a few respectable Greasehouses making a modest name for themselves on the local scene.
 
Chicago?  I don't know what Chicagoans you've been talking to, but if they think we've got anything to be snobby about in regard to Barbecue, they are woefully misinformed.  They should be happy we've got any worthwhile 'Que here at all and leave it at that.
 
And as someone who has married into the Kansas City Barbecue culture, I can tell you they do have some good grub down that way.
 
As someone who loves and embraces Barbecue in all its regional manifestations, when someone complains about a certain group of people being "snobby" about the product they put out, it makes me think, maybe, that group of people just doesn't like your product.  By labeling them as a PITA, you've effectively alienated a whole group of people who might otherwise have been good customers.
 
Thanks for saving me the trip.
 
Good job.  Good thread.
 
Buddy
Heartbreaksoup
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 15:47:02
I use Urbanspoon quite a lot - so should y'all! - and my biggest pet peeve is people who join and create an account just to trash a restaurant and are never seen again.
 
My second biggest pet peeve, however, is when people use geography as if it means something.  You see it a lot, people reviewing a pizza place and saying "I'm from Chicago, so I KNOW pizza, and this place just doesn't cut it," or some such.  You see this a LOT.
 
Since I spend a lot of time cleaning up and editing the listings for barbecue restaurants throughout the southeast, I see this kind of behavior constantly.  About 20% of the time, it's "I'm from Texas, and so I KNOW barbecue."  About 80% of the time, it's Memphians acting like their home turf makes 'em something special.  There's a lot to like about Memphis, and a thing or ten to love completely, but their snobs are, by leagues, the snobbiest.
Davwud
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 16:36:34
BuddyRoadhouse


As someone who loves and embraces Barbecue in all its regional manifestations, when someone complains about a certain group of people being "snobby" about the product they put out, it makes me think, maybe, that group of people just doesn't like your product.  By labeling them as a PITA, you've effectively alienated a whole group of people who might otherwise have been good customers.


Hey Buddy
 
You have to understand that if you're from a BBQ region you WILL NOT like the Q from another. It's a pretty odd thing but BBQ love is not transferable. Mrs. Sippi does not like Q from other regions. Having been away from Memphis for so long she's not quite as picky anymore.
 
I, on the other hand, not having grown up in a Q region love it all. So long as it's good that is.
 
DT
Davydd
Sirloin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 17:11:54
Well it is not Minneapolis despite being the headquarters for Famous Daves. Besides, much to the chagrin of wanderingjew I have yet to have found BBQ Lutefisk.
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 17:21:46
Michael Hoffman

I would never refer to anyone from Emmittsburg as an idiot.

That said, I am really looking forward to trying some of the barbeque available in that Maryland location. One of these days ...

I not and idgit.....Looking forward to a visit here with you two!

BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 18:29:12
Davwud

BuddyRoadhouse


As someone who loves and embraces Barbecue in all its regional manifestations, when someone complains about a certain group of people being "snobby" about the product they put out, it makes me think, maybe, that group of people just doesn't like your product.  By labeling them as a PITA, you've effectively alienated a whole group of people who might otherwise have been good customers.


Hey Buddy

You have to understand that if you're from a BBQ region you WILL NOT like the Q from another. It's a pretty odd thing but BBQ love is not transferable. Mrs. Sippi does not like Q from other regions. Having been away from Memphis for so long she's not quite as picky anymore.

I, on the other hand, not having grown up in a Q region love it all. So long as it's good that is.

DT
I am aware of that attitude, although I don't understand it.  How unfortunate that people can be so closed minded as to make a conscious decision to not like something just because of where it comes from, regardless of how good it may or may not be.
 
Gimme some good 'Que no matter where it comes from and I'm a happy man.  What's that?  You don't like BBQ from Region X because you are from Region Y?  Good, more for me!
 
Buddy
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/28 20:08:08
I'm with Buddy.
I like BBQ from all regions, but that wasn't the question, was it?
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 11:16:16
1bbqboy

I'm with Buddy.
I like BBQ from all regions, but that wasn't the question, was it?

No it wasn't, but I also like good Q from every region!

ALL GOOD
Hamburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 13:25:15
Hands down, Chicago has the worst BBQ snobs.
 
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 15:37:52
I'd have to go with Kansas City or Dallas.
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 15:59:41
I just like it, as long as it tastes good. It can come from anywhere.
Big_g
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 18:01:37
its all good, just somes better
3 Olives
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 18:18:36
Davydd

Well it is not Minneapolis despite being the headquarters for Famous Daves. Besides, much to the chagrin of wanderingjew I have yet to have found BBQ Lutefisk.

