Philly Cheesesteak

So I was in Philly a couple of weeks ago and went after one of these famous cheesesteaks. I was with my daughter who lives in DC and loves Philly and knows the town a little.

So we went to this corner with Pats and Genos and went to Genos. I'm standing in the street in line with some obviously neighborhood guys talking college basketball betting, just like in Armour Square but instead of talking Illinois, Notre Dame and Wisconsin they're talking Syracuse and Holy Cross. I asked them what I should get on my sandwich and this guy with a gold Italian horn and a green, white and red T-shirt tells me to get cheese-whiz. Cheese-Whiz!?! I don't know from Philly but in Chicago no Italian neighborhood guy is gonna tell you to put cheese-whiz on anything.

So I resisted this Italian Stallion's advice and got mine with provolone. The result was a very bland sandwich. The bread was soft and chewy instead of snappy, like Italian bread that been kept in a plastic bag. The meat was bland and overall this was a colorless, blah sandwich.

I tried my daughter's sandwich with wiz and fried onions and it was much tastier, evidently the stuff is needed to give the sandwich some flavor. Not a bad sandwich just a boring one.

The fries were the worst fries I'd ever had, terrible frozen things with no meat or taste to them. And expensive no less.

When I got back to Chicago the first thing I did was to stop at Al's on Taylor Street for a combo and some real fries, you know, actual fresh potatos cut on the spot and fried. How novel.

But I liked Philadelphia anyway, seems a great town.

Sorry your cheesesteak experience didn't live up to your expectations. Hope you'll give our beloved sandwich another try sometime.

Two things you did wrong:

1) You shoulda gonta Pat's.

2) CheezeWhiz is de ONLY cheese dat goes wit des tings.

Go and sin no more...

I agree. Big mistake. You should have gone to Pat's. And Pat's only uses Cheese Whiz.

Peppertree, I'm a Pat's man, and my order is always Provywitextra.

I have to agree with westside and peppertree. I always get mine with provalone. Same thing with a sub or grinder or hero sandwich. Good provo has a lot more flavor than Cheese Wiz. My son prefers american cheese, but he's young; he'll learn....

That guy is always in line at Geno's, he gets obnoxios late on the weekends after he gets out of the clubs.
I get mine with provolone and whiz and prefer Rick's in the Reading Terminal Market to Pat's or Geno's. Rick is Pat's grandson or greatgrandson but somebody somewhere taught him how to keep his place clean. He should let the rellies running Pat's in on the secret.

My chief takeaway from the original post is that if you don't do it the way they do in Chicago, it isn't "correct."

Are you sure you're not a New Yorker?

Think of it this way: Some Easterners consider Chicago-style pizza second rate, although many, many people would disagree (including me). Same with cheesesteaks. To each his own.

PS: IMHO, you should have avoided Geno's altogether.

Along a similar line of thought, I recently had my very first Italian Beef sandwich during a business trip in Chicago, at Luke's near the Sear's Tower. I honestly didn't think it was a great sandwich....but nonetheless I am committed to going up there again and getting one from Mr Beef or one of the other great Italian beef vendors in the city.

One experience is not a good basis for an overall conclusion on a food item, imho....

(Ill add that the Chicago style dogs and the stuffed pizza I also had during the trip were OUTSTANDING)

I recently heard about a month ago on Arthur Schwartz's radio show on 710 WOR in NYC that there is a Cheese Steak stand on 34th and I think on either 2nd or 3rd avenue in Manhaatan that serves Cheese Steak sandwiches. I forgot the name.

quote:

Originally posted by JDSpiedies

I recently heard about a month ago on Arthur Schwartz's radio show on 710 WOR in NYC that there is a Cheese Steak stand on 34th and I think on either 2nd or 3rd avenue in Manhaatan that serves Cheese Steak sandwiches. I forgot the name.

That would be Carl's. There's also BB sandwich stand in the village.