I eat better BBQ at a local Church or Volunteer fire dept. fundraiser in NC  than I do when my my brother takes me to Famous Daves.

saps
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 19:26:10
ALL GOOD

Hands down, Chicago has the worst BBQ snobs.



And you know this because (hurry, make something up)...
Mosca
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 19:43:57
Snob to me has nothing to do with the quality of the Q; it has everything to do with, "Ours is real Q and yours is not." (My gal is red hot....)

So, either Texas or North Carolina.
Twinwillow
Sirloin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/29 23:28:06
Mosca

Snob to me has nothing to do with the quality of the Q; it has everything to do with, "Ours is real Q and yours is not." (My gal is red hot....) And yours is Q-ute and, sauced.

So, either Texas or North Carolina.


post edited by Twinwillow - 2012/10/29 23:30:53
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 08:37:30
Yeah, I have to go with Mosca as to the "Ours is real yours is not." How many BBQ shows have we seen on the food networks where some regional twerp with his hat on backwords starts crowing about how his towns q is the best and you don't know what you're talking about.
kaszeta
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 08:56:09
To me, there are two ways to be annoying snobbish:
 
1. Having a vastly overinflated assessment of your own area's BBQ.  I've had plenty of people tell me that their area has excellent BBQ, only to find out when sampling it that it's actually pretty dismal.  The places I get this the most is Chicago.  Sure, there are some decent places there, but pretending that Chicago is in the same class as many of the other BBQ areas?  Please. 
 
2. Relentlessly trashing other places' BBQ regardless of quality. I know a lot of Texans that are terrible like this.  Sure, the best BBQ I've ever had (indeed, probably 5 or 6 of my top 10 places) was in Texas... but that doesn't mean that some of the BBQ I've had in Memphis, Kansas City, North Carolina, or even (gasp!) Maryland are bad.  And while I share a love of brisket, it doesn't *need* to be brisket to be good BBQ.
 
All this said, living up here in the Northeast (where the phrase "New England BBQ" should generally invoke skepticism if not outright fear), I mostly just get sad since people here don't even really seem to have much of a concept of what "BBQ" is (around here, BBQ usually means meat with BBQ sauce).
Hepcat
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 09:58:05
Davwud

I would have to say Texas however I do find that denizens of the different BBQ regions seem relatively equally passionate about their particular take and deride all others. Particularly Q in non Q areas.


Heartbreaksoup Since I spend a lot of time cleaning up and editing the listings for barbecue restaurants throughout the southeast, I see this kind of behavior constantly. About 20% of the time, it's "I'm from Texas, and so I KNOW barbecue."


That's why I thought it might be in Texas but Chewingthefat says it ain't so.
 
DavwudI, on the other hand, not having grown up in a Q region love it all. So long as it's good that is.

 
My feelings too.
 

post edited by Hepcat - 2012/10/30 12:04:49
Hepcat
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 10:03:36
kaszeta...I mostly just get sad since people here don't even really seem to have much of a concept of what "BBQ" is (around here, BBQ usually means meat with BBQ sauce).

To me the concept of BBQ revolves around meat being smoked for long hours to tenderize said meat.
 

post edited by Hepcat - 2012/10/30 12:05:15
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 10:33:20
I would much rather be sitting around eating it than standing around arguing about it. That said, we got folks down here that will argue about which BBQ joint is best and why. I've eaten at most of them in the region and with a few exceptions like them all. I also like them in Georgia, Virginia, Soth Carolina etc.
Route 11
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 13:14:33
Oh my God, I like it all. I've had BBQ across the nation. The east versus west North Carolina sauce argument is enough to make you want to put your head through a wall, especially as a Virginian. I don't care, I just want some BBQ!
kaszeta
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 15:20:20
Hepcat

kaszeta...I mostly just get sad since people here don't even really seem to have much of a concept of what "BBQ" is (around here, BBQ usually means meat with BBQ sauce).

To me the concept of BBQ revolves around meat being smoked for long hours to tenderize said meat.



I should be clear when I said "here", I meant geographically.  What passes for BBQ around northern New England is generally pretty dismal.
 
One of the joys of my frequent business traveling is that I occasionally get some decent BBQ.  :)
Hepcat
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 16:42:50
No problem. I understood you meant New England. When people here in southern Ontario say BBQ, they mean nothing more elaborate than hamburgers and hot dogs on a charcoal grill.
 
There has, however, been an absolute explosion in ribfests - generally sponsored by the Rotary Club - in which BBQ rigs compete against each other and sell their wares to all comers, albeit at higher prices these days than you typically find in restaurants.
 

post edited by Hepcat - 2012/10/31 00:25:49
Twinwillow
Sirloin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 18:07:38
With all due respect, ribs have to be the easiest food item to BBQ or smoke. Now take a big brisket or bone-in pork shoulder, and you've got a whole different story.
kaszeta
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 20:58:07
Twinwillow
With all due respect, ribs have to be the easiest food item to BBQ or smoke. Now take a big brisket or bone-in pork shoulder, and you've got a whole different story.

Yeah, I've had a lot of dubious brisket.  I actually avoided it for a few years until I started going back to TX to get some.
Tony Bad
Fire Safety Admin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/30 22:06:11
Did anyone guess Pittston, PA yet?
 
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 08:58:29
Tony Bad

Did anyone guess Pittston, PA yet?
I hear the Old Forge-style barbecue there is delicious.
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 09:32:32
I like all varieties, beef, pork, and I've even had mutton. Done right, it's all good. I may be going out on a limb here by making this generalization but in my not so humble opinion I find that some of the most dismal bbq is sold at franchised chains. Famous Dave's comes immediatly to mind. When a wait staff has to squirt out the various flavors of sauce before you even get to order tells me something.
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 17:10:09
Tony Bad

Did anyone guess Pittston, PA yet?


LOL!
Joe, where are you??
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 17:21:31
Well this thread had longer legs than I expected...
The second most snobs IMHO, are from St. Louis, this as I mentioned is simply my lone observation based on talking to tens of thousands of customers over the yrars. When someon comes in and announces the are not cutsomers, they are Judges, because of where they live, I've got to roll my eyes, because it's such bs. The people are usually quite nice and generally I get strong kudos, but I don't get the need to announce in advance, since I'm from, fill in the blank, so I know BBQ!!!
Just a simple observation.
 
Tony Bad
Fire Safety Admin
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 18:32:56
chewingthefat

Tony Bad

Did anyone guess Pittston, PA yet?


LOL!
Joe, where are you??

 
He is probably on his way here to break my kneecaps.
Hepcat
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 18:54:05
chewingthefat The second most snobs IMHO, are from St. Louis, this as I mentioned is simply my lone observation based on talking to tens of thousands of customers over the yrars. When someon comes in and announces the are not cutsomers, they are Judges, because of where they live, I've got to roll my eyes, because it's such bs.... but I don't get the need to announce in advance, since I'm from, fill in the blank, so I know BBQ!!!

 
Hmmmmmm, and St. Louis and Kansas City are separated only by the width of the state of Missouri. Must be the water I guess.
 
 

 
 

post edited by Hepcat - 2012/10/31 19:07:32
1bbqboy
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 20:28:13
StL and KC hate each other.  Separated by 100 years and 250 miles, might as well be 1000. 
Don't know how Toronto feels about Montreal, but think Philadelphia and Pittsburgh or San Francisco and Los Angeles.
Hepcat
Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 20:58:58
Both Montreal and Hamilton hate Toronto.
 

 
 
 
joerogo
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/10/31 21:02:12
Tony Bad

chewingthefat

Tony Bad

Did anyone guess Pittston, PA yet?


LOL!
Joe, where are you??


He is probably on his way here to break my kneecaps.

 
Go ahead and laugh.  Someday the whole world will be eating Pittston Red Sauce BBQ AND Old Forge Red Sauce BBQ Pizza.
FriedClamFanatic
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 01:15:27
Of Course, NONE of you have ever had "True BBQ", which you can only get on Cuttyhunk Island! And only one alternate Thursdays.  On that island, Joe Chewingthefat Hoffman swims over to the next island (Nashawena or some damn place) and tracks down a live hawg that he forces to swim back to Cuttyhunk, before smoking,  The salt water the hawg absorbs during the swim gives the meat its extra piquancy. Joe etc roasts the hawg over three charcoal briquettes ( replenished) for 5 days while bathing it in seaweed and leftover lobster shells.  Toward the end of the "Q", he breaks 17......never 16..........never 18...hard shelled quahogs over the meat to give it that soft but salty tang with the perfect ring of smokiness. Some Say that the "dew" scraped from a recently caught mermaid adds to the flavour, but i find it elusive....both to catch and to savor these days. Served up with a side of lobster salad, Johnny cakes, Boston Baked Beans (made with smuggled molasses, of course), and some coleslaw, there is not a meal in the USA that can top it!  (unless you have a deep fryer, some lovely soft shell clams, some decent breading and some panache)
 
Linguica sausage on the side is optional.
 