CheeseWit's the expert, but IMHO, forget both Geno's AND Pat's and head for Jim's @ 4th & South. Even my NY friend loved Jim's! Better yet, join us for the Cheesesteak Tour on July 31 and give us another chance, tasting not only Pat's & Geno's (I kinda think we HAFTA do those, for comparison's sake), but 3 or 4 others that are delicious and lesser-known (if only because they weren't in the movies). Ya wanna CHEESEsteak?!?! WE'LL show ya some CHEESEsteaks!!!!

bb sandwich? wuzzat? baked beans? bovine on bun?

Philly Connection: I just heard a report about decent cheesesteaks at a chain called Philly Connection. There is one here in town. Has anyone had an experience with them?

http://www.phillyconnection.com/

Interesting website. Looks like a decent sandwich. I'm sure they can't duplicate the great rolls found in the 100 mile radius of Philly, but they seem to be on to something based on the number of locations. I would try them.

I am a New Jersey native now in Georgia who gets to Philly at least once a year for a few days. I am truly a fan of Philadelphia and cheese steak sandwiches but....

I am continually amazed at the number of folks who rave about the twin towers of Pat's and Geno's. I realize that they lay claim to virtually inventing this species of sandwich, and while I value the tradition of these well lit establishments, I still think that they should win customers by producing a top steak rather than by simply being the Philly landmarks mentioned in all the guide books. In my opinion, Pat's (and Geno's) serve a clearly inferior sandwich to many lesser known places. Far superior steaks are served at many Philly area locations including Larry's near St Joe's, D'allesandro's, Leo's in Folcroft, and even a joint called Carmine's Parkside out in Eagle, PA.

What's wrong with Pat's ( and Geno's)?? Among other things:
1. Arrogance and laziness -- these guys don't work hard -- they don't chop up the meat because it is easier not to
2. Assembly line precooked meat -- no made to order here -- this is fast food
3. Onions, peppers, cheese, other ingredients are cooked separately (and also in advance). As a result there is none of the blending of flavors and spices in the cooking process so critical to a top quality "custom" steak.
4. There is inadequate meat for the size of the roll. The all-important meat-to-bread ratio is wrong!
5. If you don't go the, ugh, cheez wiz route, they don't even bother to melt the cheese slices

If these guys didn't have history and location on their side, they would simply not merit a second look with the many other truly great steak options in the Philadelphia area. I hate to admit that I actually prefer a steak from the Philly Connection chain in Georgia over those served at Pat's and Geno's.

Maybe success spoils. There are so many good steak (and hoagie) places around, there's no need for the Pat's/Geno's nonsense. IMHO, Jim, in Reading Terminal Market, is just as good, and it's airconditioned, and there aren't the silly lines, and the rest of the market is an experience. The rest of the city and the suburbs also have some great places, that cut their own meat, and do the onions with the meat, and have the provolone that will bite you back.

Thanks to Ted52 for calling the kettle black.

I lived in Philly 25 years ago and felt the same way about Pat's. Ted hits every reason why their cheesesteaks are inferior. I can only suspect that the same applies to Geno's as I've never been there.

When I lived there, I was a Mama's devotee. Whenever I'm back in town, that's where I head. Their cheesesteak may not please the purist but it is unique and delicious.

Pat's in S. Philly is probably the most overrated sandwich shop in the city. Dallessandro's in Roxborough -- on Henry Avenue -- has the best cheesesteaks around.

quote:

Originally posted by peppertree

Philly Connection: I just heard a report about decent cheesesteaks at a chain called Philly Connection. There is one here in town. Has anyone had an experience with them?

http://www.phillyconnection.com/

They opened one here in Voorhees recently. We went on a coupon & the only thing good were the fries. They were very good. But the rest? FEH!! The cheesesteaks were awful. Not worth the extra Weight Watcher points AT ALL. The manager was very nice though.

The next time I'm in Philly I will definately check out Jims on south & 4th. The last time I was there I tried to go but the line was literally out the door and once you got inside they had this zig zag railing like a wait to get on a roller coaster ride. The only thing missing was a sign that says 30 min wait from this point. LOL... OK maybe not funny. Anyway, I ended up going to a pizza joint in the cut under Fat Tuesdays. I beleive the name of it was LaPizzaria. The Cheesesteak was pretty good. The slices aren't bad either. Bought a slice for the walk back to the Holiday Inn on 4th and Arch where me and my lady stayed for the weekend.