And................Happy Halloween to you all!
BuddyRoadhouse
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 02:16:04
About time someone wrote something that made sense on this thread!
 
Buddy
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 09:28:28
Myron Mixon said it best on Pitmasters when discussing "judges" "They ain't judges, they're eaters."
Mosca
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 11:43:51
LOL on "Pittston barbecue". Joe will back me up on this: traditional NEPA barbecue is shredded lunch meat (ham, turkey or pork roll) heated in a steam tray and served on a bun with relish. I kid you not.
Mosca
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 11:46:03
And when I was growing up, barbecue was chipped chopped ham doused in ketchup and heated in a saucepan. So there. Bad barbecue? I know what that is, yes.
joerogo
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 15:14:49
Mosca
LOL on "Pittston barbecue". Joe will back me up on this: traditional NEPA barbecue is shredded lunch meat (ham, turkey or pork roll) heated in a steam tray and served on a bun with relish. I kid you not.

 
Served on a soggy bun....
Michael Hoffman
Double-chop Porterhouse
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 16:07:00
It's possible that Gahanna, Ohio has the worst. After all, we have City Barbeque and Hoggy's right here in (Big Walnut) Creek City, and it just doesn't get any better than at those two giants of Q. Not only that, but there's a White Castle a little way outside of town where they serve fantastic barbeque on little buns. Plus, Kroger has tubs of Lloyd's barbeque, and cryovac packaged Montgomery Inn ribs.
 
With all of that going for us it's hard not to be snobs.
 
I forgot to mention canned Vivetti barbeque -- beef and pork.
post edited by Michael Hoffman - 2012/11/01 16:08:30
jbburn
Junior Burger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 16:59:06
I woulkd say when it comes to snobs I would vote CHicago. By snobs I don't mean mavens or aficianados I mean those who think they know what real BBQ is more than someone else. I have always maintained that many people ( not all by any strectch ) think the most important thing is the aquarium smoker or the neighborhood , or who owns the place. I think for many if an African American lady with extensions in her hair served ribs behind a bulletproof glass window ,they could be Chili's baby backs and there would be raving fans.Just my opinion.
Extreme Glow
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/01 22:06:30
chewingthefat

Well this thread had longer legs than I expected...
The second most snobs IMHO, are from St. Louis, this as I mentioned is simply my lone observation based on talking to tens of thousands of customers over the yrars. When someon comes in and announces the are not cutsomers, they are Judges, because of where they live, I've got to roll my eyes, because it's such bs. The people are usually quite nice and generally I get strong kudos, but I don't get the need to announce in advance, since I'm from, fill in the blank, so I know BBQ!!!
Just a simple observation.


If any St. Louisans said that, they would have to be referring to their own cooking abilities and not to local restaurants. Until the last few years, the BBQ restaurant scene in St. Louis was abysmal.  For years, the places pointed to as being the "best" served any and all meats swimming in super-sweet sauce.  My first experience (many years ago) with St. Louis BBQ was ordering some chicken at a famous (still open) place; the guy behind the counter grabbed some long tongs, dipped them into a huge vat of steaming sauce, and pulled out a half chicken.  Two pieces of white bread came along to make it a chicken sandwich.  I'm sure the expression on my face was one of shock.  It was pretty disgusting.  If anyone asked me for a BBQ recommendation, I would direct them to Memphis or Kansas City.
 
Fortunately, that has changed with the likes of The Shaved Duck, Pappy's, Bogart's, and other places.
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/02 07:37:18
chewingthefat

Michael Hoffman

Emmitsburg, Maryland?

No, not snobs, Savants!


Speaking of genius -- how goes the sales of the pork BBQ "burger"? 
 
My mouth still waters at the thought of adding crispy goodness to my favorite 'cue.
kaszeta
Double Cheeseburger
Re:So what city turns out the worst BBQ snobs, do you think? 2012/11/02 10:44:40
Extreme Glow
If any St. Louisans said that, they would have to be referring to their own cooking abilities and not to local restaurants. Until the last few years, the BBQ restaurant scene in St. Louis was abysmal. 

 
While I haven't been there since 2007, Smoki O's has done pretty well by me several times, although they do seem to rather heavily apply sauce to what were otherwise decent smoked ribs and pig snoots.
 
http://offbeateats.org/20./07/smoki-o-st-louis-mo/
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