Jims is the place. Definately the best cheesesteaks in Philly.

jims is the best choice beef huge with fresh onions and peppers great italian roll.

Made the trek from DC to Philly last weekend and checked out Geno's and Pat's at 1 a.m. Of the two, boyfriend and I both preferred Pats, but to be honest, we were a bit disappointed in both. Even at 1 a.m. The cheesesteaks I've had a couple times at a certain liquor store in Florida blew Geno's and Pat's (and Jim's, for that matter) WAY out of the water.

Then again, I did get provalone. Without. Maybe next time I'll have to try the "Whiz wit".

ask a hundred Philadephians and it would appear you'll get a hundred opinions

well, maybe 80 :-)

Some people might object to the longish lines and the lack of fries at Jims *shrug* but then again there are plusses and minuses to every place I have seen reviewed.

My short list, having never eaten one but read a lot about them, and in no particular order
Dallesandros
Johns Roast Pork
Steves

Jack, Marky, mt, TJ: Hope you read our results from The Cheesesteak Tour recently completed. The winning cheesesteak was Dallessandro's. Read all about it in The Cheesesteak Tour thread.

Yeah, and you didn't go to John's Roast Pork :-)

quote:

Originally posted by TJ Jackson

Yeah, and you didn't go to John's Roast Pork :-)

Time didn't allow. I wanted to give everyone a taste of 5 shops. John's is great-I agree. There are so many other places including the suburbs. We're doing another one in the fall.

MT, where is that liquor store in Florida. Sounds like I'll have to make a visit.

My only experience to "genuine?" Philly Cheesesteaks was at the 30th St. train station in Philadelphia. I don't remember the name of the place but my overall recollection was that it was pretty good. Therefore, I have no preconceived expectations of this sandwich. A new franchisee has recently come to St. Louis called "Penn Station East Coast Subs." I saw a brief mention of them in another thread. Their web site is:

http://www.penn-station.com/menu.php

Their menu is varied enough that I should have tried many items but I can't seem to get beyond the cheesesteak and the occasional Reuben. Their fresh cut fries (slathered in malt vinegar) are some of the best taters I've ever eaten. I have no connection to this place other than an apparent devotion (they no longer have to ask for my name when I order.) The only drawback I can think of is the bread which is utile but nothing else worth mentioning. They are located mostly in the midwest and southeast.

I just had a look at the "Best of Philly" edition of "Philadelphia" magazine. The, um, expected news is that Pat's and Geno's got "2" out of "5" along with some, um, not real good comments. If I remember correctly, and I'm not sure I am, the best was Tony Luke's, down on Oregen Avenue. At least they were way up there. One of my favorite places, Big John's, in Cherry Hill got a "2" too, and some really nasty comments, so what do I know.

Is Big John's a different place than John's Roast Pork?

Yes, Big John's is near Cherry Hill NJ and specializes in Cheesesteaks.

We just love Philly cheesesteaks. They are the best. We only get to have one each time we visit the east which is not too often. Other restaurants in the Ohio area try to copy a cheesesteak, but no one can make a cheesesteak as good as they are in the Philadelphia area. Yum, oh I am making myself hungery for cheesesteaks. I better go to another forum.

Peppertree, the original Philly Connection shop was opened in 1984 just over three miles from my own retail store. I have eaten there many times. Philly raised friends of mine say that what they sell isn't really a good Philly Cheesesteak, and that may be. I am particularly fond of The Works - which is all that I will order now. I have tried the various other examples over the years, and The Works is the only sandwich for me at Philly Connection. I also always order a large birch beer to go with it - partly because that is my only source for a birch beer.

My first Philly Cheesesteak was eaten in early 1984 - just before the original Philly Connection opened. I was in Philadelphia. My son was having surgery at Wills Eye Hospital in downtown Philly. After his surgery, my wife and I took turns staying with him in his room. He was only three at the time. She relieved me about 10pm, and I wanted a bite to eat before I headed back to the hotel. Our hotel was at 11th and Chestnut, as I remember. The only place, beyond fancy restaurants, that was open was a little hole in the wall cheesesteak shop on Walnut, I think, in the block east of Broad. I had heard of Philly cheesesteaks, I was hungry, and where better to try one than in Philadelphia. I went in and went to the counter, where the only employee was cashier, waiter, cook, etc. and ordered a cheesesteak. He muttered something unintelligible and I responded with "Huh? What?" and he repeated himself. Then I repeated myself. After the third unintelligible question from him (I definitely could hear a question mark at the end of whatever he was saying), a customer sitting nearby tells me "He wants to know if you want ketchup on it". I said, or nodded, yes and waited a short time for what turned out to be a fantastic sandwich. Eating dinner ten hours after I have eaten lunch always makes food taste better. Just the same, I realized that I had discovered some very good food. As soon as I got back to Georgia, I saw an ad about this new place near my store called Philly Connection. I tried it and, as they say, the rest is history.

What do people think is the best Philly Cheesesteak in the Chicago area? I haven't found any yet that are as good as the ones I used to make when I worked the grill in a little resteraunt at college.

Why is it that 51% of the forum posts on Roadfood deal with cheesesteak?

Pat's is still the King of Steaks in my book, every time I'm in the area I stop by. I tried Geno's once year's back and stuck wit Pat's.

quote:

Originally posted by Extreme Glow

Why is it that 51% of the forum posts on Roadfood deal with cheesesteak?

You are greatly exaggerating. It is no more than 49%



Cakes

I never calculated the percentage of posts. I'll take some credit (or blame) for the interest in cheesesteaks. I enjoy them more than any other roadfood food. I just hosted a cheesesteak tour in Philly and plan on doing another one this fall.
If you've never had an authentic cheesesteak in the Philadelphia area, then you wouldn't know why there are so many posts. Everyone has their favorite version of the sandwich and their own personal tale to tell about trying their first one.
I go by the name "cheesewit" here on the site as it is cheesesteak related.

Cheesewit: Nobody that I know would have identified you as a Philly Cheese steak man :)

Every body on this site knows that you are the biggest promotor and you are the best.

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

My husband and I were in Atlantic City a few months ago and ate at White House sub shop as your book recommends. The steak & cheese were "out of this world"-in fact, my hubby is hooked on them and we try them everywhere we travel now-nothing is nearly as good though! That's about the only thing outstanding we found in AC.

Aw.... C'mon.... How can 51% be cheesesteaks when when 58% is barbecue?

He muttered something unintelligible and I responded with "Huh? What?" and he repeated himself. Then I repeated myself. After the third unintelligible question from him (I definitely could hear a question mark at the end of whatever he was saying), a customer sitting nearby tells me "He wants to know if you want ketchup on it". I said, or nodded, yes and waited a short time for what turned out to be a fantastic sandwich.

Milt: Therein lies the essencence of roadfood. Whether in Thailand, or Hungary, or South Philly. If someone says, or waves, or gestures about your order, they generally want to know if you want the stuff that makes it better. Go with it!! Unless you have some local knowlege about bull testicles or something like that.

You must have heard already, in South Philly, it's. "Yeah. . . cheese wit'...!" They'll hear what you said and yhou'll get the house cheesesteak.

quote:

Originally posted by Sundancer7

Cheesewit: Nobody that I know would have identified you as a Philly Cheese steak man :)

Every body on this site knows that you are the biggest promotor and you are the best.

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Paul, I may be the biggest promoter, but I don't know about being the best. Always nice to hear from you Sundancer.

quote:

Originally posted by JaneDough

CheeseWit's the expert, but IMHO, forget both Geno's AND Pat's and head for Jim's @ 4th & South. Even my NY friend loved Jim's! Better yet, join us for the Cheesesteak Tour on July 31 and give us another chance, tasting not only Pat's & Geno's (I kinda think we HAFTA do those, for comparison's sake), but 3 or 4 others that are delicious and lesser-known (if only because they weren't in the movies). Ya wanna CHEESEsteak?!?! WE'LL show ya some CHEESEsteaks!!!!

Jims is great. And Cheez Wiz is the only way to go. And my son, who was 7 at the time had a great great dialogue with the 6'8" 400 pound counter man. The entire place was cracking up.

After we had eaten, and gone out to do some shopping, my son had to go to the bathroom. So we go back into Jim's. Danny heads to the John. When he comes back, said counterman says to him- "I got your sandwiches ready- pointing to a huge pile of steak and onions on the grill. How you gonna pay for it? Danny looked at him, got it, and said "I didn't order any sandwiches- I don't know what you're talking about!" ANyway it went on for few minuites- it was very very funny.

"Milt: Therein lies the essencence of roadfood. Whether in Thailand, or Hungary, or South Philly. If someone says, or waves, or gestures about your order, they generally want to know if you want the stuff that makes it better. Go with it!! Unless you have some local knowlege about bull testicles or something like that."

good advice, unless the question has something in it that sounds like "fries".

I must admit that cheesesteaks are something new to me. I ran across them a couple of years ago at a local restaurant more famous for it's number of beer kegs than food. though the food is really darn good.

on another board I post on, we too have been discussing just what makes a good cheesesteak as I have been attempting to reproduce this at home.

ok, I can do the meat, onions and peppers. this certain restaurant serves theirs with a white cheese that I soon figured out was provolone. so my yank friends inform me that cheese wiz is the true ingredient in a philly cheese. I'm thinking, "WTF -- that stuff in a jar you couldn't get me to buy on a bet." I'll stick with the provolone, though to make an honest cheesesteak I promise to actually buy and use cheese wiz.

but still, I just can't get it right at home. so then my yank friends tell me it's all about the bread. well, that totally leaves me out, as here in the Texas panhandle, bread varieties are non-existent. however, I have found a new Sara Lee product that does pretty well.

then there's the ketchup issue. as anyone growing up on the Texas plains fully knows, you simply do not put ketchup on anything but hamburger meat. yet I see my yank friends go nuts pouring the ketchup on their philly cheese.

obviously, I still have a ways to go. sigh.

Downtown, The bread is a big part of the equation. Even here in Baltimore no one makes a sandwich that comes anywhere close to what you get in the Philly area. The largest commercial bakery in town makes a sub roll so vile that I liken it to wet cardboard, and refuse to purchase any sub that is made with this roll. I can't tell you how many places I've walked out of when they give the wrong answer to my question of whose bread do you use.

Ketchup absolutely on a steak sub.... on a hot dog, never.

hmmmmm, I'm beginning to think in order to truly experience the cheesesteak phenomenom, I am actually going to have to travel to PA and allow some hateful man I can't understand, wearing a dirty apron, serve me a mystery meat covered in cheeze wiz and kethcup on a special bread.

no wonder there are so many posts covering this one particular topic.

I've been cheesesteak deprived for years, ever since a local chain, Mr. Submarine, was driven out of business by the onslaught of Subway. I loved their cheesesteaks, the first I'd ever had, and several of their other subs and pasta dishes. I always got bell peppers on mine with the onions and beef; I guess that qualifies as a pepper steak. I never heard anything about cheese whiz nor saw it being applied to any other's sandwiches. I'm pretty sure the proprietors were from East coast somewhere, tho; their subs were very different (and much better) than any thing else I'd encountered here.

Now comes Jake's Philly Steaks (actually in business since 1991 but I just found out about them). The place is decorated with pennants of Philadelphia pro and college teams, posters of the teams, and yellowed clippings from the Enquirer and Bulletin.

The bread is supposed to be from Amoroso's. TastyKakes are listed on the online menu but not in store; the counterman told me they might have some in a couple of weeks when his brother comes down from Philly The online menu claims thinly sliced rib eye but the in store menu says its thinly sliced 'inner round.'

It's a good sandwich, served open-faced. I've had it wit and witout and I like 'em both -- I'll have trouble deciding which to order next visit. Witout there's real good beef flavor and it's real juicy; the onions have a little crispness left in 'em - a nice touch. Wit, of course, the cheese whiz overpowers the beefiness, but it's a great sandwich, too.

There are some items on the menu probably not found at Philadelphia cheesesteak emporia - fajita cheesesteaks (with chile con queso and pico de gallo) and a spicy cajun sausage sub. They have a sign for Yuengling's Black and Tan but the beer isn't actually available. After reading about some of the regional potato chips on Roadfood I was also disappointed all they serve are Lay's and Zapp's.

Authentic? I've never been to Philly so I can't say, but they're good sandwiches.

A couple of chains have popped up here -- Philly Connection and Texadelphia -- but I haven't tried either of them.

http://www.jakesphillysteaks.com/

My favorite place in Philly for cheesesteaks is Tony Lukes. Better bread, tender meat and enough of it. The Italian pork sandwich is another winner on the menu. I've yet to try a chicken steak but they look good too.

Here in Northern Virginia, they are called "steak and cheese". The best that I know of are at the Broiler on Columbia Pike in Arlington (in an area of heavy latin influence though Broiler predates it), also Big Al's in Alexandria, and Mario's which is also in Arlington.

I wonder if the name means anything? None of them offers Whiz, that I know of. All have the requisite amount of grease however.

By the way, when I lived in Philly area, the cheesesteak place in the Reading Terminal Market was quite good and handy to downtown. But I don't remember its name! Who are they and are they still there?

quote:

Originally posted by signman

MT, where is that liquor store in Florida. Sounds like I'll have to make a visit.

Oh, sorry signman, I'm just now seeing this- it's in Key Marathon at Marathon Liquors (right off the main highway on the southern tip of town, I think). If you ever make it there, let me know what you think! I get mine with provolone (or is it white American?), onions, and mayo.

does anyone recommend any good philly cheesesteak places in the Chicago suburbs? preferably the western burbs?

thanks!

I had a great cheesesteak today in Wilmington, DE at a great little place called Yatz's, on the edge of Little Italy. I wanted to get to Philly but traffic was too bad. I declined on catsup on my steak? Is catsup a "normal" condiment? Bun was absolutely superb. I also saw some chicken cheese staeaks offered around town. Anybody ever had one?

carl reitz

quote:

Originally posted by carlton pierre

I had a great cheesesteak today in Wilmington, DE at a great little place called Yatz's, on the edge of Little Italy. I wanted to get to Philly but traffic was too bad. I declined on catsup on my steak? Is catsup a "normal" condiment? Bun was absolutely superb. I also saw some chicken cheese staeaks offered around town. Anybody ever had one?

carl reitz

My daughter likes 'em, Carl. I've tasted 'em. They're not bad. I guess I'm just used to the beef ones (Philly born and raised, maybe that's why). I've never eaten a cheesesteak in Delaware. I wonder if because regionally things vary from city to city (even between Wilmington & Philly) that they're different...I wonder if anyone can attest to that.

Oh, and as far as ketchup, I'm weird so I'll put ketchup on odd things, BBQ sauce on odd things, soy sauce on odd things. So for me ketchup is really nice on a cheesesteak. But I bet if they had BBQ sauce available in those big pumps at our beloved cheesesteak places, I'd go for that too.

quote:

Originally posted by wilewil

when I lived in Philly area, the cheesesteak place in the Reading Terminal Market was quite good and handy to downtown. But I don't remember its name! Who are they and are they still there?

I honestly don't know the answer, but since Cheesewit hasn't replied, I thought I'd direct you to the[url='http://www.hollyeats.com/Philadelphia.htm']Philadephia page[/url] of the Hollyeats site. If you scroll down, there is a "Reading Terminal Market" subheader.

Is one of the places listed there the one you are trying to remember?

Hey Cheesewit! Jane Dough! Help this guy out :-)

Do Philly Cheesesteaks become less "real" the farther one gets from Philly? For instance, there's a Philly Cheesesteak place in Knox that I have not been to but I'm wondering just how authentic it can be to the rteal thing?

My favorite is Big John's in Cherry Hill. Been going there since I was a kid. We would pick up a bunch on our way to the Jersey Shore - and by the time we'd get to our shore house, they were simply PERFECT - not quite hot, not quite cold. We wouldn't even un-pack -just stand around the kitchen in the middle of the night and eat those cheesesteaks. A very unique memory - and one that has made me loyal to Big John's cheesesteaks for life!